Emma Watson on Feminism

[MJJ]

You could, but I'd actually be able to point to the majority of black people not stealing. Whereas you can't point to the majority of the world not being sexist.

please provide me the stats showing that the majority of blaks aren't thieves then.

 

[The Mitcher]

I'm not sure what you're saying then. If you think the majority of the world isn't sexist, why don't you actually make an argument for that?

I was following what Emma Watson said, who didn't really say what she meant. Did she mean men of the world or men of certaim parts of the world? I can sort of agree that perhaps in the world there are more sexist men, but define sexism. What makes them sexist?

 

[Silva]

Just copy and paste the sentence where it says that man get paid more than women for doing the exact same job.

I glanced at that link very briefly and it actually said women got paid more for part time jobs. From page 10:

On the other hand, the situation for part-time workers emerged to be somewhat different. While the raw gap was assessed to be just under 6 per cent, this increased to 10 per cent when differences in various personal and employment attributes were taken into account. This result suggests that, based on their characteristics, part-time females should, in fact, earn slightly more than their male counterparts.

To be honest, I only read the summary because the stats go completely over my head. But it does say this; PT females should actually be earning more that PT males.

Although, double checking it, it does say they do get paid slightly more than the more they should get paid. Soz

for full time work:
The results are
broadly comparable to those for the all worker sample, with a raw differential of 17.6
per cent falling to an adjusted differential of 6.9 per cent when account is taken for
differences in observable characteristics.

 

[Silva]

I was following what Emma Watson said, who didn't really say what she meant. Did she mean men of the world or men of certaim parts of the world? I can sort of agree that perhaps in the world there are more sexist men, but define sexism. What makes them sexist?

Someone who is prejudiced towards people because of their gender.

 

[The Mitcher]

Someone who is prejudiced towards people because of their gender.

That's the dictionary definition, what is making THEM sexist, are the even aware they are being sexist?

 

[Silva]

please provide me the stats showing that the majority of blaks aren't thieves then.

No.

 

[Silva]

That's the dictionary definition, what is making THEM sexist, are the even aware they are being sexist?

Am I supposed to tell the dictionary to feck off? Treatment men and women differently.

And what? Weren't you saying that there's already enough awareness about sexism out there?

 

[adexkola]

From the report that @Silva posted. I've always been interested in studies showing disparities in wage gaps between genders (and other social categories). This paragraph sticks out.

The adjusted wage gap, i.e. the proportion of the raw wage gap that remains unexplained by the variation in observable characteristics between males and females, may, to some extent, reflect discrimination. However, one cannot simply assume that the entire unexplained component of the gap relates to pay discrimination, as all other factors that potentially influence the gap may not be fully captured in the available data. In addition, discrimination may influence the explained component of the wage gap where it shapes the distribution of the observable characteristics between men and women. Thus while discrimination may well be a factor, its relative weight remains unknown.

 

[The Mitcher]

Am I supposed to tell the dictionary to feck off? Treatment men and women differently.

And what? Weren't you saying that there's already enough awareness about sexism out there?

No, and you aren't answering my question.

 

[Conrad]

Just copy and paste the sentence where it says that man get paid more than women for doing the exact same job.

I glanced at that link very briefly and it actually said women got paid more for part time jobs. From page 10:

On the other hand, the situation for part-time workers emerged to be somewhat different. While the raw gap was assessed to be just under 6 per cent, this increased to 10 per cent when differences in various personal and employment attributes were taken into account. This result suggests that, based on their characteristics, part-time females should, in fact, earn slightly more than their male counterparts.

I could be wrong here but doesn't that paragraph say that woman should be paid more based on their relative attributes not that they are. Which sort of suggests they aren't being paid more.

I'm still trying to figure out how Anita Sarkeesian is related to the black panthers.

 

[Silva]

No, and you aren't answering my question.

Trying rewording it because I think I have.

 

[The Mitcher]

I could be wrong here but doesn't that paragraph say that woman should be paid more based on their relative attributes. Which suggests they aren't being paid more.

I'm still trying to figure out how Anita Sarkeesian is related to the black panthers.

We aren't saying that, Mockney asked me who are today's feminists equivalents. The best I could come up with is Sarkeesian and her ilk.

 

[MJJ]

No.

Thought so.

 

[Lynk]

Social Justice Warriors everywhere.

 

[Silva]

Thought so.

Are you actually suggesting most black people are thieves?

 

[acnumber9]

To be honest, I only read the summary because the stats go completely over my head. But it does say this; PT females should actually be earning more that PT males.

Although, double checking it, it does say they do get paid slightly more than the more they should get paid. Soz

for full time work:
The results are
broadly comparable to those for the all worker sample, with a raw differential of 17.6
per cent falling to an adjusted differential of 6.9 per cent when account is taken for
differences in observable characteristics.

The problem with those kind of surveys is that they just take total earnings and adjust for differences in qualifications etc that could explain why men earn more. The reason women combined earn more than men combined from part time work is because more women work part time. They don't earn more or less for doing the same job. I've never worked anywhere that's happened. Have you? It simply doesn't happen for low level jobs in places like the UK or Republic of Ireland like you've suggested.

I don't doubt a problem exists when it comes to women getting promoted to certain levels. That would account for a lot of disparity. I would like to think that with future generations that this will improve.

 

[Mockney]

Social Justice Warriors everywhere.

Yeah, feck social justice!

 

[Aboutreika18]

Surprised it took until the 7th page for SJW to be mentioned. Now we just need feminazis and white-knighting and we'll have a start on insipid phrases and words that 4chan bred straw men pull out of their arses when losing arguments.

 

[Silva]

The problem with those kind of surveys is that they just take total earnings and adjust for differences in qualifications etc that could explain why men earn more. The reason women combined earn more than men combined from part time work is because more women work part time. They don't earn more or less for doing the same job. I've never worked anywhere that's happened. Have you? It simply doesn't happen for low level jobs in places like the UK or Republic of Ireland like you've suggested.

I don't doubt a problem exists when it comes to women getting promoted to certain levels. That would account for a lot of disparity. I would like to think that with future generations that this will improve.

From page 2 of this thread

Women earn less when they get the same education.
The first year out of college is the prime time for women and men to make comparable earnings: they are young, childless, and have just as much inexperience as their male counterparts. But women make less than men in their first year after graduating, even when factors such as schools, grades, majors, and others are taken into account. That educational gap will follow them no matter how much more higher learning they invest in: at any educational level, a man with the same degree earns more, on average.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/04/08/3424043/gender-wage-gap-myth/

 

[acnumber9]

I could be wrong here but doesn't that paragraph say that woman should be paid more based on their relative attributes not that they are. Which sort of suggests they aren't being paid more.

I'm still trying to figure out how Anita Sarkeesian is related to the black panthers.

My understanding of it is that it is suggesting they are. If you read the 9th page it talks about changes in percentage when taking educational factors and the like into account.

 

[DOTA]

Social Justice Warriors everywhere.

I know, right!

If only people would get over the whole 'giving a feck about things'. Apathy and ignorance are the way forward.

 

[acnumber9]

From page 2 of this thread


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/04/08/3424043/gender-wage-gap-myth/

I don't think that's saying what you think it is. It isn't saying they get paid less for doing the exact same job. It intimates they are not being given jobs with higher salaries meaning they have to take lower paid jobs.

 

[Conrad]

We aren't saying that, Mockney asked me who are today's feminists equivalents. The best I could come up with is Sarkeesian and her ilk.

So what chain of logic led you to equate making YouTube videos about sexism in media to the Black Panthers whose members were at various points guilty of some extremely serious crimes?

 

[MJJ]

Are you actually suggesting most black people are thieves?

nope just that your generalizing about the males is stupid.

 

[Silva]

I don't think that's saying what you think it is. It isn't saying they get paid less for doing the exact same job. It intimates they are not being given jobs with higher salaries meaning they have to take lower paid jobs.

The next paragraph in that link:

Women earn less in virtually every job.
It’s true that women tend to cluster in certain fields and men in others, and the ones women dominate usually pay less. But in virtually every job category tracked by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average woman earns less than the average man. Women only make more in three occupations for which there is adequate data to compare men’s and women’s earnings — they lose out in about 115 others. Even in those low-paid jobs that tend to be dominated by women, such as nurses, teachers, and secretaries, men earn more. And even in male-dominated industries like manufacturing, finance, construction, mining, and agriculture,women earn less.

 

[The Mitcher]

So what chain of logic led you to equate making YouTube videos about sexism in media to the Black Panthers whose members were at various points guilty of some extremely serious crimes?

Again, its not about that. He was asking who were extreme members of today's feminists, it is indeed the likes of Feminist Frequency. They may not have done what the BPs did, but they have certainly been unsavoury recently.

 

[adexkola]

From page 2 of this thread


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/04/08/3424043/gender-wage-gap-myth/

There is a gap. Why is there a gap? The papers you list are saying that it cannot necessarily be attributed to discrimination. "On average" excludes a lot of information. From my personal experience, there is room for salary negotiation. Are men more aggressive than females in the workplace? Maybe that is a factor. Maybe there are other natural factors.

 

[Silva]

nope just that your generalizing about the males is stupid.

Perhaps the almost entirety of human history has been written, then.

 

[Kazi]

Surprised this thread is still going strong

 

[Mad Winger]

Have you not noticed the rise of the far right in Europe?

Meh, I thought that had more to do with xenophobia, blatant racism, and people being people(i.e. rarely letting a goverment rule for 3 consecutive runs). But that's a different topic, I guess.

 

[The Mitcher]

Perhaps the almost entirety of human history has been written, then.

So, that does not mean that in this era right now that most men are sexist. You do know mankind has developed a hell of a lot?

 

[DOTA]

Everyone's sexist. Just some more than others are some make no effort to self monitor in order to counteract sexist thought processes.

 

[Silva]

There is a gap. Why is there a gap? The papers you list are saying that it cannot necessarily be attributed to discrimination. "On average" excludes a lot of information. From my personal experience, there is room for salary negotiation. Are men more aggressive than females in the workplace? Maybe that is a factor. Maybe there are other natural factors.

Maybe, but there's reason to believe that women do get the short end of the stick. I seem to recall the (UK?) government losing a lawsuit for paying a bunch of female nurses less than their male counterparts.

Meh, I thought that had more to do with xenophobia, blatant racism, and people being people(i.e. rarely letting a goverment rule for 3 consecutive runs). But that's a different topic, I guess.

It does, but they also happen to be incredibly sexist. UKIP (the UK's popular far right party) are pretty backward when it comes to gender.

So, that does not mean that in this era right now that most men are sexist. You do know mankind has developed a hell of a lot?

In some ways, sure. But women are still systematically raped in some African countries, are second class citizens in most of their world and baby girls still get thrown off roofs in China, so how developed are we really?

There's also more slaves today than at any other point in human history. We're a really shit species.

 

[Conrad]

Again, its not about that. He was asking who were extreme members of today's feminists, it is indeed the likes of Feminist Frequency. They may not have done what the BPs did, but they have certainly been unsavoury recently.

Really? What has Anita Sarkeesian done that has been unsavoury?

As far as I knew she was harassed over her YouTube videos on sexism in the past and after the flare up of misogynistic bile that came from the Zoe Quinn affair she then found herself being harassed again. If Anita Sarkeesian represents the most extreme parts of modern feminism out there then it is clearly one of the most well rounded and moderate movements to ever grace this planet. Yay modern feminism.

 

[Silva]

nope just that your generalizing about the males is stupid.

I'm saying most women are sexist too. People in general are quite sexist almost everywhere.

 

[acnumber9]

The next paragraph in that link:

Again. It isn't saying what you've claimed. Men are not getting paid more for the exact same job. Certainly not at low levels. It is saying that female dominated professions pay less than male dominated ones. A man isn't going to get paid more for cleaning than the girl cleaning the room next to him and a woman doing the bins isn't going to be paid less than the man collecting on a different route.

 

[Silva]

Really? What has Anita Sarkeesian done that has been unsavoury?

As far as I knew she was harassed over her YouTube videos on sexism in the past and after the flare up of misogynistic bile that came from the Zoe Quinn affair she then found herself being harassed again. If Anita Sarkeesian represents the most extreme parts of modern feminism out there then it is clearly one of the most well rounded and moderate movements to ever grace this planet. Yay modern feminism.

Right? As far as I can tell the main objection to feminism is that people don't like some of them.

 

[Silva]

Again. It isn't saying what you've claimed. Men are not getting paid more for the exact same job. Certainly not at low levels. It is saying that female dominated professions pay less than male dominated ones. A man isn't going to get paid more for cleaning than the girl cleaning the room next to him and a woman doing the bins isn't going to be paid less than the man collecting on a different route.

It's saying men in 112/115 professions get paid less than the women in those professions.

 

[acnumber9]

It's saying men in 112/115 professions get paid less than the women in those professions.

Have you ever worked in a place where you get paid more than a woman for doing the same job?

 

[The Mitcher]

Really? What has Anita Sarkeesian done that has been unsavoury?

As far as I knew she was harassed over her YouTube videos on sexism in the past and after the flare up of misogynistic bile that came from the Zoe Quinn affair she then found herself being harassed again. If Anita Sarkeesian represents the most extreme parts of modern feminism out there then it is clearly one of the most well rounded and moderate movements to ever grace this planet. Yay modern feminism.

She's a professional victim, most of the harrassment has been exaggerated or even lied about, she cherry picks her arguments often showing a game in the wrong light. Not to mention she's basically lying about being a gamer, and has made money off of people's sympathies, on kickstarter. She's a con artist. Again, the whole Zoe Quinn debacle is nothing to do wit hthe fact she had sex or is a woman. But because of who she fecked, these were JOURNALISTS, they wrote articles about her and all were in high praise of her. This is ethically wrong. Not to mention that Quinn has used bullying (search fine young capitalists), messed up a reality tv show, all this to advance her career. Gamers don't care about who she has sex with, but when its 5 prominent journalists, you have to question that.