Duncan Castles : Jose Mourinho on collision course with Ed Woodward over Manchester United transfers

Ed is in a difficult spot imo. Feels like with Morata if he said to Real, OK we'll pony up the extra £10m you want them we'd get him tomorrow. If we wait for another month or 6 weeks we may save £10m and get him anyway. £10m isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things, but if you are doing that with 3 or 4 players thats £30-£40m and its a pretty big chunk.
If you are Mourinho you are saying just get them in asap so I can have them for preseason, but if you are Ed you do have a budget and have to answer to the Glazers, regardless of what people think on here about "we are the richest club..... yada yada yada". Its still run as a business first and foremost.
 
buckooo1978 said:
yes I'm with you

does Mourinho want us just to offer 100m for Belotti, 60 for Perisic and 60 for Matic to seal the deals

I was frustrated by the Fergie 'value' years but we need our head checked if we are spending that kind of money on those players

mouthpiece Mourinho might have to actually do some coaching to get the best out of the very expensive players we already have
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This
 
The Purley King said:
Ed is in a difficult spot imo. Feels like with Morata if he said to Real, OK we'll pony up the extra £10m you want them we'd get him tomorrow. If we wait for another month or 6 weeks we may save £10m and get him anyway. £10m isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things, but if you are doing that with 3 or 4 players thats £30-£40m and its a pretty big chunk.
If you are Mourinho you are saying just get them in asap so I can have them for preseason, but if you are Ed you do have a budget and have to answer to the Glazers, regardless of what people think on here about "we are the richest club..... yada yada yada". Its still run as a business first and foremost.
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Absolutely. We already get overcharged for every signing we make pretty much, that situation isnt going to get any better by us agreeing to just pay whatever it takes to get deals done quickly. We may be the richest club in the world, but we wont be for long with that strategy.

Im not saying Woodward is perfect by any means. He was pretty hopeless in his first couple of windows, we are still paying the price for an almighty cockup with Rooney's contract, for which he deserves a big share of the blame. But its still way too early to judge his performance in this window.
 
I want the right transfers done for two reasons:
1) Obviously, they'll likely improve the side.
2) Mourinho has no excuses, which he really shouldn't have next season.
 
noodlehair said:
Of those successes:

I’d rather look at it year on year:


Year 1 - We know he paid over Fellaini's buyout clause...you seem keen to blame this on Moyes but transfer negotiations are not the manager's job, they are Woodward's...if he listened to Moyes it is still 100% HIS fault for doing so instead of using some common sense. Spent all summer pretending we were about to sign Fabregas, didn't. Failed to sign a left back despite it being very obvious all summer that the manager wanted one. Failed to sign a midfielder due to spending all summer dithering over Fabregas then trying to force through a transfer for Herrera on deadline day. A massive fecking mess basically. The Fellaini fiasco alone would get you the boot from most jobs.


Year 2 - Still to this day unexplained signings of players who did not address the issues within the squad and who didn't seem to have anything to do with players LVG wanted, which left us with an imbalanced and crippled squad. Rojo signed who Giggs has revealed since was one of the clubs targets under Moyes. Left back and midfielder who should have been signed a year earlier FINALLY brought in. Falcao and already mentioned Di Maria signings…ok he got them done but what purpose did they serve? Debatable whether LVG had much of a say. Blind signed.


Year 3 - Seemed to sign players the manager wanted however this didn't happen until after LVG had a not too cryptic whinge to the media about it taking too long. LVG moaning all summer and then even during the season about needing more speed and creativity and us having targets...no one signed who fit this bill (apart from Martial who was signed after the season had started). Not sure how much of this exactly can be blamed on Woodward since LVG was contradicting himself every other sentence, so who knows what instructions Woodward even had. Some kind of prolonged and disruptive idiocy involving De Gea which dragged out into the season…seemed to be painted as a victory of some kind on here but could easily have been sorted by us just saying he wasn’t for sale.


Year 4 – Surprisingly little fuss or delay in signing of Zlatan, Bailly and Mkhitaryan. Pogba transfer dragged out for longer than ANY transfer I can remember. Eventually signed amidst much moaning from people on here about the fee paid. First year in four you can say with any certainty at all that Woodward was given targets and signed all or a majority of players to fit those targets.


Year 5 – So far, a defender signed. Prolonged faffing around over everything else, in spite of manager being wary enough to make it publicly known that he’d done his bit before the season even ended. Apparently fecking around on holiday in New Zealand and has managed to piss off the manager according to some guy who apparently just writes whatever Mourinho thinks..


To be honest, you can be speculative about what is and isn’t Woodward’s responsibility and other factors…but it’s very difficult to point to occasions where he has done a good enough job that any trust can be placed in him to sign the players the manager wants, in time. Its not an easy job but people seem more than willing to make excuses and blame everyone except Woodward, for what, is quite literally, Woodward’s job.


Most of the excuses don’t add up, like trying to claim “none of us know what Woodward does”…we know enough and this same reasoning doesn’t stop people criticising the manager or players. Or “the next manager might not want x player”…this is a daft argument and also rendered irrelevant by the club paying a world record fee for a player because Mourinho wanted them.
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A pretty good summary in my view, emphasizing the often overlooked point that it is Woodward's job to get players in, yet if that doesn't happen then it's somehow the managers fault for having unrealistic expectations. Mourinho's list was supposed to have secondary choices on it too, wasn't it? So if one target can't be obtained for whatever reason, there is a back up option already provided. If Woody is still on the primary targets we may need the window to be open for another 2 months at this rate. Might offer some insight as to why Rojo wasn't signed until after the manager who initially wanted him had already left! :)
 
ghagua said:
That's why I'm saying, come back to me when Conte leaves over player signings.
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You're missing the point, he won't leave... But he was using the media to make threats and play his agenda... Conte 'i'm going to leave if we don't sign somebody' is the just like these Jose 'frustration' reports. So therefore Conte has been b!tching to the media, and thus your original point was wrong.

Not hard to follow really.
 
noodlehair said:
Pogba ended up being signed so late that he wasn’t training with us (or anyone else) until after the season had started. This was despite it the whole thing dragging on all summer. Seems like this irritated Jose as this year he was very keen to point out that he’d already handed over his targets.
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That's because he was on holidays till July 30 after playing in the euros till July first week. He was signed around august 5th. Nothing to do with us.

noodlehair said:
To be honest, you can be speculative about what is and isn’t Woodward’s responsibility and other factors…but it’s very difficult to point to occasions where he has done a good enough job that any trust can be placed in him to sign the players the manager wants, in time. Its not an easy job but people seem more than willing to make excuses and blame everyone except Woodward, for what, is quite literally, Woodward’s job.
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Except the cases he did well? He signed all the signings lvg wanted before the tour in 2015. He also signed all players lvg wanted in 2014. He signed all players mourinho wanted in 2016. So basically 3 windows where managers wanted the players and he delivered on them. It's quite obvious to anyone that he has done a good job.
 
apotheosis said:
A pretty good summary in my view, emphasizing the often overlooked point that it is Woodward's job to get players in, yet if that doesn't happen then it's somehow the managers fault for having unrealistic expectations. Mourinho's list was supposed to have secondary choices on it too, wasn't it? So if one target can't be obtained for whatever reason, there is a back up option already provided. If Woody is still on the primary targets we may need the window to be open for another 2 months at this rate. Might offer some insight as to why Rojo wasn't signed until after the manager who initially wanted him had already left! :)
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Assumes that Moyes did indeed want Rojo, and more importantly, that Rojo would have signed to play under Moyes. It's something a lot of folks miss. Moyes has also admitted to wanting Ronaldo, Bale, Thiago and Fabregas. A case could be made that the only two realistic targets among those actually may have chosen us - but didn't want to play for a Moyes (who let's face it, we all knew was horribly out of his depth).

Under LvG, there's nothing to show that the players signed were not the ones he wanted. He clearly was the driving force behind Bastian, Schneiderlin and Blind, while he didn't seem to make any demurring noises about Falcao or di Maria either. He also said he green-lighted the already-identified Shaw and Herrera.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Ah right, missed that, fair enough. I thought I'd read that he wanted his business complete by the summer tour.
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So you were having a moan throughout this period without having to check the facts? Sums it up quite nicely.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Ah right, missed that, fair enough. I thought I'd read that he wanted his business complete by the summer tour.
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As pointed out dozens of times and some people just will not let it sink in, EVERY CLUB would love their business done early, the reality of getting transfers done quite often gets in the way of that hope.
 
Nothing happens until someone sells something...that's business 101. You can stump up all the money and do all the paperwork, but the seller is the hammer and will dictate when it will happen. Patience is a virtue and too many people don't have it.
 
devilish said:
With all due respect but every serious club in the world has financial constraints and will show concerns if the manager go OTT. Look around you. Ancelotti had already said that he won't be spending silly money on Sanchez. Conte was forced to resign at Juventus because the club refused to go toe to toe against Chelsea for Cuadrado. Even SAF had to work with constraints and we're talking here about a proven winner who kept winning throughout his entire career not someone who lost his job at Chelsea and whose former 2 clubs are better off without him.

Now lets focus on Mou's career at United shall we? Mou spent 157m last year which is a club record. Sure he added 4 decent players to the team but he hardly filled our cabinet with trophies either. Cynics might say that 157m for the league cup and its European equivalent is quite a steep price to pay. However, the club is happy with Mou reaching the minimum requirements (ie CL qualification) and had already shown eagerness to back him up. In matter of fact we've already signed Lindelof.

Having said that its one thing backing the manager off and its another throwing money in the bin. 50m for a 28 year old whose hardly world class is crazy same as spending 40m for a player Chelsea will sell if they bring in an upgrade. United's dynasty was built around careful spending not on buying 28 year olds for crazy money.

Now if Mou feels such constraints are a bit too much then he can always resign. I will be very surprised if he ends up with a club who'll give him as much e-way and money to spend as we do. Moratti was a Mou softie but if the latter spent 157m to bring 2 plastic cups then rest assured that he would crucify him.
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fallengt said:
I dont understand Mourinho & Castle ' strategy here . Shifting blame early ?

From Glazers' eyes paying 100m for Perisic & Matic is idiotic. Those names aint exactly marketable and they'd worth 5 m each in 2 years. And why must it be them? Where're the alts ? We're paying premium for squad players. Glazers would fire Mourinho 5 times before they fire Ed.

Both parties at fault here but I'm with Ed on this one. We definitely need a DoF though
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Dr. StrangeHate said:
Woodward successes:
1) Pogba from Juventus (everyone wanted him)
2) Mikhi from Dortmund (tough club to deal with unless your Bayern)
3) Martial from Monaco (in a few days got it done as far as LVG account goes)
4) Herrera from Bilbao (notoriously difficult club to deal with)
5) Di Maria from Real Madrid (absolute pricks)

Woodword Failures:
1) Fellaini (probably down to dithering Moyes that we got him for more than buyout clause)
2) Fabio Coentrao (you can't let dithering Moyes leave it that late)
3) Kroos, Ronaldo, Bale (these are fantasy targets)
4) Griezmann (Atletico Transfer Ban)
5) Fabregas (should have gotten this one over, probably didn't want to play under Moyes)
6) Pedro (chose Chelsea, can't do much about that)

I don't think Woodward is the issue here. Inter want to bleed us dry for Perisic and Woodward rightly doesn't want to over spend on a winger that only Mourinho will consider useful and the next manager will discard if Mourinho doesn't work out. Chelsea don't want to sell Matic until they can get their midfield sorted (nothing Woodward can do about that). Morata is moving along as far as the report says.

What do you expect Woodward to do with the targets that Mourinho has identified (if we believe the press)?
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buckooo1978 said:
yes I'm with you

does Mourinho want us just to offer 100m for Belotti, 60 for Perisic and 60 for Matic to seal the deals

I was frustrated by the Fergie 'value' years but we need our head checked if we are spending that kind of money on those players

mouthpiece Mourinho might have to actually do some coaching to get the best out of the very expensive players we already have
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You guys brought some very interesting points which I agree with, spending 100 m plus on matic and perisic is madness for guys who we will have one year in their 20's, mileage levels? I really don't think they will be that good in a few years time, let alone their peaks years from now are underwhelming at this stage, I be very worried adding nearly 30 year olds to the squad. The glazers and woodward would expect spending the kind of money there be a settled squad, and we can guarantee perisic many will expect something better than him next year, and we would already spent over the top for a player that is very average at best at this stage. If they spending big, its got to improve the starting 11, not its slightly improved squad. For Mourinho if true to throw his toys out of the pram because the club won't spend that kind of money on a 28 year old going 29, is outrages. I agree, this is why I feel we need a DOF, to put a lease on a manager drunk spending on players he will want better next season who are almost 30, and a DOF to see better structure in place on players who will be an investment not discarded next season. It does make me nervous having ageing players on our books, and I am defiantly on ed's side on this careless demanding spending by Mourinho
 
Oneunited26 said:
You guys brought some very interesting points which I agree with, spending 100 m plus on matic and perisic is madness for guys who we will have one year in their 20's, mileage levels? I really don't think they will be that good in a few years time, let alone their peaks years from now are underwhelming at this stage, I be very worried adding nearly 30 year olds to the squad. The glazers and woodward would expect spending the kind of money there be a settled squad, and we can guarantee perisic many will expect something better than him next year, and we would already spent over the top for a player that is very average at best at this stage. If they spending big, its got to improve the starting 11, not its slightly improved squad. For Mourinho if true to throw his toys out of the pram because the club won't spend that kind of money on a 28 year old going 29, is outrages
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I can understand why Mou would want the likes of Perisic in the team as he would provide width + he'll be a great mentor for Martial. However its one thing spending 20-30m on a guy and its another spending 50m. Sure, United is rich. However that doesn't give the manager an excuse to squander our money in that irresponsible way.
 
devilish said:
Do you think Matic and Perisic are the best players in the world? Should we spend 50m-60m on them?
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Where did i say that? But perhaps those players would be a lot better than some of the players we have. My wishlist would be: Mbappe, Dembele (dortmund),Fabinho,Tierney and nainggolan. I would like to see Rooney,Fellaini,Young,Jones and Januzaj leave. I think we have some really good young players in Tuanzebe, TFM and the young Gomes plus hopefully A.Peirera gets games.
 
devilish said:
I can understand why Mou would want the likes of Perisic in the team as he would provide width + he'll be a great mentor for Martial. However its one thing spending 20-30m on a guy and its another spending 50m. Sure, United is rich. However that doesn't give the manager an excuse to squander our money in that irresponsible way.
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The fact is, we still didn't spend that 50m and there's nothing suggesting that we're willing to, so if Jose has insisted on us paying such a price why we didn't pay it till now ?

There's nothing suggesting Jose told Ed to bring him Perisic for 60m.
 
devilish said:
I can understand why Mou would want the likes of Perisic in the team as he would provide width + he'll be a great mentor for Martial. However its one thing spending 20-30m on a guy and its another spending 50m. Sure, United is rich. However that doesn't give the manager an excuse to squander our money in that irresponsible way.
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I agree, 100 m for 2 players who will have one year in their 20's, that is reckless if I ever saw it and they be stuck on our books. He is worth 23 million at best and that's being kind. Whether you're rich, or super rich, a company demands an investment when that kind of cash is spent, especially when they not improving the squad to a great level that's even more wasted spending. Mourinho is the same guy who strips martial of his squad number, gives it to zlaten now he's gone, and martial seemed moody from that point onwards, and wants a inferior player to replace him in the starting 11. How about morinho puts an arm on martial's shoulders, give him a no7 shirt and say, hey anthony you my go to guy on the wings prove your worth. If he cannot get the best out of Mkhi and martial, then he is just wasting the clubs treasury buying more average. I am all for signing him at a price, our problem was scoring goals and all I see is mourinho not solving problems but wasting money. Pogba is an investment, these signings are not.
 
Woodward is doing right by the club I am sure.

We are going to have an underwhelming summer if we get the players we have been linked to IMO.

None of them would start for the top clubs in Europe. That's at least what we should be aiming for. Not more okay to good players.
 
apotheosis said:
From a reasoned generalized perspective i agree with u that clubs should look to work within some sort of limits. But as i said jose has never worked that way, and everyone who has backed him has been rewarded with success. They have probably been left with a fair amount of debt for it too, but tbf, that has never seemed to bother the Glazers much has it? :p So for me, u just can't have it both ways, not with Mourinho. He is very successful specifically because he is allowed to work without restraints, and every time restraints have been placed upon him it has not ended well for either party.

It's all about the winning. If we win the PL this year who will look back and moan about paying whatever for whoever? If Mourinho doesn't win after backing him financially then he should be sacked. But u can't place restraints on someone who has provably and regularly provided success without them. You are simply cutting his wings and expecting him to fly just as well.

United's last PL success was instigated by the purchase of a 28yr old injury prone player with only a year left on his contract. No resell value, no real value for money considering what had been spouted by the manager for the few years previous, yet with hindsight it was the right move whether it looked it at the time or not. Please note that all of Chelsea's success over the past decade or so, was instigated by buying 28yrolds for big money and so was Inter's.

So i take your point, and in 99% of cases it's perfectly valid, but it just doesn't apply to Jose im afraid. We hired him, warts and all, knowing exactly what he is and how he works best, now either back him and judge him accordingly at the end of the season, or get rid and put someone at the helm who will better adhere to the financial concerns of the board. Mourinho has always been an all or nothing manager and there simply is no middle ground, irrespective of whether or not we feel there should be.
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Mou has been begging to run a proper club for years. He hasn't managed one since he left Porto. Well, proper clubs run in a responsible way so unless he adapts to that then he's better off back to the circus he came from (if of course they want him back). Im pretty sure that if we was managing Bayern or Juventus they won't allow him to squander 50m on Perisic. Actually if I know Juventus well, they would place far more restrictions then he currently have at United.

Clubs like United aren't interested in instant success. They are interested in building squads that can endure the tests of time.Its a shame if Mou had reverted to his old ways because that will directly go against the club's culture. Nearly a century old United history show that this will end up in misery.

So here is the thing. If Mou is reasonable then he will repeat what he did last season and go for targets that offer value. The club isn't afraid to spend loads of money but they need to be reassured that the player is worth it (Ex Pogba) not just for the present needs but also for the future need. For the rest, well, the club is willing to offer competitive bids but it won't go overboard. That's fair enough isn't it?

Regarding Mou, he needs to be very careful what he does. His former two clubs are better off without him and his record with us is positive but hardly brilliant. You don't spend 150m+ to win the European plastic cup and then rave that as a success
 
Is getting new players in solely the responsibility of Woodward? Surely one of the points of having a big-name manager is to help attract big-name players and it isn't sufficient for him just to hand a list of names to Woodward and clear off on holiday.
 
el3mel said:
The fact is, we still didn't spend that 50m and there's nothing suggesting that we're willing to, so if Jose has insisted on us paying such a price why we didn't pay it till now ?

There's nothing suggesting Jose told Ed to bring him Perisic for 60m.
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Managers give CEOs names. If Jose asked for Perisic and Inter are asking ridiculous money for him then what does he expect Ed to do? Surely he can't appease them just to keep Mou happy?

Mou must be ready to alter his plans and come out with a plan b and c. That's what top managers do.
 
rocks13 said:
Is getting new players in solely the responsibility of Woodward? Surely one of the points of having a big-name manager is to help attract big-name players and it isn't sufficient for him just to hand a list of names to Woodward and clear off on holiday.
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Do you actually think the manager won't talk to any player we try to get and get his agreement before Ed moving to bid ? It's clear we have full agreement with Perisic and Morata. The only thing that is hindering the transfers are the price being asked for both.
 
devilish said:
Managers give CEOs names. If Jose asked for Perisic and Inter are asking ridiculous money for him then what do we expect Ed to do? Surely he can't appease them can he?
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Move to the replacement in the manager's list ?
 
devilish said:
Mou has been begging to run a proper club for years. He hasn't managed one since he left Porto. Well, proper clubs run in a responsible way so unless he adapts to that then he's better off back to the circus he came from (if of course they want him back). Im pretty sure that if we was managing Bayern or Juventus they won't allow him to squander 50m on Perisic. Actually if I know Juventus well, they would place far more restrictions then he currently have at United.

Clubs like United aren't interested in instant success. They are interested in building squads that can endure the tests of time.Its a shame if Mou had reverted to his old ways because that will directly go against the club's culture. Nearly a century old United history show that this will end up in misery.

So here is the thing. If Mou is reasonable then he will repeat what he did last season and go for targets that offer value. The club isn't afraid to spend loads of money but they need to be reassured that the player is worth it (Ex Pogba) not just for the present needs but also for the future need. For the rest, well, the club is willing to offer competitive bids but it won't go overboard. That's fair enough isn't it?

Regarding Mou, he needs to be very careful what he does. His former two clubs are better off without him and his record with us is positive but hardly brilliant. You don't spend 150m+ to win the European plastic cup and then rave that as a success
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Is it not "normal" that prices of players rise with bigger tv deals?
 
Once the links to Morata, Perisic and Matic surfaced everyone started to moan why aren't we going for top players like we did last summer, these signings would be underwhelming, why aren't we interested in top player 'X' and 'Y'! Now you have the same posters moaning that why did Mourinho want these players when they are playing for clubs who are stubborn, difficult to deal with and he should've been more savvy with the targets? Which one is it, can people on here make their mind up for once?

In what world are the names I've mentioned unattainable? It's not like he's asked Woodward to do a deal for Ronaldo, or asked him to try to sign players from our rivals for eg. Sanchez.

Reality is every club knows we are loaded, we've constantly trotted out 'biggest club in the world' tag and are now facing difficulties due to it in the market. Morata to Milan had been rumored all summer long, Di Marzio even reported a €60 million offer being submitted by Milan while Madrid were holding out for €70 million. Fast forward 3 weeks later, our €70 million offer was rejected and Madrid now want €90 million. Can't people see acceptable valuation of the player suddenly rose by 30% once we got involved? Do you think Lyon president would quote us €50 million for Lacazette if we were interested?

We have two options, we can either secure managers target by overpaying and therefore keep him happy and give him the squad he wants. Or go for cheaper alternatives which I presume manager has already made know but then we'd be giving him a squad which he's not completely happy with and may handicap our progress this season. Ultimately, we'll end up paying over the odds no matter if we go for Plan 'A', 'B' or 'C'. We are stuck in a difficult place and there is no way to come out on top.
 
el3mel said:
Move to the replacement in the manager's list ?
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By the looks of it, we hardly have a plan B or a plan C. Else we won't keep on bidding for Perisic (we've recently improved our bid to 40m and it was rejected).

The situation is simple. United broke the bank for Pogba and that was done under Mou's orders. Now every club in Italy think we're some sort of Fr Christmas who love throwing our money around just to keep our manager happy. If Juventus can take United to the cleaners then why can't Inter do the same? Why can't they pay their FFP + buy Bernardeschi (even though the latter is 10 times the player Perisic is) with our money?

Also last summer we've pulled a fast one to Real with DDG. As they say Real remember.

Mou has been around for enough time to know that those repercussions are inevitable. He should have made a plan B, C and D just in case everyone start thinking we're suckers who love throwing our money around and he should avoided Real Madrid players. Instead we keep on insisting on difficult targets whom lets face it are hardly world class articles.


Its possible to buy some top quality players at decent prices. AC Milan had been doing so throughout the entire summer. Which makes you wonder. Why weren't we able to do the same? Maybe there's a reason behind us signing Ribalta?
 
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johanovic said:
Is it not "normal" that prices of players rise with bigger tv deals?
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Perisic is not worth 50m. Inter knows that, United knows that, heck even Inter fans know that. Their plan was pretty simple. United are suckers (ie they spent ridiculous money on Pogba) so if Juventus can take them to the cleaners then why cant Inter do the same? With 50m they could pay off the FFP and get their hands on Bernardeschi whose 10 times the player Perisic is.

Mou should have anticipated such a thing and should have provided Woody with a decent plan B, C and D. From a managerial POV, going for former players or players from former clubs does sound lazy to me. No wonder why we went for Ribalta who can do the scouting job on Mou's behalf.
 
devilish said:
By the looks of it, we hardly have a plan B or a plan C. Else we won't keep on bidding for Perisic (we've recently improved our bid to 40m and it was rejected).

The situation is simple. United broke the bank for Pogba and that was done under Mou's orders. Now every club in Italy think we're some sort of Fr Christmas who love throwing our money around just to keep our manager happy. If Juventus can take United to the cleaners then why can't Inter do the same? Why can't they pay their FFP + buy Bernardeschi (even though the latter is 10 times the player Perisic is)?

Also last summer we've pulled a fast one to Real with DDG. As they say Real remember.

Mou has been around for enough time to know that those repercussions are inevitable. He should have made a plan B, C and D just in case everyone start thinking we're suckers who love throwing our money around and he should avoided Real Madrid players. Instead we keep on insisting on difficult targets whom lets face it are hardly world class articles.


Its possible to buy some top quality players at decent prices. AC Milan had been doing so throughout the entire summer. Which makes you wonder. Why weren't we able to do the same? Maybe there's a reason behind us signing Ribalta?
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I hardly think we don't have other plans for each player we're tracking in the market. It doesn't mean that since the journalists didn't just get enough information about other targets that we don't have a plan B. Also, it's still early on, only beginning of July so we should take our time with plan A in each category before moving to the plan B. Just because we still didn't move it , doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Milan is doing a good market but hardly any player they get can be classified as a top quality, they're good but not great and some of them are considered young talents and I don't think even their fans will predict higher than 3rd or 4th last season.

Finally, you consider these deals difficult so what makes you thing the other target will be easier ?! If Inter and Real did this why the other clubs won't ?
 
el3mel said:
I hardly think we don't have other plans for each player we're tracking in the market. It doesn't mean that since the journalists didn't just get enough information about other targets that we don't have a plan B. Also, it's still early on, only beginning of July so we should take our time with plan A in each category before moving to the plan B. Just because we still didn't move it , doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Milan is doing a good market but hardly any player they get can be classified as a top quality, they're good but not great and some of them are considered young talents and I don't think even their fans will predict higher than 3rd or 4th last season.

Finally, you consider these deals difficult so what makes you thing the other target will be easier ?! If Inter and Real did this why the other clubs won't ?
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Well you might be right. However there's no clue of United having a plan B either. We kept bidding for Perisic like spoiled children who had been just denied their favourite toy even though the valutation for him border to the ridiculous. Don't take me wrong, some deals are complex and some players are worth going overboard for. Nevertheless Perisic is not one of those players.

Inter and Real have one hell of an axe to grind against us. Real are still licking their wounds after that fax 'broke down'. Inter were first ridiculed by Mou (who turned them down for us) and then we went on spending ridiculous money on Pogba which strengthened Juventus position considerably. Juventus came to a whisker from winning the treble which would have stripped away the shine from Moratti's only achievement. I assure you that is quite a devious club (Liverpool in comparision are the care bears).
 
rocks13 said:
Is getting new players in solely the responsibility of Woodward? Surely one of the points of having a big-name manager is to help attract big-name players and it isn't sufficient for him just to hand a list of names to Woodward and clear off on holiday.
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You have one point person who handles the negotiations, the manager in this case would be involved in talking to the player and his agent about what the plans are for using the player, etc.

Also your description of what Jose did, is probably not very accurate. He did not just hand a list to Ed and clear off, I would gather that there probably were more than a few meetings, discussions, etc in developing the list, looking at what the prices might be so we can see what combination fits the budget, etc.
 
JustAFan said:
You have one point person who handles the negotiations, the manager in this case would be involved in talking to the player and his agent about what the plans are for using the player, etc.

Also your description of what Jose did, is probably not very accurate. He did not just hand a list to Ed and clear off, I would gather that there probably were more than a few meetings, discussions, etc in developing the list, looking at what the prices might be so we can see what combination fits the budget, etc.
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Why do you think the manager does that each time?
 
devilish said:
By the looks of it, we hardly have a plan B or a plan C. Else we won't keep on bidding for Perisic (we've recently improved our bid to 40m and it was rejected).

The situation is simple. United broke the bank for Pogba and that was done under Mou's orders. Now every club in Italy think we're some sort of Fr Christmas who love throwing our money around just to keep our manager happy. If Juventus can take United to the cleaners then why can't Inter do the same? Why can't they pay their FFP + buy Bernardeschi (even though the latter is 10 times the player Perisic is) with our money?

Also last summer we've pulled a fast one to Real with DDG. As they say Real remember.

Mou has been around for enough time to know that those repercussions are inevitable. He should have made a plan B, C and D just in case everyone start thinking we're suckers who love throwing our money around and he should avoided Real Madrid players. Instead we keep on insisting on difficult targets whom lets face it are hardly world class articles.


Its possible to buy some top quality players at decent prices. AC Milan had been doing so throughout the entire summer. Which makes you wonder. Why weren't we able to do the same? Maybe there's a reason behind us signing Ribalta?
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Its possible, if you got good enough scouts, shrewd in the market its possible. Acceptions for paying over the odds of their time, pogba 2016, ronaldo 2009, bale 2013, but these players improved a teams starting 11, paying over the odds for anyone is dangerous for many reasons. And signing guys who have a better understanding of our scouting network, because spending that kind of money for a perisic for me shows a lack of gaze in the manager department, there is defiantly better out there I don't think Mourinho is looking hard enough
 
devilish said:
Well you might be right. However there's no clue of United having a plan B either. We kept bidding for Perisic like spoiled children who had been just denied their favourite toy even though the valutation for him border to the ridiculous. Don't take me wrong, some deals are complex and some players are worth going overboard for. Nevertheless Perisic is not one of those players.
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We have been bidding for him through June, the first month of the transfers and I said, hardly any club will give up on a player and move to plans B and C in June while there's enough time, also Ed was trying to use their problem with FFP for his use delaying the deal till he failed in his attempt anyway, so there's understandable reasons for us persisting on him till the end of June, doesn't mean we don't have other plans but we need to take our time first with the plan A before deciding to move on.
 
He clearly wants Morata, Perisic and Fabinho or Matic.

None of these players are particularly "marquee" so why they can't get them signed up already is beyond me.
 
devilish said:
Well you might be right. However there's no clue of United having a plan B either. We kept bidding for Perisic like spoiled children who had been just denied their favourite toy even though the valutation for him border to the ridiculous. Don't take me wrong, some deals are complex and some players are worth going overboard for. Nevertheless Perisic is not one of those players.
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My assumption with the Perisic deal is that we wanted him for a specific price, we offered that but werent willing to go higher. Inter dug their heels in so no deal was possible. I dont get the point you are making really, bidding like spoilt children, despite you saying yourself the valuation was unrealistic. What is spoilt about bidding an amount you regard as fair and walking away if you couldnt get it done at that price? It seems entirely rational to me.
 
devilish said:
Well you might be right. However there's no clue of United having a plan B either. We kept bidding for Perisic like spoiled children who had been just denied their favourite toy even though the valutation for him border to the ridiculous. Don't take me wrong, some deals are complex and some players are worth going overboard for. Nevertheless Perisic is not one of those players.
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This is why they are called negotiations. You don't just put in an offer, get rejected and then stomp off to buy something else because your first offer was rejected. You look at the counter offer (if one received), look at what you can do to sweeten the deal, sometimes you play a waiting game seeing if you can call their bluff, just as they might play a waiting game to call yours, I imagine sometimes it takes days for them to get back to you on your offer, then it might take some time to put together your new offer (considering there might be other things you and they are busy doing).

Of course there is a plan B, probably even a plan C and maybe D, E and F. Don't mistake there being no words from some journo or twitter ITK with there being a lack of planning.
 
@devilish Do you honestly believe Mourinho has handed him a list of only one set of transfer targets? You have absolutely nothing to back your statement that there is no plan B, C or D. It's first week of July, transfer window isn't going to shut in a week's time so why is hard for you to stomach that he is still trying to sign Perisic who presumably is a first choice target?

Mourinho may be unhappy but even he said that Woodward has until August 31st to give the signings he needs, why should he start panicking and move on to alternatives when there is clearly a lot of time left and he feels he can secure a primary target for the manager? If we were in late August and he was still wasting time on Perisic I'd agree with you but right now it doesn't make any sense.

Also, every club will be 'difficult' to deal with because of reasons I've mentioned in my previous post. It doesn't matter if Woodward goes for Plan A, B or C, every club will be looking to bleed us dry. We put ourselves in this position by wasting massive amounts of money since Fergie left on mostly junk/poor signings. With Mourinho at the very least you could point to the fact all his 4 signings improved our playing XI.

People are overreacting to this article, it's no different to the pieces which were printed by Italian journalists in relation to Conte and Chelsea a couple of weeks back. Preseason is about to start soon and neither club hasn't made progress in the market as the manager had expected, that's why they are putting the pressure on the board to get the job done quicker.
 
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