Eduardo Camavinga / signs for Real Madrid

[El Jefe]

Without wanting to be a party pooper, I’ve seen this all too many times and I must say that I’m not particularly excited by any of it. Names don’t excite me anymore, and I must confess, that my fear of these players not having the impact hoped/expected is greater than any expectation I have of them to elevate us.

I don’t think what is stopping us from winning the league is as simple as our players not being good enough, and I also feel that for all their highlight reels, the likes of Sancho, Camavinga and Varane in real terms are not going to be the same players we have seen elsewhere. Too many times over the years have what seemed to be great summers turn into more disappointing and expensive players added. As individuals, I don’t think those players are good enough to elevate us. In a balanced team playing to everyone’s strengths - of course, they have plenty of quality and I’d be far more optimistic. But I don’t expect we just take Sancho from Dortmund, drop him on our right wing (which I still maintain is not as strong as the left for him) and get the same performances. They are not players that will win us enough games on their own, and as a unit, I don’t think we are good enough to get the best that they can offer froDon’t think it’s as simple as that. Camavinga is talented, but quite young still, and already, the debate is raging about just where and what role he can have in our midfield, because there is no obvious idea of what we’re doing and how his qualities will enhance it.

I’m quite indifferent about the market. The only individual ‘on the market’ who could get me excited this summer would be Haaland if we were to sign him, as I just think he is such a goal machine that he is likely to simply score enough goals regardless of how we play to win us more football matches and give us a chance. Other than that, I reached a point last season where I said that no matter who we sign in the summer I’m not confident of them doing enough to get us over the line.

For me, I’d be much more optimistic if we went back to basics and built a unit that compliments each other first, and THEN started to look at improving the quality. We signed VDB, who is not a bad player, yet we don’t know what to do with him. To me, Paul Pogba is one of the best midfielders in the world yet even with him, you have come to the point where you have lost faith. If we can go to wanting him, the most expensive midfielder ever to leave, a World Cup winner, then the likes of Sancho are not guaranteed anything either. These players are all just talent like Pogba. Likely to be player in positions that don’t optimise them and with teammates that don’t optimise them. I just don’t think we know what we are doing, or if we do, then what we are doing isn’t good enough. Cup final against Villarreal just showed what organisation vs lack of ideas looked like. An XI of far superior players looked like they had no clue, where a battling and tackling midfielder managed to be our standout player, despite the fact that we had the fecking ball all game.

Save this for when the season starts, it should be party time for every United fan at least until the games start. While I agree that the unit is greater than individual players, the basis of any top team is having top players and if reports are to be believed about Varane and Camavinga, they are upgrades. Also helps that the success rate on our transfers is improving with VDB being the only signing to play below expectations in recent years.

Big picture, even if Ole fails to get them gelling, the amount of talent the next manager will have to work with is unreal. We're a Tuchel away from big trophies.

 

[jesperjaap]

Without wanting to be a party pooper, I’ve seen this all too many times and I must say that I’m not particularly excited by any of it. Names don’t excite me anymore, and I must confess, that my fear of these players not having the impact hoped/expected is greater than any expectation I have of them to elevate us.

I don’t think what is stopping us from winning the league is as simple as our players not being good enough, and I also feel that for all their highlight reels, the likes of Sancho, Camavinga and Varane in real terms are not going to be the same players we have seen elsewhere. Too many times over the years have what seemed to be great summers turn into more disappointing and expensive players added. As individuals, I don’t think those players are good enough to elevate us. In a balanced team playing to everyone’s strengths - of course, they have plenty of quality and I’d be far more optimistic. But I don’t expect we just take Sancho from Dortmund, drop him on our right wing (which I still maintain is not as strong as the left for him) and get the same performances. They are not players that will win us enough games on their own, and as a unit, I don’t think we are good enough to get the best that they can offer froDon’t think it’s as simple as that. Camavinga is talented, but quite young still, and already, the debate is raging about just where and what role he can have in our midfield, because there is no obvious idea of what we’re doing and how his qualities will enhance it.

I’m quite indifferent about the market. The only individual ‘on the market’ who could get me excited this summer would be Haaland if we were to sign him, as I just think he is such a goal machine that he is likely to simply score enough goals regardless of how we play to win us more football matches and give us a chance. Other than that, I reached a point last season where I said that no matter who we sign in the summer I’m not confident of them doing enough to get us over the line.

For me, I’d be much more optimistic if we went back to basics and built a unit that compliments each other first, and THEN started to look at improving the quality. We signed VDB, who is not a bad player, yet we don’t know what to do with him. To me, Paul Pogba is one of the best midfielders in the world yet even with him, you have come to the point where you have lost faith. If we can go to wanting him, the most expensive midfielder ever to leave, a World Cup winner, then the likes of Sancho are not guaranteed anything either. These players are all just talent like Pogba. Likely to be player in positions that don’t optimise them and with teammates that don’t optimise them. I just don’t think we know what we are doing, or if we do, then what we are doing isn’t good enough. Cup final against Villarreal just showed what organisation vs lack of ideas looked like. An XI of far superior players looked like they had no clue, where a battling and tackling midfielder managed to be our standout player, despite the fact that we had the fecking ball all game.

I get your points. My only concern is a bit different. I think we need two central midfielders rather than just one, jstu as we have needed two centre backs for some time and so far only signed Maguire in that period. Forget the league position, we are still a long way behind City and prime Liverpool once there injured players return. I think we are also behind Chelsea the difference Tuchel has made. So yes, 4/5 top quality players would actually be needed to really bridge that gap.

But to not be excited by Sancho and Camavinga is a bit strange when they are two of the best young players in the whole of Europe? Of course Haaland is great but how does he make such a difference on his own, e is a striker that still requires chances to be provided and though old we already have a world class player in that position, we certainly dont in the mentioned two players positions.

Pogba isnt world class int he double pivot and never has been for us in five years. But yes he was a big signing I expected a lot from. In all honesty we havent made many others I have been excited about, certainly not VDB, would say only Alexis Sanchez really and to a much lesser degree due to his age and injuries Cavani. Vast majority of our signings the last few years have been under whelming or over rated for me......personally Sancho and Camavinga are 100% quality signings and improve us hugely, a quality centre back and a couple of the youngsters coming through a bit more and we look good next season....still for me a CM short but much better first eleven and flowing creative side than we have had for a long time

 

[horsechoker]

He still got puberty to go through. Shoulders will broaden a bit soon enough.

Yeah but then he'll be 30

 

[Rozay]

Save this for when the season starts, it should be party time for every United fan at least until the games start. While I agree that the unit is greater than individual players, the basis of any top team is having top players and if reports are to be believed about Varane and Camavinga, they are upgrades. Also helps that the success rate on our transfers is improving with VDB being the only signing to play below expectations in recent years.

Big picture, even if Ole fails to get them gelling, the amount of talent the next manager will have to work with is unreal. We're a Tuchel away from big trophies.

Or for when I am asked for my feelings, like I just was.

Naturally, I hope we win everything, and I rate the players individually, but I’m unmoved on the whole. Whatever team we put out, I’ll be supporting them, and personally, just want the league to start again at which point, I’ll support whatever I’m given.

 

[Raveneye]

Only if you want a purely defensive midfielder like an Ndidi type, which I dont personally. I find the Pogba comparisons lazy. Could call them box to box but Pogba has much better vision and strength, Camavinga is already much better defensively breaking up play and reading the game. Think he is more like Edgar Davids in style, technically good but all about energy, think the premiership is the perfect league for him to shine in. For a teenager in the last year of his contract £40-55m is a pretty high fee but there are really only a couple of viable options considerably cheaper than that so its kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of who we sign this summer.

He may take time to settle in an dshine, young, new culture, step up to a huge club etc etc....but Ive full confidence in a season or two he will be an absolutely huge player for us. One reason for that, everything I have read about him or from him, he looks to have a fantastic attitude, must buy for me

Yeah, I have no idea why people are saying Camavinga is Pogba-like. They're both tall, black, strong and good on the ball. That's it.

Pogba thinks tackling is something English people do. Camavinga is a heat-seeking tackling missile.

Pogba is one of the finest long passers in the world. Camavinga struggles with switching play, often over-hitting the pass.

Pogba is positionally naive in defense. Camavinga is excellent at sensing danger and reacting accordingly, if aggressively.

Pogba is capable of scoring sensational goals from the edge of the box. Camavinga has no such weapon in his locker.

Pogba often just doesn't run enough to do as much as he could for the team. Camavinga is fast and runs all day, often intelligently.

 

[L3G4CY15]

Has anyone asked Rashford for the latest news on Camavinga yet?

 

[RUCK4444]

Has anyone asked Rashford for the latest news on Camavinga yet?

Romano is sat patiently waiting for Marcus, his most reliable contact, to tweet on it…

 

[Rozay]

I get your points. My only concern is a bit different. I think we need two central midfielders rather than just one, jstu as we have needed two centre backs for some time and so far only signed Maguire in that period. Forget the league position, we are still a long way behind City and prime Liverpool once there injured players return. I think we are also behind Chelsea the difference Tuchel has made. So yes, 4/5 top quality players would actually be needed to really bridge that gap.

But to not be excited by Sancho and Camavinga is a bit strange when they are two of the best young players in the whole of Europe? Of course Haaland is great but how does he make such a difference on his own, e is a striker that still requires chances to be provided and though old we already have a world class player in that position, we certainly dont in the mentioned two players positions.

Pogba isnt world class int he double pivot and never has been for us in five years. But yes he was a big signing I expected a lot from. In all honesty we havent made many others I have been excited about, certainly not VDB, would say only Alexis Sanchez really and to a much lesser degree due to his age and injuries Cavani. Vast majority of our signings the last few years have been under whelming or over rated for me......personally Sancho and Camavinga are 100% quality signings and improve us hugely, a quality centre back and a couple of the youngsters coming through a bit more and we look good next season....still for me a CM short but much better first eleven and flowing creative side than we have had for a long time

If football was played on paper, I’d be as excited as you mate. Sancho and Camavinga are quality.

The fact that Pogba isn’t world class in a double pivot, yet we have, and likely will continue to play him there is a snapshot of the reason why I lack optimism. Overall cluelessness as to what we are trying to do. IMO, another top team doesn’t sign Sancho to play right side either, although I am aware that he can play there. It’s just not optimum. And you can say VDB isn’t all that, but that’s because we have fallen into the thought pattern of believing anything short of KDB can improve a team. I think VDB is a good player and can perform to a high level in a top team where it makes sense for VDB to be playing (in light of the suitability of the qualities that he has). But you’re right, he is not some individual ‘match-winner’ that he can come and lift us.

Sancho is not too good to fail. Camavinga isn’t. But they are certainly talented enough to excel in conditions that bring the best out of them. Is that United? I’ve grown leas optimistic of that being the case, truth be told. I’m not going yo get excited because Sancho and Camavinga are simply two great young players. I’m tired of getting excited of names on a paper. As the example I gave, Paul Pogba has come in at 23 being the biggest talent in his position in the game. Go and read his thread over the years. But even below him, just other good players. Read the excitement on the day they signed and then follow the trend from there on. I’ve read people saying that Sergio fecking Romero is the best post-Fergie signing we have made up until Bruno, himself just a highly productive player who ‘contributes when not playing well’. I’m tired and disillusioned. We’ve spent a billion and everyone wants them all to leave. My excitement is now dampened towards just adding new good footballers. I need to see direction and planning to get excited at this point, otherwise I couldn’t care less if we signed Mbappé and Neymar anymore. Chances are, we still wouldn’t win the league.

 

[Ali Dia]

Without wanting to be a party pooper, I’ve seen this all too many times and I must say that I’m not particularly excited by any of it. Names don’t excite me anymore, and I must confess, that my fear of these players not having the impact hoped/expected is greater than any expectation I have of them to elevate us.

I don’t think what is stopping us from winning the league is as simple as our players not being good enough, and I also feel that for all their highlight reels, the likes of Sancho, Camavinga and Varane in real terms are not going to be the same players we have seen elsewhere. Too many times over the years have what seemed to be great summers turn into more disappointing and expensive players added. As individuals, I don’t think those players are good enough to elevate us. In a balanced team playing to everyone’s strengths - of course, they have plenty of quality and I’d be far more optimistic. But I don’t expect we just take Sancho from Dortmund, drop him on our right wing (which I still maintain is not as strong as the left for him) and get the same performances. They are not players that will win us enough games on their own, and as a unit, I don’t think we are good enough to get the best that they can offer froDon’t think it’s as simple as that. Camavinga is talented, but quite young still, and already, the debate is raging about just where and what role he can have in our midfield, because there is no obvious idea of what we’re doing and how his qualities will enhance it.

I’m quite indifferent about the market. The only individual ‘on the market’ who could get me excited this summer would be Haaland if we were to sign him, as I just think he is such a goal machine that he is likely to simply score enough goals regardless of how we play to win us more football matches and give us a chance. Other than that, I reached a point last season where I said that no matter who we sign in the summer I’m not confident of them doing enough to get us over the line.

For me, I’d be much more optimistic if we went back to basics and built a unit that compliments each other first, and THEN started to look at improving the quality. We signed VDB, who is not a bad player, yet we don’t know what to do with him. To me, Paul Pogba is one of the best midfielders in the world yet even with him, you have come to the point where you have lost faith. If we can go to wanting him, the most expensive midfielder ever to leave, a World Cup winner, then the likes of Sancho are not guaranteed anything either. These players are all just talent like Pogba. Likely to be player in positions that don’t optimise them and with teammates that don’t optimise them. I just don’t think we know what we are doing, or if we do, then what we are doing isn’t good enough. Cup final against Villarreal just showed what organisation vs lack of ideas looked like. An XI of far superior players looked like they had no clue, where a battling and tackling midfielder managed to be our standout player, despite the fact that we had the fecking ball all game.

Good post. For me it all boils down to can Ole really take the next step in developing our style of play while also winning. It’s by far the most difficult step. We should be top 4 every year given our outlay so I get it that last season was nothing special. Based on last season I also have my own doubts but I obviously still really want him to be the one to succeed because he’ll stick around long term and build something if he can. I agree a marquee 21 year old and 18 year old don't guarantee us anything so he’s going to have to get us playing better as a unit. Sancho at least gives us added impetus and creatively instead of a shooter on both wings. He should also allow Rashford to get fit again without being rushed back half ready.

What I can get on board with and enjoy is that the squad that will be left behind if he can’t do it will be in better shape. I know you love Pogba but chances are he still just wants to leave rather than being forced out by anyone. I really think the club have done ok by him apart from not knowing how to play him with Bruno. We suffered a lot for creativity during his injuries too. I wrote a fairly lengthy post about it so I won’t go over it again but I think we tried our best but we’ve been a club in constant transition. Our recruitment failure rate has been nothing short of shocking the last 8 years. That can’t help matters. The waste is beyond any comprehension really.

I’m much more hopeful about at least building a solid base for the future with Murtough and Fletcher on board. They can really get to know targets before we move for them. I can see some kind of strategy taking shape and a consistent profile of player we are interested in. Bellingham - Camavinga. Sancho - Amad etc Ole and the squad might just surprise you next year? Who knows at this stage? Adding potential world class quality can’t hurt

Fingers crossed!

 

[croadyman]

What sort of player actually is this guy because feel like I am hearing contrasting things on this

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

He’s Muslim.

Come again?

 

[horsechoker]

Has anyone asked Rashford for the latest news on Camavinga yet?

"who?" - Marcus Rashford

 

[hungrywing]

Yeah, I have no idea why people are saying Camavinga is Pogba-like. They're both tall, black, strong and good on the ball. That's it.

Pogba thinks tackling is something English people do. Camavinga is a heat-seeking tackling missile.

Pogba is one of the finest long passers in the world. Camavinga struggles with switching play, often over-hitting the pass.

Pogba is positionally naive in defense. Camavinga is excellent at sensing danger and reacting accordingly, if aggressively.

Pogba is capable of scoring sensational goals from the edge of the box. Camavinga has no such weapon in his locker.

Pogba often just doesn't run enough to do as much as he could for the team. Camavinga is fast and runs all day, often intelligently.

One of those players sounds like a really good fit for the club.

 

[jesperjaap]

If football was played on paper, I’d be as excited as you mate. Sancho and Camavinga are quality.

The fact that Pogba isn’t world class in a double pivot, yet we have, and likely will continue to play him there is a snapshot of the reason why I lack optimism. Overall cluelessness as to what we are trying to do. IMO, another top team doesn’t sign Sancho to play right side either, although I am aware that he can play there. It’s just not optimum. And you can say VDB isn’t all that, but that’s because we have fallen into the thought pattern of believing anything short of KDB can improve a team. I think VDB is a good player and can perform to a high level in a top team where it makes sense for VDB to be playing (in light of the suitability of the qualities that he has). But you’re right, he is not some individual ‘match-winner’ that he can come and lift us.

Sancho is not too good to fail. Camavinga isn’t. But they are certainly talented enough to excel in conditions that bring the best out of them. Is that United? I’ve grown leas optimistic of that being the case, truth be told. I’m not going yo get excited because Sancho and Camavinga are simply two great young players. I’m tired of getting excited of names on a paper. As the example I gave, Paul Pogba has come in at 23 being the biggest talent in his position in the game. Go and read his thread over the years. But even below him, just other good players. Read the excitement on the day they signed and then follow the trend from there on. I’ve read people saying that Sergio fecking Romero is the best post-Fergie signing we have made up until Bruno, himself just a highly productive player who ‘contributes when not playing well’. I’m tired and disillusioned. We’ve spent a billion and everyone wants them all to leave. My excitement is now dampened towards just adding new good footballers. I need to see direction and planning to get excited at this point, otherwise I couldn’t care less if we signed Mbappé and Neymar anymore. Chances are, we still wouldn’t win the league.

Yes I understand that. Pogba was an exciting signing and if we do keep him and play him in the double pivot on £400k a week, its a bad move in my book. Just for my thoughts on our signings, he is an exception and I dont personally think we have failed him. Unless we were to change the formation and build the team around him which he doesnt warrant, I just think if you are that talented, you should perform.

And just my personal opinion but though I think VDB is a decent player, I never thought he was an excellent one and really didnt see him fitting in here, obviously not to the degree where he barely plays. But he is a level far below the likes of DeJong and DeLigt for me in that Ajax side, more for me very much like Ziyech at Chelsea, who is also a good player but was way way overhyped as a signing and not really improving anything but the squad.

Whether we are able to get the best out of Sancho and Camavinga with our current coaching and management is very much a valid argument I do agree and yes within our system where we are playing them doesnt neccarsarily get the best out of them. Same token though, you can aim that argument against absolutely whoever we sign and for me they woul dactually be the first two players I would pick in those positions to sign and only Grealish actually excites me more as a signing...again can argue against positions but just as last seasons thoughts, he starts over Rashford and Fernandes over me and could probably play on the right too....anyway no point going there, that ship has sailed, Haaland simply didnt excite me as the fee is way too high to make it a viable signing.

I do think we are 4 maybe even 5 top signings away from what we actually need to win silverware. But those two and a quality centre back makes us a lot closer. Though progress has been slow, we are a lot closer to the side we require than when we signed Pogba for example, so I do think it is easier for them to make a difference than it was for him when we only had 3/4 players consistantly at the right level then in his defence

 

[jesperjaap]

Yeah, I have no idea why people are saying Camavinga is Pogba-like. They're both tall, black, strong and good on the ball. That's it.

Pogba thinks tackling is something English people do. Camavinga is a heat-seeking tackling missile.

Pogba is one of the finest long passers in the world. Camavinga struggles with switching play, often over-hitting the pass.

Pogba is positionally naive in defense. Camavinga is excellent at sensing danger and reacting accordingly, if aggressively.

Pogba is capable of scoring sensational goals from the edge of the box. Camavinga has no such weapon in his locker.

Pogba often just doesn't run enough to do as much as he could for the team. Camavinga is fast and runs all day, often intelligently.

Exactly, I was going to say the same second sentence as you adding both French haha. I think the only other similarity is they are both good at driving with the ball from deep and good awreness with the short passing, though I think more benefical to us, Camavinga often moves the ball quicker. If anything he is more similar to Kante to me in the French squad

 

[croadyman]

Yes I understand that. Pogba was an exciting signing and if we do keep him and play him in the double pivot on £400k a week, its a bad move in my book. Just for my thoughts on our signings, he is an exception and I dont personally think we have failed him. Unless we were to change the formation and build the team around him which he doesnt warrant, I just think if you are that talented, you should perform.

And just my personal opinion but though I think VDB is a decent player, I never thought he was an excellent one and really didnt see him fitting in here, obviously not to the degree where he barely plays. But he is a level far below the likes of DeJong and DeLigt for me in that Ajax side, more for me very much like Ziyech at Chelsea, who is also a good player but was way way overhyped as a signing and not really improving anything but the squad.

Whether we are able to get the best out of Sancho and Camavinga with our current coaching and management is very much a valid argument I do agree and yes within our system where we are playing them doesnt neccarsarily get the best out of them. Same token though, you can aim that argument against absolutely whoever we sign and for me they woul dactually be the first two players I would pick in those positions to sign and only Grealish actually excites me more as a signing...again can argue against positions but just as last seasons thoughts, he starts over Rashford and Fernandes over me and could probably play on the right too....anyway no point going there, that ship has sailed, Haaland simply didnt excite me as the fee is way too high to make it a viable signing.

I do think we are 4 maybe even 5 top signings away from what we actually need to win silverware. But those two and a quality centre back makes us a lot closer. Though progress has been slow, we are a lot closer to the side we require than when we signed Pogba for example, so I do think it is easier for them to make a difference than it was for him when we only had 3/4 players consistantly at the right level then in his defence

Yeah would still need a backup RB and top class striker when Edi leaves as well

 

[Ali Dia]

What sort of player actually is this guy because feel like I am hearing contrasting things on this

He’s a potential Rolls Royce of a midfielder. Box to box. Elegant on the ball. Mobile. Strong in the tackle. Seems to be fairly press resistant. Can definitely pass well between the lines. He’s quite gangly and still fairly skinny so he might get banged around a bit until he hits his stride. It’s one for the future but he’ll get games next year.

 

[Rozay]

Good post. For me it all boils down to can Ole really take the next step in developing our style of play while also winning. It’s by far the most difficult step. We should be top 4 every year given our outlay so I get it that last season was nothing special. Based on last season I also have my own doubts but I obviously still really want him to be the one to succeed because he’ll stick around long term and build something if he can. I agree a marquee 21 year old and 18 year old don't guarantee us anything so he’s going to have to get us playing better as a unit. Sancho at least gives us added impetus and creatively instead of a shooter on both wings. He should also allow Rashford to get fit again without being rushed back half ready.

What I can get on board with and enjoy is that the squad that will be left behind if he can’t do it will be in better shape. I know you love Pogba but chances are he still just wants to leave rather than being forced out by anyone. I really think the club have done ok by him apart from not knowing how to play him with Bruno. We suffered a lot for creativity during his injuries too. I wrote a fairly lengthy post about it so I won’t go over it again but I think we tried our best but we’ve been a club in constant transition. Our recruitment failure rate has been nothing short of shocking the last 8 years. That can’t help matters. The waste is beyond any comprehension really.

I’m much more hopeful about at least building a solid base for the future with Murtough and Fletcher on board. They can really get to know targets before we move for them. I can see some kind of strategy taking shape and a consistent profile of player we are interested in. Bellingham - Camavinga. Sancho - Amad etc Ole and the squad might just surprise you next year? Who knows at this stage? Adding potential world class quality can’t hurt

Fingers crossed!

I share your thoughts. Obviously, having talent in the squad is better than having little talent. But I think we’ve maxed out where ‘talent’ will take us, and the next step needs a bit more than that.

As far as Pogba is concerned, I’m not speaking about whether he does or doesn’t want to leave, I’m simply using him as an example of a top player who has barely been player to his strengths in 5 years. In the words of Rio Ferdinand ‘I’m tired of people saying Pogba can’t defend. Stop asking him to defend then!’. Of course, that is simplistic, and probably not meant literally in the sense of zero defending - but the point of it is that if his strengths lie elsewhere, perhaps give him that job rather than one he isn’t good at! Well before Bruno joined us, Pogba has been played in a midfield two, and then blamed for poor defending! While he has had combinations of Lingard, Pereira, Mkhitaryan, Fellaini, Mata playing in midfield roles ahead of him where they can focus on other things. And remarkably, even then, the expectation was on Pogba behind them to still provide the main source of creativity! Anyway, this isn’t about some ‘poor Pogba’ business - it is testimony to not being able to build teams that play to strengths of our players as a unit. Pogba just being an example. We bought him, for a world record fee, and then from the very first game began playing him in a position he didn’t play in at Juve in 4 years! Pogba had never shown capacity to defend to a high level, but of course, with this being England, people simply dismissed that and said if he is poor defensively it’s because he has a bad attitude. Juve asked him to do what he’s good at, France ask him to do what he’s good at, United ask him to do what he isn’t. So my point is, for all Sancho’s talent, don’t be surprised if you don’t get an exact copy of BVB Sancho. The pieces probably won’t fit as well.

In this very thread, many seem unsure of what sort of role Camavinga will have if he came here. I can see the problems already! What we do know, is that he is coming from a midfield system that we do not play here. So yes, he’s ‘talented’, but he’s not more talented than Paul Pogba, who many feel doesn’t fit in.

I like all of these players individually, don’t get me wrong. Sancho in particular, I’ve followed since he was a young child. Sadly, and I hate to say it, but ‘if they were joining City I’d be far more optimistic of their success’, simply because I’d see immediately how it will all work with the qualities they have. I don’t think City just try to buy players because they are ‘talented’, they buy the pieces that fit, and when those pieces are put together, the machine becomes amazing. Our approach seems to have an average machine, but with amazing pieces, and then just hope they win us games. Which is why Bruno is so perfect for the team that we are now. He simply puts numbers on the board.

I’ll always hope for the best. I’m typically extremely optimistic and positive about our chances, but I think the ending of last season is still in my system and made me a but fed up. I do love Ole too and would of course love him to lead us to glory. So by all means, bring on all the talent! I’m just not expectant.

 

[Raveneye]

Exactly, I was going to say the same second sentence as you adding both French haha. I think the only other similarity is they are both good at driving with the ball from deep and good awreness with the short passing, though I think more benefical to us, Camavinga often moves the ball quicker. If anything he is more similar to Kante to me in the French squad

All good points! Tell Pogba that he'll have more freedom to play in front of Varane and young Kante and he'll sign that contract right quick.

Another way of describing Camvinga perhaps is "everything we hoped Fred would be."

 

[El Jefe]

Or for when I am asked for my feelings, like I just was.

Naturally, I hope we win everything, and I rate the players individually, but I’m unmoved on the whole. Whatever team we put out, I’ll be supporting them, and personally, just want the league to start again at which point, I’ll support whatever I’m given.

That bolded bit was said in jest.

I hold all the same reservations you do tbh but I'm allowing myself to be a muppet again and hoping for fireworks on the pitch. In recent years I too have been unmoved by our summer activity due to being burned several times in the post SAF era. I'm back on the excitement train this year though, I remember how it felt signing Stam, Yorke and Blomqvist or Nani, Anderson, Tevez and Hargreaves and that's one of the positive parts of being a fan. If we turn out to be uninspiring on the pitch next season, I will do a 180 but I'll enjoy it for now.

 

[Rozay]

Yes I understand that. Pogba was an exciting signing and if we do keep him and play him in the double pivot on £400k a week, its a bad move in my book. Just for my thoughts on our signings, he is an exception and I dont personally think we have failed him. Unless we were to change the formation and build the team around him which he doesnt warrant, I just think if you are that talented, you should perform.

And just my personal opinion but though I think VDB is a decent player, I never thought he was an excellent one and really didnt see him fitting in here, obviously not to the degree where he barely plays. But he is a level far below the likes of DeJong and DeLigt for me in that Ajax side, more for me very much like Ziyech at Chelsea, who is also a good player but was way way overhyped as a signing and not really improving anything but the squad.

Whether we are able to get the best out of Sancho and Camavinga with our current coaching and management is very much a valid argument I do agree and yes within our system where we are playing them doesnt neccarsarily get the best out of them. Same token though, you can aim that argument against absolutely whoever we sign and for me they woul dactually be the first two players I would pick in those positions to sign and only Grealish actually excites me more as a signing...again can argue against positions but just as last seasons thoughts, he starts over Rashford and Fernandes over me and could probably play on the right too....anyway no point going there, that ship has sailed, Haaland simply didnt excite me as the fee is way too high to make it a viable signing.

I do think we are 4 maybe even 5 top signings away from what we actually need to win silverware. But those two and a quality centre back makes us a lot closer. Though progress has been slow, we are a lot closer to the side we require than when we signed Pogba for example, so I do think it is easier for them to make a difference than it was for him when we only had 3/4 players consistantly at the right level then in his defence

Hmm, again, that sounds like the sort of simplistic approach I have a problem with. ‘I know Pogba isn’t best in a double-pivot but I just fee if you are that talented you should perform’. Zidane was talented. He wasn’t asked to play in a pivot as he is not good enough at defending. And Real Madrid would never have broken the world record to bring him there without a plan to play him in a way that allows him to show his best. It’s not about attitude or anything. It’s common sense. I’d be infuriated if we bought Trippier in on big money as our left back. I don’t think it should be a case of ‘building a team around’ any individual. It should be a case of buying players where each do a role that suits them. And that includes Pogba. I don’t see how Juve was built around Pogba any more than it was built around Pirlo or Vidal. All players were in a system that allowed them to be the best versions of themselves. For Pogba, that happened to mean less defending, simply because the best version of Pogba looks forward and not backwards. The best version of Vidal though, is not as a 10. He needs to go both ways. All were happy.

I feel the caf turns a but tabloid like regarding transfers in general. They just want us to buy any talented player. I remember last summer, it was all Sancho for the right wing, then talk about being interested in Havertz broke and we got the same ‘hmm, where will he play?’ conversation, with many posters happy for us to sign him and play him on the right wing!

And don’t get me wrong, I agree about VDB, he’s a class below the other Ajax boys, I said as much myself last year - my point with him is you shouldn’t always need the generational talented player, VDB has certain qualities that, if played in the right set up, he can be an asset. We do not play with such set up, yet we bought him. Then benched him for a year asking the question of where can we fit him. I’m not saying we plan to play Sancho or Camavinga at LB or anything, but I’m just underscoring the benefit gained (and lost) from playing players individually and collectively where their qualities can be enhanced.

 

[Rozay]

That bolded bit was said in jest.

I hold all the same reservations you do tbh but I'm allowing myself to be a muppet again and hoping for fireworks on the pitch. In recent years I too have been unmoved by our summer activity due to being burned several times in the post SAF era. I'm back on the excitement train this year though, I remember how it felt signing Stam, Yorke and Blomqvist or Nani, Anderson, Tevez and Hargreaves and that's one of the positive parts of being a fan. If we turn out to be uninspiring on the pitch next season, I will do a 180 but I'll enjoy it for now.

I think the Villarreal game tipped me over the edge. Watching a game like that, you can’t possibly think that it’s just that our players are not good enough. On paper, they are far better than their opponents. If we bought more, they’d just start off as far better on paper too. Beyond that, feck knows!

 

[Paxi]

This transfer thread doesn't become real until Lyon, PSG and Bordeaux fans get involved talking about deadlines, sticking up for Rennes and the superiority of Ligue 1 and PSG like we had with the BDL in the Sancho thread.

Could be wrong but aren’t French fans quite tribal?

 

[Paxi]

If we get Sancho, Varane and Camavinga in one window I will carve a statue of John Murtough with my dried Jizz.

where you going to store all that spunk? In little glass jars in your freezer?

 

[El Jefe]

I think the Villarreal game tipped me over the edge. Watching a game like that, you can’t possibly think that it’s just that our players are not good enough. On paper, they are far better than their opponents. If we bought more, they’d just start off as far better on paper too. Beyond that, feck knows!

Christ! Thanks a lot for reminding me about that game, I'd permanently deleted it from my memory bank, it really was an awful showing to close the season. My only lasting memory of the game is Rashford literally trying to run through Foyth and getting rejected every time.

I really hope Ole and the coaching staff are using this break to develop our passing as a team and relying on less hero ball from Bruno and Rashford. I have my doubts about Ole but I'll give him credit for not being too stubborn and recognising where improvements are needed, it's just a question of can we implement it successfully.

 

[krentz]

It would be a coup if we could get him, kid is as good as Bellingham.

 

[jesperjaap]

Hmm, again, that sounds like the sort of simplistic approach I have a problem with. ‘I know Pogba isn’t best in a double-pivot but I just fee if you are that talented you should perform’. Zidane was talented. He wasn’t asked to play in a pivot as he is not good enough at defending. And Real Madrid would never have broken the world record to bring him there without a plan to play him in a way that allows him to show his best. It’s not about attitude or anything. It’s common sense. I’d be infuriated if we bought Trippier in on big money as our left back. I don’t think it should be a case of ‘building a team around’ any individual. It should be a case of buying players where each do a role that suits them. And that includes Pogba. I don’t see how Juve was built around Pogba any more than it was built around Pirlo or Vidal. All players were in a system that allowed them to be the best versions of themselves. For Pogba, that happened to mean less defending, simply because the best version of Pogba looks forward and not backwards. The best version of Vidal though, is not as a 10. He needs to go both ways. All were happy.

I feel the caf turns a but tabloid like regarding transfers in general. They just want us to buy any talented player. I remember last summer, it was all Sancho for the right wing, then talk about being interested in Havertz broke and we got the same ‘hmm, where will he play?’ conversation, with many posters happy for us to sign him and play him on the right wing!

And don’t get me wrong, I agree about VDB, he’s a class below the other Ajax boys, I said as much myself last year - my point with him is you shouldn’t always need the generational talented player, VDB has certain qualities that, if played in the right set up, he can be an asset. We do not play with such set up, yet we bought him. Then benched him for a year asking the question of where can we fit him. I’m not saying we plan to play Sancho or Camavinga at LB or anything, but I’m just underscoring the benefit gained (and lost) from playing players individually and collectively where their qualities can be enhanced.

I dont disagree, but when we signed Pogba we werent playing a double pivot, its quite a recent change. I think though its truth he cant, after all I am the one that mentioned it....its also an excuse to say we havent utilised him to get the best out of him, he simply hasnt consistently performed and really is a luxury player that completes an excellent side liked he did at Juventus, we were owhere near a complete side, going to PSG would be good for him and us I feel. If we had Pogba with some of our great sides e would no doubt have been better.....as it is he hasnt been cosnsitantly better than good really, but there are many other players we have had in poor teams that have been superb, Bryan Robson obviously the primer example, the truth for me is hi sall round game simply isnt consistantly good enough performance wise, especially defensively and for all his abilities his performances for Juventus and France are overhyped for me too. I stopped buying into the Pogba hype train a long time ago as its not about ability and moments and the personality or the right system for Pogba or the right players around him, hell I could play in that Juventus midfield he was part of in that league at the time....its about performances

Of course fans get excited about talented names....personally it was all about Grealish for me last summer....one of the reasons I was pissed off when we signed VDB tbh.

It doesnt matter wo we sign, there are no guarantees it wins trophies, any side in history would struggle to win the league the last three years with the points totals that Liverpool and City have managed. Whether or not our current set up staff wise is good enough remains to be seen, I have similar concerns, but if they fail for another season or two they go.....Camavinga would still be a 20year old and Sancho 23, still a decade ahead of them, so I sitll dont see how these are not potential transfers to be genuinely excited about, who would you sign instead?

 

[jesperjaap]

He’s a potential Rolls Royce of a midfielder. Box to box. Elegant on the ball. Mobile. Strong in the tackle. Seems to be fairly press resistant. Can definitely pass well between the lines. He’s quite gangly and still fairly skinny so he might get banged around a bit until he hits his stride. It’s one for the future but he’ll get games next year.

If he can settle in to the culture and speed of the premiership (which I think actually suits him), I disagree, I think he is a regular starter within a short period of time, next to McTominay I feel if we arent persisting with Pogba

 

[tenpoless]

Who is this he doesnt look like Sancho

 

[Ali Dia]

If he can settle in to the culture and speed of the premiership (which I think actually suits him), I disagree, I think he is a regular starter within a short period of time, next to McTominay I feel if we arent persisting with Pogba

I think out of Fred and Mct that Fred is quite a bit more likely to stay in the team but each to their own. I don’t really see what Mct offers apart from goals. In all other aspects of midfield play apart from size and mobility he’s lacking. He’s not a good tackler. He doesn’t pass through the lanes. He runs behind players instead of taking on the ball under pressure and he’s slow to release ball on the turn.

If you want to control a game I think both Camavinga and Fred will sit and receive the ball deep and join in the attack on the overload. In other phases Fred will be following Bruno around pressing high up and feeding quick ball into the forwards. There should be plenty games to go around either way, especially if one of Matic or Pogba leaves.

 

[Knightmare7]

Can’t

If football was played on paper, I’d be as excited as you mate. Sancho and Camavinga are quality.

The fact that Pogba isn’t world class in a double pivot, yet we have, and likely will continue to play him there is a snapshot of the reason why I lack optimism. Overall cluelessness as to what we are trying to do. IMO, another top team doesn’t sign Sancho to play right side either, although I am aware that he can play there. It’s just not optimum. And you can say VDB isn’t all that, but that’s because we have fallen into the thought pattern of believing anything short of KDB can improve a team. I think VDB is a good player and can perform to a high level in a top team where it makes sense for VDB to be playing (in light of the suitability of the qualities that he has). But you’re right, he is not some individual ‘match-winner’ that he can come and lift us.

Sancho is not too good to fail. Camavinga isn’t. But they are certainly talented enough to excel in conditions that bring the best out of them. Is that United? I’ve grown leas optimistic of that being the case, truth be told. I’m not going yo get excited because Sancho and Camavinga are simply two great young players. I’m tired of getting excited of names on a paper. As the example I gave, Paul Pogba has come in at 23 being the biggest talent in his position in the game. Go and read his thread over the years. But even below him, just other good players. Read the excitement on the day they signed and then follow the trend from there on. I’ve read people saying that Sergio fecking Romero is the best post-Fergie signing we have made up until Bruno, himself just a highly productive player who ‘contributes when not playing well’. I’m tired and disillusioned. We’ve spent a billion and everyone wants them all to leave. My excitement is now dampened towards just adding new good footballers. I need to see direction and planning to get excited at this point, otherwise I couldn’t care less if we signed Mbappé and Neymar anymore. Chances are, we still wouldn’t win the league.

Can’t imagine living in a state of depression like this and wanting to subject others to overwhelming negativity with my special time on earth

 

[wise_old_man]

Tchoumeni from Monaco would be the perfect solution if we are keeping Pogba

If we are selling Pogba, then One of Grealish / Locatelli / Saul / Goretzka / Carmavinga would be a dream.

How about Goretzka for immediate replacement and Camavinga for the future? Or you are just not sold on this kid?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Can’t


Can’t imagine living in a state of depression like this and wanting to subject others to overwhelming negativity with my special time on earth

Welcome to Rozay

 

[Judas]

Can’t imagine living in a state of depression like this and wanting to subject others to overwhelming negativity with my special time on earth

so brilliantly put. The level of misery some on here will stoop to on here is impressive, there's never a time when they have a day off.

 

[Champ]

Jesus wept, there's some special view points on this thread

I bet if Leicester were after this guy people would call it a master stroke signing.

He's an up coming talent and definitely one I hope we are seriously considering.

And people really need to stop saying 'double pivot'...makes no sense at all

 

[Canagel]

If football was played on paper, I’d be as excited as you mate. Sancho and Camavinga are quality.

The fact that Pogba isn’t world class in a double pivot, yet we have, and likely will continue to play him there is a snapshot of the reason why I lack optimism. Overall cluelessness as to what we are trying to do. IMO, another top team doesn’t sign Sancho to play right side either, although I am aware that he can play there. It’s just not optimum. And you can say VDB isn’t all that, but that’s because we have fallen into the thought pattern of believing anything short of KDB can improve a team. I think VDB is a good player and can perform to a high level in a top team where it makes sense for VDB to be playing (in light of the suitability of the qualities that he has). But you’re right, he is not some individual ‘match-winner’ that he can come and lift us.

Sancho is not too good to fail. Camavinga isn’t. But they are certainly talented enough to excel in conditions that bring the best out of them. Is that United? I’ve grown leas optimistic of that being the case, truth be told. I’m not going yo get excited because Sancho and Camavinga are simply two great young players. I’m tired of getting excited of names on a paper. As the example I gave, Paul Pogba has come in at 23 being the biggest talent in his position in the game. Go and read his thread over the years. But even below him, just other good players. Read the excitement on the day they signed and then follow the trend from there on. I’ve read people saying that Sergio fecking Romero is the best post-Fergie signing we have made up until Bruno, himself just a highly productive player who ‘contributes when not playing well’. I’m tired and disillusioned. We’ve spent a billion and everyone wants them all to leave. My excitement is now dampened towards just adding new good footballers. I need to see direction and planning to get excited at this point, otherwise I couldn’t care less if we signed Mbappé and Neymar anymore. Chances are, we still wouldn’t win the league.

Fully agree.
This fanbase love to get gassed over the next shiny new toy when in reality we'll still be as frustrating to watch next season due to underlying issues of coaching and lack of direction

 

[Lash]

Jesus wept, there's some special view points on this thread

I bet if Leicester were after this guy people would call it a master stroke signing.

He's an up coming talent and definitely one I hope we are seriously considering.

And people really need to stop saying 'double pivot'...makes no sense at all

Exactly!

 

[Jeppers7]

Fully agree.
This fanbase love to get gassed over the next shiny new toy when in reality we'll still be as frustrating to watch next season due to underlying issues of coaching and lack of direction

That’s the major concern….but let me enjoy Sancho today and worry about the rest when the (probable) downturn in form arrives in October/November

 

[OL29]

Can’t


Can’t imagine living in a state of depression like this and wanting to subject others to overwhelming negativity with my special time on earth

But he was asked for his thoughts on the transfer? Would you rather he lied?

 

[AlexUTD]

Has anyone asked Rashford for the latest news on Camavinga yet?

Yes x