England at World Cup 2014

[clarkydaz]

I'm going to have to disagree. Of course we had enough quality to get through this group. Italy undoubtedly are a quality side, we would have done well to get a point against them.


As for Uruguay, I've mentioned this in another thread but I'll touch upon it again. Lodeiro, the attacking midfielder behind Cavani and Suarez plays for Botafogo in the Brazillian league. The man partnering Godin is 19 with one cap for Atletico Madrid, replacing the injured Lugano who wasn't good enough for West Brom. They have a defensive midfielder playing in the Liga MX. Beyond that some half-decent players and then obviously Cavani & Suarez. Now Cavani is no better than Rooney, worse if we're going off this season. Suarez is pure quality, but he's one player.

If you don't think we have enough quality in a squad including multiple members of the Premier League team of the season, numerous players who challenged for the Premier League title and were key components in that side, Sturridge for example had 21 goals and was second top scorer in the league. Henderson was a key player in that Liverpool side, gaining a lot of praise for his massive improvement. Cahill was an absolute rock for Chelsea, Rooney got an impressive goal/assist tally considering how his team were playing. Gerrard topped the assist charts, other players like Lambert had 13 goals, only 3 less than Giroud who is at a better club yet started for France tonight.

Lallana made the league's team of the season, as did our back up left back Shaw, Gerrard and Cahill. Sterling was another key player for Liverpool, terrorizing numerous Premier League defences.


I'm sick to death of people making out we're some kind of pub side. There are championship level players in that Uruguay starting 11 for god sake, their bench has plodders like Gargano filling it. Our team may not be some kind of star filled dazzlingly brilliant world beaters but its more than good enough to be competitive.

I agree with you otherwise, Roy has totally fecked up this world cup with his total lack of tactical sense. Think about it, we equalized in both games, got ahead of ourselves and conceded on the break two times. That's down to the managerto calm down the players, get us back in to shape, instead we made silly errors and the opponent went up the field and smashed one in. His subs were totally ineffective "Oh, we're losing? Ip dip do, which young player the media likes shall I put on I wonder!", the team lacked any clear identity other than running in to brick walls or chucking in cross after cross.

Gerrard in a two man midfield where he was lost, there is a whole list of errors down to the management that led to our exit. The players themselves honestly weren't that bad bar a few (Jagielka, Gerrard, Baines were all woeful), our attacking play looked relatively promising considering a lack of any midfield or structure.

Pirlo was allowed to do whatever he wanted in the Italy match. When Costa Rica's midfield nullify him far more effectively, you know its not a question of quality. Uruguay barely managed to string together any passes, they looked woeful 90 percent of the time. They scored from their only two shots on target.

He's an idiot. Like Moyes, all he knows how to do is 4-4-2, chuck it in to the big man and to play park the bus. That's why we actually managed to top the groups in the Euro's, getting a draw vs. France, a better team in pretty much every way than Uruguay, as well as taking Italy to penalties and defeating a Zlatan led Sweden.

That's because whilst the direction was the wrong one, at least we HAD a direction. A way of playing, a system in that tournament, one that Hodgson knew how to coach well, its all he knows. We didn't here, thus despite some decent performances we are out. Other sides like Costa Rica and Chile have a system and work extremely hard.

Finally, the motivation. I think we are the least motivated team in the tournament. You look at some teams lining up and their players are in tears at the anthem, Suarez is all over the place after scoring two goals, they are hugging each other, running around like madmen. Our players mumble the anthem. We just don't want it enough I don't think. It's not a British thing, its something unique to our football side. Our other sports teams, as shown by the Olympics, don't lack this desire that other countries show.


We won't get anywhere till Hodgson is gone and a manager with a clear direction on how to play football is brought in and not a "safe option".

great post

 

[BordeauxMUFC]

You can see negatives in anything if you look hard enough. I see no problem in Lampard and Gerrard telling the other guys how painful is to exit World Cup, and no reason to believe it would impact them negatively.

But to say it before the Uruguay game?

 

[Pexbo]

Gerrard needs to retire after this tournament. If he's still playing during Euro qualifiers I'll fecking despair of the England setup.

It's got to be a young side playing the euro qualifiers and if they don't qualify, so be it, they will learn and take that to the next World Cup.

Leading an average bunch of underachievers to fail at the euros again will achieve nothing.

 

[Pexbo]

But to say it before the Uruguay game?

As if England don't play with enough fear already.

 

[Classy]

...

Agree with all of what you are saying. It has never been a case of the players not being good enough because they are as good, on paper, as most of the other teams bar the absolute elite. I'm not saying we are better than Brasil or Germany, I don't think we are, but I do think we are better than Uruguay and at least as good as Italy. Unfortunately the way we are being told to play is counter-productive to the quality of these players and will continue to be until someone comes along and gets them to play pressing, quick football.

You don't have to have the quality of Iniesta or Suarez to press the ball carrier in his own half and you don't have to have the finesse of Messi to make darting forward runs into space in the opponents final third.

 

[Amir]

At the moment, England lack quality defenders in their prime (some good talents who may or may not make it at the top). It also doesn't have really good midfielders, with the best bet - Wilshere - suffering from injuries which halted his progress. That's the basis of a football team. I don't know why people had expectations, think England should have gone through or even reckon they are better than Uruguay or Italy. They're not, certainly not right now. There are just too many holes there.

I actually liked what I saw from England in the World Cup. It didn't reinvent itself or anything like that, but it added some pace to the attack and was more dynamic and certainly interesting to watch. Results could have been different if it had the back line of 8-10 years ago, but it doesn't. It is what it is.

Seems like people think Hodgson should have thrown in all the youngsters together and see this tournament as nothing more than a learning path. Well, it doesn't work that way, I don't think any nation does that in a World Cup or a Euro. And if Hodgson is committed to keep bringing on the younger players over the next two years, that may be good enough. England already went for the big european coaches. That wasn't a magical solution to anything.

 

[Eriksen]

At the moment, England lack quality defenders in their prime (some good talents who may or may not make it at the top). It also doesn't have really good midfielders, with the best bet - Wilshere - suffering from injuries which halted his progress. That's the basis of a football team. I don't know why people had expectations, think England should have gone through or even reckon they are better than Uruguay or Italy. They're not, certainly not right now. There are just too many holes there.

I actually liked what I saw from England in the World Cup. It didn't reinvent itself or anything like that, but it added some pace to the attack and was more dynamic and certainly interesting to watch. Results could have been different if it had the back line of 8-10 years ago, but it doesn't. It is what it is.

Seems like people think Hodgson should have thrown in all the youngsters together and see this tournament as nothing more than a learning path. Well, it doesn't work that way, I don't think any nation does that in a World Cup or a Euro. And if Hodgson is committed to keep bringing on the younger players over the next two years, that may be good enough. England already went for the big european coaches. That wasn't a magical solution to anything.

Yeah, Uruguay have no holes in their team. None whatsoever. Perfect side.

 

[Amir]

Yeah, Uruguay have no holes in their team. None whatsoever. Perfect side.

Very few teams don't have a clear weak spot. But a good goalkeeper, two very good centerhalves who are used to playing with one another and two class strikers can take you a long way, even if other parts of your team are only average. Like the semi finals four years ago....

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

So Hogdson wanted to try and play the 'Liverpool way', yet he didn't implement the tactics Brendan used last season. Hoddle was waffling on about how poor our off the ball movement was in the final third, but Sterling and Sturridge's movement was brilliant at Liverpool, same goes for Welbeck and Rooney, therefore, the system and tactics have to be blamed.

Said from the start we should have gone with a 4-3-3. Not only would it have allowed us to keep the ball better, but with 3 centre midifleders, one of which would be a holder, I can imagine we'd be more solid off the ball too.

Going forward, I hope we start playing 3 in the middle. It annoys me because it's not like Hogdson hasn't tried it before. I just don't understand the need to change it. We (England) always feel to play systems based on players form, instead of playing a system that will give us the right balance.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Very few teams don't have a clear weak spot. But a good goalkeeper, two very good centerhalves who are used to playing with one another and two class strikers can take you a long way, even if other parts of your team are only average. Like the semi finals four years ago....

Uraguay started a 19 year old with 12 first team appearances.

 

[MUFCpiffgawd]

Englands past players were far better

Beckham, Owen were genuine world class players

u lot were just unlucky in this tournament. Its not end. Although ur manager should have change the formation to play both Rooney and Sturridge as CFs. Its not like you dont have the players. the only real weak player in your team was Glenn Johnson.

 

[.Rossi]

Michael Owen won a Ballon d'Or and a FIFA player of the world cup award........

But yeah, he was never world class..........

 

[MUFCpiffgawd]

Michael Owen won a Ballon d'Or and a FIFA player of the world cup award........

But yeah, he was never world class..........

Sturridge is a superior player to Owen was. Lets not forget all the young players you have.


I wish we had those players in our team. I dont understand why english people aren't more supportive of their team(win or lose). Klinsmann did something nobody would have dared: Drop our best player and look where we are in what was supposed to be a group of death?
Why would Hodgson revert to making rooney the creative drive of the team when its been proven that the play of your team tends to get lethargic if he's your #10? why not change the formation and play both of them as CFs with a 10 behind them?

 

[.Rossi]

Sturridge is a superior player to Owen was. Lets not forget all the young players you have.


I wish we had those players in our team. I dont understand why english people aren't more supportive of their team(win or lose). Klinsmann did something nobody would have dared: Drop our best player and look where we are in what was supposed to be a group of death?
Why would Hodgson revert to making rooney the creative drive of the team when its been proven that the play of your team tends to get lethargic if he's your #10? why not change the formation and play both of them as CFs with a 10 behind them?

What young players we have?

I'm Irish

 

[XdanielredX]

72 support staff, including tailor made sports drinks based on the sweat patterns of each player. I think off the pitch England are always one of the best prepared sides yet constantly on the pitch they are outperformed by nations that have a fraction of the budget and infrastructure.

That reminds me of a perfect analogy for England at this world cup actually.

England are like those rich kids that have all the top gear in whatever field they are in; musician for example, but can't use them for shit, meanwhile the poor kid down the road uses a heap of junk but can make it sound 10x better than what the rich kid can because he doesn't worry about bells and whistles and just focuses on playing the instrument well.

 

[Isotope]

Sturridge is a superior player to Owen was.

Bah..

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

how can people still want Hodgson in charge? this is our worst world cup since 1958 and that's IF we beat Costa Rica (not a given at all), we haven't played well for the vast majority of games under him, his tactics are utterly clueless and he has no plan B when they don't work, his team selection at times has been baffling as well!

 

[Banana007]

how can people still want Hodgson in charge? this is our worst world cup since 1958 and that's IF we beat Costa Rica (not a given at all), we haven't played well for the vast majority of games under him, his tactics are utterly clueless and he has no plan B when they don't work, his team selection at times has been baffling as well!

Yeah and look at Liverpool since they dumped him. Rodgers has turned them from relegation fodder to challenging for the title..

Give it to Rodgers I say and kill 2 birds with 1 stone!

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

Sturridge is a superior player to Owen was. Lets not forget all the young players you have.

lol. NO.

Owen till he went to Newcastle and got crocked was easily England's best goalscorer since Lineker, heck had he not had the injuries/joined shitty Newcastle he would probably be our leading scorer of all time even. he had fantastic pace and was a lethal finisher, before his injuries his partnership with Rooney looked like it might be the best we've had in a very long time as well.

40 goals in 89 caps is still a very very good record for an England striker thesedays as well, I would be amazed if Sturridge scores anything like that many goals for England in his career.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

Yeah and look at Liverpool since they dumped him. Rodgers has turned them from relegation fodder to challenging for the title..

Give it to Rodgers I say and kill 2 birds with 1 stone!

quite! Hodgson is mediocre and one dimensional, he has been completely found out at this world cup just like he was found out with Liverpool.

Rodgers I can't see taking the job tbh but yeah he would be a good fit and obviously it would hurt Liverpool lol

 

[Loublaze]

quite! Hodgson is mediocre and one dimensional, he has been completely found out at this world cup just like he was found out with Liverpool.

Rodgers I can't see taking the job tbh but yeah he would be a good fit and obviously it would hurt Liverpool lol

You'd probably do a great job but thank God you're managing United. Aren't you too busy to be posting online?

 

[Goalfather]

lol. NO.

Owen till he went to Newcastle and got crocked was easily England's best goalscorer since Lineker, heck had he not had the injuries/joined shitty Newcastle he would probably be our leading scorer of all time even. he had fantastic pace and was a lethal finisher, before his injuries his partnership with Rooney looked like it might be the best we've had in a very long time as well.

40 goals in 89 caps is still a very very good record for an England striker thesedays as well, I would be amazed if Sturridge scores anything like that many goals for England in his career.

Sturridge is easily more talented than Owen, whether he fulfills his potential is another story.

Owen is lucky in that for both club and country the teams were set up for him to score, it benefited him but I believe it hurt the teams he played for because it made them one dimensional.

Sturridge has to play second fiddle to Suarez ( somewhat deservedly) at club level and Rooney (quite unjustly at international level. Sturridge was arguably England's best player against Uraguay and had a pretty good game against italy but he hardly gets a mention.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

You'd probably do a great job but thank God you're managing United. Aren't you too busy to be posting online?

Sturridge is easily more talented than Owen, whether he fulfills his potential is another story.

Owen is lucky in that for both club and country the teams were set up for him to score, it benefited him but I believe it hurt the teams he played for because it made them one dimensional.

Sturridge has to play second fiddle to Suarez ( somewhat deservedly) at club level and Rooney (quite unjustly at international level. Sturridge was arguably England's best player against Uraguay and had a pretty good game against italy but he hardly gets a mention.

really? I think he's far too selfish to be as good as Owen was tbh.

Liverpool weren't one dimensional at all with Owen though? at least not from what I remember anyway...England, yes but mainly because we lacked another consistent goalscoring threat alongside him till Rooney came along.

Sturridge's finishing is awful, he needs more shots to score than a LOT of other players (Rooney included), he won't score as many with Liverpool next season either imo, people will defend more against them which will cut off his chances and frustrate him, which is when he gets selfish and struggles. he wasn't our best player against Uruguay either, he had one shot easily saved and otherwise did pretty much nothing...

 

[Alun]

Gutted they are out (German saying this). Hate them or love them they always add drama, excitement and controversy to every tournament they enter. Bottom line, the world cup will me them and will be worse off now they are out. Plus I didn't see enough of Sterling, Barclay and the rest of the over-hyped PL youngsters. I mean, they were only here a week!

Thing that really saddens me is how great a spectacle Columbia vs England would have been. So far Uruguay vs England is my the match of the WC, not just for the quality of play but everything else - the drama, the atmosphere and Suarez. If you think that was something, imagine vs Columbia in Rio as the evening transitions into the darkness of the night. The setting, the South America vs Europe thing - it would have been something. Such a shame that the match if off the cards. Can imagine Sturridge scoring early with James getting a late equaliser pushing the game into pens and que more heartbreak for England. Man that would have made for great television.

p.s i think Roy has been spot on with his team selection so far.

 

[JustFootballFan]

I get that the NRA lobby prevents America from changing its gun laws, but who is stopping England from making the necessary changes to develop better coaches and footballers? Is it the EPL, where clubs are scared how much they´d have to pay for a real world class players from England? Are it the newspapers?

any slightest showing of good play within a english youngster and he is pushed towards his first international cap

look what germany did,look what spain did, they dont rush "talent" through, you may say they have a great first team but they still make sure players like ozil go through the ranks and win the junior tournaments,its very important,england need to learn

That´s just not true. Recently Germany has pushed it´s young players into the squads earlier than ever before (without much success if you only consider titles as such). Look at the starting eleven:

Defense: Hummels and Boateng are starters at 25. Mustafi, Durm and Ginter in the squad at age 22, 22, 20.
Midfield: The missing players Benders 25 and Gundogan 23. Oezil 25, Mueller 24, Draxler 20, Kroos 24, Goetze 22, Reus 25, Schuerrle 23.

In England the press celebrates a youth movement, because Sturridge breaks into the starting team at age 24. He has 14 caps.

But that´s really besides the point. There are only good and bad players, not young and old players. That´s what it all comes down to. People talk about the revolution of German football by Klinsmann/Loew, when in reality they just played the younger players, because they were simply much better than the old players.

If there aren´t more young English players starting they are simply not skilled enough or the coaches mis-judge their talent.

 

[.Rossi]

Jesus.......

One good season at Liverpool and all of a sudden, Sturridge is better than Owen ever was, or has the potential to be better than Owen ever was.....

All this despite the fact Sturridge is 24 and Owen was banging them in and doing the business when he was 17...

English fans really do overrate their own (No pun intended)

EDIT: Actually, no. I like that pun so I'm having it

 

[Butty19]

The thing that annoyed me most about the Uruguay game was when Godin elbowed Sturridge in the throat after already been booked. Our players did nothing. If it had been the other way round Suarez and co. would've been round the referee like flies round shit, waving imaginary cards and heavily influencing the referee to make the decision.

I know we think it's not acceptable to lower ourselves to these levels but it's this 'win at all costs' mentality we lack at international level. We are too nice as a team and I hate to agree with Joesph Barton but we got bullied. They kicked us every time we threatened and stopped us building momentum, especially early on in the game.

We dived enough during the game so why not go the full hog and fight fire with fire. It was always going to be hard in South America, especially against South American teams and all their antics.

Nice guys finish last, Suarez is a prime example.

P.s I'm not in England at the moment so don't know if this has been mentioned in the media at all.

 

[Vida5Nick]

Past it? He's 27

He's still the best English keeper and by a massive distance.

Hes overrated by the press and has been hugely error prone, costing england a number of times. And by the best, hes only there because theres no one else close to him, unlike casillas at spain who has de Gea waiting to swoop.

 

[bastip92]

In which world is Sturridge better than Michael Owen?? Owen in his prime was better than Suarez is right now.

 

[Shinji Pads]

The problem with England this WC is that we don't seem to have any awareness or ability to play the game in hand. What I mean by that is that our play/ tactics/ team selection should reflect the opposition that we are playing. The first game was screaming out for a 3 man midfield to disrupt the Italians. Why didn't we put some fierce hard workers in there, like Jones or Milner. We had the attack to cause Italy problems, but weren't solid enough to stop Italy.

We seem to think we are superior in England, that our eleven will out play anyone! Look how fergie used to get results by playing the likes of Phil Neville, jones, o'shea in midfield to disrupt passing sides....win the battles early then you will win the war in the end! Our defense was clearly our weakness, why was it not protected?

 

[slig]

......

great post!

not your footballers are bad, but your football is.

 

[#07]

Hansen's put his two pennies in now

 

[Plugsy]

I think it's more personnel than set up. From top to bottom. Our coaching staff didn't have much if any top-level/continental experience; Ray Lewington for example had one Europa Cup run to his name prior to getting the England job. And there's the people at the top - Trevor Brooking and Howard Wilkinson who the FA for some unknown reason seem to value the opinions of despite their record being absolutely fecking terrible. Brooking may have stepped down now but Wilkinson will still be there, inexplicably spearheading any new development initiative hoping nobody notices he's been doing that to no success whatsoever since the early 90s.

Then you look at the sort of people that become footballers. I mentioned it before but if even TV punditry is even a slight hint of an insight into the difference in the mindset of a typical continental footballer and one born within these aisles - we'r'e fecked. While those from overseas seem to articulate in an insightful, intelligent manner in a second language - the likes of Alan Shearer and Lee Dixon just bleat on endlessly about tired, cliched nonsense. The less about Ian Wright the better. How ITV haven't thought about adding canned laughter to his contributions, I've no idea.

And for me that's perhaps indicative of people who have been exposed to little else but football; specifically the 'get stuck in' 'show some bottle lads' football we seem to revel in. I think you can seek to change that by primarily setting up systems and reciprocal agreements with other Football Associations to send youths to train and fulfil apprenticeships abroad while in the early stages of development so that may hopefully lead to them wishing to move to Spain or Holland or wherever, later on in their careers. I'd also put a much greater emphasis on educational programmes too, so that you can become a footballer and still get a degree in Maths or History if you want. Not that having a degree will make you more tactically aware or a better footballer but I think anything that broadens a player's intellectual horizons or scope cultural knowledge, must be of some use. Get away from the 'Don't ask me anything difficult, I'm just a footballer' stuff.

 

[sammyvine]

How the hell was Sturridge better than Owen

Didn't Owen even win the Balon D or once?

 

[prateik]

Past it? He's 27

He's still the best English keeper and by a massive distance.

I don't think he's past it.. I think he's a good keeper who had a great season a couple of years back and is overrated by some in the media.

But that age argument doesnt work.
Torres was one of the best strikers in the world and then suddenly lost it. Just read today that Kaka is heading to the MLS. There are plenty of examples of players having a few good years and then never being able to reach that level again

 

[Raees]

Horrified to know Hodgeson is still staying. What disturbed me greatly, was the sense of relief that Rooney had scored. feck the fact, we're out the world cup but our golden boy scored and somehow that made it alright... forget the fact that by changing the system that worked really well against Italy, where chances were created to the shower of shit we produced against Uruguay. We didn't look dangerous going forward, it was a plodding display and just the same old same old and for me the two players who contribute most to this poor style of football are messers Rooney and Gerrard. They lack the legs and skill to keep the game moving at speed and yet they formed our spine. I wouldn't mind Rooney as a 9, but as a 10 he's dreadful now, there were times he was just standing still in the first half and not providing an option on the ball.

As for Gerrard, any time our CB's had the ball, I saw no movement from him to make an easy option for them to lay it off too, or carrying the ball into space, he was diabolical. This Henderson-Gerrard axis had disaster written all over it, why Wilshere wasn't played alongside Henderson I'll never know. Then you have the media who believe the solution is that Gerrard passes the 'experienced in midfied' baton on to Frank Lampard upon retirement.

Most of the media seems to think Woy was too naive and overtrusting in youth. We should pick experience if we want to thrive next time.. WTF!!???? our best performers in that Italy game were our youngsters. The three main culprits for our performances, actually make that 4... Baines, Rooney, Gerrard, Jagielka... all of them not good enough at this level, Baines and Rooney still possibly have roles to play as backups but as starters not for me.

For Euro 2016, we need to get rid of the deadwood, (btw I'm so grateful we have LVG.. I can't see him being anything like an England manager in the way Moyes was, we will definitely resolve our midfield issues if not this summer, by January I'm sure of it) and the following areas need to be addressed...

1) Playing style - Commit to an attacking philosophy - no halfway house bullshit, the performance against Italy was so positive... why did we shit ourselves for the second game, so much for this Peters chap.. the players looked petrified and it seemed as if the Rooney hype had got to them instead of focus being on the team.

Press high up the pitch, keep it compact, defend as a team.. no lazy bastards with no energy.. no one should have to be anyones 'legs'... no one should sulk if out of position. Everyone should be able to carry themselves physically.

2) Defence - We can't go back to Terry and Cole, I think they definitely would have been useful here.. experienced defenders are always useful, but experience in midfield is not, especially when the players in question lack legs. Cahill is good enough in my opinion, Jagielka was out of his depth, we need to look for alternatives.. I hope Smalling and Jones progress under LVG and become starters or John Stones keeps improving.

As for full backs, we have potentially two of the best young full backs coming through, Jon Flanagan and Luke Shaw. We need to blood them as soon as possible and get them accustomed to top level football, no point holding them back.. they've excelled in the Premier League, they are both going to be playing for top teams and they're starters, no reason to hold them back.

3) Midfield- We need to find a holding midfielder, a box to box midfielder with the ability to dictate the tempo and we need a creative powerhouse as an attacking midfielder. They don't need to be amazing players, the chemistry/balance and energy has to be right .. they need to be able to keep the ball under pressure and keep shape without it. I genuinely think Wilshere and Barkley are capable of being two of those three spaces. DM is the problem, a key role in international football... Henderson has been hit and miss, tbh I would still give him another try but hopefully another alternative may emerge in the mean time, one thing is for sure.. Milner, Lampard, Gerrard... all have to go.

4) Attack- We need to take Rooney out the attack, he just slows up the play and yes he can score goals.. I never doubted that but is it worth it for the fact he slows up the entire side?? Remember the Ruud situation at Man United? we knew he still had goals in him, but Ronaldo/Saha/Rooney.. they needed space to breathe, they could elevate us to new heights, they were capable of playing at a breathtaking tempo.. Fergie could see this and he acted accordingly. feck he could see it even for the Real Madrid tie, when he dropped Rooney and we saw one of the best performances from United in recent years.. That Madrid team went on to win the CL the next year. If Nani hadn't been sent off, we'd have done them.

The Ox, Sterling and Sturridge... them three can break any defence down, there is no way in terms of talent they are lesser than other International teams, they just need faith and freedom, and no shrek slowing them down. Unleash them.

Hart
Flanagan CB Cahill Shaw
DM Wilshere
Ox-Chamberlain Barkley Sterling
Sturridge​

 

[Raees]

How the hell was Sturridge better than Owen

Didn't Owen even win the Balon D or once?

Owen at his best was on a different planet, his mentality was as world class as it got.. very reliable at the highest level. Ruthless.

 

[.Rossi]

How the hell was Sturridge better than Owen

Didn't Owen even win the Balon D or once?

English fans....Overrating their own...Etc etc

Yano the usual

 

[Gio]

Owen at his best was on a different planet, his mentality was as world class as it got.. very reliable at the highest level. Ruthless.

It's a weird comparison alright. At the same age Sturridge scored his first goal for England, Owen already had 23 international goals and a Ballon D'Or to his name. Owen had lit up a World Cup before Sturridge even netted his first senior goal. And he emerged in a more competitive era for English strikers (Shearer, Sheringham, Fowler, Ferdinand, Cole) compared to the vacuum today. There's a point about Owen being a direct striker whose all-round game wasn't special, but Sturridge - a seriously flawed if talented player - is hardly the best counterpoint to that.

 

[Rafateria]

I'm going to have to disagree. Of course we had enough quality to get through this group. Italy undoubtedly are a quality side, we would have done well to get a point against them.


As for Uruguay, I've mentioned this in another thread but I'll touch upon it again. Lodeiro, the attacking midfielder behind Cavani and Suarez plays for Botafogo in the Brazillian league. The man partnering Godin is 19 with one cap for Atletico Madrid, replacing the injured Lugano who wasn't good enough for West Brom. They have a defensive midfielder playing in the Liga MX. Beyond that some half-decent players and then obviously Cavani & Suarez. Now Cavani is no better than Rooney, worse if we're going off this season. Suarez is pure quality, but he's one player.

If you don't think we have enough quality in a squad including multiple members of the Premier League team of the season, numerous players who challenged for the Premier League title and were key components in that side, Sturridge for example had 21 goals and was second top scorer in the league. Henderson was a key player in that Liverpool side, gaining a lot of praise for his massive improvement. Cahill was an absolute rock for Chelsea, Rooney got an impressive goal/assist tally considering how his team were playing. Gerrard topped the assist charts, other players like Lambert had 13 goals, only 3 less than Giroud who is at a better club yet started for France tonight.

Lallana made the league's team of the season, as did our back up left back Shaw, Gerrard and Cahill. Sterling was another key player for Liverpool, terrorizing numerous Premier League defences.


I'm sick to death of people making out we're some kind of pub side. There are championship level players in that Uruguay starting 11 for god sake, their bench has plodders like Gargano filling it. Our team may not be some kind of star filled dazzlingly brilliant world beaters but its more than good enough to be competitive.

I agree with you otherwise, Roy has totally fecked up this world cup with his total lack of tactical sense. Think about it, we equalized in both games, got ahead of ourselves and conceded on the break two times. That's down to the managerto calm down the players, get us back in to shape, instead we made silly errors and the opponent went up the field and smashed one in. His subs were totally ineffective "Oh, we're losing? Ip dip do, which young player the media likes shall I put on I wonder!", the team lacked any clear identity other than running in to brick walls or chucking in cross after cross.

Gerrard in a two man midfield where he was lost, there is a whole list of errors down to the management that led to our exit. The players themselves honestly weren't that bad bar a few (Jagielka, Gerrard, Baines were all woeful), our attacking play looked relatively promising considering a lack of any midfield or structure.

Pirlo was allowed to do whatever he wanted in the Italy match. When Costa Rica's midfield nullify him far more effectively, you know its not a question of quality. Uruguay barely managed to string together any passes, they looked woeful 90 percent of the time. They scored from their only two shots on target.

He's an idiot. Like Moyes, all he knows how to do is 4-4-2, chuck it in to the big man and to play park the bus. That's why we actually managed to top the groups in the Euro's, getting a draw vs. France, a better team in pretty much every way than Uruguay, as well as taking Italy to penalties and defeating a Zlatan led Sweden.

That's because whilst the direction was the wrong one, at least we HAD a direction. A way of playing, a system in that tournament, one that Hodgson knew how to coach well, its all he knows. We didn't here, thus despite some decent performances we are out. Other sides like Costa Rica and Chile have a system and work extremely hard.

Finally, the motivation. I think we are the least motivated team in the tournament. You look at some teams lining up and their players are in tears at the anthem, Suarez is all over the place after scoring two goals, they are hugging each other, running around like madmen. Our players mumble the anthem. We just don't want it enough I don't think. It's not a British thing, its something unique to our football side. Our other sports teams, as shown by the Olympics, don't lack this desire that other countries show.


We won't get anywhere till Hodgson is gone and a manager with a clear direction on how to play football is brought in and not a "safe option".

Love this post ! Some Mod must make sure it gets a LIKE.

I do disagree with the general consensus on Gerrard/Henderson (not specifically mentioned in this post) however. I think both played decently well (until Gerrard tired so not a reflection of his quality - not surprising for a 33 yo after the season he's just had - in the last 20 mins and should have been subbed), Henderson's stats at least certainly show that. However me being a Liverpool fan and the vast majority here being United fans it's not surprising there is a polarisation of opinion.

The biggest issue IMHO was Owlface playing a 4-3-3 (not 4-4-2 BTW) and leaving us over-powered in MF often with 2 vs 3 or 4. Tactically HodgePodge was out-thought and naive. We have the players to have gone deep in this tournament, what we don't have is the system. Hodgson thinks just pandering to the current media/supporter demands for Sterling etc. and going all out attack is enough. Had we been 4-2-3-1 then this would have given us midfield solidity whilst enabling the likes of Sterling / Sturridge to play to their strengths - going past players with room behind them - and enable players such as Gerrard, Sterling, Rooney, Barkley, Baines to play to their strengths too, especially with regard to threading through defence-splitting passes to our faster players (Welbeck, Sterling and Strurridge).

An opportunity missed but this was always going to be the case with Hodgson in charge. I actually hope CR beat us just so Dyke has overwhelming pressure to change his mind about retaining Hodgson through 2016.