Eden Hazard

[TheMagicFoolBus]

That's right, crawl so far up Hazard's arse that you have to twist what I'm saying in order to make a point.

Mo Salah did have a freak season, and yes it was better than any of Hazard seasons, but no he isn't a better player. And no, Hazard isn't 'overrated' because Salah had a better season, he's overrated by people who declare him by far the best in the league when really he's just one of a few in contention.

The players you mentioned were/are better than Salah because they consistently delivered these kind of seasons, but that doesn't mean that Salah's one season wasn't exceptional. I'm talking about Salah last year in isolation yet somehow people are incapable of reading and have taken this to mean I think he's a better player, despite me stating otherwise about 4 or 5 times.

And yes, the other players mentioned had world class seasons. Has Kane ever had a season as good as Salah though? No, he hasn't. He's still been world class, it's just Salah was beyond world class last season, he was easily top 5 in the world in terms of individual performances. Why you feel the need to twist what I'm saying in to 'hurr durr salah better than hazard, only salah world class' I honestly have no idea.

Hazard has never had a serious impact on the CL, and whilst he's had incredible seasons in the premier league it's nothing we haven't seen from others like De Bruyne or Aguero. Salah's productivity (32 goals, 10 assists) was on a level we haven't seen in the Premier League for a while, and was in my opinion unique and the best individual showing in the league since Suarez. He also combined that with 10 goals and 4 assists in the CL, whilst reaching the final.

People here are acting like Salah was nothing but a poacher last season, grinding the goals but not being magical or exciting, when really I found him every bit as entertaining as anything Hazard has produced. Some of his goals were pure genius, he made fools out of defenders consistently.

You keep saying Hazard has never had an impact in the CL yet he carried a mediocre Chelsea side to a semifinal in 13/14, where they ran into a world-class Atletico Madrid as opposed to an average Roma.

In isolation you are correct about Salah's season, but I don't think your point regarding Hazard's CL impact is accurate.

 

[giorno]

You keep saying Hazard has never had an impact in the CL yet he carried a mediocre Chelsea side to a semifinal in 13/14, where they ran into a world-class Atletico Madrid as opposed to an average Roma.

You keep saying this. Hazard's last two games in that CL: PSG-Chelsea 3-1, Chelsea-Atletico 1-3

Your best performance of that CL(2-0 PSG) came with Hazard watching from the stands

 

[Mogget]

You keep saying Hazard has never had an impact in the CL yet he carried a mediocre Chelsea side to a semifinal in 13/14, where they ran into a world-class Atletico Madrid as opposed to an average Roma.

In isolation you are correct about Salah's season, but I don't think your point regarding Hazard's CL impact is accurate.

He "carried" Chelsea to the semi-final.

In the group stages Chelsea were up against Schalke, Basel, and Steaua Bucuresti. No offence to these teams, but I'm pretty sure Chelsea would have finished top of this group even without Hazard.

In the round of 16 you were up against Galatasaray. Again, pretty sure Chelsea wouldn't have needed Hazard "carrying" them to get past Galatasaray.

In the quarter finals you played PSG. You lost the first leg 3-1, and won the second leg 2-0 and went through on away goals. Except Hazard went off in the 18th minute of the second leg.

So, when you say Hazard "carried" you to the semi-finals, you mean he did so by beating the likes of Schalke, Basel, Steaua Bucuresti, and Galatasaray. Much better sides than the "average Roma" that you're disparaging Salah for performing against.

Edit: FFS @giorno

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

You keep saying Hazard has never had an impact in the CL yet he carried a mediocre Chelsea side to a semifinal in 13/14, where they ran into a world-class Atletico Madrid as opposed to an average Roma.

In isolation you are correct about Salah's season, but I don't think your point regarding Hazard's CL impact is accurate.

How about meeting Manchester City in the quarters, the team who got over 100 points in the premier league that season? They're better than any team Chelsea beat on their way to being comfortably beaten by Atletico.

That and what @giorno and @Mogget said. At no point has Hazard come close to what Salah did in Europe last season, stop trying to pretend otherwise.

Salah scored against Porto, scored in both legs against City, scored two against Roma (this average side who beat Barca 3-0 to get there, and stuffed you in the group stages) and then sadly went off injured against Real Madrid, after which Liverpool's threat level disappeared.

He also scored 5 in the group stages.

 

[Moonred]

Shouldn’t be hard to accept that Hazard over his career is much better than Salah and at the moment easily better this season. He is also incredible to watch. But Salah last season is very hard to beat in terms of productivity and impact for his team with little reward thankfully.

 

[hn4manunited]

Hazard is no doubt one of the best talents we'll see but to me is such a frustrating player to understand. He will just about always bust a gut with manager's first or second season. Once, they win something, his productivity and desire drops. He did amazing his first year with Conte and then didn't quite go missing but no where near his best. Then you see him this year. If Chelsea goes on to win the league this year, I suspect he might take a year off next season. This Chelsea squad is a really good squad. It has a good foundation that has been built over the span of many years.

 

[VorZakone]

You have to wonder where Salah's freak season came from. It was insane. He was scoring goals left and right week in week out. I don't get it. This is a guy who was known for being a pace merchant with inconsistent end product.

 

[Don Alfredo]

You have to wonder where Salah's freak season came from. It was insane. He was scoring goals left and right week in week out. I don't get it. This is a guy who was known for being a pace merchant with inconsistent end product.

There are several players which Klopp has made look world class before. Sahin, Kagawa, Gundogan, Goetze and Lewandowski all had their best individual seasons under Klopp and could not sustain their excellence under different circumstances. You could say Lewandowski maintained to continue playing on his level of 2012/2013, but he never reached that peak performance of scoring 4 goals in one CL semi-final match against Madrid again. He has been rather disappointing in the CL for Bayern in big matches.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

How about meeting Manchester City in the quarters, the team who got over 100 points in the premier league that season? They're better than any team Chelsea beat on their way to being comfortably beaten by Atletico.

That and what @giorno and @Mogget said. At no point has Hazard come close to what Salah did in Europe last season, stop trying to pretend otherwise.

Salah scored against Porto, scored in both legs against City, scored two against Roma (this average side who beat Barca 3-0 to get there, and stuffed you in the group stages) and then sadly went off injured against Real Madrid, after which Liverpool's threat level disappeared.

He also scored 5 in the group stages.

I'm not saying his CL campaign comes close, but this myth that Hazard does poorly in Europe has been dramatically overstated - saying that he's "never had an impact in Europe" is laughable.

 

[Major]

Mo Salah had a freak season, the output (goals+assists) of which eclipses strikers like Henry, Shearer, RVN, R9, Batistuta etc., let alone playmakers like Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho.

Our resident spurs supporter must think that all of these players were somehow overrated or inferior to Mo Salah , since they were all attacking players and couldn't produce a single season like Salah's 2017 - 18 season. Great logic, this.

Yep. They are all OVERATED WORLDCLASS players the lot. They've never been a one season wonder before and all that.

 

[Major]

At least the 3 points laner admits Hazard is the better player. Anything else I'm too bored to bother.

 

[RooneyLegend]

We've yet to see Hazard at his best, we're seeing that currently. We saw Salah at his best last season and he was incredible. If Salah plays at that level and Hazard maintains his current level It'll be an interesting debate.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

At least the 3 points laner admits Hazard is the better player. Anything else I'm too bored to bother.

It's funny when somebody has absolutely nothing to add to the debate so resorts to boring stuff.

Also '3 point lane' - does this even apply anymore? You lost the last couple of games there IIRC.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I'm not saying his CL campaign comes close, but this myth that Hazard does poorly in Europe has been dramatically overstated - saying that he's "never had an impact in Europe" is laughable.

He's had very little impact on Europe, I'm sorry to break it to you. One semi-final where the only team of note you knocked out was PSG (and he didn't play) simply isn't enough. I can't remember a single great Hazard performance in the CL against a top side.

Salah scored more CL goals (10) in one campaign than Hazard has managed in his entire career in the competition (8).

 

[Dec9003]

He's had very little impact on Europe, I'm sorry to break it to you. One semi-final where the only team of note you knocked out was PSG (and he didn't play) simply isn't enough. I can't remember a single great Hazard performance in the CL against a top side.

Salah scored more CL goals (10) in one campaign than Hazard has managed in his entire career in the competition (8).

He won the Europa league with Chelsea didn't he? It's not the champions league but it's nothing to turn your nose up to either.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He's had very little impact on Europe, I'm sorry to break it to you. One semi-final where the only team of note you knocked out was PSG (and he didn't play) simply isn't enough. I can't remember a single great Hazard performance in the CL against a top side.

Salah scored more CL goals (10) in one campaign than Hazard has managed in his entire career in the competition (8).

Again, you are measuring Hazard using the wrong stick. Suggesting that he doesn't have an impact because he doesn't score goals is silly.

Also, he did play (and score a penalty) in the first leg at PSG and went off in the second after 18 minutes having been fouled constantly. PSG's entire strategy for that tie and the one the next year was to kick the everliving shit out of Hazard - they correctly identified that if they butchered him sufficiently there was little else Chelsea could do in attack.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Again, you are measuring Hazard using the wrong stick. Suggesting that he doesn't have an impact because he doesn't score goals is silly.

Also, he did play (and score a penalty) in the first leg at PSG and went off in the second after 18 minutes having been fouled constantly. PSG's entire strategy for that tie and the one the next year was to kick the everliving shit out of Hazard - they correctly identified that if they butchered him sufficiently there was little else Chelsea could do in attack.

He doesn't score goals, he hasn't had any dominant performances against top sides .. what does he do?

Wow, he scored a penalty .. and of course PSG wanted to foul him, Hazard is clearly your best player and by far your biggest creative outlet. You still won without him. Look, he'll always be a player who is dangerous, beats his man a lot and looks exciting on the ball, but sorry I'm going to need more than being a threat in a game vs PSG. Do you honestly think Hazard's CL record is at all good?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

He won the Europa league with Chelsea didn't he? It's not the champions league but it's nothing to turn your nose up to either.

Had a little look at the tournament that year .. and Hazard scored 1 goal and got 1 assist, the goal coming against Sparta Prague. Torres seemed to be the MVP of that tournament for Chelsea.

They beat Sparta Prague, Steau Bucuresti, Rubin Kazan, Basel and Benfica to win the Europa League .. so meh.

 

[Dec9003]

Had a little look at the tournament that year .. and Hazard scored 1 goal and got 1 assist, the goal coming against Sparta Prague. Torres seemed to be the MVP of that tournament for Chelsea.

They beat Sparta Prague, Steau Bucuresti, Rubin Kazan, Basel and Benfica to win the Europa League .. so meh.

Not to be rude, but as a Tottenham supporter can you really meh at a European trophy?
He also captained his country to their best ever finish this year, Hes shown over the years he's a top quality footballer.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Not to be rude, but as a Tottenham supporter can you really meh at a European trophy?
He also captained his country to their best ever finish this year, Hes shown over the years he's a top quality footballer.

I'm not mehing at a European trophy, I'm saying his side beating those teams doesn't change his lack of accomplishments at Europe's top table. He was very good in the World Cup, and nobody is denying he's a top quality footballer .. the point is he's never had a season as good as Salah did last season, and a big reason for that is he's never had a standout campaign in the CL.

That's why these claims of him being 'by far the best in the league' are over the top, what exactly has he done to set himself apart from the other contenders?

 

[Dec9003]

I'm not mehing at a European trophy, I'm saying his side beating those teams doesn't change his lack of accomplishments at Europe's top table. He was very good in the World Cup, and nobody is denying he's a top quality footballer .. the point is he's never had a season as good as Salah did last season, and a big reason for that is he's never had a standout campaign in the CL.

That's why these claims of him being 'by far the best in the league' are over the top, what exactly has he done to set himself apart from the other contenders?

I'd argue being the second best player in the World Cup tops salahs champions league campaign last season.

 

[George The Best]

He’s a great player ffs. Anyone would like him in their team at the mo. For his size he’s so difficult to knock of the ball, like Messi and ....... George Best.

 

[DannyCAFC]

Goals don't really tell the whole story, to be honest.

Salah was Liverpool's main goalscorer outlet for most of the season (playing as the furthest man forward a LOT) and played in a gung-ho side with the likes of Mane, Firmino and Coutinho (for half a season) all on firing around him feeding him.

Hazard played in a pragmatic side largely devoid of the same threat that those other players mentioned above carry, and was tasked with being the creative outlet more so than Salah.

Both are terrific players, for me Hazard is the best player in the PL at top form. He can score goals when given the chance or pick a killer pass, and he's almost impossible to get the ball off sometimes (fairly) when he's charging up the pitch.

 

[Charles Miller]

Hazard is one the best players in the last 20 years imo. Is good to watch him even when he is not scoring. He is playing for a competitive club thet can win titles, but its not a dominant team. I believe the status of Hazard in the football world would be very different if he was playing for Barca or Madrid.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He doesn't score goals, he hasn't had any dominant performances against top sides .. what does he do?

Wow, he scored a penalty .. and of course PSG wanted to foul him, Hazard is clearly your best player and by far your biggest creative outlet. You still won without him. Look, he'll always be a player who is dangerous, beats his man a lot and looks exciting on the ball, but sorry I'm going to need more than being a threat in a game vs PSG. Do you honestly think Hazard's CL record is at all good?

You seem to focus solely on goalscoring as a sign of dominance, which is odd. Also, you're completely ignoring last year's matches vs. Atletico, where Hazard was by far the best player in both legs.

Also, how many opportunities has Hazard had against top sides in the CL?

13/14: PSG (injured during second leg), Atletico Madrid (injured for 1st leg, half fit for 2nd)
14/15: PSG
15/16: N/A (injured for tie vs. PSG)
16/17: N/A
17/18: Atletico Madrid, Roma(?), Barcelona (used out of position as a target man for whatever reason)
18/19: N/A

So he's played 10 matches against top opposition in the CL. He was the best player on the pitch in both legs against Atletico in 17/18 and the first leg against Roma in 17/18. He was Chelsea's best player in the first leg against PSG 13/14 and both legs against PSG 14/15. This notion that he's been poor in Europe is just flat out misguided and only carries weight if you're attributing an outsized proportion of Chelsea's failings to him.

 

[giorno]

He hasn't been poor in Europe. He hasn't been world class in Europe.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I'd argue being the second best player in the World Cup tops salahs champions league campaign last season.

How?

The CL is the pinnacle in terms of quality. How on earth does reaching a semi-final of the World Cup, with one of the best teams in the competition, top getting to the final of the CL with an unfancied one whilst scoring 10 goals in the process?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

You seem to focus solely on goalscoring as a sign of dominance, which is odd. Also, you're completely ignoring last year's matches vs. Atletico, where Hazard was by far the best player in both legs.

Also, how many opportunities has Hazard had against top sides in the CL?

13/14: PSG (injured during second leg), Atletico Madrid (injured for 1st leg, half fit for 2nd)
14/15: PSG
15/16: N/A (injured for tie vs. PSG)
16/17: N/A
17/18: Atletico Madrid, Roma(?), Barcelona (used out of position as a target man for whatever reason)
18/19: N/A

So he's played 10 matches against top opposition in the CL. He was the best player on the pitch in both legs against Atletico in 17/18 and the first leg against Roma in 17/18. He was Chelsea's best player in the first leg against PSG 13/14 and both legs against PSG 14/15. This notion that he's been poor in Europe is just flat out misguided and only carries weight if you're attributing an outsized proportion of Chelsea's failings to him.

I'm saying you can get away without having dominant performances, if you score goals. I don't think Hazard has had enough dominant CL performances to outweigh his lack of return. Also, the matches against Atletico last season were in the group stages where they were horrible and dropped in to the EL. You're calling Roma average despite them qualifying whereas Atletico did not.

He's not been poor he's just been average, nothing of note in the CL. A few good performances against good sides doesn't change that, especially when it seems most of them were in the groups. He hasn't done anything which stands out, perhaps you can attribute that to the team he plays for but it's still a mark against him and will still impact people's thinking when they rate the best players in the world. He hasn't come up with blockbuster moments in a competition where the world's best players shine and do exactly that.

 

[Dec9003]

How?

The CL is the pinnacle in terms of quality. How on earth does reaching a semi-final of the World Cup, with one of the best teams in the competition, top getting to the final of the CL with an unfancied one whilst scoring 10 goals in the process?

I'm not sure really who they were Unfancied against in their run bar Madrid who quite rightfully brushed them aside.
It also helps when you're a forward if your manager is pretty ridiculously attack minded, they conceded a few against Roma but it didn't matter because it was all about getting that ball to Salah.
If he played in Chelsea's more conservative roles over the past few years Salah wouldn't have scored nearly as many.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Wish he would have finished that move at 1:10 himself. Would have topped the Liverpool goal.

 

[Synco]

Hazard is no doubt one of the best talents we'll see but to me is such a frustrating player to understand. He will just about always bust a gut with manager's first or second season. Once, they win something, his productivity and desire drops. He did amazing his first year with Conte and then didn't quite go missing but no where near his best. Then you see him this year. If Chelsea goes on to win the league this year, I suspect he might take a year off next season. This Chelsea squad is a really good squad. It has a good foundation that has been built over the span of many years.

It's less of a mystery when you don't look at Hazard individually, but take the team's form and tactics into consideration. Players obviously perform better when the team is working well.

I didn't see him taking a year off last season, and I don't think his desire or even his individual productivity dropped. His offensive stats were equal or better to his 16/17 PL campaign, despite team cohesion being way worse and Conte's tactics leaving him more isolated. The effort was usually there, even when he was repeatedly put into that strange CF (not even quite false 9) role. He was pissed off after the City game, but tried to make things happen when on the pitch. And he did have some outstanding games, like against Roma (H), Atletico (A), or Southampton (FA Cup semis).

Not as good/decisive as the year before, but definitely not as far away from that as some people say. No big deal, given the circumstances.

 

[Mark_Barca]

It's unreal the amount of lies, myths and excuses made for Hazard such as carrying Chelsea in the CL not playing in an attacking team(Doesn't deliver regularly for Belgium) and then whole Salah argument about productivity. Chances created to hype a player, deary me....

 

[RobinLFC]

It's unreal the amount of lies, myths and excuses made for Hazard such as carrying Chelsea in the CL not playing in an attacking team(Doesn't deliver regularly for Belgium) and then whole Salah argument about productivity. Chances created to hype a player, deary me....

Myth that's simply not true anymore, he's been our best and most consistent performer for more than two years now.

 

[Mark_Barca]

Myth that's simply not true anymore, he's been our best and most consistent performer for more than two years now.

Have to disagree on this one, even at the world cup his overall tournament is being massively overrated just like England's did!

Not going to get me wax lyrical over performances against Tunisia and Panama or an irrelevant third place play off match. He was average against Japan.

He had a a couple of good games(not great) against Brazil and France but lacked creativity and productivity. It's all nice being good on the eye when dribbling into non dangerous areas and winning fouls, but it's often irrelevant. How come Neymar doesn't get praised for 'winning fouls' ? Hazard is talented and has had some world class performances, but he's not consistent enough in Europe or Internationally to be regarded as highly as he is.

27 goals in 97 games for Belgium, it's decent, but when you take into account 12 are penalties it's then nowhere near impressive for an apparent top 5 in the world footballer! That's without going into context about those being against minnows and the only two teams of note he has scored against is France in a friendly and England in practically a friendly as well.

Before the usual replies occur about it's not all about stats, I fully appreciate that being a huge fan of Xavi and Iniesta, later never was statistically great. However I think that's the go to excuse for Hazard who's role as a wide forward with a free role is to score and create and do it consistently and especially in the big games, which he doesn't do enough and certainly has not in Europe for the hype he receives.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

It's unreal the amount of lies, myths and excuses made for Hazard such as carrying Chelsea in the CL not playing in an attacking team(Doesn't deliver regularly for Belgium) and then whole Salah argument about productivity. Chances created to hype a player, deary me....

Precisely.

It's excuse after excuse after excuse, apparently he's his own special brand of player that can't be judged by productivity, apparently it's the fault of the teams he plays for etc .. honestly it's comical at this point.

I dunno why people can't just accept he's a brilliant player, fantastic to watch .. but one with his own weaknesses and failings, and that he still has a lot to prove in the CL and in terms of improving the amount of goals/assists he manages.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I'm not sure really who they were Unfancied against in their run bar Madrid who quite rightfully brushed them aside.
It also helps when you're a forward if your manager is pretty ridiculously attack minded, they conceded a few against Roma but it didn't matter because it was all about getting that ball to Salah.
If he played in Chelsea's more conservative roles over the past few years Salah wouldn't have scored nearly as many.

Manchester City? The team who were miles ahead of them in the league and put up there as the favourites by many. Nobody was predicting Liverpool to reach the CL final, and they only got brushed aside by Madrid after Salah went off injured, before that they looked threatening.

Yeah, the whole 'attack minded' aspect falls to pieces with the slightest bit of analysis. Liverpool last season in the league scored 84 goals, Chelsea in 16/17 scored 85. They scored 5 goals on a number of occasions, regularly scored 3 or 4 (including a 4-0 win against Manchester United) and were a deadly counter attacking side, which should suit Hazard to a tee. Salah if anything could have scored more in that side, they had higher quality players in midfield and a better structure about them.

 

[Dec9003]

Manchester City? The team who were miles ahead of them in the league and put up there as the favourites by many. Nobody was predicting Liverpool to reach the CL final, and they only got brushed aside by Madrid after Salah went off injured, before that they looked threatening.

Yeah, the whole 'attack minded' aspect falls to pieces with the slightest bit of analysis. Liverpool last season in the league scored 84 goals, Chelsea in 16/17 scored 85. They scored 5 goals on a number of occasions, regularly scored 3 or 4 (including a 4-0 win against Manchester United) and were a deadly counter attacking side, which should suit Hazard to a tee. Salah if anything could have scored more in that side, they had higher quality players in midfield and a better structure about them.

I don't know, Klopp seems to get the better of Pep often enough, he seems to know how to best him.
In the 16/17 season who was the main goalscorer for Chelsea? It wasn't Hazard.
Teams have main goal scorers, take Tottenham for example.
Kane is the target of the balls through, the crosses etc.
Hazard isn't that for Chelsea, nor is he supposed to be.
The fact that you keep banging on saying it's all about goals shows you just simply don't know enough when it comes to what makes an attacking player a top player, there's so much more to it than saying well x player scored y goals so he's the best.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I don't know, Klopp seems to get the better of Pep often enough, he seems to know how to best him.
In the 16/17 season who was the main goalscorer for Chelsea? It wasn't Hazard.
Teams have main goal scorers, take Tottenham for example.
Kane is the target of the balls through, the crosses etc.
Hazard isn't that for Chelsea, nor is he supposed to be.
The fact that you keep banging on saying it's all about goals shows you just simply don't know enough when it comes to what makes an attacking player a top player, there's so much more to it than saying well x player scored y goals so he's the best.

Klopp had a good record over Pep, sure ... but that season City beat them 5-0 at home and lost 3-2 away. They were firm favourites even if nobody expected a walkover.

I'm not only banging on about goals, but Hazard doesn't get enough goals OR assists for an attacking wide player if he wants to be viewed as one of the very best in the world, that is the expectation now. I'm not saying x scored more than y so he's better, I'm saying Salah scored more, assisted more, AND had more impact on Europe, so he had a better season. Goals are just one factor, Salah scored 32 of them which is fecking incredible, he also assisted twice as many as Hazard did in 2014/1015 .. but Hazard beat him on 'chances created' so I guess that's that.

You tried to portray Hazard as suffering from being in a defensive side, I disproved that and now he didn't score more because he wasn't the 'main goalscorer'. It's excuse after excuse for his relatively unimpressive productivity for a player considered by some as 'by far the best' in the league. At what point do people just admit he's great, brilliant to watch, but needs to be more decisive in the final third? His own managers have said he needs to be more selfish and have more of a killer instinct.

Oh and by the way, Kane might be our main goalscorer, but others like Alli have managed 18 in a league season, Son managed 14 goals and 6 assists too in 16/17. This idea that only the primary goalscorer can do well statistically is just nonsense, and these players have a fraction of the talent Hazard possesses, and don't take set pieces or penalties. Our biggest creative talent, Eriksen, scored 10 and assisted 10 in 17/18 .. none of these goals were from set pieces.

Hazard is just not a productive player. He needlessly dribbles when he should be making the pass, he passes when he should shoot, and in general isn't direct enough with his play.

 

[Dec9003]

Klopp had a good record over Pep, sure ... but that season City beat them 5-0 at home and lost 3-2 away. They were firm favourites even if nobody expected a walkover.

I'm not only banging on about goals, but Hazard doesn't get enough goals OR assists for an attacking wide player if he wants to be viewed as one of the very best in the world, that is the expectation now. I'm not saying x scored more than y so he's better, I'm saying Salah scored more, assisted more, AND had more impact on Europe, so he had a better season. Goals are just one factor, Salah scored 32 of them which is fecking incredible, he also assisted twice as many as Hazard did in 2014/1015 .. but Hazard beat him on 'chances created' so I guess that's that.

You tried to portray Hazard as suffering from being in a defensive side, I disproved that and now he didn't score more because he wasn't the 'main goalscorer'. It's excuse after excuse for his relatively unimpressive productivity for a player considered by some as 'by far the best' in the league. At what point do people just admit he's great, brilliant to watch, but needs to be more decisive in the final third? His own managers have said he needs to be more selfish and have more of a killer instinct.

Oh and by the way, Kane might be our main goalscorer, but others like Alli have managed 18 in a league season, Son managed 14 goals and 6 assists too in 16/17. This idea that only the primary goalscorer can do well statistically is just nonsense, and these players have a fraction of the talent Hazard possesses, and don't take set pieces or penalties. Our biggest creative talent, Eriksen, scored 10 and assisted 10 in 17/18 .. none of these goals were from set pieces.

Hazard is just not a productive player. He needlessly dribbles when he should be making the pass, he passes when he should shoot, and in general isn't direct enough with his play.

Hazard has had seasons in which he scored 14(x2), 16 and 12
He has scored more than ten goals in 4 seasons, which is productive for a wide player. So if Son, Alli etc are doing well statistically then so is Hazard surely?
Scoring more than ten goals, getting some assists, creating a lot of chances and winning trophies with regularity shows that he is a productive player. Especially considering that whether you like it or not, Hazard has never played under a manager that isn't conservative in his play in the premier league.
Sure, he could stick upfront and limit his game, using his ability to get away from players to get shots away, but in my opinion that isn't getting the best out of him, he's much more than that, just in the same way that Alli and Son don't offer a lot more than that.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Hazard has had seasons in which he scored 14(x2), 16 and 12
He has scored more than ten goals in 4 seasons, which is productive for a wide player. So if Son, Alli etc are doing well statistically then so is Hazard surely?
Scoring more than ten goals, getting some assists, creating a lot of chances and winning trophies with regularity shows that he is a productive player. Especially considering that whether you like it or not, Hazard has never played under a manager that isn't conservative in his play in the premier league.
Sure, he could stick upfront and limit his game, using his ability to get away from players to get shots away, but in my opinion that isn't getting the best out of him, he's much more than that, just in the same way that Alli and Son don't offer a lot more than that.

Son and Alli are half the players Hazard is. He should be smashing them statistically.

He's had a few seasons of double figures for goals (whilst being the sides main penalty taker) and never reached double figures for assists, how is that good enough for a wide attacker considered the best player in the league and one of the best in the world?

*Shows you Chelsea scored 85 goals, shows you they had games where they destroyed sides, gets told 'whether I like it or not' he's been held back by conservative play*. ... ok then

You don't need to be stuck upfront to get more goals & assists .. you just need to make better decisions in the final third, which is Hazard's big weakness. His decision making is often poor, and he lacks the ruthless streak which defines some of the world's best. He's insanely good on the ball and should be registering more goals and assists, he's not a central midfielder and is often in and around the box.