England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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Pickle85 said:
I bet you this isn't true. I'm sure most would privilege united over England, but I'm also sure that most will be watching the majority tournaments and along for the ride.
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We can agree to disagree, but I have a fair bit of evidence for my statement. See the Beckham documentary, the massive United > England banner etc. I know you said most would prefer United over England, but even so, you wouldn’t take your time to print a banner like that if you also had an allegiance to and loved the England team. It’s like openly proclaiming your greater love for one kid over another.

Needless to say, I’m not saying that any Englishmen or women isn’t patriotic and loyal to their country, but that I can absolutely understand why one would turn their back to the national team.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
We can agree to disagree, but I have a fair bit of evidence for my statement. See the Beckham documentary, the massive United > England banner etc. I know you said most would prefer United over England, but even so, you wouldn’t take your time to print a banner like that if you also had an allegiance to and loved the England team. It’s like openly proclaiming your greater love for one kid over another.

Needless to say, I’m not saying that any Englishmen or women isn’t patriotic and loyal to their country, but that I can absolutely understand why one would turn their back to the national team.
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Sorry mate, but I live here and can assure you that most English united fans will be following England in the Euros. Again, most will privilege United over England (me included) but I can assure you that most will be following England. And one very public banner from twenty years ago doesn't change that.
 
croadyman said:
Oh FFS we are gonna hear this until England are knocked out, go on why not just throw Rashford in there for good measure too while you're at it

Really wish Southgate sorry Holland would have sorted out issue with White, haven't a clue what Tomori ever did to upset him either. I understand Colwill as he's injured but will never get picking Dunk over Branthwaite.
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I would have taken Grealish all day long. He can actually play against a very low block unlike many we are taking. He also links up well with Foden.

He would have used Grealish - unlikely that he will use Bowen or Watkins though. I totally agree on Branthwaite/Dunk though - makes no sense.
 
Three things England need to change before the Euros.

1. Speed of play. Watched a few England games between last year and this year. They move the ball way too slow and it showed again against Iceland. They simply need to play much faster than they have recently. Foden, Palmer and Gordon is a sleep-inducing supporting attacking trio. Need to play Saka for the speed, Foden to start left and interchange with Gordon/whoever else is there depending on situation.

2 Verticality and risk taking. Iceland have provided the blueprint. Just sit deep and you can guarantee that is what every underdog who plays England at the Euros will do. So the ball needs to be moved more north-south than sideways. When the mids and defenders pick the ball up they need to look forward first. Only if there is no option forward can they pass sideways to retain possession. Have to play Trent for the verticality and risk taking and attacking impetus.

3. Positional discipline. Particularly from Kane and Rice. Kane needs to be told to stay in position and stop dropping so deep all the time and Rice, who is supposed to be the deepest midfielder, is often on the same line as the 10 and even further advanced sometimes.
 
Dannn411 said:
Three things England need to change before the Euros.

1. Speed of play. Watched a few England games between last year and this year. They move the ball way too slow and it showed again against Iceland. They simply need to play much faster than they have recently. Foden, Palmer and Gordon is a sleep-inducing supporting attacking trio. Need to play Saka for the speed, Foden to start left and interchange with Gordon/whoever else is there depending on situation.

2 Verticality and risk taking. Iceland have provided the blueprint. Just sit deep and you can guarantee that is what every underdog who plays England at the Euros will do. So the ball needs to be moved more north-south than sideways. When the mids and defenders pick the ball up they need to look forward first. Only if there is no option forward can they pass sideways to retain possession. Have to play Trent for the verticality and risk taking and attacking impetus.

3. Positional discipline. Particularly from Kane and Rice. Kane needs to be told to stay in position and stop dropping so deep all the time and Rice, who is supposed to be the deepest midfielder, is often on the same line as the 10 and even further advanced sometimes.
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Good post. Only bit I'm not sure about is the TAA point. Re Kane, I suspect Bellingham coming back into the side will help him stay up top in a traditional nine role.

We definitely need to play quicker and not so much side to side, which gives opponents much more opportunity to get back in shape.
 
FootballAI said:
Not mediocre? Grealish stats has been very poor this season. I mean just look at it, much poorer than Rashford who is not even get called. Grealish plays for the best team surrounded by better teammates and yet his stats is the poorest among the competing wingers.

He has been a highly rated player but his current form is just not good enough to compete against a team with such better wing forwards atm. Pep definitely made a mistake with letting Palmer leave over Grealish.
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Stats are overrated, I prefer to know and see how a player plays. We signed Sancho after big stats against pub players. Grealish almost always is good for England, and suits England's style of play far better than City's. Look at the last friendly against Bosnia - gets the ball, holds it up, then cuts past his man and in an instant supplies a great past to Trent for the goal. Eze and Gordon are very good dribblers in space, but do they have that composure? I'm not sure. They're young and not quite finished.

Madison likely won't play but again he's a very good player in the number 10 role, someone you can trust to come on against a tight block.

It's more wild to me that it's suddenly okay to take Eze, Gordon and Palmer when they have have about 5 appearances between them. Especially Eze, who's benefited from a resurgent Palace team. How do you know how that translates to against the good international teams? You don't. But Southgate is about to find out. He better hope Saka turns up because Foden out on the left will do his usual disappearing act.
 
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marktan said:
Stats are overrated, I prefer to know and see how a player plays. We signed Sancho after big stars against pub players. Grealish almost always is good for England, and suits England's style of play far better than City's. Look at the last friendly against Bosnia - gets the ball, holds it up, then cuts past his man and in an instant supplies a great past to Trent for the goal. Eze and Gordon are very good dribblers in space, but do they have that composure? I'm not sure. They're young and not quite finished.

Madison likely won't play but again he's a very good player in the number 10 role, someone you can trust to come on against a tight block.

It's more wild to me that it's suddenly okay to take Eze, Gordon and Palmer when they have have about 5 appearances between them. Especially Eze, who's benefited from a resurgent Palace team. How do you know how that translates to against the good international teams? You don't. But Southgate is about to find out. He better hope Saka turns up because Foden out on the left will do his usual disappearing act.
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Pretty much agree with everything there. Although I don't think Maddison is any good at all.
 
Pickle85 said:
Good post. Only bit I'm not sure about is the TAA point. Re Kane, I suspect Bellingham coming back into the side will help him stay up top in a traditional nine role.

We definitely need to play quicker and not so much side to side, which gives opponents much more opportunity to get back in shape.
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Wharton.
 
Shipperley said:
Wharton.
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My palace fan mate loves him but I don't think he'll be the answer this time around. No reflection on him but I don't think Southgate has the bottle to throw him in so inexperienced at international level.
 
Can sort of understand both sides of the Rashford argument - players should be rewarded for for their club form which is fair. That’s what Southgate has seemingly done. But then football managers - especially international football managers, always seemingly have their 1 or 2 “favorites” who are always selected, basically irrespective of club form because they’ve a good international record and add something to balance the team squad, over other options. Rashford could easily fall into that camp (sort of similar to how Deschamps always selected Giroud/Sissoko etc. - & yeah, I realise there might have been some issues behind the scenes with Benzema.).

I say this without really paying attention to how Rashfords performed for England the last year or if he’s even been selected, of course - & I personally think Southgate has done the right thing in not selecting him, so bad was his club form. Similar to Grealish. Now he’s also picked a fairly young squad ito international tournament football which isn’t always ideal. Just trying to see both sides of the argument.

Also, is Foden/Saka the new Lampard/Gerrard, as they both seem best suited to the right.
 
Ish said:
Can sort of understand both sides of the Rashford argument - players should be rewarded for for their club form which is fair. That’s what Southgate has seemingly done. But then football managers - especially international football managers, always seemingly have their 1 or 2 “favorites” who are always selected, basically irrespective of club form because they’ve a good international record and add something to balance the team squad, over other options.
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This is it, because as usual he decides when certain rules apply or not. He's just a poor manager.
 
duffer said:
I have just realised that I am old enough to have seen Eidur Gudjohnsen, his dad and now his son play for Iceland.

Are there any other families who have represented their country over 3 generations?
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The Maldinis maybe? Paolo and Cesare and think their son has played against England U21s, or one of the other youth teams.
 
Pickle85 said:
My palace fan mate loves him but I don't think he'll be the answer this time around. No reflection on him but I don't think Southgate has the bottle to throw him in so inexperienced at international level.
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I don’t think he has the bottle either but Wharton’s strongest skillset is his vertical passing off both feet. If we’re looking for more verticality to our play he’s the man. Can see the arguments for Trent but Wharton’s a better fit for the role than either Mainoo or Gallagher IMO.

Just a little sample here but it’s pretty indicative of his game generally. He plays the same in all thirds, whether he’s picking it up off the GK/CB and rolling it to another midfielder/wingback or playing through-balls to the attackers...the pass is almost always forwards, and on the money.
https://x.com/o_oconnell_/status/1797969421786550403
 
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Shipperley said:
I don’t think he has the bottle either but Wharton’s strongest skillset is his vertical passing off both feet. If we’re looking for more verticality to our play he’s the man. Can see the arguments for Trent but Wharton’s a better fit for the role than either Mainoo or Gallagher IMO.

Just a little sample here but it’s pretty indicative of his game generally. He plays the same in all thirds, whether he’s picking it up off the GK/CB and rolling it to another midfielder/wingback or playing through-balls to the attackers...the pass is almost always forwards, and on the money.
https://x.com/o_oconnell_/status/1797969421786550403
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A Mainoo Wharton is a nice combination to watch, where Wharton is the DCM. They will pass the ball quickly with purpose and composure around the midfield instead of the static Rice.
 
Shipperley said:
I don’t think he has the bottle either but Wharton’s strongest skillset is his vertical passing off both feet. If we’re looking for more verticality to our play he’s the man. Can see the arguments for Trent but Wharton’s a better fit for the role than either Mainoo or Gallagher IMO.

Just a little sample here but it’s pretty indicative of his game generally. He plays the same in all thirds, whether he’s picking it up off the GK/CB and rolling it to another midfielder/wingback or playing through-balls to the attackers...the pass is almost always forwards, and on the money.
https://x.com/o_oconnell_/status/1797969421786550403
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He does look a lovely player. Hope his progression continues and he nails down a starting place.
FootballAI said:
A Mainoo Wharton is a nice combination to watch, where Wharton is the DCM. They will pass the ball quickly with purpose and composure around the midfield instead of the static Rice.
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Realistically Rice is the only dead cert in that midfield, and rightly imo. He's absolutely integral to protecting our leaky back line.
 
Superden said:
so hold on, is the CAF now saying that Rashford is the man?
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It’s a difficult one for me, based on form he shouldn’t go but when has that stopped Southgate before?

I always liked Kane and Rashford together as it reminded me of Kane and Son, and I believe Kane made at least 1 assist to Rashford at the World Cup, not to mention Rashford looked dangerous and played pretty well then too.

As others have pointed out Rashford is probably Englands best player at making those runs in behind the defence and I feel like Saka and Foden are the type more often than not to come towards the ball.

It isn’t an easy choice for Southgate so I dont blame him for leaving Rashford out as it has been a rubbish season for him, and maybe Gordon can provide something similar.
 
If England is going to play against low blocks, Grealish had to be in the squad. Regardless of this season's form, he showed in last friendly what he is able to do, and England desperately need that kind of skillset.

Lots of players getting in each others way and lack of patience on the ball. That's not how you win against low block. Again, regardless of form, it is Alexander-Arnold who is best suited to play next to Rice when there is a defence to be unlocked.
 
Various posters said that left side would be problematic when the squad was announced, I think Rashford and Grealish bring more pedigree to the position than Gordon.

Both don't necessarily deserve to go however, but Maguire has gone beforehand despite poor club form.
 
It's such a United-centric view that a player who has been fecking awful all season hasn't gone to the Euros because of bad judgement.
 
Why are The Guardian posting articles about whether Mainoo has the defensive discipline to be no.6? Are they dense? Or just just don't understand football?

Since when is Mainoo obligated to be a 6 when Rice is playing? This is why Wharton is in the squad, so if Rice is out, Wharton fits in.
 
People need to stop refereing to positions as shirt numbers in general. It's such 'FIFA' generation crap, that people only seem to come up for air from the ever exciting "Who's the GOAT?" debates these days.


Honestly hate it. Isn't fecking Countdown.

Who's the GOAT?
Is he a true number 8 though?
XG

Ugh
 
I don't think Rashford should go - his true form is this season's form. That one season where he went crazy was a one off. He never looks natural out wide, but good to try get a goal.

I'd definitely take Grealish though. Crazy to leave him out for a bunch of kids who've never played at this level.
 
I always love the build up to England at these tournaments, they don't half swing from one extreme to the other.

Waltz through the qualifying- favourites.

Squad announced- still favourites (despite there being a serious lack ot quality across the back line)

We are currently at the - lost a shite pre tournament friendly - everyone is shite and the mangager hasn't a clue phase.

They'll be back to being darkhorses after winning 1 group game.

Before being favourites again by the end of the group stages.
 
I get the form thing but fecking hell, Rashford and Grealish are miles better than Gordon, reminds me of 2002 when England had Gerrard Scholes Beckham Butt etc and then there’s Trevor Sinclair randomly on the left
 
To be fair to him Gordon has been much better all season than Rashford and Grealish. But yeah, international football is another matter, extra pressure, and Gordon was bang average initially for Newcastle before settling in, so it's perhaps right to assume he may also struggle to initially adapt to international football so maybe a Euros is not the time to try bedding him in...

Hard to say for certain either way yet, and we all know Southgate would've got slaughtered for taking Rashford but maybe it was actually the sensible international decision.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
I’ve lived in and really enjoyed England for the best part of 3 years now because of how brilliant the people have been to me. Whenever I’ve needed any help, it feels as if it’s always come my way.

However, I can never fully, if at all at times, get behind the England team because I think a lot of England fans and the English media reflect the worst, most racist part of the country. We’ve seen what happened after the Euros final in 2021, and last night, Saka and more importantly — for no other reason than it hitting closer to home for us Reds — Mainoo were made scapegoats for the loss. We’ve all seen the articles from Jason Burt and Jacob Steinberg and deep down, we know exactly what they are even though I can’t really write it here without fortified evidence.

I reckon if you talked to most of the match going United contingent, who I’ve been extremely fortunate to be a part of a few times, the majority would tell you that they don’t give two hoots about England, and rightly so.
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Hoof the ball said:
Why are The Guardian posting articles about whether Mainoo has the defensive discipline to be no.6? Are they dense? Or just just don't understand football?

Since when is Mainoo obligated to be a 6 when Rice is playing? This is why Wharton is in the squad, so if Rice is out, Wharton fits in.
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What they are implying is that Mainoo is not 'smart' enough to be playing the role. And by doing so they are reverting to a tired, outdated and racist insinuation.
 
Classic overreaction to last night, England played exactly how you would expect them to very much within themselves with far more than one eye on the Tournament that starts in 8 days.

Nobody wants to get injured after being picked already this close to a tournament, can't blame them either. Save yourselves for the important games lads no problem with that.

Just have to wait and see now, three things could hold England up, Defence, inexperienced and Southgates's pragmatism. We will see Tournament football is hard to predict and there will be surprises, but I'm not that confident with England we should get out the group at least but beyond that I'm not so sure.
 
Stocar said:
If England is going to play against low blocks, Grealish had to be in the squad. Regardless of this season's form, he showed in last friendly what he is able to do, and England desperately need that kind of skillset.

Lots of players getting in each others way and lack of patience on the ball. That's not how you win against low block. Again, regardless of form, it is Alexander-Arnold who is best suited to play next to Rice when there is a defence to be unlocked.
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Yes he probably should have been in the squad after cameo on Monday, however you get the feeling Southgate didn't know who to drop of the new ones, perhaps he naively thought they could break down a low block. I am desperate for Eze/Bowen/Gordon to do something that changes the narrative.
 
swooshboy said:
What they are implying is that Mainoo is not 'smart' enough to be playing the role. And by doing so they are reverting to a tired, outdated and racist insinuation.
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I'm not sure this is true. They've talked about him being positionally a little indisciplined which, let's be honest, is often par for the course at his age, regardless of race. They've also said that he's physically not necessarily fit for the role which, if anything, goes against a pretty common (and racist) trope often thrown around where black players are concerned. The papers focusing on him as the problem is itself problematic, but suggesting that there are questions around whether he has the positional discipline to play the assigned role at international level at his age doesn't seem racist to me.
 
England have the luxury of three quality options for the right side between Foden, Palmer and Saka and not one of them plays for United.
 
swooshboy said:
What they are implying is that Mainoo is not 'smart' enough to be playing the role. And by doing so they are reverting to a tired, outdated and racist insinuation.
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Seriously ? Playing a holding midfielder requires a lot of experience and discipline. Let's be honest, Mainoo is brilliant - going forward. Defensively he has a lot to learn - which is natural. He has almost no experience and is the youngest player in the England squad. Rio Ferdinand received a lot of criticism when he was at West Ham and Leeds - because he was brilliant 95% of the time and then seemed to lose focus once or twice during a game. He learned - Mainoo will too. But it's not racist to say that he hasn't got what it takes to have that role against the best players in the world. YET.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
I’ve lived in and really enjoyed England for the best part of 3 years now because of how brilliant the people have been to me. Whenever I’ve needed any help, it feels as if it’s always come my way.

However, I can never fully, if at all at times, get behind the England team because I think a lot of England fans and the English media reflect the worst, most racist part of the country. We’ve seen what happened after the Euros final in 2021, and last night, Saka and more importantly — for no other reason than it hitting closer to home for us Reds — Mainoo were made scapegoats for the loss. We’ve all seen the articles from Jason Burt and Jacob Steinberg and deep down, we know exactly what they are even though I can’t really write it here without fortified evidence.

I reckon if you talked to most of the match going United contingent, who I’ve been extremely fortunate to be a part of a few times, the majority would tell you that they don’t give two hoots about England, and rightly so.
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The majority back in 1998 sure. Late 90s when ABUism was at it's peak.

But these days when the tournaments come round most United fans will/do care about England.

Only bitter try hard edgelords like Adam McKola would say otherwise but you know he'll be still watching..and hoping..
 
We're mostly grateful if Southgate makes 80% good decisions, but it's a shame it has to be like that. The game against Iceland highlighted two things.

a) The CBs - as predicted are highly injury-prone - confirmed by Stones limping off and not even able to be replaced by Dunk. Why is Dunk in there? He has shown he is a walking accident waiting to happen against high-quality opposition, the answer is Southgate needs an older head in there to perform the 'Henderson' function for the group, which is kind of annoying - you take your best players. The decision to send Braithwaite back was a mistake and likely to be a costly one. He is better on the ball than either Guehi or Konsa.
b) Against low blocks, we don't have enough players who are able to unpick these, and Grealish is an absolute shoo-in for these situations - with plenty of evidence. In the group stages we;ll be up against low blocks, and I fully expect similar situations to this Iceland game. Stupid not to take Grealish.
 
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