Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition

[Kush]

The big in bold isn't true at all, do you realize the numbers behind the Sanchez transfer? It's easily costing the club £150m over the duration of Sanchez contract.

A large portion of those funds were paid up front as per our financial reports proved.

This is why the "Jose wasn't backed last summer" argument is rubbish!

Signing on fee of £29m, agent fee £10m

What non-sense is this? First and foremost his final wage figure isn't true. It's £391,000 a week with added £75,000 for every appearance. The reason for those inflated figures is largely due to the nature of transfer with no additional transfer fee, his signing-on fee is no where you claim it to be. Also why are you pointing to the figures of his entire contract? Mkhitaryan was not on peanuts either, adding Sanchez has inflated our wage bill but it's hardly a figure which a club our size can't afford.

The club (see Woodward) fecked up by not investing in positions we desperately needed last summer, no amount of money being wasted on likes of Sanchez (and dozens of players before that) can justify that. We have wasted money like a drunk sailor for 5 years and inexplicably there have been still no changes to sort that out. Also, give our dire state of squad £130m in space of 3 windows is nowhere enough but carry on with your love in with Glazers and Woodward.

But if Woodward hadn't signed Sanchez, then he is blamed for not supporting the manager.

When he signs the player he is also blamed.

Which is what I've said throughout this thread and fecking daft of our supporters.

Rewind back to just before signing Sanchez, he was easily top 3 forwards / attackers in the league still. Kane and Aguero were the only to ahead of him in Dec 2017.

There was no transfer fee involved but because of that then he could demand massive wages and obviously because of his performances up to that point.

If he had delivered and not been routinely injured since the signing none of us would care what he earns.

On a side note, I've only recently read his had a single month off to recover in 5 years. He's gone from premier league to champions league to international duty and everything in between non stop. I'm not overly surprised the injuries are catching up with him now, especially considering how much he works per game.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? Mourinho didn't negotiate Sanchez contract, it was Woodward, Matt Judge and rest of his cronies. Sanchez isn't the only player in our squad who is on massively inflated wages. Martial is on £250k a week, Rashford is on £200k a week, Shaw and Rojo are on £160k a week. Don't blame the manager for the sheer incompetence of the board when it comes to negotiation. Woodward deserves stick for the way he has managed this club, from hiring managers with completely different philosophies to having archaic structure with incompetent people running the footballing side of the matter. If that's not enough, he has the final say who's brought in and can veto the manager in-charge of the club (see last summer).

What's this '£30m transfer fee' that doesn't exist?

He added his valuation as a player to the overall number, plus the entire duration of Sanchez contract. He should work for Sun, will fit right in with the other hacks writing for that paper

 

[UnitedObsession99]

Unless Woodward signs Maguire for £60m, Fernandes for £40m, Sancho for £70m and Longstaff for £20m, you really have to question what he has been doing.

He is already at the point that this summer is a failure unless he pulls out a load of deals at cut prices, which is highly highly unlikely.

He should have learnt from the Fellaini debacle. The long game doesn't always result in optimal pricing!

Leicester aren't taking less than £80m for Maguire, Sporting probably want £70m minimum for Fernandes. Newcastle might accept £45m for Longstaff but no less as no real point in them selling for less. They can make more playing the long game and get benefit for more seasons. Sancho isn't coming till next summer at best!

The more time that passes, the more this summer looks a recipe for disaster. Yes we could give some time to our youngsters, but that's playing a very dangerous game, especially with Arsenal and Spurs making the investments to keep up their top 4 pushes. Even Everton are looking to make big moves. Wolves have made tweaks and kept their core. Leicester have kept their core and made some tweaks.

I still think we'll be in the fight for that 4th spot, but signings Maguire and Fernandes would make it almost a sure thing.

 

[Keefy18]

What's this '£30m transfer fee' that doesn't exist?

There was a transfer fee. He was valued at £30m.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...transfer-manchester-united-arsenal-confirmed/
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0117/934111-sanchez-top-pay/

Every media outlet runs figures somewhere between £150-180m.

When folks look at transfers they don't think about the extras at all like signing on fees, agent fees, image rights etc etc. It is added onto the transfer fee as well.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

But if Woodward hadn't signed Sanchez, then he is blamed for not supporting the manager.

When he signs the player he is also blamed.

Which is what I've said throughout this thread and fecking daft of our supporters.

Rewind back to just before signing Sanchez, he was easily top 3 forwards / attackers in the league still. Kane and Aguero were the only to ahead of him in Dec 2017.

There was no transfer fee involved but because of that then he could demand massive wages and obviously because of his performances up to that point.

If he had delivered and not been routinely injured since the signing none of us would care what he earns.

On a side note, I've only recently read his had a single month off to recover in 5 years. He's gone from premier league to champions league to international duty and everything in between non stop. I'm not overly surprised the injuries are catching up with him now, especially considering how much he works per game.

I am not disputing the fact that he was one of the top attackers in the league before we bought him. Regarding the point in bold I would care, as I previously stated I wasn't happy with him getting paid such high wages as any talented signings we make would want at least what he's on if they think they have a similar level of talent.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

The big in bold isn't true at all, do you realize the numbers behind the Sanchez transfer? It's easily costing the club £150m over the duration of Sanchez contract.

A large portion of those funds were paid up front as per our financial reports proved.

This is why the "Jose wasn't backed last summer" argument is rubbish!

Jose was a pain in the neck, but he's not stupid, and there's no way he'd have agreed to this signing if he thought it'd knock him in the summer.

Sanchez was almost certainly a vanity signing for the Glazers/Ed, & another sponsorship enticing 'big name' player, I don't think Jose was ever the same after he joined, most likely because he never wanted him.

 

[Keefy18]

Signing on fee of £29m, agent fee £10m

What non-sense is this? First and foremost his final wage figure isn't true. It's £391,000 a week with added £75,000 for every appearance. The reason for those inflated figures is largely due to the nature of transfer with no additional transfer fee, his signing-on fee is no where you claim it to be. Also why are you pointing to the figures of his entire contract? Mkhitaryan was not on peanuts either, adding Sanchez has inflated our wage bill but it's hardly a figure which a club our size can't afford.

The club (see Woodward) fecked up by not investing in positions we desperately needed last summer, no amount of money being wasted on likes of Sanchez (and dozens of players before that) can justify that. We have wasted money like a drunk sailor for 5 years and inexplicably there have been still no changes to sort that out. Also, give our dire state of squad £130m in space of 3 windows is nowhere enough but carry on with your love in with Glazers and Woodward.

Nonsense? The only nonsense I see is the rubbish your posting.

Actually it is exactly as I claim it to be, do you want to know how I know, cause our finances are public knowledge for all to see. In the quarterly report after his signing for United there was a specific increase of £28m in the wage section of the financials.

No other player was signed in Jan 2018 and no other players got that significant a pay rise, I don't think we even renewed a players contract in that window if memory serves right.

So pray tell where that huge increase came from then cause you seem to know better?

A question for you, if Woodward didn't sign Sanchez he is beating with the "he isn't supporting the manager s*it your posting. If he does pay up and sign a player like Sanchez then we get more s*it like "he's spending like an idiot".

This is the level of intelligent debate you get from supporters hating on the board. There is no sense to be found in it what so ever.

 

[Keefy18]

Jose was a pain in the neck, but he's not stupid, and there's no way he'd have agreed to this signing if he thought it'd knock him in the summer.

Sanchez was almost certainly a vanity signing for the Glazers/Ed, & another sponsorship enticing 'big name' player, I don't think Jose was ever the same after he joined, most likely because he never wanted him.

Jose's no idiot? Really?

This is the same Jose who went public right after this Sanchez signing demanding Fellaini be kept.

He forced Judge / Woodwards hand into giving Fellaini a new deal with pay rise, but he isn't an idiot?

No surprise Fellaini was right out the door after Jose last winter.

This "vanity project" stuff is nonsense and the galactico signings were a hallmark of Jose's tenure, hence our wage bill all but doubled (46%) in 2 fecking years!

When folks bother their arse to do research then the penny drops and you see where the blame lies for our current woes, it was firmly at the door of the miserable one.

 

[macheda14]

There was a transfer fee. He was valued at £30m.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...transfer-manchester-united-arsenal-confirmed/
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0117/934111-sanchez-top-pay/

Every media outlet runs figures somewhere between £150-180m.

When folks look at transfers they don't think about the extras at all like signing on fees, agent fees, image rights etc etc. It is added onto the transfer fee as well.

Yes everything else all adds up.However, he was valued at £30 million as was Henrikh. So us swapping Mkhitaryan for Sanchez wouldn't affect our finances because that 30 million wasn't spent. You wouldn't call it a transfer fee, because it was a player swap valued at 30 mill.

 

[Keefy18]

Yes everything else all adds up.However, he was valued at £30 million as was Henrikh. So us swapping Mkhitaryan for Sanchez wouldn't affect our finances because that 30 million wasn't spent. You wouldn't call it a transfer fee, because it was a player swap valued at 30 mill.

Henrikh wasn't valued at £30m! That fee was of £30m was paid to Arsenal or it will be in installments (as is standard practice with transfers).
https://www.espn.com/soccer/english...nchez-henrikh-mkhitaryan-swap-deal-come-about

As I've posted above our own public financial records show a spike specifically in the transfer fees after this deal was done. At a guess I would suggest that spike was made up of partial transfer fee, agent fee and partial signing on fee (which is also paid out over the duration of the players contract).

 

[Kush]

Nonsense? The only nonsense I see is the rubbish your posting.

Actually it is exactly as I claim it to be, do you want to know how I know, cause our finances are public knowledge for all to see. In the quarterly report after his signing for United there was a specific increase of £28m in the wage section of the financials.

No other player was signed in Jan 2018 and no other players got that significant a pay rise, I don't think we even renewed a players contract in that window if memory serves right.

So pray tell where that huge increase came from then cause you seem to know better?

A question for you, if Woodward didn't sign Sanchez he is beating with the "he isn't supporting the manager s*it your posting. If he does pay up and sign a player like Sanchez then we get more s*it like "he's spending like an idiot".

This is the level of intelligent debate you get from supporters hating on the board. There is no sense to be found in it what so ever.

It is nonsense because you're plucking £180m figure from hacks who are pretending to be journalists. A wage spike can also be due to certain contract renewals or certain players being promoted from academy to main team or certain bonuses being paid. It isn't as cut and dry as pinning it entirely on Sanchez.

Have you ever considered it is possible to support the manager and not spend like a total idiot? Basically, what every top club in the world is doing save for us.

Also, funny how you completely ignored how Woodward has continuously appointed managers with different philosophies because it doesn't suit your narrative "Jose is evil, hurr hurr!". Nor have you said anything about a CEO having final say on transfers or having a shambles of footballing structure with incompetent people around him who continuously overpay in fees and wages for every single player. There was plenty wrong at the club long before Mourinho stepped a foot in, to say our current woes are entirely due to Mourinho shows how out of touch you are with reality, just to push you silly agenda. Fact of the matter is, Mourinho is the most successful Man Utd manager post-Fergie. The same squad with which he achieved a 2nd place finish 14 months ago, which was apparently capable of 'so much more' is now suddenly not good enough. I wonder why

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Jose's no idiot? Really?

This is the same Jose who went public right after this Sanchez signing demanding Fellaini be kept.

He forced Judge / Woodwards hand into giving Fellaini a new deal with pay rise, but he isn't an idiot?

No surprise Fellaini was right out the door after Jose last winter.

This "vanity project" stuff is nonsense and the galactico signings were a hallmark of Jose's tenure, hence our wage bill all but doubled (46%) in 2 fecking years!

When folks bother their arse to do research then the penny drops and you see where the blame lies for our current woes, it was firmly at the door of the miserable one.

Jose was not suited to us, but he is certainly no fool, he was right about us needing a new CB, & was he so wrong about Fellaini? He knew he could do a job for his style, and in the end we got a transfer fee when the next manager didn't fancy him, a lot more than we're likely to get for Jones & Mata that's for sure.

The vanity project is not nonsense, and it started when LvG was here, it sells shirts, it gets sponsors, and when you get it right it helps the team, but we haven't got it right, so it's costing us.

 

[Keefy18]

It is nonsense because you're plucking £180m figure from hacks who are pretending to be journalists. A wage spike can also be due to certain contract renewals or certain players being promoted from academy to main team. It isn't as cut and dry as pinning it entirely on Sanchez.

Have you ever considered it is possible to support the manager and not spend like a total idiot? Basically, what every top club in the world is doing save for us.

Also, funny how you completely ignored how Woodward has continuously appointed managers with different philosophies because it doesn't suit your narrative "Jose is evil, hurr hurr!". Nor have you said anything about a CEO having final say on transfers or having a shambles of footballing structure with incompetent people around him who continuously overpay in fees and wages for every single player. There was plenty wrong at the club long before Mourinho stepped a foot in, to say our current woes are entirely due to Mourinho shows how out of touch you are with reality, just to push you silly agenda. Fact of the matter is, Mourinho is the most successful Man Utd manager post-Fergie. The same squad with which he achieved a 2nd place finish 14 months ago, which was apparently capable of 'so much more' is now suddenly not good enough. I wonder why

Mate its on our own financial records! We are a publicly traded company. We can't hide from them that much cause of the nature of the clubs ownership.

So no its not "hacks who are pretending to be journalists".

Hilarious, you say you don't want him to spend like a total idiot... But you then expected him to spend another £200m after the £150m (minimum) for Sanchez in the summer... Wouldn't that therefor be him spending like an idiot?

I've said as such many pages back that one of the few valid arguments against Ed is the fact he went from LVG to Jose, it was a 180 in ideals and yes it was a mistake. Pity the same supporters who sang Jose's name whilst LVG was manager can't admit they were wrong in doing so as well.

There was plenty wrong indeed, but Jose just confounded the problems with crappy scouting and signing players than didn't suit his team and failed to address key areas.

Ole's not even had a full transfer window and I can see he's addressed 2 key areas in our team already. Jose couldn't manage it in 3 summer transfer windows.

 

[macheda14]

Henrikh wasn't valued at £30m! That fee was of £30m was paid to Arsenal or it will be in installments (as is standard practice with transfers).
https://www.espn.com/soccer/english...nchez-henrikh-mkhitaryan-swap-deal-come-about

As I've posted above our own public financial records show a spike specifically in the transfer fees after this deal was done. At a guess I would suggest that spike was made up of partial transfer fee, agent fee and partial signing on fee (which is also paid out over the duration of the players contract).

The article you quoted says this: 'Sources said that once it was agreed Mkhitaryan would be part of the deal, Arsenal also wanted a further cash payment before being negotiated down by United to a straight swap.'

It was a straight swap deal. Everyone reported it as such.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...manchester-united-so-close-says-jose-mourinho

You've gotten yourself confused.

 

[Keefy18]

Jose was not suited to us, but he is certainly no fool, he was right about us needing a new CB, & was he so wrong about Fellaini? He knew he could do a job for his style, and in the end we got a transfer fee when the next manager didn't fancy him, a lot more than we're likely to get for Jones & Mata that's for sure.

The vanity project is not nonsense, and it started when LvG was here, it sells shirts, it gets sponsors, and when you get it right it helps the team, but we haven't got it right, so it's costing us.

I've often defended Fellaini from "supporters" who gave him dogs abuse and booed him mid match. Was he ever right for United? Nope. He should never of been signed but that's on Moyes who was in turn appointed by Fergie & Gill.

We should of sold him or even let leave, the board were clearly not in favor of keeping him or at least not paying him what he was demanding but Jose's public statements "made it easy" (Fellaini's words in an interview after getting his new deal) for him.

Yep we need a CB but that's the point I make regarding Sanchez's numbers. It isn't just the £60m folks say it is. There is far more behind the transfer fees than folks think about like signing on fees, agent fees and a feck tonne more. We signed Sanchez for mind boggling sums of money, a player Jose clearly wanted.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ose-mourinho-arsenal-badly-sign-a8172926.html

Read a line or two of this article and tell me Jose didn't want Sanchez, all Ed did was sign the cheque and deliver a player the manager wanted.

 

[clarkydaz]

Jose's no idiot? Really?

This is the same Jose who went public right after this Sanchez signing demanding Fellaini be kept.

He forced Judge / Woodwards hand into giving Fellaini a new deal with pay rise, but he isn't an idiot?

No surprise Fellaini was right out the door after Jose last winter.

This "vanity project" stuff is nonsense and the galactico signings were a hallmark of Jose's tenure, hence our wage bill all but doubled (46%) in 2 fecking years!

When folks bother their arse to do research then the penny drops and you see where the blame lies for our current woes, it was firmly at the door of the miserable one.

you are saying then Ed happily sanctioned a deal that cost us up to £180m for a 29 yr old Sanchez, wheras 6 months earlier clipped Jose's wings on defenders like Maguire at 60m, which the team desperately needed. Sanchez wasn't needed. This underlines the state of the club being run. But lets be honest, it was a great piano playing video

 

[Kush]

Mate its on our own financial records! We are a publicly traded company. We can't hide from them that much cause of the nature of the clubs ownership.

So no its not "hacks who are pretending to be journalists".

Once again, the figure which you mentioned cannot be solely tied down to Sanchez, it's conjecture. I just gave you three possible scenarios as to why there could be a wage spike due to, renewals, promotion, bonus etc.

Hilarious, you say you don't want him to spend like a total idiot... But you then expected him to spend another £200m after the £150m (minimum) for Sanchez in the summer... Wouldn't that therefor be him spending like an idiot?

The problem is, if you add transfer fee, agent fee, bonuses, wages for the entire contract for an player then a £45m signing in AWB would look like a very costly one in region of £100m. Only reason you're constantly mentioning Sanchez overall cost because it suits your agenda of club spending a lot of money.

I've said as such many pages back that one of the few valid arguments against Ed is the fact he went from LVG to Jose, it was a 180 in ideals and yes it was a mistake. Pity the same supporters who sang Jose's name whilst LVG was manager can't admit they were wrong in doing so as well.

There was plenty wrong indeed, but Jose just confounded the problems with crappy scouting and signing players than didn't suit his team and failed to address key areas.

Ole's not even had a full transfer window and I can see he's addressed 2 key areas in our team already. Jose couldn't manage it in 3 summer transfer windows.

Jose confounded the problems yes, but at the end of day he remains the most successful manager (not a high bar to achieve) post-Fergie. So for all his wrong-doing, he's still did better than his predecessors and successors. Once, his results were not acceptable he was out of job. But, for Woodward and rest of his team they are still here, they are still making the calls after poor negotiations throughout the 6 years.

Overall I am saying is, that it is possible to spend smartly even in this insane market. You just need to create the right setup for it, 6 seasons under Woodward and current transfer hierarchy shows that it isn't working because our squad still has too many holes despite spending utterly ludicrous sums of money. We are heavily overpaying for every single player and this is the main reason we are unable to shed the deadwood, you cannot pin this on manager. Appoint a proper structure with accountability for every position (like it happens in any company) this mean overhauling the scouting structure, hiring a DoF with a proper support staff who can handle the negotiations. This would ensure, even if we change managers we wouldn't have to go for a drastic overhaul. It would also help when it comes to aligning managers vision along with the budget for that window.

 

[The Irish Connection]

People might call me a loony bin but I genuinely don’t think we have spent enough over the last 6/7 years.

Considering what needed to be done to the squad after Ronaldo left and Scholes and Carrick retired.
Our net spend in the transfer window until then was something like 20m per year which is shockingly low. We cheaped out on Moyes who wanted Kroos and signed Fellaini last minute. A disastrous window considering Moyes experience. Then Van Gaal wanted a top midfielder but we took the cheap option in Herrera, to replace Scholes and Carrick!? We needed to spend the extra 10 or 20 million to get the top level players not average to good players or potential players to save 10 million here or there. Finally we got Pogba who was the level needed but obviously inconsistent and an ageing Matic for low enough money again.
Then the last Mourinho window was shockingly bad again and this one could well end up poor again, with a very inexperienced manager in charge and a squad who finished 6th.
Top players, of the caliber of Ronaldo, Scholes, Rooney, Carrick, unfortunately cost at least 50 million in the market of the last 5 years and easily between 80m and 100m in some cases, so when you divide that into 700m, you get 7 or 8.
So, when you consider our revenue is in the top 3 in the world, we should be spending mbappe money or Real Madrid’s spend this year, and we needed that investment considering where our squad was after Fergie retired.
At the start of this summer, most agreed we needed to spend up to 250m to close the gap. And we should have spent close to that in Moyes’ first season too.

It would be the job if we had that extra 50-80m that goes on interest payments, dividends, fees every year, but we don’t, and so have been shopping in the bargain bin for years. So 700m isn’t enough. City had a better squad than us and have spent more in that time.
Van Gaal I think said it recently in an interview , ‘I thought Man United could buy anyone’ , which is of course what Woodward bragged about too.
If we were spending enough, we would have put in a 100-120m bid for Sancho this summer.

Yes, you could say the money was spent poorly, but what I’m trying to say is that our board are pushing the managers into buying the cheaper alternatives or dithering over the top level player prices or not bothering pursuing them.

We needed to spend 200m net this summer and it’s looking doubtful, but still time, so hopefully, because we need at least another 2 in.

 

[The Irish Connection]

We are far away actually. United fans overestimate the club it is painful

I know. It’s embarrassing when we say we’re the biggest club in the world when Liverpool now have twice our amount of European cups, Madrid have 12 or something and Barca or PSG regularly sign the worlds best players.

 

[Keefy18]

you are saying then Ed happily sanctioned a deal that cost us up to £180m for a 29 yr old Sanchez, wheras 6 months earlier clipped Jose's wings on defenders like Maguire at 60m, which the team desperately needed. Sanchez wasn't needed. This underlines the state of the club being run. But lets be honest, it was a great piano playing video

Would I say happily? No. But he supported Jose's request of wanting Sanchez.

You can't have it both ways, but that seems to be the way of his haters. Hated equally for supporting and supporting the managers requests.

Your missing the point though about all of this and the Maguire transfer.

If we factor in all the costs of the Sanchez transfer its approx £150m if not more, then he got another £70m to sign Fred and Dalot. That's another £220m on top of the previous two summers spend £350m... AND... The increase of just under £100m in wages over two years from approx £240m to £330m as it currently stands.

The level of financial support Jose got is absolutely insane.

 

[el3mel]

I know. It’s embarrassing when we say we’re the biggest club in the world when Liverpool now have twice our amount of European cups, Madrid have 12 or something and Barca or PSG regularly sign the worlds best players.

I actually cringe whenever one of our new signings say such a thing in their first interview.

 

[macheda14]

I actually cringe whenever one of our new signings say such a thing in their first interview.

It’s to do with the global fan base. Most estimates put us as the most supported club in the world. Which you would argue makes us one of, if not the, biggest clubs in the world. Not to say our recent lack of success and inability to buy the worlds best players doesn’t feel embarrassing. However the argument for us being the biggest is still very much there.

 

[Jim Beam]

Would I say happily? No. But he supported Jose's request of wanting Sanchez.

You can't have it both ways, but that seems to be the way of his haters. Hated equally for supporting and supporting the managers requests.

Your missing the point though about all of this and the Maguire transfer.

If we factor in all the costs of the Sanchez transfer its approx £150m if not more, then he got another £70m to sign Fred and Dalot. That's another £220m on top of the previous two summers spend £350m... AND... The increase of just under £100m in wages over two years from approx £240m to £330m as it currently stands.

The level of financial support Jose got is absolutely insane.

Agree. For someone from a finance background he is remarkably good in pissing away huge amounts of money too.

 

[Johan07]

We may spent a vast figure but it has got wasted. I think Woody wasted so much money that he is reluctant to spend much this window. That is why a think we should have brought in the DoF/technical director earlier and I don't think we would be in the mess we are in now.

If we had a DoF he could work with Ole to identify the areas in the team that need improving, then decide the profile of players we need, then choose to purchase the players that fit these profiles. Then all Woody would have to do is purchase these players and work on negotiating their contracts, so he can then focus on the commercial aspect which he is good at.

I think Woody has so much confidence in his own football knowledge that he is unwilling to take advice from people who have far greater knowledge about football than him, like Ole.

Regarding the amount of money we pay in wages I would expect results which reflect this massive outlay which is not happening.
One of our problems is the amount that we pay in wages as we pay wages that other teams wouldn't pay and then if they are unsuccessful we will find it hard to sell because the other teams won't pay them what we will.

I thought it at the time, it was going to feck us over in the future. What a stupid mistake paying such ludicrous wages as any player we sign who thinks they are are on his level or better are going to want at least the same amount of wages and they know Woody is stupid enough to pay them

Its the clubs most costly transfer ever and a good example of why transfer fees dont mean much today.
Those who say that we just "spent" 65m last season dont understand financials.
At the same time: that was 1,5 years ago and Juventus recently gave Aaron Ramsey pretty much the same deal as Sanchez if we believe what is reported. Hazard is paid the same at Real and he was not even a free agent as Ramsey or Sanchez (almost was).
So its not an anomaly any more when it comes to free agents. Its more of a benchmark now for worldclass talent, which you also really can discuss if Sanchez and Ramsey really are to begin with.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Its the clubs most costly transfer ever and a good example of why transfer fees dont mean much today.
Those who say that we just "spent" 65m last season dont understand financials.
At the same time: that was 1,5 years ago and Juventus recently gave Aaron Ramsey pretty much the same deal as Sanchez if we believe what is reported. Hazard is paid the same at Real and he was not even a free agent as Ramsey or Sanchez (almost was).
So its not an anomaly any more when it comes to free agents. Its more of a benchmark now for worldclass talent, which you also really can discuss if Sanchez and Ramsey really are to begin with.

I realise it is now becoming the benchmark for talented players especially those moving om a free but it still p!sses me off. I am happy for a player to get payed decent wages if they have been here for a few years and consistently produce performances which deserve such wages.

 

[Keefy18]

Once again, the figure which you mentioned cannot be solely tied down to Sanchez, it's conjecture. I just gave you three possible scenarios as to why there could be a wage spike due to, renewals, promotion, bonus etc.

How are you not getting this?

You are suggesting renewals, promotional costs or bonus set us back £28m approx? Not a chance. Smalling got a new deal, but not a fecking chance did it set us back £28m.

The most costly acquisition was clearly Sanchez, why are you arguing this its absolutely common knowledge that he is earning mind boggling sums of money from the club.

The problem is, if you add transfer fee, agent fee, bonuses, wages for the entire contract for an player then a £45m signing in AWB would look like a very costly one in region of £100m. Only reason you're constantly mentioning Sanchez overall cost because it suits your agenda of club spending a lot of money.

No that isn't the problem at all.

The reason why I mention Sanchez is because its common knowledge he is our highest earner and set the club back a lot of money but folks ignore this and say Jose wasn't supported. AWB won't set us back as much cause his salary is nothing like Sanchez who earns easily 3 or 4 times what he does.

To give you an idea of extra costs involved in every transfer, read the opening comment on this thread and this is even from a few years ago: https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/but-what-about-the-net-spend.97650/

It's an interesting read and because of things like wiki leaks and United being publicly traded we can see what's being spent and where.

Overall I am saying is, that it is possible to spend smartly even in this insane market. You just need to create the right setup for it, 6 seasons under Woodward and current transfer hierarchy shows that it isn't working because our squad still has too many holes despite spending utterly ludicrous sums of money. We are heavily overpaying for every single player and this is the main reason we are unable to shed the deadwood, you cannot pin this on manager. Appoint a proper structure with accountability for every position (like it happens in any company) this mean overhauling the scouting structure, hiring a DoF with a proper support staff who can handle the negotiations. This would ensure, even if we change managers we wouldn't have to go for a drastic overhaul. It would also help when it comes to aligning managers vision along with the budget for that window.

There's lots of blame to go around.

Our demise can be traced way, way back.

Folks fire out a line about under investment for years back with Fergie but it isn't that simple either. The Glazers bought a club with a fantastic squad already in place and spent wisely and got some great players in between 2005-08. The under investment that hurt us was from 09-13 and Fergie was as much to blame and his disliking of many agents, in particular Raiola.

Did the Glazers tighten purse strings too? Probably. It could be quite likely as they paid off the worst of the PIK loans around that time as well (2010).

We sure as s*it can't say they haven't been generous in the post Fergie years, the sums of money being thrown around are absolutely absurd. For a club without a sugar daddy what we are doing financially is incredible.

Appointing Moyes, was down to Fergie & Gill and Ed inherited a team that was ageing and the spine needed replacing.

If folks are completely and utterly honest Woodward took over a club that lost footballs most successful manager, lost its CEO with him. Then lost the spine of the team in the 2 years after that.

It's far too simplistic to round it all off on a singular person.

 

[Keefy18]

I realise it is now becoming the benchmark for talented players especially those moving om a free but it still p!sses me off. I am happy for a player to get payed decent wages if they have been here for a few years and consistently produce performances which deserve such wages.

Why does it have to be specifically at United?

If its a top talent you'll pay top buck for the player. Bit like saying if we somehow managed to sign Messi then he should start on a low wage cause he's new.

Sanchez was a top talent, played at Barca and one of the leagues best players and scorers prior to signing. He arguably deserved / warranted a huge salary.

It's just our luck these days he can't stay fit for more than a game of ball.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I've often defended Fellaini from "supporters" who gave him dogs abuse and booed him mid match. Was he ever right for United? Nope. He should never of been signed but that's on Moyes who was in turn appointed by Fergie & Gill.

We should of sold him or even let leave, the board were clearly not in favor of keeping him or at least not paying him what he was demanding but Jose's public statements "made it easy" (Fellaini's words in an interview after getting his new deal) for him.

Yep we need a CB but that's the point I make regarding Sanchez's numbers. It isn't just the £60m folks say it is. There is far more behind the transfer fees than folks think about like signing on fees, agent fees and a feck tonne more. We signed Sanchez for mind boggling sums of money, a player Jose clearly wanted.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ose-mourinho-arsenal-badly-sign-a8172926.html

Read a line or two of this article and tell me Jose didn't want Sanchez, all Ed did was sign the cheque and deliver a player the manager wanted.

Words mean nothing, more so from someone like Jose, I would happily bet my last pound that this was more a 'club' signing, than Jose actually wanting him, of course Sanchez is hardly a player he is going to cry about getting, but it made no sense at the time given our options there, and needs elsewhere, for such an extravagant signing.

If it was all Jose, then it is Eds job to go to him and say yes we can sign Sanchez, but because (as you rightly say) the costs are so high, then I'm afraid you will be limited to £50-£60 million in the summer, Jose would surely have said no way in this unlikely event.

Personally I don't think the club will look at Fellaini signing a new deal as a bad thing, they got more in a transfer fee than wages paid, and the extensions we've made since makes it look like they think they can do the same with our other 'dead wood' players.

 

[clarkydaz]

Would I say happily? No. But he supported Jose's request of wanting Sanchez.

You can't have it both ways, but that seems to be the way of his haters. Hated equally for supporting and supporting the managers requests.

Your missing the point though about all of this and the Maguire transfer.

If we factor in all the costs of the Sanchez transfer its approx £150m if not more, then he got another £70m to sign Fred and Dalot. That's another £220m on top of the previous two summers spend £350m... AND... The increase of just under £100m in wages over two years from approx £240m to £330m as it currently stands.

The level of financial support Jose got is absolutely insane.

As you seem to swat away any gripes people have with the board/Ed. Again, why did he allow insane money for Sanchez but publicly undermine the manager 6 months earlier (and derail the season) when Jose requested more 'sensible' signings? his incompetence to run a FOOTBALL CLUB is masked by its sheer wealth to not be accountable for it.

 

[Johan07]

Words mean nothing, more so from someone like Jose, I would happily bet my last pound that this was more a 'club' signing, than Jose actually wanting him, of course Sanchez is hardly a player he is going to cry about getting, but it made no sense at the time given our options there, and needs elsewhere, for such an extravagant signing.

If it was all Jose, then it is Eds job to go to him and say yes we can sign Sanchez, but because (as you rightly say) the costs are so high, then I'm afraid you will be limited to £50-£60 million in the summer, Jose would surely have said no way in this unlikely event.

Personally I don't think the club will look at Fellaini signing a new deal as a bad thing, they got more in a transfer fee than wages paid, and the extensions we've made since makes it look like they think they can do the same with our other 'dead wood' players.

We dont know what Fellainis sign-on/renewal fee was. Admittedly we dont even know if there was one.
But its a pretty fair assumption that there was one equivalent to the transfer fee paid just six months after.
That aside; I dont get this idea of a "club signing. Whats that? Its that a thing?
Did not people see Joses press conference after we signed Alexis and he was looking like he was coming in his own pants and expressly stated that we would not make another offensive signing the coming summer? Of course he wanted him and he knew very well the effect it would have on what we could do in the transfer market that summer.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Why does it have to be specifically at United?

If its a top talent you'll pay top buck for the player. Bit like saying if we somehow managed to sign Messi then he should start on a low wage cause he's new.

Sanchez was a top talent, played at Barca and one of the leagues best players and scorers prior to signing. He arguably deserved / warranted a huge salary.

It's just our luck these days he can't stay fit for more than a game of ball.

I don't think it was right paying him all those wages, as it ruined our wage structure. It's not like asking asking Messi to start off on a low wage, as Sanchez wasn't on massive wages before he came here, at Arsenal Sanchez' wage was £130,000 per week. It is a massive leap to what he is on now.
This will make any decent player who comes here ask for similar wages as they know we will pay insane wages which seems like Woody's main negotiating tactic, this will affect us financially. I was happy with the signing at the time as I thought that he would do well here as I thought he was going to be our answer to our problem on the right but not happy with the wages. This has contributed supposedly offering Pogba £500,000 per week which I don't think is worth paying either.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Every once in a while I wonder how things are going with that picture he took at the Olympiakos game. Has he kept the photograph in his office, hanging on the wall? Maybe he just keeps it on his computer, in the same folder as the one from when we we lost away at Midgetland.

At least we'll always have the still of him taking the actual photograph.

Spoiler

 

[Johan07]

I don't think it was right paying him all those wages, as it ruined our wage structure. It's not like asking asking Messi to start off on a low wage, as Sanchez wasn't on massive wages before he came here, at Arsenal Sanchez £130,000 per week. It is a massive leap to what he is on now.
This will make any decent player who comes here ask for similar wages as they know we will pay insane wages which seems like Woody's main negotiating tactic, this will affect us financially. I was happy with the signing at the time as I thought that he would do well here but not happy with the wages as I thought he was he going to be our answer to our problem on the right. This has contributed supposedly offering Pogba £500,000 per week which I don't think is worth paying either.

We dont have a "wage structure".
Its one of the biggest false narratives on here and quite irritating that people thinks its a thing and that it matters what someones "official"salary is.
What we do have is a cost control system.
When we are buying or selling a players we will be using quite advanced algorithms to assess value and/or cost for a player. Transfer fee, age, asset devaluation (or possible increase for a young player). Sign-on fee. Renewal fee. Length of contract. Remaining time of contract if we are selling.
Sanchez for example; his transfer fee was 25m which is like nothing today. Because he played out his contract he could get that deal wage-wise.
You cannot compare him to another younger player who are under a long term contract. Like Maguire for example.
And those algorithms are not secret either. Agents, players and other players will be very aware of them as well.
This idea that other players would want the Sanchez-salary when they arrived on under completely different circumstances is weird to me. And its not a real thing tbh.Except on the Caf I guess.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Would I say happily? No. But he supported Jose's request of wanting Sanchez.

You can't have it both ways, but that seems to be the way of his haters. Hated equally for supporting and supporting the managers requests.

Your missing the point though about all of this and the Maguire transfer.

If we factor in all the costs of the Sanchez transfer its approx £150m if not more, then he got another £70m to sign Fred and Dalot. That's another £220m on top of the previous two summers spend £350m... AND... The increase of just under £100m in wages over two years from approx £240m to £330m as it currently stands.

The level of financial support Jose got is absolutely insane.

I do wonder, to what extent did Jose's spending set us back? We seem (at least from the outside) to still be struggling to come up with big funds 2 summers later. I hope this isn't something that will haunt us for some time.

 

[SER19]

Arsenal knocked back for Zaha. Moved on, signed pepe.

Woodward is the reactor core of negativity at this club.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

So this is how we rebuild United to make us great again, this is how its done.

 

[Escobar]

I know. It’s embarrassing when we say we’re the biggest club in the world when Liverpool now have twice our amount of European cups, Madrid have 12 or something and Barca or PSG regularly sign the worlds best players.

And all have a professional setup

 

[clarkydaz]

Every once in a while I wonder how things are going with that picture he took at the Olympiakos game. Has he kept the photograph in his office, hanging on the wall? Maybe he just keeps it on his computer, in the same folder as the one from when we we lost away at Midgetland.

At least we'll always have the still of him taking the actual photograph.

Spoiler

What a fitting picture

 

[Eric's Seagull]

We dont have a "wage structure".
Its one of the biggest false narratives on here and quite irritating that people thinks its a thing and that it matters what someones "official"salary is.
What we do have is a cost control system.
When we are buying or selling a players we will be using quite advanced algorithms to assess value and/or cost for a player. Transfer fee, age, asset devaluation (or possible increase for a young player). Sign-on fee. Renewal fee. Length of contract. Remaining time of contract if we are selling.
Sanchez for example; his transfer fee was 25m which is like nothing today. Because he played out his contract he could get that deal wage-wise.
You cannot compare him to another younger player who are under a long term contract. Like Maguire for example.
And those algorithms are not secret either. Agents, players and other players will be very aware of them as well.
This idea that other players would want the Sanchez-salary when they arrived on under completely different circumstances is weird to me. And its not a real thing tbh.Except on the Caf I guess.

Didn't understand you post but tried to. Please correct me if I am wrong. Are what you saying is that we took many variables like age 29, wages, length of contract, fee paid and sell on value into account and work out that Sanchez is worth an outlay of £180m and another example Pogba at 23 on a 5 yer contract which I read was initially was £280,000 which works out as roughly £70m plus £89m fee is worth £160m outlay when he has potential sell on fee as well and Sanchez has no sell on fee. How does this work out?

Please tell me the bits that I've worked out out wrong, I may have worked it all out completely wrong. From yoour post it seems that you know a lot about this. Like I said I didn't understand your post but tried my best to as I am no expert , so could you please explain?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If we only sign 2 players and the team under-perform again, there should be RIOTS at Old Trafford.

It's insane how much leeway this clown continues to get.

 

[vanderpants]

For a club the size of utd, having to sell players first is a disgrace, even arsenal have outspent us. 60m spent, farce