We've spent a ton of cash. The clamber to just spend more like that's the panacea for success I don't get. We need to fix the club first. Get the right guys in with a proven track record. I'd love Ole to come out and say that and turn the pressure back on the club to change. Equally giving Ole a huge war chest is insane in any walk of life. He's unproven himself doing anything like that. Ultimately he'll lose his job because of the recruitment here. I see nothing new in terms of a strategy going forward coming out of the club. I have no idea who makes the final decision on transfers. Isn't that alone odd for a top 6 club? Either do those better connected to the club. You can blindside fans though with throwing 100m around. Like we did with Di Maria and Falcao etc.
Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition
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We've spent a ton of cash. The clamber to just spend more like that's the panacea for success I don't get. We need to fix the club first. Get the right guys in with a proven track record. I'd love Ole to come out and say that and turn the pressure back on the club to change. Equally giving Ole a huge war chest is insane in any walk of life. He's unproven himself doing anything like that. Ultimately he'll lose his job because of the recruitment here. I see nothing new in terms of a strategy going forward coming out of the club. I have no idea who makes the final decision on transfers. Isn't that alone odd for a top 6 club? Either do those better connected to the club. You can blindside fans though with throwing 100m around. Like we did with Di Maria and Falcao etc.
Poor examples. Those clubs aren't expecting to be winning the major trophies every year. They have different revenues & expectations compared to Utd.
We are the richest club in the world, our fans expect us to be competing for the major trophies every year, just like fans of City, Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Juventus etc. But we're absolutely miles off.
You can defend Woodward and the owners all you want but the bottom line is we're not as well run as the other super clubs, no where near. And have actually fallen off a cliff compared to where we were in 2013.
Agree 100%
If you're after a new house and you find one that meets your criteria then you assess whether you have the money to pay the asking price. Yes, you may initially put in a lower offer to save a bit of money (hopefully) but this negotiation dance shouldn't last long as you will soon get a feel for what the seller is willing to accept. It is at THIS point that you either put up or shut up.
If our bids for players are rejected then we need to accept they are "out of our budget" and move onto Plan B and Plan C if necessary
I am aware of every single thing you mentioned and even with all that shit considered he still managed to take us 2nd. He then wanted Maguire but Lord Ed refused because he would only consider spending big amounts on "someone like Varane" One year later he proceeds to bid a club record breaking fee for that same player but yes every thing was Jose's fault and no responsibility lies with the clowns who gave him an extension to then only 6 months later have a big fall out with him and then proceed to wait until we were 11 points away from 4th place before deciding it might be a good idea to sack him.
Pointless to even have a discussion with you when you can't even be objective. I personally dislike Mourinho very much and even I can see and know that not everything was his fault.
I am aware of every single thing you mentioned and even with all that shit considered he still managed to take us 2nd. He then wanted Maguire but Lord Ed refused because he would only consider spending big amounts on "someone like Varane" One year later he proceeds to bid a club record breaking fee for that same player but yes every thing was Jose's fault and no responsibility lies with the clowns who gave him an extension to then only 6 months later have a big fall out with him and then proceed to wait until we were 11 points away from 4th place before deciding it might be a good idea to sack him.
Pointless to even have a discussion with you when you can't even be objective. I personally dislike Mourinho very much and even I can see and know that not everything was his fault.
Exactly this. Woodward has to take the most blame for our last season mess. Back in July many fans already could see a moaning Jose will be a disaster and yet Woodward played with a fire and did not know what to do. Woodward is an incompetent guy when it comes to taking footballing decision. And trust me we do not need to be a CEO to tell he has done a horrible job from footballing point of view.
I said no amount of buts, scarecrows or look over theres are going to change that, and you went to straight to all three.
Arsenal fans have been moaning for years about the state of that club. Spurs fans have been moaning about the lack of funds. Every club that under performers has people pointing at the owners and no, its not just us. We just happen to be the most high profile. As for winning trophies, that comes when the club is managed correctly. Most fans would say they can wait for trophies, they just want some consistency. They want to be able to get behind the team and they want to see a plan to take us forward. Fans dont care about shirt sales and drink sponsors. Thats for the stock holders. We care about the football.
Good post. You make some very valid points and also think it would be nice to have continuity rather than a new manager coming in and saying they need player "A,B,C,D,E" to be bought to fit the philosophy eg possession football, then a new manager wanting to discard those players and want to be but player "X,Y,Z" to fit their style and so on and so forth.
I also have a feeling if we had a DoF in it would give some people someone else to blame if things don't go how they want, when they finally get the DoF appointed which they've wanted so long. I think a board/committee style approach would work although I don't think Woody would be happy with that as although Woody would still have ultimate say, I think he would like to have a single person (DoF) to work with as he would have more chance to manipulate them so to speak, rather than have different views from several characters to deal with.
I had a conversation with my friend and he thinks Sir Alex shouldn't be about the club as he thinks Sir Alex is such a strong personalty that his presence will still put massive pressure on whoever is running the show. I think in Sir Alex' time it was different, we didn't need a DoF then as he was capable of doing the lot. I think what some people don't realise is that he was so good at doing everything because he grew into the role himself as he built the club back up which enabled him to take on whatever came his way but times have changed. Louis Van Gaal wanted full control but he said something along the lines of the club is too big a job for one man to have so much power.
And lets not forget Mourinho walked away with millions to pay off his contract. Some reports were close to £30m. That a decent chunk of money that could have been spent on players. All because he unnecessarily extended his contract last February.
Don't think Jose deserved the new contract at all after he openly flirted with PSG. In my opinion another stupid mistake by Woody.
Not to mention the fact that we were still paying off Van Gaal's contract long after he'd left.
Where does this shit come from? At least give the guy one window to access the problems he is facing. Not a chance he is going to smile much when Pogba and Lukaku are gone and we get Longstaff, Glen Murray instead and Cahill as a CB.
I have one concern about this that we move on to Plan B or C and Woody thinks they are out of our price range or we take so long negotiating then decide they are out of our price range, that we run out of time to get anyone in.
They aren't poor examples, cause I asked do any of the other top 6 clubs CEOs get the same level of blame?
In a simple yes or no answer, do they?
If were talking about poor examples christ some of the clubs you've listed are failing as much as us in the post Fergie years.
Madrid have finished 3rd in a two horse race the last two seasons. We've out spent them in 4 out of the last 6 seasons prior to this summer.
Bayern likewise have a monopoly on the German league, its completely non competitive for them. They've done sweet fa in Europe for years, even less than we have cause we won the Europa and Juventus keep failing in the CL but similar to Bayern walk to league titles.
The Premier league is a different animal altogether compared to all other European leagues due to have the revenue is evenly split up.
I do not think you are understanding the real issue. His job does not end by just signing some players. He is the CEO for one of the biggest club and he has done a disastrous job. You tell me has Woodward run this club properly in last 6 years? If yes, how? And I am just speaking in footballing terms and not commercial aspect. For me , No he has not done a good job.
With a club of our stature we should be competing with very best and not looking at Arsenal and say hey they are also doing a poor job so we are fine doing a poor job ourselves. That is a poor example. In 2013 we were much superior to City but now 6 years later they are doing a far better job than us. WHo is to blame for that? Where is our planning and structure?
I am all for different opinions but I can never understand how some can still defend Ed Woodward who I will again say has ruined this club and is doing absolutely nothing to fix his mess.
Feck Woodward, feck all his minions along with Judge and feck the Glazers! All the discussion I have for their supporters.
And the worst part part about him is deep inside the mind he thinks he is doing a great job and every player is still dying to join this club because he can throw some money. CLOWN
I am aware of every single thing you mentioned and even with all that shit considered he still managed to take us 2nd. He then wanted Maguire but Lord Ed refused because he would only consider spending big amounts on "someone like Varane" One year later he proceeds to bid a club record breaking fee for that same player but yes every thing was Jose's fault and no responsibility lies with the clowns who gave him an extension to then only 6 months later have a big fall out with him and then proceed to wait until we were 11 points away from 4th place before deciding it might be a good idea to sack him.
Pointless to even have a discussion with you when you can't even be objective. I personally dislike Mourinho very much and even I can see and know that not everything was his fault.
Last summer and this summer we've apparently shown interest in Maguire, we're not willing to bend to their demands though. What's the issue? We haven't made any such world record bid, the club is reluctant still to even part with more than 70m for Maguire, if were to believe the rumors which is exactly the same as last year.
If Jose's self appointed head of scouting hadn't of fecked off for another job we might well of had other targets but we didn't. It is entirely possible as well you know we could be holding out to get Toby and when his £25m release clause is active in the final fortnight of his deal.
It's quite funny how you say I can't be objective without realizing how incredibly ignorant your comment is here. You started out by admitting Jose did plenty wrong prior to the CB fall out with the board, but then round out your comment with the bold part. It contradicts everything in your first line.
He was offered the new deal, proceeded to engineer his pay off almost immediately there after in the months that followed. The CB disagreement was the end of it all.
Having a very childish, bitter and public fall out with your manager is not going to end well. Jose was guilty of this for the 3rd time running. Rafa tried it at Newcastle, he's gone. Fergie tried it with Edwards, he temporarily retired. He picked a fight with Magnier / McManus very, very stupidly and also lost in humiliating fashion.
You'd think after that Ferguson debacles our supporters would know better than to have public fallout's with the board, clearly not!
So the narrative is completely boring, repetitive and revisionist nonsense at this point, give it a rest.
I said no amount of buts, scarecrows or look over theres are going to change that, and you went to straight to all three.
Arsenal fans have been moaning for years about the state of that club. Spurs fans have been moaning about the lack of funds. Every club that under performers has people pointing at the owners and no, its not just us. We just happen to be the most high profile. As for winning trophies, that comes when the club is managed correctly. Most fans would say they can wait for trophies, they just want some consistency. They want to be able to get behind the team and they want to see a plan to take us forward. Fans dont care about shirt sales and drink sponsors. Thats for the stock holders. We care about the football.
Yeah and what was the most vocal protest from the Gooner fans? Wasn't it "Wenger" Out? I didn't see many if any at all about CEO's leaving. Wenger took the brunt of it.
Spurs fans are buzzing about their new stadium and have said that now its built they expect funds to be released for new players. They've only managed the 1 big signing so far though, maybe they'll call for Levy's head?
The bold part is about the only sensible thing I've seen you post on here yet, we are football fans. We're about the only supporters in the league who piss, moan and sulk about sponsorship, bank balances and other silly s*it!
We didn't start supporting United cause of our bank balance or what sponsor we had or didn't, we supported it cause of on field matters! Win, lose or draw the team was supported through far worse than the current situation.
All our supporters seem to give a toss about these days is the business side and spend their days arguing about it online.
You are actually missing the point here. Spurs have never been challengers, the aim was always been top 4. Now they have some success, they are enjoying the ride. If spurs have 2 / 3 seasons out the top 4, ask the same question again, and you will see people will be questioning Levy, and looking at their squad, they dont need much more to stay in the top 4.
I think if you read, most people don't care how many sponsorship deals Ed makes and profits, they want results on the pitch. Manutd over the years have been title challengers, and now we are challenging for 4th - 6th? Do you actually want us to clap players after the performances V Everton, Cardiff? After Barca / City loss the fans sang and clapped because we were beaten by a better team.
I said all.
We are the only top 6 club calling for the CEO to be fired due to how poor things are on field. Arsenal have had some murmurs of discontent with the board but the most vocal protest was Wenger out wasn't it?
Point I'm making is lost obviously... just ignore the stupid sponsorship stuff. All clubs are doing exactly the same. The City video was slaughtered recently if memory serves right?
Our managers and players are letting the club down, the business side is delivering.
Its a very valid question why posters like you judge our CEO from a completely different perspective than all other top-6 clubs fans. Do you see Arsenal fans having a go at Venkatesham? They dont, which is probably because the tabloids dont attribute everything that happens at Arsenal footballing-wise to him. Its sad that so many of our fans buy this crap about Woodwards involvement. Its not different than any other CEO´s.
Try to answer that instead of just posting the same nonsense again.
Its also a very valid question why you are judging the CEO´s performance just on "footballing terms". What does that even mean?
Its not Woodwards job to do anything but procure the best financial and operative possibilities for the manager, which by all objective measures he has. When and if we get a DoF it will be exactly the same but its going to be the DoF reporting to Woodward.
Thats what he should be judged upon as well as how the rest of the club is run even if that does not seem to matter in your mind. Which is a very strange attitude to begin with.
Yeah and what was the most vocal protest from the Gooner fans? Wasn't it "Wenger" Out? I didn't see many if any at all about CEO's leaving. Wenger took the brunt of it.
Spurs fans are buzzing about their new stadium and have said that now its built they expect funds to be released for new players. They've only managed the 1 big signing so far though, maybe they'll call for Levy's head?
The bold part is about the only sensible thing I've seen you post on here yet, we are football fans. We're about the only supporters in the league who piss, moan and sulk about sponsorship, bank balances and other silly s*it!
We didn't start supporting United cause of our bank balance or what sponsor we had or didn't, we supported it cause of on field matters! Win, lose or draw the team was supported through far worse than the current situation.
All our supporters seem to give a toss about these days is the business side and spend their days arguing about it online.
On arsenal, Ive not even been looking and have seen them bitch and moan about kronke. They did the same as us, its wenger/moyes. Then it was lvg then it was jose. Next up, ole. Meanwhile, you sit here telling us that woody has nothing to do with it and expect to be taken seriously.
Spurs fans were bitching and moaning. They seem to have calmed down of late because(wait for it...) their football is good.
No one isnt supporting the club. We are all still here. We are talking about what is wrong with the club that it cant get its shit together. Its was moyes, hes gone and we still cant get traction. Then it was lvg(I put my hand up, I really wanted him gone), hes gone and we still cant get traction. Then it was jose, hes gone and what little traction we got with him(whether you liked watching it or not is a different story) was gone by the end of the season. So if its not moyes, its not lvg, and its not jose, who is it? And if it was all three of them, who hired them? Who has been doing nothing while the club pisses away money on deadwood, stupid wages, and slow negotiations? If jose is ultimately responsible for what we say late season, then why isnt woody ultimately responsible for what we have been seeing this past six/seven years?
So when you say "its not his job", sorry, but it is his job. It his job to run the club, and hes run the football side of it into the ground. Or if you really want to be a stickler, hes allowed it to be run into ground. No matter which way you wanna say it, or how pedantic you wanna be about who does what job, it all falls on woody. Every single part of it. Since hes taken over, nothing hes done has worked out(football side). So why are you happy to let that continue?
Again wtf has Arsenal got to do with everything. You are really silly if you think football club starts and ends with a manager. Ok to make matter easier for you to understand so that you come out of Woodward's ass let us look what he has done or not done to improve this club in the last 6 years.
2013 Summer: Disaster. Made a mockery of himself by going after every signing and ended up with just Fellaini. He did not have basic knowledge of how transfer worked. He was completely out of depth.
2014: Sacked Moyes and appointed van gaal and signed some players. Ok will give him a pass, although the whole "watch this space" and all was cringey.
2015: No direction or structure. Just signing some more random players. Ultimately delaying the sacking of lvg and costing us the top 4. ANd then handling the sacking like crap. Second manager who is sacked and yet no proper structure is placed.
2016: Appoints Jose. From a possession based manager to a totally opposite style manager. Just running with a flow.
2017: Signs 3 players and then offers him an extension , when it was too early.
2018 After giving the extension failing to back him the transfer market. Again showing no proper planning. Every tom and harry predicted last summer this will end bad and yet Woodward did nothing and then sacked Jose and ultimately costing one whole season.
2019: Here we are. No director of football, no proper structure, no direction. All the same bs and trust me when nothing works it will be another manager who will be sacked while Woodward will just here and do nothing.
Woodward is incharge of making footballing decision and so far he has just failed to take any proper decision and give any proper direction.
So who is your alternative? Do you think that the Glazers will appoint anyone but a Woodward 2.0? As of now Matt Judge is probably closest to the gig.
Do you think they will give one iota of crap about what the fans think?
Newsflash: they will not.
This discussion is the same as the #Glazersout thread. Its like posters have indoctrinated themselves to think that you/we have any say in the appointment of the CEO of a multinational billion dollar company. And you are just shouting everyone out (Glazers, Moyes, LvG, Mourinho, Ole, Woodward, Judge), without even considering what the alternative would be. Its not serious.
How the feck can you compare us to Arsenal or Spurs? We were consistently winning until the very point Woodward came in. Spurs have never won trophies and Arsenal had a patch that finished long ago. You have to be stupid to start comparing us with those clubs whilst trying to say that Woodward isn't a problem. They were firmly in our shadow until that chinless cnut arrived. The fact that they're now comparable speaks volumes.
It's not even a case of Woodward arrived + United stop winning = Woodward is doing a bad job. We've said every year, nearly every decision he makes, that he's cocked up. Woodward getting blame is so far overdue, I'm actually astounded that anybody wants to try to defend him.
Imagine there are woodward fans also
It’s depressing how similar this summer might end up being compared to last summer.
Couple of exciting transfers to start us off and then other rumours seeming to be dragged into the dirt
Couple of exciting transfers to start us off and then other rumours seeming to be dragged into the dirt
Imagine there are woodward fans also
Boils my piss.
"He's good commercially" is daft too. Why is he? Because he brings in sponsors? Bullshit. He takes millions off companies that throw money at us just to air a crap advert on MUTV. I could do that. The real heroes are the guys at Nissin Noodles that have managed to get their brand in front of billions of people for a few million quid, not Woodward.
Glazers: Woodward forever!
He has given the OK to invest the most money in transfer fees after City in the PL during his tenure. Under the same tenure we have surpassed City when it comes to our wage bill.
We have also built up an actual scouting system, revamped the youth setup and started up a womens team. Those are strategic decisions that you can and should judge Woodward on.
Who we have signed or not during this period is all down to the respective managers.
We have other bigger problems with the power structure at the club. If you think Ed is googling football managers at home at night you are delusional.
IMO there has been advice from senior people at the club that strongly prefers the manager rules all-culture.
But that is speculation on my side.
My biggest criticism of Woodward is not that he has involved himself in football matters too much, its that he has taken advice from the wrong people, even if they are legends of the club.
yet we spend pennies in the transfer market when we need more signings more than ever
Wouldn't be surprised if he highered people to spread his propaganda on places where United fans converse about him and the owners.Imagine there are woodward fans also
Thats not a newsflash. But here is a newsflash, posting on here is called venting. You see, fans know that they are powerless but they still like to expression themselves. Unless you were going into the game of thrones thread and pissing all over the discussions in there of what people hoped to see happen I fail to see what exactly the point is, other than stating the obvious of course.
As for who gets the job. Heres a novel idea, interview for it. Dont just take someone based on their CV or because they a mate. Actually talk to them and find out what their plans are for taking the club forward. Not just commercially, because that gravy train will end once we meander outside the top four long enough.
And Im not shouting anything, and other people have put forward names. Perhaps you should be quoting them, and not me. As all I am doing is making the point that woody is responsible for our current state.
For not qualifying champions league we save 70 Million on player salaries as they have to take 25% pay cut.
You sound like Baghdad bob
Same thing has happened in our club history previously matey, we hired some very good managers back in the day and had some of the best players in the world, still...they failed. A team with Best, Charlton, Law, Kidd, Stepney and the rest and it still struggled. It was rebuilt after those names and still it struggled.
After Busby we struggled for many years, first it was O'Farrell, then it was Docherty, then it was Sexton and Atkinson. Far as I'm aware the board were never once singled out?
Did you ever just think that maybe it is just the managers didn't do a good enough job? Perhaps your over thinking it.
Some managers simply don't suit United, some managers just can't make that transition. LVG was right at the back end of a very successful career and his ideals were perhaps a bit outdated.
Jose, was on a downward trend and his best days behind him.
Still, their CV's are very impressive and deserved to be in contention and in turn hired. It's only with hindsight can we say otherwise, unless your in possession of a fecking DeLorean and a sports almanac!
His job is ensuring stable profit and providing his staff with resources to their job. He has almost in every single case bare maybe, 2 instances... Di Maria and a Centre back. Even considering ADM, He was still one of the worlds best wide attacking players.
Agree 100%, he is the guy who engineered the takeover of the club, and most people seem to forget, that it was then seen as a hostile takeover, how hostile does it look now.? It is simply a group of rich people who have taken over the club to fill their pockets. And that is becoming more evident with every year that passes.
Again.. I said ALL. I actually highlighted in bold in my second comment. Your reading comprehension is abysmal clearly.
No, he hires a person called a football manager who is in charge of that. Who in turn hires his team (coaches, head of scouting etc).. same way LVG and Jose done. The latter hired Ribalta who quit a year later and we had the CB fiasco.
I said all.
We are the only top 6 club calling for the CEO to be fired due to how poor things are on field. Arsenal have had some murmurs of discontent with the board but the most vocal protest was Wenger out wasn't it?
Point I'm making is lost obviously... just ignore the stupid sponsorship stuff. All clubs are doing exactly the same. The City video was slaughtered recently if memory serves right?
Our managers and players are letting the club down, the business side is delivering.
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