My point is playing him on a turning wicket, with England on top - and far less pressure...Is a complete different ball game to chucking him in 1-0 down in an Ashes series on a deck that doesn't traditionally suit the spinner. It could set his career back years.
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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My point is playing him on a turning wicket, with England on top - and far less pressure...Is a complete different ball game to chucking him in 1-0 down in an Ashes series on a deck that doesn't traditionally suit the spinner. It could set his career back years.
Very poor day for England, best to hope for is to try to get the Aussies out quickly tomorrow but Smith looks ominous.
They’re separate (going by Wiki here). I was always under the impression that first class is strictly domestic but I could be wrong.
He was called up as a back up for Ali and England decided to play neither and go for 4 seamers due to the pitch.
If you look at the bottom on wiki you may notice his best figures in a test match and a first class match are identical. That's not a coincidence.
But he's not good enough to play as a sole frontline spinner against the Aussies at home. He was called up as a back up to Ali should they need to play him but England would have been better going for Liam Dawson who is playing well and can offer more control. England are trying to develop him quicker by having him in the squad.
That was my original point. The ball is spinning on day 1 and we don't have a front line spinner in the team.
Yeah clearly a misread of the pitch. They need to reconsider for the next match. Wood will be in contention then as well so it may be a case of one or two of Anderson, Broad or Robinson drop out if Tongue keeps playing well for the rest of the match.
Ponting made the point on commentary saying that Lyon has played over a 100 consecutive tests and in that time he would have played pitches that are categorically not conducive to spin, and pitches that give nothing days 1-4 and turn on day 5 etc etc. It's a great point - you have to have a diverse attack just in case.
I get that your point is he's too young / raw and the experience may cause more harm than good but I don't buy it. In the most likely scenario, he can eat up overs and give the seam bowlers some rest whilst keeping the run rate relatively low. It's a silly decision to play this test without a front line spinner.
I can't prove it as he didn't play - but I'd bet serious money if we played Rehan Ahmed he would go at the highest economy rate comfortably even if he bowled well.
Think England got their selection right tbh. The spin talent is just not there and Rehan was only brought into the squad in case the pitch was completely bare like Edgbaston. Lords has been a seamers wicket over the last few years and tbh even today the conditions were great for fast bowlers but we didn’t bowl well
So what! It's wickets we need. Joe Root, a part time spinner, has taken two already and the ball is definitely turning. If Rehan takes 4 for 100 off 20 overs or even 15 overs. Who cares that it's 5, 6 or even 7 an over. We need wickets and a much more diverse attack.
All this is true, but it's like @The Corinthian pointed out. Ricky Ponting in his commentary said that Lyon has played over 100 tests in a row. Sometimes the pitch is conducive to spin, sometimes not - but he's always in the team, just in case
We can't pick Nathan Lyon though, so this seems beside the point.
The Lyon thing annoyed me even in the commentary. Stokes also loves playing a spinner but we just didn’t have great options and lords is generally seamer friendly. Leach has also played pretty much every test in the last few years and he is not 25% the bowler Lyon is
Exactly. If we had a spinner they rated right now, he would have played.
I was addressing a specific point on economy.
What about 0-100 off of 10?
I think his point was that the Aussies always pick a spinner so they have a more diverse attack.
Lyon is one of the best off spinners in the world. He can tie up an end and allow the seamers to rotate. We don’t have anyone near that quality. Leach would have played had he been fit. But England ultimately didn’t bowl well today.
Yeah, it's a silly point because they pick Lyon because he's reliable. We don't have a reliable spinner. Back when we did we always picked Graeme Swann.
Ok.
That's possible, but probably most unlikely. The point originally made was that the ball is turning and we don't have a front line spinner. I thought we needed a more diverse attack
...and still do.
Really poor afternoon for England that, feels like a summer too far for Anderson and Broad but perhaps they'll really get going in some of the future tests, surely Mark Wood should've had a chance aswell as Tongue?
Australia certainly won't be declaring if they're on the verge of 400, will be looking for 450-500 and then really pile the pressure on England.
History against England, just 3 test wins at Lords v the Aussies since 19th century incredibly.
Australia certainly won't be declaring if they're on the verge of 400, will be looking for 450-500 and then really pile the pressure on England.
History against England, just 3 test wins at Lords v the Aussies since 19th century incredibly.
That over he bowled 3 deliveries, perfect... Seems to be a good find.
Nothing wrong with that declaration at just under 400. Getting openers in at the end of a long day in the field is a great chance to get them cheaply. Plus, what can England realistically add at 8 down with only Anderson to come?
It's not Stokes's fault that his frontline bowlers have lacked penetration. I don't think either have been as bad as is being made out but they haven't exactly set the world alight either.
They didn't seem sure he was fit.
The problem is we'll never get a decent spinner without playing them in tests to give them games. Spinners just aren't liked in English FC cricket and aren't picked. I think he's played 10 matches outside of the national team and won't get the experience in the county game like other spinners unless they're ultra safe. I suspect he'll play after this series though, will go through tough times and will have to learn on the job.
What's ironic is that he's missing a week when they're playing with the Kookaburra in county cricket when it would probably have suited him a bit more!
Good toss to lose that for Australia. Lords is normally pretty flat even if there is grass on it. Always get full value for your shots aswell. Yes the overheads were conductive to swing, but is looks like it will be similar for the first three days. So no real advantage either way.
England were inconsistent today, at times and bowled well and we're a little unlucky, but the bowled too many gimmes aswell.
England are going to have the bat extremely well first innings now to try to basically stay in the Ashes.
I'm never a fan of not picking a specialist spinner either. Should always have a specialist spinner in test matches. With the very dry start to the summer in England this year it's likely all the pitches will turn a little, some alot probably.
England were inconsistent today, at times and bowled well and we're a little unlucky, but the bowled too many gimmes aswell.
England are going to have the bat extremely well first innings now to try to basically stay in the Ashes.
I'm never a fan of not picking a specialist spinner either. Should always have a specialist spinner in test matches. With the very dry start to the summer in England this year it's likely all the pitches will turn a little, some alot probably.
How’s that baz ball going?
Can't believe we had to wait all day for this level of bantz again
Too early to suggest that this session is crucial in the series?
Weather looks fine for the rest of the test, so I can’t see a draw being on the cards. If England let Australia get up to 500+ then they’re in a huge amount of trouble.
Weather looks fine for the rest of the test, so I can’t see a draw being on the cards. If England let Australia get up to 500+ then they’re in a huge amount of trouble.
I thought the same, vital session - it's either Australia power on and put the Test beyond England or (more unlikely) England pick up a couple of early wickets, expose the tail, bowl Australia out for <400 then go to work eroding that by close of play.
Isn't it a bit daft that you can't replace an injured batsman if you've not batted yet? What difference does it actually make?
Nice early wicket... Thought it would be Umpires call on first view
Nice one broad
Good start, now into the tail could we knock them over for less than 400
A tail that has Cummins in at 9! Whatever you say about this Australia side, it genuinely is the best side in the world right now.
Yes of course they are but doesnt mean it cant happen, just hopefully they dont get another 100 on top of what they have now
Ah yeah wasn't disagreeing with your point, more just amazement at the strong tail that Aus have.