Eden Hazard
- Thread starter Adisa
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First, take a chill pill. You're way too butthurt that I might prefer Hazard to Salah.
Once youre calm and thinking straight go back and find the original context. Then connect the dots instead of skipping key ones and twisting meaning. And finally once that's all set in your head, don't bother replying me back. Can't be bothered with someone that doubles down on using a term I asked them not to.
I don't care if you prefer Hazard to Salah, I think the former is the better player. I just think Salah had a better season than Hazard has ever managed, and that your logic is hilariously flawed. I haven't 'twisted meaning', go back and look at your own post .. it's pretty clear what you're saying, hence why multiple people have called you up on it.
'Waaaa he called my opinion stupid'.
Why are we comparing Hazard to Salah? Salah had a really good fluke season that he will never replicate. Hazard is at least 2 levels above Salah in terms of ability.
Overrated goal
Hazard's decision making, especially for final pass is nowhere near Messi's. A lot of the time he dwells too much and miss the time to pass, not a dig at Hazard, just a testament to how Messi is just in different level in terms of vision and final ball. Hazard's dribbling is definitely as good IMO.
How many awards did he win then? One season of greatness and he's now better than a player that has been doing it for 6 season now. Hazard has won personal awards in both France and England. 2nd best player at a world cup and led his Chelsea team to two titles. What did Salah's productiveness lead him to? Oh wait nothing. Not one medal.
THIS THIS AND THIS!
Its the biggest difference between him and Messi, Hazard will 8/10 times look to bring a teammate into play than shoot. Then you have times where he makes a pass to a teammate that wasn't really a good option to do.
As he said today, He prefers team glory than personal ones. As long as he helps the team to win a trophy he is good.
There's people on here saying his main problem is he's too selfish!
They clearly don't even watch him so I don't know why they bother commenting
Oh god yeah, give me Hazard over Salah any day.
I spoke to a liverpool fan on twitter who claims Mane, Salah, van Dijk, alisson, Silva and KDB all better players. I nearly choked
Interesting quote when asked about his new contract. Praised Sarri and how much better he feels now he gets the ball a lot, then said "i havent signed a contract, not yet, not yet"
Very interesting.
I think if we compete this year and ultimately continue playing good football, coupled with spending in either January or Summer to match then he will sign a new contract.
I cant see him signing however if we hold back funds again in the Summer or target lesser players or miss out on top 4.
Aww bless, they are living in a little bubble at the moment. They even think TAA is the dogs bollox, bless their little cotton socks.
Better players than Hazard?
As a Liverpool fan I would swap Salah for Hazard. Salah was the main man last season but Hazard is proven over several seasons to be a top player plus he can play in that number 10 role we seem to be lacking. Hazard in behind Firmino, Mane and a top RW would out score any team.
That said Salah isn't playing as bad as some people would make out this season, the chances are there he just hasn't had that killer instinct he had last season. Nothing to say it won't click into place yet though.
That said Salah isn't playing as bad as some people would make out this season, the chances are there he just hasn't had that killer instinct he had last season. Nothing to say it won't click into place yet though.
I'm not arguing Salah is a better player than Hazard, he's not, because Hazard has done it over a longer period of time. That doesn't change the fact that Salah last season was better and more productive than anything Hazard has managed. I don't care what Liverpool won, Salah can't help the fact that Manchester City existed or that Liverpool's defence for the first half of the season was woeful. He also can't help coming off in a CL final when injured.
In the CL he scored 10 and assisted 4, and in the league scored 32 and assisted 10. He had an insane, freakishly productive season, you couldn't ask for more. If Hazard put up these numbers I guarantee every Chelsea fan going would be declaring him the world's best player, considering he becomes far and away the best in the league when manages half that. Hazard has had numerous seasons playing in the CL (where elite players are mostly judged) and Salah had more of an impact on the competition in the one season he had at Liverpool.
This crap about 'HE DIDN'T EVEN WIN A MEDAL' is so irrelevant it hurts. You could replace Salah with Hazard and I guarantee Liverpool don't suddenly win the league or Champions League last season. You don't judge individual players on trophies their club has won because it's an incredibly unfair and illogical thing to do, you can only judge them on their individual contributions.
I'd put Hazard above Salah because I belivie a fully motivated Hazard is the best player in the world after Messi and Ronaldo. But the fact that Salah didn't either win any personal awards or the team didn't win any trophies isn't really a fair comparison, he had Minoglet and Karius doing everthing they could to prevent Liverpool from being winning any team award (thankfully). And Paul Scholes never won any individual wards yet is regarded as one of the greatest midfielders of the modern era.
Bah discussions in comparisons of such top players tends be rather irrelevant for practicle matter since much depend on the system, the coach, the other players around it, even the style. Indeed the discussion regarding Hazard flared up in good part due to the change with Sarri. The world cup left an impression too, but also one where the nominal best player in the world could not make the difference for an otherwise quality laden national team. Perhaps the impression is entertained that if one can perform outside his normal system in the world cup that he should be regarded more complete for his position, though the managers of teams will often addapt the strategy to fit the most important players. Notably even for the NT Hazard was underperforming under Wilmots tenure and excelling with Martinez, and that didn't nessecarily always follow the trend in form with Chelsea.
Ive presume that psychologicly we build those time related biases often witought really being aware of it. Afcourse i would not want to claim that all people fall for this and notably those who tend to show more interrest seem to have a far more nuanced view, but on average i think the vast majority of those discussions are words in the wind.
Ive presume that psychologicly we build those time related biases often witought really being aware of it. Afcourse i would not want to claim that all people fall for this and notably those who tend to show more interrest seem to have a far more nuanced view, but on average i think the vast majority of those discussions are words in the wind.
Scholes was winning thing with Man Utd. And he was a standout not for one season but over the life time of his career. That's the difference, Salah has one outstanding season then people start talking about him being the best etc etc. Cr7 Messi has been doing this 10 years running Hazard has been the best over the 6 seasons and winning titles to beat.
Thats how i judge a player not just by talent and skill but how many years have they been doing this. Salah is only in the discussion cause he scored alot of goals last season.
Haha someone posted the video of Hazard scoring against Liverpool on PornHub.
That winner against the Scouse was incredible.
Almost nobody is saying this. Not even most Liverpool fans.
All that was said/the source of the argument in this thread was that Salah last season hit heights Hazard has never reached. Of course, Hazard has done it far more consistently and is the better footballer .. but that's not what the discussion is about.
I dont agree that Hazard has never hit the level Salah did.
Salah scored more goals yeah but Hazard is more of a creative player, it's difficult to remember a player that glides with the ball like an inform Hazard does.
I often tune in to Chelsea just to watch the guy play, there are few other players that I can remember that are so exciting to watch.
Salah scored more goals yeah but Hazard is more of a creative player, it's difficult to remember a player that glides with the ball like an inform Hazard does.
I often tune in to Chelsea just to watch the guy play, there are few other players that I can remember that are so exciting to watch.
He's back to his very best. If only they had sold him when he wanted out this off session.
'Exciting to watch' doesn't = at the same level.
Also, Salah last season managed more assists than Hazard ever has in the league. Twice as many as fact. So he was creating chances for others .. he was also absolutely incredible to watch, I dunno how anybody could have seen Salah last season and not been on the edge of your seat whenever he got the ball, he was magical. Some of his goals were out of this world amazing .. that would be all 32 of them in the league by the way, twice as many as Hazard has ever managed in a season (and I'm gunna go ahead and say Hazard scored a lot of pens that year).
He also did it in the CL, which Hazard never has. Salah was just far more consistent and productive than Hazard has ever been, that's just a fact, he had a season where he was putting up Messi/Ronaldo numbers. If Hazard was at that level he'd be consistently up there for the Ballon d'or, which he isn't because whilst being an incredible player his productivity is lacking.
They're both attacking wide players but Salah scored & assisted at twice the rate in the league, whilst doing far more in Europe .. I don't get how it could even be an argument. If Hazard scored 32 and assisted 10 in the league, Chelsea fans would be declaring him the GOAT.
yes. Said van dijk, alisson, de gea and alderweireld might play different positions, but they are better for what they offer.
I know, mental isnt it
There is some serious bias this year from their direction. The side we beat Wednesday was a liverpool reserve team (ours was hardly full strength) according to them. Nice to see £60m Keita already binned off then
on a side note:
Thorgan Hazard has 6 goals and 2 assists in 7 games so far this season for Monchengladbach. Remarkably similar to Eden's 7 goals and 2 assists in 8 games.
Thorgan Hazard has 6 goals and 2 assists in 7 games so far this season for Monchengladbach. Remarkably similar to Eden's 7 goals and 2 assists in 8 games.
While Salah may have had much more output result-wise in his best season, we've never seen Hazard in a completely attacking-minded modern style of play until Sarri arrived. Mourinho's and Conte's teams are more or less the complete opposite.
You should not underestimate the influence of the system on the goal and assist output of a player. Just look at Mertens - he was turned into a 30+ goals a season player under Sarri and he is clearly a lesser footballer than Hazard in any aspect of the game. Messi would never have become the goal machine he has been in the last ten years if Guardiola didn't have this vision for him and played him out wide or as a classic number 10. The same for Cristiano under SAF and to a lesser extent also Salah under Klopp.
I believe if Hazard had played under Sarri as a 20 year old, he would have reached these stats much earlier and from then on other managers would've used him in the same way and built their systems around him.
You should not underestimate the influence of the system on the goal and assist output of a player. Just look at Mertens - he was turned into a 30+ goals a season player under Sarri and he is clearly a lesser footballer than Hazard in any aspect of the game. Messi would never have become the goal machine he has been in the last ten years if Guardiola didn't have this vision for him and played him out wide or as a classic number 10. The same for Cristiano under SAF and to a lesser extent also Salah under Klopp.
I believe if Hazard had played under Sarri as a 20 year old, he would have reached these stats much earlier and from then on other managers would've used him in the same way and built their systems around him.
Somehow a very difficult concept for football people to understand.
I am prepared to bet that Hazard won't ever reach Salah's output of last season, regardless of what system you put him in.
I would bet that Salah will not reach that output level again either.
See, this is why I’ve been so critical of Hazard over the years on here. The way he’s playing at the moment is the Hazard I always thought was in there. He was never ruthless enough for my liking. He seemed to take great pride in being difficult to dispossess, and I always sense his main objective is to twist and turn around his marker until he’s inevitably kicked, leading the conversation to how much he gets fouled, whereas Kevin’s first thought is to get on with it.
This Hazard is what I expect. Someone who can reach Messi-like levels.
This Hazard is what I expect. Someone who can reach Messi-like levels.
So the game finishes 1-0 to Salah?
Sure, the entire careers should be decided on one fluke season.
Keeps it tidy decided that.
Not a chance. Messi-like levels are 45-50 goals in terms of goals + assists. In the league alone. Hazard's best season won't compare with Messi's worst over the last 10 years.
You have to blame your whole understanding of him and his team then, a lot of us could see all Hazard needed was an attacking manager, to be fair even Messi wouldn’t perform the same way if Barcelona hadn’t have a string of attacking managers and players devoted to getting the best out of him.
How can you criticise a former of a player of the year for not being able to match the greatest player of all time, in circumstances that haven’t been favourable to him, for Belgium under an attacking manager he was already performing Messi like for the last year or so.
I’ve explained my specific reasons in detail in my actual post I think. You may not agree with them, of course, but you certainly haven’t referenced them once in your reply.