Test abandoned due to covid is England's only hope
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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Let's be honest, did any England fan ever envision a Hameed, Crawley or Leach half century? Malan is the one genuine 'loss' in those four wickets.
Anything that comes from England, will have to come from Root, Stokes, Bairstow or Buttler, as it invariably does.
Australia essentially have a new ball and rested bowlers to come at us again with. Slightly unfortunate timing, but that's test cricket.
With what we have in the top order, and with the way Australia bowled, 31-4 always on the cards. We were up against it.
With the newness of the ball and the fact Australia's bowlers will be rested we have to basically fight through that first session more or less unscathed. Not optimism, just stating the reality.
The fact is that Root and Stokes are more likely to do that than our pathetic top order.
Anything that comes from England, will have to come from Root, Stokes, Bairstow or Buttler, as it invariably does.
Australia essentially have a new ball and rested bowlers to come at us again with. Slightly unfortunate timing, but that's test cricket.
With what we have in the top order, and with the way Australia bowled, 31-4 always on the cards. We were up against it.
With the newness of the ball and the fact Australia's bowlers will be rested we have to basically fight through that first session more or less unscathed. Not optimism, just stating the reality.
The fact is that Root and Stokes are more likely to do that than our pathetic top order.
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https://www.redcafe.net/threads/england-in-india-2021.460441/page-36
Great thread this from early this year.
Crawley in the combined India-England XI. Buttler/Pant being 50-50. Doubts over Rohit.
Great thread this from early this year.
Crawley in the combined India-England XI. Buttler/Pant being 50-50. Doubts over Rohit.
Cause they have been woeful. 3 wickets done in that session is nowhere good enough to flip this test. So expectation is rather low for these in the morning session.
England relying on their ODI players to get them out of this.
Aussies are basically beating us in their own conditions and they're missing a bowler!
Could of done with one less wicket there not including the nightwatchman, that was hard for the batsman. New ball nipping around some viciously, the odd one taking off the odd one keeping a bit lower, starc and boland with the wickets but I thought Cummins was the pick of the bowlers.
Not a huge amount of hope for England but there two best players at the crease if they can get through the first hour tomorrow and build a good partnership then maybe just maybe England can set a competitive total. More likely though one or both will knick off early on and England's bedraggled batting line up will once again let everyone down.
Not a huge amount of hope for England but there two best players at the crease if they can get through the first hour tomorrow and build a good partnership then maybe just maybe England can set a competitive total. More likely though one or both will knick off early on and England's bedraggled batting line up will once again let everyone down.
Crawley is crap. And as an aside it would appear Root has put Hameed thoroughly in his shell as well somehow now. We have to try a new opener again in the next series for me. Phil Salt as an outside shout? Luke Wells? Bohannon? Not sure if he can open. Sam Hain? Same question I suppose. Rob Yates? We have to try something.
Mate seriously what is wrong with you?
Yeah they're good. Everyone raves about Cummins but Starc has everything.
Someone in here def said he could be made captain in the last day or 2
On the bright side for England they can set and equal a world record on day 3 of this test. Another 3 ducks and they'll break their own record for most ducks in a calendar year and they're nailed on to equal Bangladesh's record of 9 test losses in a calendar year.
If we send Bairstow and Buttler out in their ODI kit we might pull this off.
Innocent of everything until he’s been found guilty of something.
It’s rightly good practice to suspend somebody from a role under such allegations. Especially allegations that are corroborated by two other eye witnesses (and let’s not forget one of those is a stalwart for England, who Vaughan largely covers) and entirely fit in with other comments he’s made in the past (Mo should wander the streets and attempt to deradicalise every Muslim he sees etc…)
I mean personally I’d have punted Vaughan years ago because he’s an arsehole and generally a poor commentator/analyst, but he absolutely shouldn’t be getting air time as things stand. Just as Bumble walking was entirely the correct call.
Genuinely the closest to a moment of positivity England fans have had this series was this test potentially being off and saving a whitewash. It’s been a horror show.
Brilliant bowling by the Aussies.
England have been poor in red ball cricket for a while, this tour is emphasising the issues.
England have been poor in red ball cricket for a while, this tour is emphasising the issues.
I did laugh to myself when I saw the previous record for ducks was England in 1998. England are basically in the exact same position they were then. After that came Nasser Hussain as captain, Duncan Fletcher as coach and central contracts. All pivotal steps that setup England for the 2005 Ashes win.
Once this dreadful series is over there’s quite a lot for England to go at if they want. I’d start with reintroducing a chief selector, changing coach and managing director (Andrew Strauss needs to be involved again in some capacity if possible), working with counties to understand and develop better pitches, introduce the Kookaburra ball for half of the county season and kicking off a good old fashioned review into player development in England.
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I mean before this year they were just inconsistent, able to produce brilliance and to collapse in a heap, things did not look so bad after they beat India in the first test in Chennai in February. The challenge was to get rid of the brain fades but now it’s the only thing consistent about England. I suppose facing India twice, New Zealand and Australia in succession is bound to pull out any weakness in particularly spectacular fashion.
Whilst England need to do some proper soul searching into why they cannot produce test quality batsmen, properly quick bowlers and spinners in general, I still feel this side is playing below their potential. With a stronger captain and coach duo that make the correct decisions and instil some energy into the field, they can be a heck of a lot more competitive.
That leave by Jack Leach was jokes.
Don't even know what to suggest for England. The problem is it's far less subjective than football, I'm guessing most of these are good county performers. They're simply horrendously out of their depth. Even if they clear the lot out it's not obvious you'd get any better against a good attack. So I don't know where they go with the batting.
The bowling will probably be ok. Robinson is a find. Archer may come back at some stage. Woakes is decent in some conditions. They'll no doubt have a few seamers to turn to. Leach is not going to be good in Australia but in other conditions will be useful and they can try Virdi. It's not great but not as bad as the batting.
The bowling will probably be ok. Robinson is a find. Archer may come back at some stage. Woakes is decent in some conditions. They'll no doubt have a few seamers to turn to. Leach is not going to be good in Australia but in other conditions will be useful and they can try Virdi. It's not great but not as bad as the batting.
As a fan of test cricket, it’s disappointing to see this. A few years ago, you could argue that it was a team in transition. The problem now is that the players who were part of the transition look hopelessly out of depth despite being the best in domestic cricket and in many cases not that old.
I’ve followed test cricket for 15 years and it’s obituary is written every year, but this is the first year with a notable decline of one of the big teams combined with the continued terrible performances by the teams in the next tier. It feels like in ten years you may not have a single class team.
You never had the misfortune of watching England in the 90’s then. Between 1989-2005, England and Australia played 43 tests, England won 7, Australia won 28.
I think test cricket is fine, India, New Zealand and Australia are all pretty good with India starting to establish themselves as the class team. Pakistan don’t play enough tests but they have some quality players. South Africa and England are doing some soul searching. It feels like touring is as hard as it’s ever been with draws a rarity and teams unable to play enough cricket to acclimatise to local conditions.
England have shown that a balanced attacked can produce results as they have done in this test. Ideally you would have wanted Archer instead of Robinson and a more dangerous spinner but the main thing it was balanced so bowlers had different threats.
Unfortunately the batting is beset with problems and no obvious solutions around to fix them. It will need a back to basics review by the ECB.
Unfortunately the batting is beset with problems and no obvious solutions around to fix them. It will need a back to basics review by the ECB.
You say this but I’m far more worried about seamers than spinners, outside of Saqib I don’t see who’s the next cab in the line on that front, although admittedly before his debut I would have included Robinson in the crew where I didn’t see it, so it’s far from a death knell.
For spinners mind, as you say Leach is far better than this management has made him look, there’s Parkinson who should be the first choice for me, Virdi, there’s still potential for Mason Crane. The management seems to love Dom Bess for reasons I don’t understand.
I full agree that the batting is the big problem mind, there’s lots of folk who’ve been given a shot and failed (which obviously doesn’t mean they’re not good enough, coming in to a dysfunctional side and not performing is to be expected) but seeing how we turn it around to get to a point where we can actually bed folk in is a problem.
The overlying issue being the management is horrific, but what can we do about this? Silverwood came in with his statements about not judging him until this Ashes and he can have no complaint if we point to this Ashes and say he shouldn’t continue. Giles should obviously be looked into given Silverwood is his man and they totally ripped up the structure to give Silverwood even more control what, 6 months ago and it’s gone from bad to worse in that time. Then we have the long running Joe Root conundrum, if he isn’t captain then who is, because Stokes already has to carry too much weight in this team if anything, so adding more to that can only be counterproductive, and absolutely nobody else is nailed on a spot
We are winning this.
Yep, agree with all those action points.
Not sure about Crane. Don't think he's got it for tests. Parkinson is an interesting one. They're very risk averse with wrist spin. I think his slow loopy brand of legspin would have been a big risk in Australia but they should introduce him sooner rather than later in a more favourable series.
Until we can put totals on the board, even 300 at this stage we'd bite an arm off for..it's going to be difficult for any spinner or bowler.
I didn’t and I am not sure if things are comparable. There is a new kid in town in t20s which is going to make it very hard for administrators to keep running test matches at a net loss.
Sort of know what you’re saying. Had the same thought when I saw the scorecard. Stokes and Root are your best batters and I think in a one off match like this, getting a lead of 200 will do funny things to this game.
Test and T20’s can coexist. I have seen no evidence in England that people are not going to watch tests anymore. The biggest issue in recent times has been Covid.
Test matches are a big (relatively) money maker, and are keeping the red ball game alive. Red ball County cricket is a massive net loss, there's generally like 5 specators in the crowd and minimal television coverage. I hate to say it, but I'm coming around to the idea of replacing the Championship with 6-8 regional sides, with condensed quality and a potentially broadcastable product.
Your system of no one facing professional consequences for their actions unless found guilty of criminality would have some flaws if implemented I think.
I fear any attempt at making domestic first class cricket watchable is doomed, frankly. Gutting first class cricket in England and Wales may be necessary for loss cutting but I don't think raising the standard a bit would increase interest to any game-changing degree.
I was tongue in cheek but you're right it's not dead yet.
However I fully expect one of the big two to go early and we will subside to a defeat by mid afternoon.
Quite possibly, the only thing I can see potentially working would be linking 4 day franchise teams to the Hundred Teams, so it has a kind of established fan base. Not sure it'd do much for attendances, but could probably sell a highlights package for it together with the 100.
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Yeah. But I cannot imagine that changing the County Championship into the Sheffield Shield would go down well and I’m not entirely sure it would change much. Sure the quality increases but then we would also need to improve 2nd XI cricket (Australian Grade cricket is also very strong) to ensure those who cannot play can still develop. And even then, does it really fundamentally change how we identify and nurture young talent? Will batsmen be exposed to proper quick bowling and spin on decent pitches? I’m not sure. And in terms of product, I think that everyone that cares about it already engages with it and getting rid of counties will just alienate them, so it probably would end up being unattractive but does anyone really have a marketable first-class game?
I am fascinated by how Australia develop their quicks, I read a stat that no Australian bowler had played as many first-class games (79) as Scott Boland had before making their debut. Pat Cummins’ 4th first class match was his test debut and Glenn McGrath made his debut after 8 first-class matches. Even with spinners, Warne was making his debut after 7 first class matches and Lyon was playing test matches 6 months after his first class debut. I’m aware I’m talking of all time greats here and it’s easier to develop players in winning teams but it’s hard to imagine England fast-tracking anyone.
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It is fascinating for sure. My understanding is grade cricket is a very high standard (I've heard it described as being not as good as the best county matches, but better than the worst county matches), so I guess if players perform at that level they get earmarked for Test level.
My thinking was that a franchise system could provide the equivalent of the Sheffield Shield, and the Counties would carry on at the level below that and being linked to, and feeding players into, the regional franchises (so essentially becoming equivalent to grade cricket). No idea how plausible it is and I'm sure it'd get a ton of backlash and numerous hurdles would arise.
Do Ashes run at a net loss for admin? I don't think so. Problem for the test format is that for a routine cricketer, vying for T20 spots is a much better career choice since hitting it big there is going to translate into bigger bucks and more importantly the number of opportunities to make it in T20 format are 10x more than tests where only consistent international run will make your career.
200 means getting 285, more than even what Oz got. I would be shocked if England cross 120 here.
Yes - that was just me thinking with my optimism goggles on similar to how we think when India are staring down the barrel.
The most likely outcome is that tomorrow is the last day of the match