England at World Cup 2014
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
Simple really drop Garrerd, Rooney, Jagielka and Cahill from the next match.
Play Smalling and Jones as CB's that lest they have pace to recover if they push up.
Garrerd offer nothing really and he'll get caught out in the champions league (Wilshire)
Ox-Chamberlain or Barkley for Rooney but really Rooney should be captain
Play Smalling and Jones as CB's that lest they have pace to recover if they push up.
Garrerd offer nothing really and he'll get caught out in the champions league (Wilshire)
Ox-Chamberlain or Barkley for Rooney but really Rooney should be captain
No we didn't. We played 4-3-3 as could clearly be seen by the lack of players in midfield.
Baines is a brilliant LB (attacking skills - passing, crossing, going past defenders - ,not defence, being his main attributes) but had an awful WC - probably because of mis-direction and poor tactics from Hodgson. This was his one chance - he'll be past it for 2016 and Shaw should take over now. Ditto Johnson - Flanagan is probably the best prospect we have at the moment.
Cahill is the best CB we have so should certainly not be dropped ! Whoever can best play at LCB should partner him. Rooney should most certainly not be captain .. he should join Gerrard, Baines, Jagielka, Welbeck and Johnson on the bench for CR and should not be a starter for England going into the Euros - as perceptively commented on in Eriksen's excellent post above.
We had Welbeck, Sterling and Sturridge all playing well advanced. Welbeck hardly ever came back into MF when we were in possession and consequently was usually stranded upfield when possession turned over. Rooney was isolated, playing neither on the shoulder of the defenders, nor helping back in midfield ... so our 3 was often a 2 (Gerrard/Henderson) with us having 3 or 4 'attackers', so hardly a surprise they were over-run for a lot of the time.
England certainly didn't play in a 4-3-3 system. Who's the third central midfielder?
So? It's about more than one match. Uruguay have done very well for the last few years. They have a good generation with a few outstanding players, they've had the same coach for several years. It's a good situation from which you can build a team that's at least as good - and they are better than that - as the sum of its parts.
England are between generations, with no world class players, no top quality defenders, no top quality midfielders, some ageing quality players, young ones who have some way to go...
I was under the impression England was far more realistic ahead of this World Cup. Looking at the response, though, I guess not.
What are you on about Smalling is a better CB then that clown.
Cahill is rubbish positionally wise:
Got sucked in for this:
lost his man for this:
yet again:
anybody agrees?
i hope engerland get spanked by costa rica. we are out anyway, but this win would be great for the fantastic costa rica team, and i dont think the hodg could stay alive if he loses 3 games at the world cup.
i hope engerland get spanked by costa rica. we are out anyway, but this win would be great for the fantastic costa rica team, and i dont think the hodg could stay alive if he loses 3 games at the world cup.
Did
England were the biggest flops of this World Cup.Beaten by a well below average Italian side and a game but limited Uruguayan side albeit with a world class striker.They were up against it from the start with a weak manager like Hodgson in charge and a skipper who is past it.
Quite agree ! But he also did some sterling work. Whatever mistakes he made he is, unfortunately, still the best CB we have at present (and he is definitely better than Smalling) !
You're right ... it was more like 4-2-4.
They have very many clear weak spots, ones that are far worse than England. We might have some average players, they have players playing in obscure leagues at the worst end of their careers.
Two very good centrehalves? They have one in Godin, who should've been sent off. Two decent fullbacks.
If you're calling Cavani world-class then so is Rooney. Sturridge isn't there yet but certainly you could say he's a very good striker. Then supported by a host of excellent players, all plying their trade at the best teams in the league.
They aren't a very good team. We lost because they are organized, pressed us well, seemed to have more will to win and because Gerrard made individual errors because when played in a midfield 2 he's a total liability. Not because we have worse players.
I am guessing the game against Costa Rica will show what's England's biggest problem. Instead of giving youth the chance to shine and get experience in meaningless game, you'll probably still start with Gerrard, Johnson, Jagielka, Cahill, etc., for no valid reason, and I am guessing Lampard will get at least 20 minutes, again, for no reason. Actually, there is a reason, Gerrard has to start because he needs to catch Beckham's record, because that's what's most important thing on this World Cup for England, so everyone can celebrate his name and BBC and Skysports can make highlights of his England's career saying he should stay there for another 4 years so he can try his luck on another WC, while they discuss how they should drop England's best player.
Do you know what 433 is?
Do you know what 433 is?
This Group is a group of death. England was very unlucky to sit in this one. Italy and Uruguay are massive sides and Costa Rica turned out to be a Dark Horse.
What England needs......... Youth. Look at the Netherlands. All teams on every level play the Dutch school football. Youth is sooo important. When the dutch went out of the Euro2012 in the group stages, it was almost the same team who went to the finals in 2010 WC. from the 23 players 2014 WC, only 6 where in South Africa. England needs to refresh. Start with a team with a average of max 23 years old, including some players arround 28. Maybee you dont make a chance in the 2016 Euro, but the next WC you have a team to compete with the strongests. LvG will help England with providing young talent, becauce he will have a big finger in the youth sector of Man Utd. Hopefully other great English clubs will invest in Youth aswell.
What England needs......... Youth. Look at the Netherlands. All teams on every level play the Dutch school football. Youth is sooo important. When the dutch went out of the Euro2012 in the group stages, it was almost the same team who went to the finals in 2010 WC. from the 23 players 2014 WC, only 6 where in South Africa. England needs to refresh. Start with a team with a average of max 23 years old, including some players arround 28. Maybee you dont make a chance in the 2016 Euro, but the next WC you have a team to compete with the strongests. LvG will help England with providing young talent, becauce he will have a big finger in the youth sector of Man Utd. Hopefully other great English clubs will invest in Youth aswell.
Look I said it before Sturridge made his move to liverpool or even started a lot of games for Chelsea: He was/is England's best attacking talent. In terms of what he can do, he's heads above Owen.
And i agree with what @Eriksen said. England is not a terrible team, HOdgson just lacked conviction to go through with how to get the best of the players available to him.
This is not a group of death. Our group is a harder than this one. We have Ghana, Portugal and Germany. Nobody gave us a chance and yet we got 3 points so far.
Has any other nation spectacularly misused three footballing greats likes Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard & Paul Scholes? People seem to want revise & manipulate history with the latter but he was a failure for England as well and this was before Eriksson played him at left wing. While the former two's demise was blamed on their inability to play together. Well, Lampard hasn't played a single minute in both our last two tournaments yet we've been atrocious in both.
Place either of these three in an Italian, Brazilian, German or Argentine kit and their International careers would be wholly different. Speaks volumes about how important management & coaching is at this level. These are players that have excelled at the highest level (Champions League) multiple times but their exploits in an England shirt couldn't be anymore different.
Place either of these three in an Italian, Brazilian, German or Argentine kit and their International careers would be wholly different. Speaks volumes about how important management & coaching is at this level. These are players that have excelled at the highest level (Champions League) multiple times but their exploits in an England shirt couldn't be anymore different.
Spain were far and away the biggest flops. Nothing was expected of England outside of England.
Dont think Cahill deserves to be dropped and that too for smalling and jones who have not shown to be better than him.
Agree with the rest especially jagielka and gerrard.
"No top quality defenders" - what exactly do you mean by top quality? Cahill was absolute top draw for Chelsea this season, the best defender in the league by some distance actually, hence his appearance in the TOTS. Put him next to someone not a plodder like Jagielka and he's class. There really aren't too many better than him in the world at the moment. Also; the guy partnering Godin isn't even close to the quality of Jagielka or even Smalling, Jones etc yet, all regular starters at top clubs. We then have Manchester City's starting goalkeeper, supposedly one of the top left backs in the league and Liverpool's first choice right back. Please don't act like we don't have the players to get out of that group.
I agree that they play better than the sum of their parts. That's because they have a manager and a system that works, we don't, thus we lost.
"No world class players". That depends on your definition. You can argue Rooney being world-class. Some think he is, some don't. His numbers are, most professional footballers seem to consider him one of the better forwards in world football. I'd say he's better than Cavani, he's certainly achieved a lot more in his career and had a better season this year. Sturridge had 21 goals in the league this season and was very good last season for Liverpool, he's not world-class but he's certainly a top forward who could potentially become that.
I agree with no top quality midfielders - but then the midfield is on a totally different level to Uruguay, Costa Rica etc. They were playing some truly awful players there. Henderson and Gerrard this season were absolutely crucial in Liverpool challenging for the title - please don't tell me that as soon as they face teams like Uruguay they turn utter rubbish. There's something wrong here that isn't to do with player quality. Even the likes of Norwich had Leroy Fer, better than every single central midfielder Uruguay or Costa Rica had on the field.
We had the attacking players to cause huge damage to Uruguay and even though our midfielders are far from world-class, they should have been able to control the game against the plodders put out: Sterling, Lallana, Sturridge, Rooney, Barkley - all vitally important to their club sides and some of the best performers in the league this year. You're not telling me they aren't good enough to get us out of that group? Costa Rica managed it relying on a man who failed at Fulham.
We were realistic. We expected to get out the group, probably second to Italy, and reach the quarter finals at best. We did not expect to lose to Uruguay, because they aren't very good anymore. They had a horrible qualifying campaign. We have a better team than them.
When the likes of Chile who have one world-class midfielder in Vidal and a good attacker in Sanchez (Rooney is better than him, Sturridge is on his level) accompanied by some half decent players like Vargas, Paredes, Medel etc. They aren't better than England player wise yet are on 6 points and have beaten Spain. They play as a team and are well coached and drilled.
We had expectations because we genuinely have a decent collection of players and its sad that once again they've under performed
Baines is a bloody excellent attacking left back, as shown by his very impressive statistics for Everton. Brilliant crosser for one.
He's vulnerable defensively though, not as bad as he showed for England though. Like most of the squad, he played nowhere near as well as he has for his club.
Whilst everyone seem to agree that Gerrard and Henderson have been average in midfield the honest truth is that the alternatives are no better.
Bottom line is England simply dont have good enough proper central midfielders. At least with CB there is Jone/Smalling/Stones but with CM there is zilch. They may have to look at U21s or U20 else its square pegs in round holes
Bottom line is England simply dont have good enough proper central midfielders. At least with CB there is Jone/Smalling/Stones but with CM there is zilch. They may have to look at U21s or U20 else its square pegs in round holes
Central midfield is the big worry for England's future, there's really no one coming through who looks even close to top level in that position. In defence there's a few, likewise out wide, but central midfield shows a void of talent. I recall Dan Crowley was meant to be good but he didn't even make the under 17 squad for the Euro's, and as shown with McEachran, talent at 16/17 is no guarantee of the future. Maybe Wilshere will have a Ramsey like resurgence, but as much as anything he seems too injury prone for the rigours of top flight football.
Ward-Prowse shows some promise for the under 21's, and even then I highly doubt he'll be a top level player. Maybe he'll break out as a first choice for Southampton this year and grow from there. But England won't do anything till they produce some world class midfielders who can dictate the game.
Ward-Prowse shows some promise for the under 21's, and even then I highly doubt he'll be a top level player. Maybe he'll break out as a first choice for Southampton this year and grow from there. But England won't do anything till they produce some world class midfielders who can dictate the game.
It seems you are the one who doesn't have a clear understanding if you think we weren't playing 4-3-3. Welbeck & Sterling were the wide forwards, Sturridge obviously the focal point but does not play as a centre forward. One DM - Gerrard and two floating midfielders who were Rooney and Henderson - except that Rooney did hardly any defensive work (hence my comment on 4-2-4). Welbeck & Sterling had defensive duties but you rarely saw us go 1-4 in midfield and hence we were more often than not over-run.
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@Revan
This is a little misleading though! The problem is that because Bundesliga only have 18 teams, I can't get a decent way of appearance check. What I mean by this, a fairer way to compare the leagues is to say players with 5 appearances or more are only counted. But because Bundesliga play 4 less games, there stats won't be fair. Having said that, these stats are also unfair considering Bundesliga have 2 less clubs than the PL anyway! So perhaps I'll do it with say 8 or more appearances. I think the differences between the leagues won't be all that different. But the Bundesliga is a much younger competition than the Premier League.
Still, I thought it was an interesting comparison.
[edit] Added in the same as above but altered the specification to 9 appearances or more (roughly a quarter of the season).
This is a little misleading though! The problem is that because Bundesliga only have 18 teams, I can't get a decent way of appearance check. What I mean by this, a fairer way to compare the leagues is to say players with 5 appearances or more are only counted. But because Bundesliga play 4 less games, there stats won't be fair. Having said that, these stats are also unfair considering Bundesliga have 2 less clubs than the PL anyway! So perhaps I'll do it with say 8 or more appearances. I think the differences between the leagues won't be all that different. But the Bundesliga is a much younger competition than the Premier League.
Still, I thought it was an interesting comparison.
[edit] Added in the same as above but altered the specification to 9 appearances or more (roughly a quarter of the season).
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England weren't playing 433......it was quite clearly 4231 and has been for ages.....which has advanced from Roy's starting setup of 4411/442(Rooney-Welbeck interchanged going deeper for a bit). Think Fabio started to look at 433, but Wilshere's never been fit long enough for them to truly consider it, though you could of have Jones in a 3, and sacrifice one of Rooney/Sturridge.
This piece is so SPOT on
Individual Focus on Rooney, Hodgson Hides Real Reasons for England World Cup Woe
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...=programming-UK?is_shared=true?is_shared=true
Individual Focus on Rooney, Hodgson Hides Real Reasons for England World Cup Woe
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...=programming-UK?is_shared=true?is_shared=true
Well done, you beat a team (undeservedly) that is ranked 24 places below you ! When you consider how well Costa Rica are playing there is no doubt which is the tougher group.
World Rankings (5th June) : Germany (2) Portugal (4) USA (13) Ghana (37) = 56
World Rankings : Italy (9) Uruguay (7) England (10) Costa Rica (28) = 54
Loads of people called USA getting through.....oddly enough, not Americans, because they mostly don't know what the other 3 teams are like and just see Ronaldo!
With England its always a competition to see who is the most outraged of them all
I echo this. Cahill is no world beater. He isn't a Thiago Silva or even a Raphael Varane but he is a good centre half. He's at least as good as Smalling and Jones, I'd rate him as better than them both right now, in fact.
I think what we can all agree on is that Gerrard is done. He was average in the league all season and I think his negative qualities were covered by the others around him for Liverpool. We need a more dynamic, quick midfield now whether it be in a two or a three but it certainly shouldn't feature Gerrard again.
Except maybe for the part, where he compares Gareth Barry to Xavi and Pirlo.
The part where he describes Roberto Martinez and Pocchetino as "world class coaches" is gold as well. World class for having one decent season each and before that managing to just about keep teams from getting relegated?
The funny part is, they don't even have to think up a new headline. The subs just cut and paste what was written in 2010.
I looked at the article, such as it was, and a little box popped up saying "Follow Team England." So I went to Expedia and booked a one-way ticket from Rio to Heathrow.