England | right wing knuckle draggers on the streets

langster said:
I'm not so sure. Reform basically replaced UKIP so I would think they got nearly all their supporters votes. I know at least 3 or 4 dozen Tory voters who voted for Reform because they knew the Tories stood no chance in our area and they flat out refused to vote for Labour or the Lib Dems. UKIP only had one decent general election in 2015 where they got 3.3 million votes that was just over 12% of the total votes tally.

Before and after that they never got more than 3.1%. Initially they were an anti-federalist party but rebranded as a referendum party that campaigned on the UK leaving Europe.. After Brexit in 2016 and Farage leaving they fell apart, fell apart so badly that at the recent GE.they managed to only get 1000 votes more than the Monster Raving Looney Party, despite fielding 4 more candidates than them. :lol:

My point being though, I think a fairly decent percentage of Reform votes were definitely Tory voters and that these racist wankers definitely do not represent 15% of the population. Or they do, but not to the extremes of EDL/NF levels..
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To your last point, I think that’s right but there cause and effect here. The Tories have moved significantly right. And the reality unfortunately is that without Farage, many of those far right voters simply saw no choice as you say but to vote Tory.

It’s hard to discern what percentage does and doesn’t accurately reflect these hard right individuals. And no doubt that percentage has increased since the likes of UKIP were around. I think the current reform vote though is a decent enough estimation to use. I’m sure there’s some ignorant protest vote in there too, but for the most part it’s full of those hard right wingers who at the very least are sympathetic to the ideals of what they stand for.

Put another way, a party that is quite clearly racist should be enough to deter anyone voting them.

In the other hand you could say a lot of those people aren’t racist they’ve just been mislead by what they’ve seen on social media etc. and are simply ignorant.

It’s all rather circular. Anyway, my point is, there are far more racist people in this country than just the few crazies who go out and riot.
 
Mystry said:
My muslim partner works in a cinema and has already had to deal with racist customers. It's literally a 5 minute walk back to our flat but I'm so paranoid that I'd rather pick her up in the car rather than risk something happening. It feels similar to just after the Brexit vote, where racists were emboldened. Others who are muslim have told me of an odd atmosphere in the gym. Going to the supermarket you feel a weird mix of sympthy from some and side eyes from others and I'm an Indian Hindu/Athiest.
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If I may ask, where in the country are you? It’s shocking that you’ve been put in that position. So sad.
 
F-Red said:
It may take a while longer to process some cases but they'll be going particularly harsh on sentencing to set an example, it'll make 2011 look like Childs play tbh.
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Here's the issue I see, there are more than 60K oustanding cases awaiting trial in Crown Courts, to try cases sooner they will need special courts and a ton of jurors, they'll need to postpone existing cases in the backlog because there's only so many judges and barristers.

My fear is that a lot of cases will get downgraded a bit so they can be done in magistrates courts, not the most serious ones, but the sort like breaking in to Greggs and O2 where it's criminal damage and theft rather than endangering people, setting fire to a hotel and the like.
 
Bojan11 said:


She’s the wife of a Tory councillor. The worst bit is that she’s a registered childminder.
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Was a registered childminder. If you work with kids in any capacity for your job you need a Disclosure and you can get kicked off that list for any slight misdemeanor, so she's proper fecked.
 
Red in STL said:
Here's the issue I see, there are more than 60K oustanding cases awaiting trial in Crown Courts, to try cases sooner they will need special courts and a ton of jurors, they'll need to postpone existing cases in the backlog because there's only so many judges and barristers.

My fear is that a lot of cases will get downgraded a bit so they can be done in magistrates courts, not the most serious ones, but the sort like breaking in to Greggs and O2 where it's criminal damage and theft rather than endangering people, setting fire to a hotel and the like.
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Chuck an ankle tag on them all and dye their hair pink. Let them continue in society and let society reject them accordingly. Next offence, chuck them on the Bibby Stockholm or in Army Barracks.
 
langster said:
I'm not so sure. Reform basically replaced UKIP so I would think they got nearly all their supporters votes. I know at least 3 or 4 dozen Tory voters who voted for Reform because they knew the Tories stood no chance in our area and they flat out refused to vote for Labour or the Lib Dems. UKIP only had one decent general election in 2015 where they got 3.3 million votes that was just over 12% of the total votes tally.

Before and after that they never got more than 3.1%. Initially they were an anti-federalist party but rebranded as a referendum party that campaigned on the UK leaving Europe.. After Brexit in 2016 and Farage leaving they fell apart, fell apart so badly that at the recent GE.they managed to only get 1000 votes more than the Monster Raving Looney Party, despite fielding 4 more candidates than them. :lol:

My point being though, I think a fairly decent percentage of Reform votes were definitely Tory voters and that these racist wankers definitely do not represent 15% of the population. Or they do, but not to the extremes of EDL/NF levels..
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I hope you are right but I would interpret the hardcore Brexit vote as “send ‘em all back” rather than any meaningful protest against the EU (why else would Farage’s “Breaking Point” poster show a queue of non-Europeans and why was the Leave vote so high in overwhelmingly white rural or suburban areas?). Maybe 14% is an exaggeration but the real number of sympathisers is much higher than the few thousand gullible thugs who are about to do time.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Chuck an ankle tag on them all and dye their hair pink. Let them continue in society and let society reject them accordingly. Next offence, chuck them on the Bibby Stockholm or in Army Barracks.
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I'd do that now TBH, let them rot on remand and tow it out in the channel, if they have to wait 2 years for their case to get called the tough shit, that's 2 years in a shithole being seasick
 
Red in STL said:
Here's the issue I see, there are more than 60K oustanding cases awaiting trial in Crown Courts, to try cases sooner they will need special courts and a ton of jurors, they'll need to postpone existing cases in the backlog because there's only so many judges and barristers.

My fear is that a lot of cases will get downgraded a bit so they can be done in magistrates courts, not the most serious ones, but the sort like breaking in to Greggs and O2 where it's criminal damage and theft rather than endangering people, setting fire to a hotel and the like.
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Well they've already had people in court yesterday and today, and a magistrates court in Manchester has put someone in prison for 2 months for damaging two police cars. There's no one disagreeing of the backlog and the high possibility of postponing existing cases but they're clear that they're putting resources into this, however since the rioters are now planning on targeting legal professionals I'm sure we'll start to see some focus on delivering justice to set an example.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Was a registered childminder. If you work with kids in any capacity for your job you need a Disclosure and you can get kicked off that list for any slight misdemeanor, so she's proper fecked.
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Who in their right mind would want that cnut minding their children.
 
Farage and tommy ten names fans going for each other on twitter. 10 mins of lols
 
GUVGfF2WYAApNsj.jpg:small
 


Saw that this morning and thought it was interesting from an identity point of view. Identity being a big part of this whole shitstorm for some. Paloma's ex and father of her children was born in France so he's French I would have thought. It wasn't him or her children speaking so who knows how they personally identify?

Reminded me of the Argentina team and their songs directed at the French. Referring to people as being of their ethnic background above nationality most commonly crops up when trying cause a division between an in group and outsiders these days. Unusual to see someone obviously against that sort of thing doing the same.

The background and colour of the Southport attacker was picked up on by those trying to cause those kind of divisions of course, dismissing his place of birth.

I don't quite know what a half Muslim is either, but that's another thing altogether.
 
Chipper said:


Saw that this morning and thought it was interesting from an identity point of view. Identity being a big part of this whole shitstorm for some. Paloma's ex and father of her children was born in France so he's French I would have thought. It wasn't him or her children speaking so who knows how they personally identify?

Reminded me of the Argentina team and their songs directed at the French. Referring to people as being of their ethnic background above nationality most commonly crops up when trying cause a division between an in group and outsiders these days. Unusual to see someone obviously against that sort of thing doing the same.

The background and colour of the Southport attacker was picked up on by those trying to cause those kind of divisions of course, dismissing his place of birth.

I don't quite know what a half Muslim is either, but that's another thing altogether.
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I read it has ‘half Muslim north African’ as an all in one description of the father. Not sure if that’s correct, or if that’s even appropriate terminology. Maybe she just worded it clumsily?
 
F-Red said:
Well they've already had people in court yesterday and today, and a magistrates court in Manchester has put someone in prison for 2 months for damaging two police cars. There's no one disagreeing of the backlog and the high possibility of postponing existing cases but they're clear that they're putting resources into this, however since the rioters are now planning on targeting legal professionals I'm sure we'll start to see some focus on delivering justice to set an example.
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A magistrates court can impose a maximum sentence of 12 months for multiple offences and 6 months for a single one, and doesn't have a backlog

Anything that's deemed more serious goes to a crown court, which requires a jury, a judge and barristers, the average jury trial lasts 10-14 days, aside from the fact you can't just drum up judges and barristers from thin air it costs a fortune.

What I fear is that some of these cnuts will face lesser charges so they can be dealt with in a magistrates court quickly and not pay the proper consequences for their actions
 
Chipper said:


Saw that this morning and thought it was interesting from an identity point of view. Identity being a big part of this whole shitstorm for some. Paloma's ex and father of her children was born in France so he's French I would have thought. It wasn't him or her children speaking so who knows how they personally identify?

Reminded me of the Argentina team and their songs directed at the French. Referring to people as being of their ethnic background above nationality most commonly crops up when trying cause a division between an in group and outsiders these days. Unusual to see someone obviously against that sort of thing doing the same.

The background and colour of the Southport attacker was picked up on by those trying to cause those kind of divisions of course, dismissing his place of birth.

I don't quite know what a half Muslim is either, but that's another thing altogether.
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It's probably someone who isn't a practicing Mulim, bit like most folks who claim they are Christian but only go to church for christenings, weddings and funerals
 
Red in STL said:
It's probably someone who isn't a practicing Mulim, bit like most folks who claim they are Christian but only go to church for christenings, weddings and funerals
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No such thing in my experience. If you are Muslim you practice your religion or you are castigated by your community.

I think @Posh Red has it right. Paloma is British, the father is a Muslim North African so the kids are half Muslim North Africans.
 
Plant0x84 said:
No such thing in my experience. If you are Muslim you practice your religion or you are castigated by your community.

I think @Posh Red has it right. Paloma is British, the father is a Muslim North African so the kids are half Muslim North Africans.
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Half North African. Islam isn't a genetic trait or determined by citizenship/place of birth.

Just semantics sitting outside of the context though.
 
I think 'facists, feck off' is probably the important part of the message.
 
Andy_Cole said:
Not just Brighton.

This is what they've posted as next list of targets.
WEDNESDAY NIGHT LADS

THEY WONT STOP COMING UNTIL YOU TELL THEM...

NO MORE IMMIGRATION

8PM

MASK UP

SPREAD THIS AS FAR AND WIDE AS YOU CAN


ALDERSHOT
- Immigration Advisors Ltd, Victoria Road, GU11 1TH

CANTERBURY
- UK Immigration Clinic, Canterbury Innovation Centre, CT2 7FG

CHATHAM
- Immigration Status UK, Maidstone Road, ME5 9FD

CHELMSFORD
- UK Immigration Information Centre, Violet Close, CM1 6XG

BEDFORD
- Immigration INN, Ford End Road, MK40 4JT

BIRMINGHAM
- Refugee and migrant centre, Frederick Street, B1 3HN

BLACKBURN
- Rafiq Immigration Services, Whalley Road, BB5 1AA

BLACKPOOL
- Immigration Solicitors, Enterprise Centre, Lytham Road, FY1 1EW

BOLTON
- Deane & Bolton Immigration lawyers, Chorley new road, BL1 4QR

BRENTFORD
- UK Immigration Help, Great West End, TW8 9HH

BRIGHTON
- Raj Rayan Immigration, Queens Road, BN1 3XF

BRISTOL
- Gya Williams Immigration, West Street, BS2 0BL

CHEADLE
- Intime Immigration Services, Brooks Drive, SK8 3TD

DERBY
- Immigration advisory Service, Normanton Road, DE23 6US
HARROW
- Yes UK Immigration, Pinner Road, HA1 4HN

HASTINGS
- Black Rock Immigration, Cambridge Gardens, TN34 1EN

HULL
- Conroy Baker Immigration Lawyer, Norwich House, Savile Street, HU1 3ES

KENT
- Kent Immigration and advice, Castle Hill Road, CT16 1QG

LINCOLN
- Immigration Lawyer Services, Carlton Mews, LN2 4FJ

LIVERPOOL
- Merseyside Refugee Centre, Overbury Street, L7 3HJ

MIDDLESBOROUGH
- Immigration advice centre, Linthorpe Road, TS1 4AT

NEWCASTLE
United Immigration Services - Westgate Road, NE4 9PQ

NORTH FINCHLEY
- Immigration and Nationality Services, Percy Road, N128BU

NORTHAMPTON
- Zenith Immigration Lawyers, Talbot Road, NN1 4JB

NOTTINGHAM
East Midlands Immigration Services - Stonesbury Vale NG2 7UR

OLDHAM
- Expert Immigration - Ellen Street 0L9 6QR

OXFORD
- Asylum Welcome, Magdelen Road, OX4 1RE

PETERBOROUGH
- Smart Immigration Services, Lincoln Road, PE1 2PN

PORTSMOUTH
- UK Border Agency, Kettering Terrace, PO2 8QN

PRESTON
- Adriana Immigration Services, Church Street PR1 3BS

ROTHERHAM
- Parker Rhodes Immigration Lawyer, The Point S60 1BP

SHEFFIELD
- White Rose Visas, Wilkinson Street, S10 2GJ

STOKE
- ZR Visas, Metcalfe Road, ST6 7AZ

SOUTHAMPTON
- Y-Axis Immigration Consultants, Grosvenor Square, SO15 2BG

SOUTHEND
- MNS Immigration Solicitors, Ditton Court Road, SS0 7HG

SUNDERLAND
- North of England Refugee Service, High Street East, SR1 2AX

TAMWORTH
- Lawrencia & Co immigration solicitors, Amber Business Village, B77 4RP

WALTHAMSTOW
- Waltham Forest Immigration Bureau, Hoe Street, E17 3AP

WIGAN
- Support for Wigan Arrivals Project, Penson Street WN1 2LP
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That Oldham one could be the catalyst for serious violence. The last oldham riots were at the end of my street when I was a kid. It's got the a massive amount of racists, mixed with a large muslim population, and obviously the history for things getting stupid.
 
Plant0x84 said:
No such thing in my experience. If you are Muslim you practice your religion or you are castigated by your community.

I think @Posh Red has it right. Paloma is British, the father is a Muslim North African so the kids are half Muslim North Africans.
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It definitely is a thing.

Chipper said:


Saw that this morning and thought it was interesting from an identity point of view. Identity being a big part of this whole shitstorm for some. Paloma's ex and father of her children was born in France so he's French I would have thought. It wasn't him or her children speaking so who knows how they personally identify?

Reminded me of the Argentina team and their songs directed at the French. Referring to people as being of their ethnic background above nationality most commonly crops up when trying cause a division between an in group and outsiders these days. Unusual to see someone obviously against that sort of thing doing the same.

The background and colour of the Southport attacker was picked up on by those trying to cause those kind of divisions of course, dismissing his place of birth.

I don't quite know what a half Muslim is either, but that's another thing altogether.
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I don't think anyone has ever claimed that ethnic minorities in western countries don't tend to have a cultural link to whatever their 'origins' are. The difference is that those on the right will use that to indicate that that person can never truly be from 'their' country or at worst, should leave entirely. Whereas most people I know try to fuse the best of their ethnic and European cultures together.

In these riots, say her ex husband was French Cameroonian. The kids would be half black. I don't think the rioters would go around saying, ah you're actually half French, not black, you're alright then. He'd be in big trouble. We all know that.

Every single ethnic person I know, especially those outside of London, is genuinely terrified right now. Particularly the darker they are and particularly if they are visibly Muslim.

A half muslim is someone who's grown up with one muslim parent in a household where the parents have either not imposed a particular religion on their kids, or raised them with the cultures, stories and festivals of both parents' religions.
 
Chipper said:


Saw that this morning and thought it was interesting from an identity point of view. Identity being a big part of this whole shitstorm for some. Paloma's ex and father of her children was born in France so he's French I would have thought. It wasn't him or her children speaking so who knows how they personally identify?

Reminded me of the Argentina team and their songs directed at the French. Referring to people as being of their ethnic background above nationality most commonly crops up when trying cause a division between an in group and outsiders these days. Unusual to see someone obviously against that sort of thing doing the same.

The background and colour of the Southport attacker was picked up on by those trying to cause those kind of divisions of course, dismissing his place of birth.

I don't quite know what a half Muslim is either, but that's another thing altogether.
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She’s obviously bigging up the Muslim element to her family as a show of solidarity to the people being targeted by these racists. Her post would fall a little flat if she described her kids as half French, no?
 
Saw this on the beeb this morning

"Yesterday London's Metropolitan Police said they were aware of "events planned by hateful and divisive groups across the capital"

Anyone have any clue where in London these events might be? Both me and my wife and heading in today for work but I'm slightly worried now. I'll be in Liverpool st and she's in great Portland street. I think we'll be ok but I'll pick her up after work and be with her just to be on the safe side.
 
Chipper said:


Saw that this morning and thought it was interesting from an identity point of view. Identity being a big part of this whole shitstorm for some. Paloma's ex and father of her children was born in France so he's French I would have thought. It wasn't him or her children speaking so who knows how they personally identify?

Reminded me of the Argentina team and their songs directed at the French. Referring to people as being of their ethnic background above nationality most commonly crops up when trying cause a division between an in group and outsiders these days. Unusual to see someone obviously against that sort of thing doing the same.

The background and colour of the Southport attacker was picked up on by those trying to cause those kind of divisions of course, dismissing his place of birth.

I don't quite know what a half Muslim is either, but that's another thing altogether.
Click to expand...


You would imagine that she would know the identity of her ex husband and children though from speaking and having a deep relationship with them. I imagine from her comments he has a deep connection to his Algerian roots and is a practicing Muslim hence the description. I also think half Muslim makes sense but is a weird way of phrasing it. If you have two parents from different religions and you've decided to co-parent in a way that will raise them in both beliefs then it is understandable.
 
Ayoba said:
Saw this on the beeb this morning

"Yesterday London's Metropolitan Police said they were aware of "events planned by hateful and divisive groups across the capital"

Anyone have any clue where in London these events might be? Both me and my wife and heading in today for work but I'm slightly worried now. I'll be in Liverpool st and she's in great Portland street. I think we'll be ok but I'll pick her up after work and be with her just to be on the safe side.
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Rumoured to be Harrow (full of South Asians) and Finchley (full of Jewish people).

Harrow in particular is 20% white British so not sure how that is really going to go.
 
This is spot on. As a country, we really only hear mention of class in some elements of the media when it comes to the far right and in response to communities that have supposedly been "left behind" due to immigration.

When Corbyn or any left winger mention class in reference to financial inequalities, the response is usually very different.
Any left wing politicians immediately becomes a champagne socialist or a threat to our economy when they propose taxing billionaires more.

According to some on the right, trade unions are set up to bring the country to a halt and they only care about themselves. EDL/Britain First have justified anger but maybe go to far on occasions.

 
No Asian or Muslim should be staying at home or hiding. Feck that, I'm brown and have a big beard, if any racist halfwit has a problem with that they can get to feck. I'll be doing my usual and walking around with my head held up high.
 
MancunianAngels said:
This is spot on. As a country, we really only hear mention of class in some elements of the media when it comes to the far right and in response to communities that have supposedly been "left behind" due to immigration.

When Corbyn or any left winger mention class in reference to financial inequalities, the response is usually very different.
Any left wing politicians immediately becomes a champagne socialist or a threat to our economy when they propose taxing billionaires more.

According to some on the right, trade unions are set up to bring the country to a halt and they only care about themselves. EDL/Britain First have justified anger but maybe go to far on occasions.

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Akala is usually bang on the money on issues such as this.
 
africanspur said:
Rumoured to be Harrow (full of South Asians) and Finchley (full of Jewish people).

Harrow in particular is 20% white British so not sure how that is really going to go.
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Plus Brentford, not far from me, though again, most of the population around the surrounding areas is non-white.
 
SilentWitness said:
You would imagine that she would know the identity of her ex husband and children though from speaking and having a deep relationship with them. I imagine from her comments he has a deep connection to his Algerian roots and is a practicing Muslim hence the description. I also think half Muslim makes sense but is a weird way of phrasing it. If you have two parents from different religions and you've decided to co-parent in a way that will raise them in both beliefs then it is understandable.
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That's kind of it but people tend to interpret it from a religious standpoint when it has more to do with culture as a whole.
 
Andy_Cole said:
Not just Brighton.

This is what they've posted as next list of targets.
WEDNESDAY NIGHT LADS

THEY WONT STOP COMING UNTIL YOU TELL THEM...

NO MORE IMMIGRATION

8PM

MASK UP

SPREAD THIS AS FAR AND WIDE AS YOU CAN


ALDERSHOT
- Immigration Advisors Ltd, Victoria Road, GU11 1TH

CANTERBURY
- UK Immigration Clinic, Canterbury Innovation Centre, CT2 7FG

CHATHAM
- Immigration Status UK, Maidstone Road, ME5 9FD

CHELMSFORD
- UK Immigration Information Centre, Violet Close, CM1 6XG

BEDFORD
- Immigration INN, Ford End Road, MK40 4JT

BIRMINGHAM
- Refugee and migrant centre, Frederick Street, B1 3HN

BLACKBURN
- Rafiq Immigration Services, Whalley Road, BB5 1AA

BLACKPOOL
- Immigration Solicitors, Enterprise Centre, Lytham Road, FY1 1EW

BOLTON
- Deane & Bolton Immigration lawyers, Chorley new road, BL1 4QR

BRENTFORD
- UK Immigration Help, Great West End, TW8 9HH

BRIGHTON
- Raj Rayan Immigration, Queens Road, BN1 3XF

BRISTOL
- Gya Williams Immigration, West Street, BS2 0BL

CHEADLE
- Intime Immigration Services, Brooks Drive, SK8 3TD

DERBY
- Immigration advisory Service, Normanton Road, DE23 6US
HARROW
- Yes UK Immigration, Pinner Road, HA1 4HN

HASTINGS
- Black Rock Immigration, Cambridge Gardens, TN34 1EN

HULL
- Conroy Baker Immigration Lawyer, Norwich House, Savile Street, HU1 3ES

KENT
- Kent Immigration and advice, Castle Hill Road, CT16 1QG

LINCOLN
- Immigration Lawyer Services, Carlton Mews, LN2 4FJ

LIVERPOOL
- Merseyside Refugee Centre, Overbury Street, L7 3HJ

MIDDLESBOROUGH
- Immigration advice centre, Linthorpe Road, TS1 4AT

NEWCASTLE
United Immigration Services - Westgate Road, NE4 9PQ

NORTH FINCHLEY
- Immigration and Nationality Services, Percy Road, N128BU

NORTHAMPTON
- Zenith Immigration Lawyers, Talbot Road, NN1 4JB

NOTTINGHAM
East Midlands Immigration Services - Stonesbury Vale NG2 7UR

OLDHAM
- Expert Immigration - Ellen Street 0L9 6QR

OXFORD
- Asylum Welcome, Magdelen Road, OX4 1RE

PETERBOROUGH
- Smart Immigration Services, Lincoln Road, PE1 2PN

PORTSMOUTH
- UK Border Agency, Kettering Terrace, PO2 8QN

PRESTON
- Adriana Immigration Services, Church Street PR1 3BS

ROTHERHAM
- Parker Rhodes Immigration Lawyer, The Point S60 1BP

SHEFFIELD
- White Rose Visas, Wilkinson Street, S10 2GJ

STOKE
- ZR Visas, Metcalfe Road, ST6 7AZ

SOUTHAMPTON
- Y-Axis Immigration Consultants, Grosvenor Square, SO15 2BG

SOUTHEND
- MNS Immigration Solicitors, Ditton Court Road, SS0 7HG

SUNDERLAND
- North of England Refugee Service, High Street East, SR1 2AX

TAMWORTH
- Lawrencia & Co immigration solicitors, Amber Business Village, B77 4RP

WALTHAMSTOW
- Waltham Forest Immigration Bureau, Hoe Street, E17 3AP

WIGAN
- Support for Wigan Arrivals Project, Penson Street WN1 2LP
Click to expand...

Surprised that Croydon isnt on that list as we have one of the largest immigration centres in the country.
Mind you you’d have to have some balls to go up against the Croydon locals. Everyone seems to think they are in a live audition for Top Boy……
 
Akala dismantling Tommy Robinson on QT is timeless and you should watch it if you haven’t already.

Everyone should take the time to listen to Akala full stop, even if you don’t agree with him you will appreciate his craft, he’s what so many charlatans on the right are desperate to be - a deep thinking intellect who is incredibly well researched, eloquent and a fantastic debater. Whereas the likes of Shapiro, Peterson and co resort to cheap debating tricks Akala is always honest with his arguments grounding them in facts or reasoned opinions.
 
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