Empty Old Trafford

Sky1981 said:
How bout you lot start booing those players not worthy to wear the shirt for a start?
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Booing the players for not being good enough? If they aren't good enough to do the job then it's the club at fault not them. They can't turn into world beaters just because we don't like the situation.

Glazers and the board are the ones who need booing. A lot of these players aren't very good but that's not their fault. They can't help that fact.
 
I bought my ticket on Sunday, but it was a one-off rather than a season ticket. so I take the point, that I haven't got as much skin in the game at this point than a ST holder this year, but I have been a ST holder for many years, and have supported the club, all my life, since the 1980's.

I think it's the point of principle that I wouldn't buy another ticket this season. There comes a point where you have to say, 'Ive seen enough', and a change in ownership is fundamental to the longevity and relevance of the club - whether you wish to admit it or not, the club are on a massive downward spiral, both on and off the field.

The Glazers saddled nearly £600m of debt against the club to buy us, they haven't got a clue about football, and have allowed the mis-management of the club to go on for over a decade in the Ed Woodward era. They thought Utd are a commercial juggernaut, and results on the pitch won't impact the business model. Guess what it is starting to do just that, and then Covid hit..

All of a sudden we are just about up to the same level of debt as were in 2003 when the takeover happened, so nearly £2bn has gone out of the club, in debt repayments, dividends, transfers - all the club's money NOT the Glazers money, and what do we have to show for it - the same level of debt, a squad that is clearly the weakest in our premier league history, and a stadium that is rotting in front of our eyes. The accountants amongst us, will tell you the debt is perfectly serviceable, but the wider concern for me, is that sponsorship demand is starting to go the other way just this week, we have seen a principal sponsor announce they have taken the decision not to renew, in 4 years time ! The club has reached a tipping point where revenue has plateau'd and debt is as high as it's ever been.

Add to this, there is a now a whole generation of people who think that Man City are a better/bigger club than Utd, which has wider implications, like first dibs on recruitment of talent including local talent - Do kids dream about playing for Utd to the same extent that my generation did, or do they dream about playing for City instead, it's a problem, and it all has a knock on effect.

I was so depressed watching Utd last year, its the closest thing I have got to a religion, and was willing to believe than they had finally got us on a right footing with the EtH appointment and football men doing the recruitment side, but we gone into the season woefully short in the squad, chasing a player who doesn't want to come, and allowing an ageing superstar free reign on when he turns up to training - they don't learn

Then the defeat, then revert to type and panic - Arnautovic and to a lesser extent Rabiot really come on ffs.. Where is the sporting plan, on recruitment - it doesn't exist - they have learned nothing.

We need to show our discontent, empty seats are absolutely needed, because whether they have banked the revenue or not, they will have an impact, and concern for the owners, cancelled subscriptions the lot.. They make commercial first decisions, so it stands to reason, that the only way to get them out of the club is by hitting their pocket.

Hated, adored, never ignored - load of bollocks, we are heading into irrelevance.. I dont want to see that - do you?
 
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TSop said:
Think the government have other things to worry about rather than a few united fans who are upset becuae you can sign any good players
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Yeah because that's a good description of the current situation.

Let me educate you: the Government isn't just one man in a room making decisions, there's such thing as a minister for sport who's responsibility is ensuring the best conditions for sport within the country. Our leading sport is Football... our biggest team is MUFC. It's not lunacy to suggest it would be of interest (and would be proper) for the Government to step in and correct the issue.

Not to mention MUFC is a major tourism draw and a national institution with endless historical significance.
 
JB7 said:
Of course they have.

A timeline of Manchester United fan protests against the Glazers - United In Focus
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The timeline’s interesting.

A lot of (understandable) protest before the takeover and for a short while afterwards (which coincided with a lot of discontent about results on the pitch)

Then they have the LUHG sticker campaign in 2006, then… nothing until 2010, after Ronaldo was sold and replaced by Obertan, Owen and Valencia.

It would be nice to think that these protests were completely disconnected from performances on the pitch and in the transfer market but this timeline doesn’t really help support that argument
 
Can't this be saved for another game, any game other than the scousers? Requires a lot more planning than this half baked proposal and I'd rather have a roaring Old Trafford to try and get a result against those cnuts.
 
It's not happening chaps. No proper fan group behind it, no nothing.

Twitter talk.
 
They mean well so fair play but they could sell the ground out 3+ times, they’ll always be people entering the stadium

People bought tickets ages ago and have planned trips from all over the world, they aren't going to listen to a twitter campaign.
 
MUFC OK said:
Can't this be saved for another game, any game other than the scousers? Requires a lot more planning than this half baked proposal and I'd rather have a roaring Old Trafford to try and get a result against those cnuts.
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I get the logic but the argument could be made what is this rivalry worth if our club is nothing?
Biggest game fixture every season, make the impact whilst the world is watching and get some steam behind the movement.

The Scousers dicked us 5-0 last season with a packed stadium, the atmosphere won't save us from another mauling.
 
I don't think we should do this. Erik Ten Hag has just arrived here. We'd completely undermine whatever plans he has and create an even worse atmosphere around the club. Attracting top players would become even more difficult than it is now.

Keep the heat on the Glazers on all social media and force serious news media to talk about their incompetent stewardship of the club.
 
RoyH1 said:
Keep the heat on the Glazers on all social media and force serious news media to talk about their incompetent stewardship of the club.
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Social media will make no difference.
 
The main people starting this movement are not fans who go to games at all so quite easy for them to call for this when they will still watch the game on TV, then they can still call fans out for not doing so with the fanbase becoming even more fractured.

As an ST holder I'll say it won't happen part of the terms of the ST is that you can't just sack games off as you'll be in breach I am not sure of the threshold for that but it is in there.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The timeline’s interesting.

A lot of (understandable) protest before the takeover and for a short while afterwards (which coincided with a lot of discontent about results on the pitch)

Then they have the LUHG sticker campaign in 2006, then… nothing until 2010, after Ronaldo was sold and replaced by Obertan, Owen and Valencia.

It would be nice to think that these protests were completely disconnected from performances on the pitch and in the transfer market but this timeline doesn’t really help support that argument
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In fairness the timeline is very much bullet points of the main times the protests came to a head, but they were always there even in 2008 when we were winning the Champions League there were elements of protest - FC United were still getting over 3000 a game at that stage too so I think it's important to note the sheer number of people that were part of the protest during that period of success for Manchester United but in a different manner - I don't think it's possible to overestimate that as a protest, but obviously the issue came where they were immediately replaced by new season ticket holders who were enjoying the success so their absence wasn't noticed so much.

The issue after the initial 5/6 years was that it both ran out of steam and it became apparent that the Glazers just didn't care. They stopped attending Old Trafford for a long time due to the protests and just sat back counting the money and the feeling was very much that none of the protests were making any difference. The Super League being scrapped, getting the Liverpool game postponed, amongst other smaller things have given people hope for the the first time in years that their actions can actually make a difference which is a large part of why the protests are building again.
 
Gavinb33 said:
The main people starting this movement are not fans who go to games at all so quite easy for them to call for this when they will still watch the game on TV.

As an ST holder I'll say it won't happen part of the terms of the ST is that you can't just sack games off as you'll be in breach I am not sure of the threshold for that but it is in there.
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Has to be used for at least 10 of the 19 games. Sneaky way for them to get ahead of these types of protests really.
 
JB7 said:
In fairness the timeline is very much bullet points of the main times the protests came to a head, but they were always there even in 2008 when we were winning the Champions League there were elements of protest - FC United were still getting over 3000 a game at that stage too so I think it's important to note the sheer number of people that were part of the protest during that period of success for Manchester United but in a different manner - I don't think it's possible to overestimate that as a protest, but obviously the issue came where they were immediately replaced by new season ticket holders who were enjoying the success so their absence wasn't noticed so much.

The issue after the initial 5/6 years was that it both ran out of steam and it became apparent that the Glazers just didn't care. They stopped attending Old Trafford for a long time due to the protests and just sat back counting the money and the feeling was very much that none of the protests were making any difference. The Super League being scrapped, getting the Liverpool game being postponed, amongst other smaller things have given people hope for the the first time in years that their actions can actually make a difference which is a large part of why the protests are building again.
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Nicely put.
 
Ultimately in a cost of living crisis people would rather sell their ticket than empty old trafford. For the scousers you could get a good price for your ticket.
 
SuperiorXI said:
Yeah because that's a good description of the current situation.

Let me educate you: the Government isn't just one man in a room making decisions, there's such thing as a minister for sport who's responsibility is ensuring the best conditions for sport within the country. Our leading sport is Football... our biggest team is MUFC. It's not lunacy to suggest it would be of interest (and would be proper) for the Government to step in and correct the issue.

Not to mention MUFC is a major tourism draw and a national institution with endless historical significance.
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It's not lunacy to suggest it would be of interest (and would be proper) for the Government to step in and correct the issue.


Yes that would be Lunacy.....
 
Milan did it and got their previous owners removed. I think it will take something truly radical and sustained to force their hand even in the slightest. Plus, although there are some arguments against it being for this game, we know it will be televised across the world, and an empty stadium, or huge chunks of the ground being empty will make headlines worldwide.

The biggest question has always been whether someone has the money. Up until the sale of Chelsea I'd have said there is no option out there, but there were a number of buyer lining up for a cost of up to £4billion (I am unsure if that was the total sale value when completed, but that was a widely reported figure at the time), so there would be interest and not necessarily from just Saudi or China.

We all know its the Glazers ripping money out of the club which could otherwise have been invested. The structure of their buyout is actually an illegal model in the USA (for sports teams at least). We have to be rid of them and the sooner the better.
 
Andy_Cole said:
You’re right about ‘true fans’. But on here there’s just the usual Twitter fans who criticise on anything and everything just to get a rise out of people. What’s the term? Trolls.

Also I’d like to separate myself from the fans who racially abuse our players etc. So yeh maybe ‘true’ isn’t the right word. Maybe cnuty fans.
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Fair enough
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Booing the players for not being good enough? If they aren't good enough to do the job then it's the club at fault not them. They can't turn into world beaters just because we don't like the situation.

Glazers and the board are the ones who need booing. A lot of these players aren't very good but that's not their fault. They can't help that fact.
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They're good enough. They just dont give a feck.

Tell me 250k a week player who fails at basic is not good enough
 
Gavinb33 said:
The main people starting this movement are not fans who go to games at all so quite easy for them to call for this when they will still watch the game on TV, then they can still call fans out for not doing so with the fanbase becoming even more fractured.

As an ST holder I'll say it won't happen part of the terms of the ST is that you can't just sack games off as you'll be in breach I am not sure of the threshold for that but it is in there.
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You can go in and leave as a walkout. You have used the ST
 
Match Day revenue is our lowest source of income, it would make a blind bit of difference to the Glazer really. You'd need to take down every sponsor , cancel Sky - even then it's marginal because non-United fans wouldn't stop.

There is very little reason that the Glazers will sell this cash cow. Personal reputation matters little to them.
 
 
JB7 said:
In fairness the timeline is very much bullet points of the main times the protests came to a head, but they were always there even in 2008 when we were winning the Champions League there were elements of protest - FC United were still getting over 3000 a game at that stage too so I think it's important to note the sheer number of people that were part of the protest during that period of success for Manchester United but in a different manner - I don't think it's possible to overestimate that as a protest, but obviously the issue came where they were immediately replaced by new season ticket holders who were enjoying the success so their absence wasn't noticed so much.

The issue after the initial 5/6 years was that it both ran out of steam and it became apparent that the Glazers just didn't care. They stopped attending Old Trafford for a long time due to the protests and just sat back counting the money and the feeling was very much that none of the protests were making any difference. The Super League being scrapped, getting the Liverpool game postponed, amongst other smaller things have given people hope for the the first time in years that their actions can actually make a difference which is a large part of why the protests are building again.
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The protests have always been a mixed bag. The FC United gang were protesting against the Glazers but their discontent was also fuelled by the way football had changed over the previous couple of decades, irrespective of the owners of MUFC. The commodification of the sport they love and the way the club had become more of a global brand and not part of a local community. They realised you couldn’t put that genie back in the bottle, so FC United was the perfect response.

From that point on you had a far more diverse bunch of unhappy fans. The vast majority of whom only reach boiling point during periods when we were doing poorly on the pitch and unable to match the spending of our rivals, then fading into the background if the club is winning trophies (or there’s any sort of sense of optimism about where we’re heading). This latest outburst fits that pattern.
 
It strikes me as an incredibly odd argument that protests are related to results and performance and therefore bad, and that fans are fickle if they protest after a loss.

Of course they're connected to bloody performance, we're a football club. We've been mismanaged for 20 odd years, saved for a period by the remnants of a good Fergie squad and then by his genius.

Once that well ran dry, we have been left with the owners apathy, underinvestment in key infrastructure and horrendous strategic direction. This has culminated in a squad that is totally unsuitable and facilities that have been run into the ground.

Performance is the culmination of every decision the Glazer's have made over a sustained period. It did not just appear from thin air, it is not just a reflection of one new transfer window, or a new manager. If you're not going to protest about the sporting shambles that we are which adequately sums up the nature of the Glazer ownership what exactly are we going to protest about?
 
RedMilo said:
I bought my ticket on Sunday, but it was a one-off rather than a season ticket. so I take the point, that I haven't got as much skin in the game at this point than a ST holder this year, but I have been a ST holder for many years, and have supported the club, all my life, since the 1980's.

I think it's the point of principle that I wouldn't buy another ticket this season. There comes a point where you have to say, 'Ive seen enough', and a change in ownership is fundamental to the longevity and relevance of the club - whether you wish to admit it or not, the club are on a massive downward spiral, both on and off the field.

The Glazers saddled nearly £600m of debt against the club to buy us, they haven't got a clue about football, and have allowed the mis-management of the club to go on for over a decade in the Ed Woodward era. They thought Utd are a commercial juggernaut, and results on the pitch won't impact the business model. Guess what it is starting to do just that, and then Covid hit..

All of a sudden we are just about up to the same level of debt as were in 2003 when the takeover happened, so nearly £2bn has gone out of the club, in debt repayments, dividends, transfers - all the club's money NOT the Glazers money, and what do we have to show for it - the same level of debt, a squad that is clearly the weakest in our premier league history, and a stadium that is rotting in front of our eyes. The accountants amongst us, will tell you the debt is perfectly serviceable, but the wider concern for me, is that sponsorship demand is starting to go the other way just this week, we have seen a principal sponsor announce they have taken the decision not to renew, in 4 years time ! The club has reached a tipping point where revenue has plateau'd and debt is as high as it's ever been.

Add to this, there is a now a whole generation of people who think that Man City are a better/bigger club than Utd, which has wider implications, like first dibs on recruitment of talent including local talent - Do kids dream about playing for Utd to the same extent that my generation did, or do they dream about playing for City instead, it's a problem, and it all has a knock on effect.

I was so depressed watching Utd last year, its the closest thing I have got to a religion, and was willing to believe than they had finally got us on a right footing with the EtH appointment and football men doing the recruitment side, but we gone into the season woefully short in the squad, chasing a player who doesn't want to come, and allowing an ageing superstar free reign on when he turns up to training - they don't learn

Then the defeat, then revert to type and panic - Arnautovic and to a lesser extent Rabiot really come on ffs.. Where is the sporting plan, on recruitment - it doesn't exist - they have learned nothing.

We need to show our discontent, empty seats are absolutely needed, because whether they have banked the revenue or not, they will have an impact, and concern for the owners, cancelled subscriptions the lot.. They make commercial first decisions, so it stands to reason, that the only way to get them out of the club is by hitting their pocket.

Hated, adored, never ignored - load of bollocks, we are heading into irrelevance.. I dont want to see that - do you?
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Good post.
 
An empty stadium works due to optics. Since United are a big brand, OT consistently being sold out contrasted to an empty OT would be visually jarring.

It would cause sponsors who help generate revenue for the club to question their investment. There would just need to be consistently empty home matches.

AC Milan fans for years didn’t show up to San Siro and eventually Berlusconi sold.
 
clarkydaz said:
when everyone is singing Glazers out and banners? Everyone knows where the resentment is
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What is the resentment? That the Glazers aren't managing the club well enough to suit the fans? After 1 game with the new manager in charge? Or something something something leveraged buyout 17 years ago....
Well, the Glazers should have gone with Conte. ETH was too much of a risk, too unknown, too green. All that talk of giving the manager time was just that -- talk. It disappeared when the first goal was scored.
 
Fans do have some influence to drive out the owners but the concern is that most match going fans are so sentimental they won't do what's required. If United had a good transfer window you wouldn't hear anything about protest and that's the issue it's reactionary as opposed to being proactive.
 
Carl said:
They can't sell tickets that are already sold. So if ST holders didn't go there's nothing the club could do to fill the stadium.
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True, I don’t even know what percentage of the ground are ST holders.
 
The players who are mostly short of confidence need full support from the fans - so anything like that seems very stupid atm. and I hope they fail big time.
 
JuriM said:
The players who are mostly short of confidence need full support from the fans - so anything like that seems very stupid atm. and I hope they fail big time.
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It doesn't matter how much support the team gets, you think just because you start cheering on McTominay he's gonna become a world class player, no, the players aren't good enough, Utd need major investment.
 
Matthew84! said:
It doesn't matter how much support the team gets, you think just because you start cheering on McTominay he's gonna become a world class player, no, the players aren't good enough, Utd need major investment.
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No no no, you are obviously right that we need investment and we need to add quality to midfield and so. But we ain't getting that all done before this weekend's game and the players who we field this weekend still need full support to get the result.
, any
IMO it's the weirdest thing ever to hope "your team" to "lose" or get a bad result in the hope of a change, we can't afford to lose points that way. If you want a change, there is many different ways to show that and which won't hurt the club's performance or results on the field.
 
UnitedSofa said:
Are we seriously considering cutting our own nose of to spite our face?
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Yes, of course we are famous (around the world) for threatening this... 'don't go to the matches', don't buy the shirts, walk up and down outside OT with placards, I first heard this kind of thing after Busby stepped down, then when Sexton was inventing the 'crab style'/watching paint dry football; when Edwards sold Hughes to Barcelona (three weeks in to the new season) but saying he wouldn't leave until the last match; When Moye's was going down the plug-hole, when we were threatened with Jose as manager, etc. etc...
but guess what, our nose is still fixed!

Not called the 'Theatre of Dreams' for nothing!!
 
Utd7 said:
AC Milan fans for years didn’t show up to San Siro and eventually Berlusconi sold.
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Have you got any stats for this. Had a look online and there doesn’t seem to be a noticeable difference in attendance. The highest attendance were with Berlusconi and since the change of ownership there’s hasn’t been a dramatic rise.

The lack of fans seem to be a more general trend in Italy(Which is most likely down to the poor state of the economy).
 
Dec9003 said:
I think that it’s a good idea in theory, but impossible to organise in practice. I find a lot of the protests and marches funny when they end in going into the match.

Old Trafford will always be packed, when we played against Brighton loads had the new shirt on as well, I doubt we’ll ever be rid of the glazers.
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I personally bought the white hoodie from pre season... Sorry I couldn't help it :nervous:
 
steffyr2 said:
What is the resentment? That the Glazers aren't managing the club well enough to suit the fans? After 1 game with the new manager in charge? Or something something something leveraged buyout 17 years ago....
Well, the Glazers should have gone with Conte. ETH was too much of a risk, too unknown, too green. All that talk of giving the manager time was just that -- talk. It disappeared when the first goal was scored.
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if you think protests would in any way be aimed at a new manger you would be in a distinct minority
 
I feel kind of torn, ETH deserves to be supported by us but the owners and the people running this circus need to be held accountable for this mess.. Rabiot and Arnautovic come on.
 
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