I once held a secure door open for a lad who was 2 seconds behind me. I got bollicked by him and the security officer!!
Emma Watson on Feminism
- Thread starter rcoobc
- Start date
Across the board, according that report. Going off a minority of the jobs in your community is insignificant.
No it's not. What's most bullshit is trying to argue that something should be the case just because you feel it should be or you don't happen to like something. So what. Other people do. What makes you so special that what you find cringey should be outlawed?
It’s not true
It is the case in higher level roles and when you look at the average women’s wage compared to average men’s, it is a good bit lower. The situation over 60K a year is unequal and that should be where the argument is although. But more men than women work so there will always be more men going for a higher level postion than women. Then yes it will play into the minds of an employer that he will lose a female for extended periods of time so there will often be a reluctancy
But if you really think I will get paid more if I go for a low level reception job than a girl equally as unqualified in a random office in Dublin. You are wrong
Across the board seems to indicate it's a wide spread problem. When you apply for a job, the wage is clearly advertised in the majority of jobs. You know the wage for the position before you apply for it. It doesn't say 'Male: Xk Female: Xk' because that would be illegal. Likewise when you turn up for the interview they don't say 'well done we'd like to offer you the job but because you're female we're knocking it down a bit' nor do they say 'ok you're a guy, good we weren't sure if a woman would turn up or not, so we're actually gonna give you a couple thousand more'. This is the majority of jobs. The only time I've ever heard of this happening is in the bigger leagues where you negotiate your own wage, or are paid in some kind of system that isn't the normal and average system where allowances could potentially be made due to your gender. This isn't the norm however, or the standard which is why I dispute your claim that it's across the board implying that it's common place in most jobs.
This isn't to say that it's less of an issue deserving less attention, of course it's not. It's simply pointing out that it isn't spread everywhere like claimed. Which doesn't even matter, since it doesn't reduce the importance of equality, but it's just a stickler to see it claimed like I can walk into a job tomorrow and I'll be paid more than the girl sat next to me. It doesn't work like that.
That's not my argument at all. If you were to pay attention to my posts from the beginning you might have noticed that I've consistently argued that people should be treated as individuals and not be subject to set behaviors. If someone wants their chair pulled and someone else is happy to do, I don't care. But that shouldn't be someones default behavior with all women just because they're women.
Do you have evidence, apart from your limited experience, that backs this up? Because you're still outright ignoring actual research on this.
I suspect any job with set pay grades won't have any inequality issues, it's where there is an open market salary that it is more likely to occur.
It will undoubtedly be more prevailant in high income roles, but I would think it happens more than most people probably realise.
It will undoubtedly be more prevailant in high income roles, but I would think it happens more than most people probably realise.
I know people who own businesses
And I have worked in many places in and around Dublin for the past 15 years
Hopefully not!
Doesn't apply to me though. I think.
I just take any excuse I get to crowbar Big Train clips in to conversation.
That's pretty limited experience. We all know people who own businesses and have had jobs. Have you personally compared the wages of everyone in Dublin?
Except that's not why it happens.
People don't walk into board meetings and pull out the chairs for every woman that walks into the room. People don't walk around McDonalds making sure women are seated. It's not simply for the fact that someone is a woman. It happens specifically during a courting phase, when someone is wanting to show someone that they are polite, caring and enjoys doting on someone. Obviously a man wouldn't do that to a random guy because he wouldn't have those intentions. I've seen gay men do it for other gay men. It's ludicrous to say that it only happens because they're a woman. It happens because one person wants to convey an image of themselves to someone else.
Some people enjoy it. Some people don't. The same with most things in the world. So what.
I've had my chair pulled back for me to sit down quite a few times.
I've also had napkins laid across my lap, which I also find downright fecking weird, but whatever, it happens in some fancy restaurants.
As opposed to your googling?
Seems like it, yes.
me too, it can be awkward but I get over it
There are still conservative weirdos who do it outside of the courting phase.
My missus was given a small stand for her bag in a restaurant once. That was the oddest thing I've seen!
It's happened to me as well and it really does make my skin crawl. Same thing with people who have zero grasp of personal space and practically breathe into your mouth.
No way, I didn't think they'd do that kind of thing at McDonalds
Ah yea I've seen them, I actually thought it was a brilliant idea.
She had a designer bag and was delighted to show it off! When I asked for one for my back pack they dispensed of it.......No way, I didn't think they'd do that kind of thing at McDonalds
Ah yea I've seen them, I actually thought it was a brilliant idea.
It was Little Chef, there was a couple of them in Ireland a few years ago, but they were too top market for the like of usNo way, I didn't think they'd do that kind of thing at McDonalds
Ah yea I've seen them, I actually thought it was a brilliant idea.
Pah, I changed it to Maccys because I didn't know if you had Little Chef over there.
I agree with the fact we need equality for all and we all have problems that need adressing, but Watson's "definition" is not the definition of feminism. Feminism is for the rights of women, not men, women. If it were for both it would be called egalitarianism, which I feel more in favour of. Its just a rebranding, that's all it is when they had men into the definition. I am not saying she said it, but she implied the majorit
y of men do not want or are not aware of women's problems or that they are unequal. The majority of men in 2014 want equality, that's pretty much a given. There's no need to raise awareness when its on their PC screens everyday on twitter, facebook and tumblr. She came across as very naive I felt.
y of men do not want or are not aware of women's problems or that they are unequal. The majority of men in 2014 want equality, that's pretty much a given. There's no need to raise awareness when its on their PC screens everyday on twitter, facebook and tumblr. She came across as very naive I felt.
They are only making money off the photos though, its not that they are doing it because they hate women. Its some kind of underground market.
Yeah, they don't hate women or anything.
Well I haven't seen anything that suggests they like or dislike women. I did see one of them say it was all about making money.
Feminism is about people being treated the same way regardless of their gender. Women historically and currently face more obstacles than men so by sheer coincidence feminism does focus on womens issues a lot more, and that should be the case because of they're the more subjugated gender.
Egalitarianism is about people being treated the same way regardless of any particular. Feminism is about both men and women having equal rights, but it's a movement based around gender and as such it is different to egalitarianism which focuses on more than gender. Saying you're an egalitarian but not a feminist is like saying "well, I don't really care for those anti racism campaign, see, I'm an egalitarian so I do things better", it's not only ridiculous but it completely undermines the position you're taking.
The majority of men in 2014 are still pigs. There is a lot of need to raise awareness for women's equality as women not getting equal opportunities is one of the main reasons there is poverty in much of the world. The pay gap still exists in developed countries. Rape culture is a thing. Women aren't particularly well represented in the arts. And society as a whole still treats them like second rate citizens.
No feminism is about women's rights, it has nothing to do with the rights of men. Its been a rebranding since it became a dirty word.
Egalitarianism is based on the individual yes, but its the way we should be approaching the problem. No one's problems are more or less important.
That my friend, is a gross generalisation.
Emma Watson raises some good points - she strikes me as an articulate and thoughtful woman who has an interesting perspective on things and is using her fame for promotion of a cause rather than some of the relentless self promotion we see from others.
More importantly though - you would wouldn't you - possibly a bit on the skinny side and slightly too far on the ginger scale to be ideal but smashable as Andy Gray might say.
More importantly though - you would wouldn't you - possibly a bit on the skinny side and slightly too far on the ginger scale to be ideal but smashable as Andy Gray might say.
Yes, some people's problem are more or less important than others.
Read a book will you, I'd recommend The Second Sex by Simone De Beauvoir and Gender Trouble by Judith Butler because you seem to be misinformed on what feminism is.
My Problems are definitely less important than a lot of peoples.
It's really not.
I am not misinformed I live with a feminist. Nor do I need to read anything else.
And I'm not on about YOUR problems, I meant men and women's.
And it really IS. That is what I see men complain about feminists, they are made to look like they are mostly (or even all) sexist and misogynists when its not true.
Oh my god, you live with a feminist. You definitely know everything about feminism now. Anyone who says "I don't need to read anything else" definitely needs to read more.
Women's problems are definitely bigger. Women not getting equal education and opportunities is the single biggest factor leading to poverty. How is that not a bigger problem than what men face? There are few countries in the world where women aren't treated as the inferior sex.
Most men are sexist though. Most women too, coincidentally, but men more so. It's a pretty big world and we're not all Swedish.
I live with a women. Therefore I have periods
Yes they are. Obviously.
His arguments are ridiculous, he's the type of person who'd have been banging on about white people's problems when MLK was giving his speeches.
I said it wrong, but you don't have to be sarcastic, nor did I mean that I suddenly know everything, I do not.
Again, I said we can achieve more if we fight the issues equally.
Most men are definitely not sexist, same with most women.
Taking me out of context.
I'll go back to my initial point anyway: You don't know enough about feminism, read a book (or the two I suggested, in particular)
What?
Most people are definitely sexist. Most of the world is.