I think I speak for the world entire when I say I am even more confused, in basic terms what you are assuming WiiU can put on screen - where does that stand with what PS3 and 360 can do?
And what can current technology support beyond 360 and PS3?
E3 2011
- Thread starter Kaos
- Start date
I think I speak for the world entire when I say I am even more confused, in basic terms what you are assuming WiiU can put on screen - where does that stand with what PS3 and 360 can do?
And what can current technology support beyond 360 and PS3?
Lets just say that the console COD games run @ around 60fps at 600p. This new console in theory should be able to do that approaching 1080p with the same image quality. I doubt that it will with COD, but it will for some other games. There is no single benchmark you can pull here, as it depends on what the game is pushing. GT5 runs 60fps @ 1280x1080, Wipeout HD runs for the most part 60fps @ 1920x1080, Uncharted 2 runs 30fps @ 1280x720. I think that the latter is the best comparison. I'm guessing that the WiiU could run Uncharted 2 (if it was developed for it) in 1920x1080 around 45fps. Depends on how much RAM it has though, and what type of RAM it is. You can have all of the processing power in the world, but if you can't get the data in and out fast enough it means nothing.
So basically what you are saying is that you believe it to be comparable to this generation but not beyond it.
So if Microsoft comes along in a year or two and unveils their next console, or sony start talking about the future what can current or projected technology deliver relative to what current consoles are producing? I assume we're reaching a point where graphical capability will start sidelining as opposed to blowing the previous generation away?
There is a case of what's called diminishing returns, yes. Because 1080p is perfect for the distance that most people view their TV sets at, so resolution becomes less important. What does graphically become more important are things such as levels of AA and AF and frame rate, but even then you hit a brick wall in that you can't really get any better or at least not noticeably better. So we then get into what was promised by Sony for the PS3, that didn't happen, which is better physics, better AI, better animation, etc. etc. etc. This is CPU work.
So what you are saying is that WiiU will be competitive with this generation, and that the next generation will not really move beyond it.
Therefore Nintendo were able to move away from the mainstream, pick up vast casual support and use that plus the technical innovation to fuel their next console which PS3 and Xbox360 won't have any answer for but to follow, as Microsoft basically has with Kinnect?
Not quite, whilst what Weaste is saying is true, there's still a lot of room for improvement. Try playing something like Crysis 2 on a high end PC. Shadows, lighting, particles and higher level texture effects can all improve, plus like Weaste points out, there's the gameplay stuff like physics and a.i (though the latter is more held back back cost of development time than anything)
As I said earlier, pc development slowing is also leading to graphics not really moving forward at the rate of knots it used to.
Yep, they don't need to capture market share, just retain.
No one knows how much it is going to cost yet so I don't understand these complaints - also complaining old tech (cheap) also does not correspond with a high price point.
Launching next year with Xbox/ps3 or slightly better levels will be cheap to produce not expensive, especially if leverage hug numbers based on wii sales.
Add to this the fact that touch screen prices are dropping through the floor this console could be the cheapest launch console ever. I'm not a big fan of Nintendo but I'm not gonna write this off just yet.
People like new things and the one problem with the other two stretching out the life cycle is it stops people getting the mits on shiny new things.
Weaste was talking about the innards of the Wii when he said old tech.
Your last paragraph is bang on. People love new stuff, but it'll be interesting to see the first few months sales figures - the haters will deride them and the lovers will point to things like the recession
Weaste was talking about the innards of the Wii when he said old tech.
Your last paragraph is bang on. People love new stuff, but it'll be interesting to see the first few months sales figures - the haters will deride them and the lovers will point to things like the recession
If it offers Zelda at 1080p, funky new gimmicks in control and reasonable price point (top of line xbox with kinnectish) I'll be on it I'm afraid.
Even though I got rid of the wii after one month, just been too long without a new gadget.
They've got Kinect to deal with. Why buy this thing when you can dance around like an idiot in front of a camera? It's all very well people liking new things, but it seems what they currently like is Kinect. It's not so simple anymore.
The new machine not only compatible, but give it some sort of upgrade? That's the only thing I can think of, because it's one thing Nintendo beating them to the market, but a whole other letting Sony get there first.
It will move beyond it, but as I said, it's a case now of diminishing returns. Lambs rightly pointed out that things such as lighting (shadowing is in this), volumetric particles, and even texture resolution are the ways to improve things, but it's not just raw processing throughput, there's always one killer in the story, but in this case there's two, and that's RAM and bandwidth and latency to that RAM. You'll find that many people will say, ah RAM is cheap, stick 8BG in - but you can't for a great many reasons, one of which is density. There's a limit to how much RAM you can stick on a motherboard due to space, and then there's the data bus size, which again is the same. If the 360 and PS3 had more RAM, then you would get higher quality visuals and higher quality everything else.
I wouldn't be that surprised to see Sony copy it. Take the NGP and rip its guts out so that it can't actually function as an NGP, it's just a dumb controller. But then, if you do have an NGP, it works as well. It gets messy though, a PS Eye, a Move wand, and an NGP-esque screen controller all out of the box? I suppose that if the camera in NGP is good enough you could use it as the PS Eye for the wands. It's all getting far too messy for my liking!
Dum dua dum dum!
Nintendo. Always innovating always copied
Of course it is, but it helps sometimes to break things down for those who don't know Weastie, especially things that people tend to hear about!
Nintendo. Always innovating always copied
Do a doo doo!
Rear View Mirror - F1 Championship Edition Video - PS3 - IGN
And where does Microsoft come into all of this?
The gameboy advance was used in the same way, so there!
Microsoft obviously have their own route. To be honest I'm still at a loss as to why they haven't released a decently designed machine gun attachment for the TPS/FPS crowd. That would surely boost them into the stratosphere!
Microsoft obviously have their own route. To be honest I'm still at a loss as to why they haven't released a decently designed machine gun attachment for the TPS/FPS crowd. That would surely boost them into the stratosphere!
Microsoft were pushing Xbox Live on Windows 7 phone.
How Will Xbox Live Work on Windows Phone 7?
I don't think it's anywhere near what Nintendo and Sony are doing though.
How Will Xbox Live Work on Windows Phone 7?
I don't think it's anywhere near what Nintendo and Sony are doing though.
Because most normal people (hc gamers) don't want to be jumping round the living room.
I'm not talking about on the rails or physical movement here.
No, you had an app on the GBA that synced to the console. This is similar to how that F1 demo worked, but not to how remote play nor this WiiU thing works. Trouble with remote play was that there was no direct connection between PS3 and PSP, it all went through a router, PSP had no Bluetooth for the control feedback, and was only wireless b I think.
Good lord I cannot wait.
Ninja Gaiden 3, new Batman, Witcher 2, ME3, Skyrim, Darksiders 2, Deus Ex....
Goodbye 2012. It was nice knowing you.
Goodbye 2012. It was nice knowing you.
I can only imagine what the next Fallout is gonna be like using this Skyrim engine. Jesus Christ.
The amazing part is how relatively well Skyrim looked on the xbox360. They must be truly pushing the hardware to its max, no?
They're pushing my balls to breaking point, I know that much!
Saints row: The Third looks insane 
Saints Row: The Third E3 2011 Stage Demo (Xbox 360) - GameSpot Video
Saints Row: The Third E3 2011 Stage Demo (Xbox 360) - GameSpot Video
I thought the second one was brilliant.
Aye, don't want to open a can of worms but I genuinely had heaps more fun in Saints Row 2 than the more serious GTA IV. It felt as if SR2 was the more spirited successor to San Andreas than GTA IV was.
I personally thought GTA IV was boring and predictable. I've never really got into either of the Saints games, though I suppose I should fire them up and give them another try.
I loved GTA IV. I gave up on Saints Row 2 within a few hours.
I thought the story line to GTA IV was brilliant. Unfortunately the gameplay not so much. Very linear unlike San Andreas. You really can't go and play for hours without doing mission in IV. Stories from Liberty city on the other hand were great fun!
Looking at it from this direction, it does seem to have space in there for some reasonable active cooling solution, which makes more sense. Maybe it is clocked higher that I first thought.
Still, a very small box though.
Still, a very small box though.
E3 2011: John Carmack talks Wii U, PlayStation Vita, and next-gen Rage - News
The man speaks.
Interesting re: Vita:
That pretty much echoes my opinions on it all, and those I've often said. Going on the PS2, it's generally seen as the lesser of the three consoles of that time, but in actual fact it could compete at least with the GCN. The problem was with the latter you could access the power off the bat, with the PS2 (PSX was similar too) you had to get to grips with it yourself and that tikes time and money.
The man speaks.
Interesting re: Vita:
That pretty much echoes my opinions on it all, and those I've often said. Going on the PS2, it's generally seen as the lesser of the three consoles of that time, but in actual fact it could compete at least with the GCN. The problem was with the latter you could access the power off the bat, with the PS2 (PSX was similar too) you had to get to grips with it yourself and that tikes time and money.
If Kutaragi had still been around, I doubt that the PSP2 would look quite the same as it does now - you know what he was like, far to simple and underpowered the Vita is.
If one thing that PS3 and Cell has done for the general good is to force software engineers to think in a very different way to how they thought before, and it will stand them in good stead for years to come. Thinking in threads and bulk tasks will not cut it, it has to be small jobs that go through a scheduler. Even Valve finally did it.
Interesting thing however is that the likes of Carmack and Sweeney would really love to get enough processing power to go back to the software renderer.
If one thing that PS3 and Cell has done for the general good is to force software engineers to think in a very different way to how they thought before, and it will stand them in good stead for years to come. Thinking in threads and bulk tasks will not cut it, it has to be small jobs that go through a scheduler. Even Valve finally did it.
Interesting thing however is that the likes of Carmack and Sweeney would really love to get enough processing power to go back to the software renderer.
I agree with you here, though the problem in game development is it's so far moved over to resources to graphics that the quick and easy will always win (plus I'm not sure what they teach nowadays, but feck me cut and pasting seems to be the norm - damn Microsoft!) Hell if even I can program on some of these systems, then how hard can they be?
Again, don't answer that last part
I don't know if you've seen this, but it at least shows that some developers still think outside of the box.
SPU-Based Deferred Shading in BATTLEFIELD 3 for Playstation 3
SPU-Based Deferred Shading in BATTLEFIELD 3 for Playstation 3
Thanks, I'll have a look through that.
There are obviously still very creative people in the industry, though there's also some right twats who happen to be making these decisions. Like the guy who was a high up programmer on one of the stuntman games (won't say which, but it involved heavy loading times every time you failed, due to the physics engine resetting every time and making everything drop from the sky on startup like it was some revolutionary new way
). I asked him why it couldn't pre-can the starting values, since there were very few levels and you could integrate it into the world design tool anyway, and I remember the answer making me piss myself ~£50k a year for that!/Rant