Correct. The money will help his agenda. Its just that his agenda is to further enrich himself not to fight climate change.
Elon Musk's epic bacon adventures
- Thread starter Eboue
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Correct. The money will help his agenda. Its just that his agenda is to further enrich himself not to fight climate change.
There are many other car companies who are going toward electrical cars, and without Tesla making a push on it, it is very likely that it would have been delayed for another year or two.
Nothing changes the world by itself.
Billionaires give money to both parties. When you give money, you might get invented to the parties, talk with politicians and so on. He is doing what everyone else does.
Rich yes, but not in the sense as a billionaire or whatever. He made his money himself, he's hardly a Paris Hilton.“We were very wealthy,” says Errol. “We had so much money at times we couldn't even close our safe.”
To elaborate on what I wrote here:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/elo...e-pure-simulation.433315/page-7#post-22814398
If Tesla Is Worth More Than GM, Why Are Taxpayers Still Subsidizing It?
For every Tesla car sold (up to No. 200,000), federal taxpayers kick in $7,500 to lower the costs. State taxpayers in a multitude of states pony up still more. In Colorado, they contribute another $5,000 to the electric car kitty, in California, it's $2,500.
When the Los Angeles Times crunched the numbers two years ago, it found that Tesla buyers had received more than $284 million in federal tax incentives and more than $38 million in California rebates. And that was before Tesla's banner 2016 year.
Can we wean Elon Musk off government support already?
Musk is, to be sure, an ideas man. Private, commercial space travel? Check. Washington to New York in less than half an hour in what he calls a “hyperloop” train that will travel at 800 miles per hour? Check. A new kind of tunneling engineering? Check. Solar energy? Check. Electric cars? Check, check.
As wide-ranging as these various entrepreneurial ventures may be, they all have one thing in common – not a single one of them would get funding in a competitive private capital market if it weren’t for massive (and I do mean massive) taxpayer-funded government subsidies.
A study published two years ago by The Los Angeles Times revealed that just three of Musk’s ventures – SolarCity Corp. (which manufactured and installed solar energy systems before its 2016 merger with Tesla Motors Inc.), Tesla Motors Inc. (which manufactures electric vehicles), and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX (which builds rocket ships) – had received $4.9 billion in government subsidies to that point in time. By now, Musk’s various ventures have sucked well over $5 billion from government coffers.
SpaceX wins lucrative new contracts to fly GPS and earth-imaging satellites
US Air Force awards SpaceX $20m contract to support its biggest spy satellites
SpaceX and ULA win over half a billion dollars in new Air Force launch contracts
I think Matt Stoller has written a lot about monopolies and govt policies that help them. He tweets about Tesla but I'm not sure if he's written properly about them.
cool. at least the kochs dont pretend to want to save the world and they dont have stans
I would say he can achieve both. He’s certainly had a massive positive influence on the car industry; accelerating a shift away from fossil fuel dependence. Which is a big deal for people like me who worry about climate change.
I know neither of you will ever agree with me about this. Ho hum.
I'm sure Mitch McDonnell can't wait to hear about how the Thai Navy doesn't know shit about rescue missions over some caviar and 100 year old wine.
Good. Governments should subsidise businesses that are good for the planet. I’m 100% in favour of that.
Has Elon ever said that he is going to save the world?
He has been pushing in a lot of things which in my opinion (and many other peoples) are good (Tesla, SpaceX, OpenAI and so on). The Iron Man-personality which is used both to put him in pedestal or to bash him isn't something that he has created.
1. There are questions about the viability of the Tesla model when it comes to solving the climate crisis.
2. It offers an alternative explanation as to why Musk might donate money, since his donation and presence on Trump's council certainly didn't stop Trump withdrawing from Paris and butchering the EPA itself .
they shouldn't subsidize people whilst enabling them to gain twenty billion dollars. same as how bankers shouldn't have gotten massive bonuses after being bailed out by people whose homes were forclosed on.
When will I get my free super fast satellite internet?
Cars that don't use fossil petroleum are good though. Tesla isn't going to change the world by itself, but many other car manufacturers are following, and that might help with the climate change.
He left Trump's council the same day US left Paris agreement. Looks that he was genuine in his intention to change Trump's mind. He couldn't and left. Better than to not even try, I would say.
You don’t like capitalism. We get that. But it’s the system in operation in the country you live right now.
I’m more than happy to see businesses that might help fight climate change getting prioritised by these subsidies.
Making shit overpriced cars and launching them into space isn't going to save the world
What the actual actual actual feck.
What a shit.
What a shit.
I've got no problem with subsidizing said businesses. I do have a problem with one person making billions of dollars on the back of those subsidies while laying off workers and preventing them from unionizing.
About the first point - I read somewhere that the life cycle analysis for electric cars isn't that great. They still need fossil fuels for the power they use, and their manufacture itself requires more emissions than regular cars.
The thing is, to me it says a lot that the US govt which has been so lethargic and reactionary on climate change will still subsidise Tesla. I think it's because the other ways, the more fundamental, important, consequential ways, of reducing emissions, are direct attacks on multiple rich industries (coal, oil, gas, pipelines, shipping, power plants, distribution). That is why, for example, there are massive regulations and (effectively) bans in many states for home-owned solar PV panels. However, electric cars are the one solution that does no/little damage to existing industries (beneficial to power production and distribution, and neutral for the others while electricity is still fossil fuel-based).
Electric cars should be the cherry on top of a climate solution rather than the part where the govts sink their money. The money should be going in huge amounts to large solar and wind farms and (if possible) nuclear reactors, massive development of public transport
@Pogue Mahone answering you too.
It's good that he left after Paris but...I don't see how anyone could sincerely believe that the GOP wasn't going to tear it up. They did it earlier (Bush/Kyoto), they promised during the campaign that they would do it (Trump and every other candidate), and they made the appointments indicating that they would do it (Pruitt, Tillerson).
So the validation of the viability of electric vehicles which sparked other makers to do the same is not positive for the world ? The validation of cheap (compared to what the government was paying before that) space platform is not positive for the world? But no, let's hate him because he is a billionaire.
What the hell.
People who think he has genuine intentions to help the people in any way are incredibly naive. He's literally like every other businessman, with the sole motive of piling up as much cash as he can, just a bit cleverer as he's able to disguise that behind his so called planet saving innovations.
I wonder what their counter argument is to this point.
That is a good point you're making, but isn't Musk also investing on solar energy? And while now electric cars use energy that isn't necessary clean, it is something that we need to move on anyway. Oil is limited, we need alternatives. Cars so far have been using only oil, now that isn't the case.
These article certainly affected (depressed) me a lot, wonder if it will change your mind:
https://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/science-says-revolt
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-cant-change-economic-system-our-number-is-up
This article explained to me why there is a potentially unsolvable conflict between profits and survival (if you apply its thinking to the climate crisis)
@berbatrick
https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html
A little dated on Tesla specifically but a good explanation why shifting away from petrol/diesel cars is unequivocally a good thing.
https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html
A little dated on Tesla specifically but a good explanation why shifting away from petrol/diesel cars is unequivocally a good thing.
He really doesn't have the temperament to cope with the amount of attention he wants. It won't end well, unless he sorts his head out.
He should delete his Twitter account.
at all the hate towards Elon Musk..I guess all of you calling him a piece of shit are perfect in all aspects of life.
He's doubled down. Am I on a parody account by mistake?
For all my flaws, I'm a better person than the man claiming one of the cave rescuers is a paedophile.
I guess all of you calling him a piece of shit are perfect in all aspects of life.
I guess all of you calling him a piece of shit are perfect in all aspects of life.
At least the rest of us give 100% of our billions to the proletariat, where its truly needed.
I'm just waiting for someone claiming he's more intelligent than him.
It's a real shame some people can't appreciate brilliant minds just because they made a lot of money.
Uhuh.
One day I hope to have such a brilliant mind that, because I'm a thin skinned rich tosser who has surrounded himself with sycophantic wankers, I feel compelled to lash out at someone for daring to cast doubt on my unparalleled genius by accusing them of sexually abusing children.
to be fair he watches rick and morty
very stable genius
(sus)
Is this supposed to mean suspicious?