England at World Cup 2014
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
He has a huge ego, so I think he could be tempted. He'd be my ideal choice but yeah it's pretty unlikely. Not sure who else we can go for?
Above lies the truth. Not much competition for Hart. But agree with everything else.
That's a scary thought for England fans, myself included. It's a good job Ed Woodward doesn't share the same idea as Gary Neville or we would be screwed.
Toddler?
Is that true? Seemed to me that most people on here thought we wouldn't get out of the group (me included).
The sensible England fans weren't expecting anything special.
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I think England do have some quality. We most definitely are overhyped. We certainly aren't condenders to win it and won't be for a very long time but we are and were good enough as a group of individuals, on paper, to get out of the group. I'm sure Italy and Uruguay think the same about their sides.
Rooney, for me, is still a very good player. Sturridge is also a very decent striker. The defence is questionable. I think Cahill is more than good enough for England but Jagielka isn't. I like Baines but Cole should have gone and so should Terry. I'm all for bringing in young talent but not when it isn't better than what we already have and those two have rarely let England down. In fact, Ashley Cole is probably the only player since the start of this century that can honestly say he was in the top 3 or so players in the world in his position.
I do agree that we should learn from this, finally. No more saying we need to change and then playing Lampard and Gerrard for the millionth time. No more saying we should change and then playing 4-4-2. We need a proper change in every avenue of this team and football in England in general.
No one.
The English coach who finished highest in the PL was Tim Sherwood.
His values include playing with "Passion, spirit, guts and character"..........You lot are in the shitter I'm afraid
I truly believe Barkley would of got us a win against either Italy or Uaraguay if he started but Hodgsons a big shithouse.
This is the reason why England lost yesterday:
I would have dropped Welbeck against Uruguay (sorry Danny!) and played Barkley from the start. Midfield was a bit light.
Wow. Once losing in ingrained in a squad it's hard to turn it around. That's pretty bizarre though, if true
Woy's now got the chance to give some of the youngsters who haven't played yet, or have hardly done so, some game time:
Forster
Milner Smalling Cahill Shaw
Jones Wilshire
Oxlaide-Chamb Barclay Lallana
Rooney
Forster
Milner Smalling Cahill Shaw
Jones Wilshire
Oxlaide-Chamb Barclay Lallana
Rooney
One problem that England seems to have is their sense of identity on the pitch, and how they should play. Watching the last two matches I had no idea how they were trying to score.
If Sturridge and Rooney are your top men then have players that will complement that attack. Sterling while being effective didn't seem to be linking up well enough centrally, he kept trying to do too much by himself.
The fullbacks and wings weren't linking together in attack well and defensively weren't covering each other enough except for short stretches during the game.
The midfield didn't link the overall attack well either, too often the wingers and the forwards were having to come and get the ball too often, and they didn't cover for the back four well either.
The CB's didn't complement each other either, they both seemed like the same type of players. They gave too much space for the opposing teams.
There isn't a balance or cohesion/organization in the team at all and almost no sense of identity.
If Sturridge and Rooney are your top men then have players that will complement that attack. Sterling while being effective didn't seem to be linking up well enough centrally, he kept trying to do too much by himself.
The fullbacks and wings weren't linking together in attack well and defensively weren't covering each other enough except for short stretches during the game.
The midfield didn't link the overall attack well either, too often the wingers and the forwards were having to come and get the ball too often, and they didn't cover for the back four well either.
The CB's didn't complement each other either, they both seemed like the same type of players. They gave too much space for the opposing teams.
There isn't a balance or cohesion/organization in the team at all and almost no sense of identity.
Why? Barkley was terrible in both games when he came on.
ive said it before, hodgson and moyes are one and the same. fear of failure, lower expectations and have no idea when your castle crumbles before you
Hodges 2 defensive midfielders sound exactly like what Carrick and cleverly were instructed to this season; never be ahead of the ball, 60 yard diagonal long balls etc
You can see negatives in anything if you look hard enough. I see no problem in Lampard and Gerrard telling the other guys how painful is to exit World Cup, and no reason to believe it would impact them negatively.
You act like two players, the Captain and another weren't there. Far worse, IMO.
He could have been terrible again, admittedly. But having just Gerrard and Henderson in the centre in a game we couldn't afford to lose seemed a bit optimistic.
He's going to leave a title challenging Liverpool side that he's got playing his way for England?
Hmm ok.
That's the worst thing about it for me. Although I didn't have any expectations, they managed to disappoint me. They overachieved in underachievment.
pile in the excuses....
I mean we were a little unfortunate but at the end of the day we didn't go through because of of moments of defensive stupidity and lacking a clinical edge. We got further in 2010, but we had Algeria, USA & Slovenia in our group. I believe we performed better this time, not that it was hard and we have some promising areas but unfortunately, there are also some glaring weaknesses in certain positions.
You don't think Uruguay got lucky not having their best defender sent off? England were poor but that was a big decision.
It might already be posted but this article from Daniel Taylor is very good.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/20/england-brazil-entourage-world-cup-2014
72 support staff, including tailor made sports drinks based on the sweat patterns of each player. I think off the pitch England are always one of the best prepared sides yet constantly on the pitch they are outperformed by nations that have a fraction of the budget and infrastructure.
The problem has and always will be with the players. Not winter breaks, or too many foreign players and coaches or seemingly the other excuses that get trot out after every major tournament.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/20/england-brazil-entourage-world-cup-2014
72 support staff, including tailor made sports drinks based on the sweat patterns of each player. I think off the pitch England are always one of the best prepared sides yet constantly on the pitch they are outperformed by nations that have a fraction of the budget and infrastructure.
The problem has and always will be with the players. Not winter breaks, or too many foreign players and coaches or seemingly the other excuses that get trot out after every major tournament.
This post could have been posted after any of our recent tournaments really. Nothing's changed and nothing will.
We need to completely tear apart the root cause of the problem, the so called experienced players and it's conveyor belt of losers. Young players like Sterling, Barkley, Sturridge, Wilshire already have their first stars on the journey to become the next set.
sadly we won't
The players aren't technically good enough, they come into tournaments physically and mentally tired after long seasons, players are overrated leading to false optimism and they never form an effective team.
Man for man we are better than some teams in this tournament, but you still know that England stand a good chance of getting beat.
Man for man we are better than some teams in this tournament, but you still know that England stand a good chance of getting beat.
Seems we prepared for everything but the football.
May as well play some different players against Costa Rica then:
-------------------------FORSTER---------------------------
MILNER---------JONES--------------SMALLING----------SHAW
--------------HENDERSON----------WILSHERE----------------
STERLING------------------BARKLEY-----------------------OX
---------------------------ROONEY--------------------------
I put Rooney up front instead of Sturridge and Welbz because he's one of the oly ones to come from the games with his head held high, but at the same time being eliminated I don't know whether I should withstand him from this BS game and actually rest him as a reward, I dno.
Ironically I bet this will be the team we beat, the team who are undefeated and beat both teams we could not, we will now beat when it doesn't matter to us.
I can already see it now though, because of the media and his high profile, even though Rooney was one o the only ones to come out of this fiasco with any credit he will be the one that gets booed around the grounds next season... you watch..
-------------------------FORSTER---------------------------
MILNER---------JONES--------------SMALLING----------SHAW
--------------HENDERSON----------WILSHERE----------------
STERLING------------------BARKLEY-----------------------OX
---------------------------ROONEY--------------------------
I put Rooney up front instead of Sturridge and Welbz because he's one of the oly ones to come from the games with his head held high, but at the same time being eliminated I don't know whether I should withstand him from this BS game and actually rest him as a reward, I dno.
Ironically I bet this will be the team we beat, the team who are undefeated and beat both teams we could not, we will now beat when it doesn't matter to us.
I can already see it now though, because of the media and his high profile, even though Rooney was one o the only ones to come out of this fiasco with any credit he will be the one that gets booed around the grounds next season... you watch..
they come as premiership superstars, who get found out against 'relative' nobodies who are now comfortable on the ball and appear to be able to follow a gameplan
Luck, luck luck ... It's luck every time!!!
Why don't they hire a voodoo master or something???
Why don't they hire a voodoo master or something???
this reminds me a few weeks ago, that mouthy dutch coach was on talksport. one thing of worth he said English football is driven by sport science, and not coaching. this would add weight to that
kind of like an average musician who buys all the latest expensive gear in a bid to sound great, but is still an average musician
engerlands problem isnt the manager, its not the players, not the formation, philosophy or tactics.
the problem is the mentality. every man and his dog is more focused, motivated and proud while having a walk compared to our so called three lions.
the problem is the mentality. every man and his dog is more focused, motivated and proud while having a walk compared to our so called three lions.
I'm going to have to disagree. Of course we had enough quality to get through this group. Italy undoubtedly are a quality side, we would have done well to get a point against them.
As for Uruguay, I've mentioned this in another thread but I'll touch upon it again. Lodeiro, the attacking midfielder behind Cavani and Suarez plays for Botafogo in the Brazillian league. The man partnering Godin is 19 with one cap for Atletico Madrid, replacing the injured Lugano who wasn't good enough for West Brom. They have a defensive midfielder playing in the Liga MX. Beyond that some half-decent players and then obviously Cavani & Suarez. Now Cavani is no better than Rooney, worse if we're going off this season. Suarez is pure quality, but he's one player.
If you don't think we have enough quality in a squad including multiple members of the Premier League team of the season, numerous players who challenged for the Premier League title and were key components in that side, Sturridge for example had 21 goals and was second top scorer in the league. Henderson was a key player in that Liverpool side, gaining a lot of praise for his massive improvement. Cahill was an absolute rock for Chelsea, Rooney got an impressive goal/assist tally considering how his team were playing. Gerrard topped the assist charts, other players like Lambert had 13 goals, only 3 less than Giroud who is at a better club yet started for France tonight.
Lallana made the league's team of the season, as did our back up left back Shaw, Gerrard and Cahill. Sterling was another key player for Liverpool, terrorizing numerous Premier League defences.
I'm sick to death of people making out we're some kind of pub side. There are championship level players in that Uruguay starting 11 for god sake, their bench has plodders like Gargano filling it. Our team may not be some kind of star filled dazzlingly brilliant world beaters but its more than good enough to be competitive.
I agree with you otherwise, Roy has totally fecked up this world cup with his total lack of tactical sense. Think about it, we equalized in both games, got ahead of ourselves and conceded on the break two times. That's down to the managerto calm down the players, get us back in to shape, instead we made silly errors and the opponent went up the field and smashed one in. His subs were totally ineffective "Oh, we're losing? Ip dip do, which young player the media likes shall I put on I wonder!", the team lacked any clear identity other than running in to brick walls or chucking in cross after cross.
Gerrard in a two man midfield where he was lost, there is a whole list of errors down to the management that led to our exit. The players themselves honestly weren't that bad bar a few (Jagielka, Gerrard, Baines were all woeful), our attacking play looked relatively promising considering a lack of any midfield or structure.
Pirlo was allowed to do whatever he wanted in the Italy match. When Costa Rica's midfield nullify him far more effectively, you know its not a question of quality. Uruguay barely managed to string together any passes, they looked woeful 90 percent of the time. They scored from their only two shots on target.
He's an idiot. Like Moyes, all he knows how to do is 4-4-2, chuck it in to the big man and to play park the bus. That's why we actually managed to top the groups in the Euro's, getting a draw vs. France, a better team in pretty much every way than Uruguay, as well as taking Italy to penalties and defeating a Zlatan led Sweden.
That's because whilst the direction was the wrong one, at least we HAD a direction. A way of playing, a system in that tournament, one that Hodgson knew how to coach well, its all he knows. We didn't here, thus despite some decent performances we are out. Other sides like Costa Rica and Chile have a system and work extremely hard.
Finally, the motivation. I think we are the least motivated team in the tournament. You look at some teams lining up and their players are in tears at the anthem, Suarez is all over the place after scoring two goals, they are hugging each other, running around like madmen. Our players mumble the anthem. We just don't want it enough I don't think. It's not a British thing, its something unique to our football side. Our other sports teams, as shown by the Olympics, don't lack this desire that other countries show.
We won't get anywhere till Hodgson is gone and a manager with a clear direction on how to play football is brought in and not a "safe option".
I wonder who was banging that Brazilian chick at the hotel....
Glad that we had great sports drinks. Don't want to imagine when the cramps against Italy would've kicked in without them...
Having the worst national anthem in the tournament doesn't help with the whole motivation thing. That dreadful " God save the Queen" is more likely to send someone to sleep.
great post