It's the performances like against Serbia the other night that makes me think England won't be able to win it. Could even reach semis but that's about it. Well at least under Southgate. Perhaps they'll prove me wrong.
England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion
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Personally I've been on the "Kane shouldn't auto start" train for a while, mainly because I think the squad composition and style is completely wrong for what he offers. Kane at this point in his career isn't some workhorse runner, he sort of has to be compensated for and allowed to thrive dropping deeper and spraying passes to running wingers. Problem is England left the best "running winger" option at home in Rashford, and the only other real one in the squad is Gordon. So instead you get Kane dropping into the space that Jude wants to occupy, along with Foden ALSO moving into that space off the left, while Saka wants the ball played into his feet wide right as well. It creates a static clusterfeck with horrific spacing between players and it's why so many England games are shite to watch even when individual quality is high. The only real solution is to bench a couple of the "stars" for players that fit into the team more naturally but we've seen for years that Southgate doesn't have the balls to do so. Especially in some of the meaningless pre-tourney games, he should have been experimenting tactically.
For instance: One solution could be to start Jude and Foden in sort of a box midfield with Rice and one of Wharton/Mainoo behind them (not unlike our setup against City with Bruno/McT as the two frontmen), while Saka and Gordon/Eze hold width on either side. Would allow Jude and Foden to both operate more centrally while floating around which is what they do best, while still keeping width outside. Could also bench Foden and play Watkins off of the left as basically a secondary striker and true runner that plays off of Kane dropping deeper.
Whatever the case, the lineup/setup that was used for Serbia is going to get embarassed by a better team because it's incredibly easy to defend against, especially with the Walker/Trippier combo on the flanks.
I actually thought Southgate did a good job when he first came in. Dropped a lot of players in favour of a young squad who actually played as a team and functioned well. As time has gone on, he’s fallen into the same trap as every other England manager in recent history in trying to shoehorn every player into the side, regardless of whether it’s a balanced team or not.
Kobbie doing pre-match press for the Denmark game. Possibly an indication that he'll be starting?
Hope so! Trent in midfield is a non starter.
That wasn't nonsense and it worked too. For all of his in game ineptitude which is real enough he's generally shown to be pretty good with starting gameplans
As you say, the lineup was awfully unbalanced and I doubt Southgate will start that again.
The left side needs a fit Luke Shaw with say Gordon.
The problem with not picking Kane is that if England were to lose, Southgate would be ridiculed and criticised for doing that. So I can not see that happening.
Austria are no way as good, at least on paper. I remember Ralf being picked to pieces on here, but I always felt he was unfairly maligned. He's worked wonders compared with Southgate!
Oh yeah I don't think there's any chance he has the stones to bench Kane, just saying it's one of the clearer options to form a more cohesive XI with what is available considering Kane is painfully average for England anyways.
Not a fan of Rangnick the manager but I'd most certainly pick him over Southgate any day.
Now the first round of games has finished and we've seen every team play.. the reaction to the Serbia game was hilariously over the top. In tournament football you just get the W first game, nothing else matters.
I doubt other countries are embroiled in debates about dropping their best players right now. The dialoge around England (yet again) is an embarassment.
I doubt other countries are embroiled in debates about dropping their best players right now. The dialoge around England (yet again) is an embarassment.
Yeah the talk of dropping Kane is ridiculous. Southgate deserves his criticism at times but no manager is dropping Kane in favour or Watkins for supposed "balance".
Just because they wouldn't, it doesn't mean they shouldn't. As a United fan you should know that being the better striker doesn't necessarily make you the better choice for the team. Saha over Ruud is the obvious example.
England have too many players who need the ball played into feet and not enough runners off the ball. Kane is not clinical enough in the biggest moments to have so little involvement in games, but it is also pointless for him to drop deep to get on the ball if there are no runners in behind for him to pick out. Rashford is a miss in this regard as he is the closest in style to Son that England have.
There is a real imbalance in England's squad and an even bigger one in their starting XI.
There are imbalances, particularly in that first game but those issues should be tackled by changes elsewhere. Dropping Kane for Watkins or Toney is ridiculous in my opinion, and doing so after 1 game, even more so.
Kane is arguably the most clinical striker in the world. There are very few better finishers around so I don’t really understand your argument.
Why is it only City that people are fine with having loads of front line options
Probably because they want setups that make their underperforming players look better. X was filled with tacticos that were blaming Bellingham for Foden's weak performance, conveniently ignoring that not a single City player had performed up to their usual PL selves.
Ignore me this was meant for the Guler thread
Worked wonders is a bit much. Austria took Italy to ET in the RO16 3 years ago. I don't think qualifying for the Euro's 3 years later in what was a favourable group at any rate is "working wonders".
At least Southgate objectively did better than his predecessors.
Any chance Foden is dropped for tomorrow?
Should be, but I doubt it. Possibly hooked after half time.
If Shaw isn't fit to start then he should be. There is a lack of width without a proper full back to go past him when he looks to cut inside.
Hopefully the TAA experiment is over and kobbie starts tomorrow as well.
Saka's face!
Should do the same test with Lewis Hamilton.Gareth should be playing Saka at LB over Gomez or Trippier. If he can play Trent in midfield he can play Saka LB.
Saka was a quite brilliant LB for Arsenal, and I’d strongly argue that Palmer or Bowen at RW weakens the team far less than Tripps or Gomez at LB does. England have zero threat from their entire left side, especially with Southgate insisting on Foden out there.
I’d play Saka LB until Shaw is back.
Saka was a quite brilliant LB for Arsenal, and I’d strongly argue that Palmer or Bowen at RW weakens the team far less than Tripps or Gomez at LB does. England have zero threat from their entire left side, especially with Southgate insisting on Foden out there.
I’d play Saka LB until Shaw is back.
This is actually a great suggestion, then we could play Foden on the right and also temporarily solve that little conundrum. In fact, this seems so obvious I'm surprised this is the first time I've seen this idea floated.
Luke Shaw out.
I'm so sick of Southgate and his brainless decisions. Foden was dreadful and Trent just doesn't work in that position so you either change the formation or give others a chance; this is the time to experiment a little, not in the later stages. I cannot get excited about his England teams despite having so much talent available.
Southgate really is the worst. He's so useless. On the plus side, only weeks left for him in the job.
What an insult to the actual midfielders in the squad that Southgate is putting a clear imposter in their position. The midfielders have trained and drilled midfield play for the vast majority of their careers, TAA clearly has not. It's farcical because he genuinely hasn't a clue what to do or when to do it in midfield, and the moment the pressure is on, he's absolutely lost and a clear passenger.
There's a genuine catch-22 going into tomorrow's game if TAA is keeping his place in midfield: if he has a good game, he'll be kept in the role into the KO stages, and that's precisely when he'll get absolutely roasted by a good opposing midfield who will be gunning for him and his area of the pitch with organised tactics and planning.
If he's not going to try Wharton and Mainoo, they're not going to be as sharp as they should be if called upon. It's a real clusterfeck.
Foden may or may not work out, but at least he's in a position that doesn't jeopardise the defensive structure of the team should things not be working out for him whereas with TAA, the moment he's flailing, his supporting midfielder has to abandon his station and so too the backline behind him, which in turn leaves gaps for any savvy forwards to look to run into.
Southgate and Martinez are in a competition to see who can do worse with the resources at their disposal, it seems.
There's a genuine catch-22 going into tomorrow's game if TAA is keeping his place in midfield: if he has a good game, he'll be kept in the role into the KO stages, and that's precisely when he'll get absolutely roasted by a good opposing midfield who will be gunning for him and his area of the pitch with organised tactics and planning.
If he's not going to try Wharton and Mainoo, they're not going to be as sharp as they should be if called upon. It's a real clusterfeck.
Foden may or may not work out, but at least he's in a position that doesn't jeopardise the defensive structure of the team should things not be working out for him whereas with TAA, the moment he's flailing, his supporting midfielder has to abandon his station and so too the backline behind him, which in turn leaves gaps for any savvy forwards to look to run into.
Southgate and Martinez are in a competition to see who can do worse with the resources at their disposal, it seems.
Why take mainoo and wharton if he doesn't trust them to play?
What an absolute shitshow of a manager. Hope we get our pants pulled down tomorrow in midfield. Better the fecking goofy cnut learns tomorrow than in the knockout stages.
The man has no balls, coward as a player, coward as a manager
Couldn't agree more. It feels like self sabotage . He's going to get targeted , they'll lull him , let him start to feel secure , then pounce .
I can't get my head around how he's left it this late to try it , when Trent is saying they've been working on it for a year ?
I do understand persisting with Foden but it feels like this Trent experiment is going to bite us. We may still get away with it, but just doesn't make sense.
Just a media report so we shall see, but if it comes to pass that Southgate makes no changes in the starting XI he will have pants pulled down for the fraud that he is.
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