Downing to Liverpool?

I'm a bit baffled why we're going so British. At those prices. I know Dalglish wants as many lads signed now so he can get them together for start of training in a fortnight's time (as well as future FIFA home rulings).

Could be a sign we've tentatively put feelers out in the European market (Mata, etc) and it doesn't look like we're realistically in with a chance of scooping the cream. So just get the Brits done and dusted, possibly.
 
Dumpstar said:
Jones was an interesting one. Obviously Manutd didn't need him for another season at the very least. But couldn't let Arsenal or Liverpool get their hands on him so had to delve into their "cash available in the bank" reserves that we've been hearing about.

Certainly will make the real transfer window (ie. European) interesting when we all go foreigner shopping. How much will we both have left?
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We can announce deals with European clubs as of now as far as I understand. Just they can't go through later. We don't suddenly start making european bids later, they just go through at a later date officially.
 
Allforone said:
would you agree your best performance of the season came away at Fulham where Carroll was nowehere to be seen? a week later he came back and you got dicked by Spurs at home and played shit.
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Yes I would. Him coming back seemed to upset the apple cart but he was coming back from injury, not after a 10 game run. So we basically played against Spurs with 10 men, while Carroll found some form and match fitness.

Whether he's our new Emile Heskey remains to be seen. Thankfully Dalglish does not share Houllier's (or even Rafa's) footballing philosophy.
 
Dumpstar said:
I'm a bit baffled why we're going so British. At those prices. I know Dalglish wants as many lads signed now so he can get them together for start of training in a fortnight's time (as well as future FIFA home rulings).

Could be a sign we've tentatively put feelers out in the European market (Mata, etc) and it doesn't look like we're realistically in with a chance of scooping the cream. So just get the Brits done and dusted, possibly.
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Where's the money coming from, the owners?
As it's definitely quite a change from the H+G days
 
You've probably chosen a very wrong time to go all-British as British football hasn't been in such a poor state in a while, very few of the youngsters are really that promising and you haven't even got the best of them. Carroll is a very good striker who will deliver for you no doubt but you would get an equally good player from outside of UK for less than half the price. Hell, someone like Bendtner offers similar quality and he won't get sold for more than £10m.
 
think he would be a good signing

when was the last time Liverpool had a quality winger

McManaman/Walters/Barnes
 
@Ed - no idea, apparently FSG investors. Still squeaky bum time when this comes back in some financial reports. But can't think of that for now, onwards and upwards.

@Sarni - Got a feeling some of these players are stop gap measures to get into CL then attract some decent talent (foreign or English). With their ages we may get some money back (i.e. £25m for Carroll? £12-15m for Henderson? £8-10m for Downing?) Any loss we make on their sales may be counter balanced by the lower salaries they may earn (i.e less than £100k+ a week most of the top talent demand nowadays). This is just IMO.
 
Dumpstar said:
Will Wenger be booed out of his job by then after only having signed Samba?
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Even I'd join Jo in the Wenger-out crew if he spunked £85M on four average players. I'll bet when the window shuts we'll have 3 better players for about £25M.
 
Dumpstar said:
A bit unfair out of context:

£35m for Carroll, a definite improvement on Ngog
£18m for Henderson, an improvement on Spearing
£18m for Downing, a improvement on an empty left position
£8 million for Adam, an improvement on Gerrard being out for half the season

And that's leaving out Suarez who is a direct Torres replacement for half the money.

Whereas you lot have spent:

£20m on De Gea, no improvement - direct replacement of VDS
£19m on Jones, no improvement - Smalling is first in line as sub
£18m on Young, still don't understand this as you have Rooney for the free role and Nani for the wing

All figures above approximates, and you are the league chasing team while we are only concerned with getting CL football back.
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I think you need to factor in that transfers are made with a long-term view in mind, it doesn't matter if they're improvements if they're still not good enough...
 
Dumpstar said:
@Sarni - Got a feeling some of these players are stop gap measures to get into CL then attract some decent talent (foreign or English). With their ages we may get some money back (i.e. £25m for Carroll? £12-15m for Henderson? £8-10m for Downing?) Any loss we make on their sales may be counter balanced by the lower salaries they may earn (i.e less than £100k+ a week most of the top talent demand nowadays). This is just IMO.
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Surely you don't splash 35m on a player at a time it's not all that critical to get him (you didn't have that much to play כfor after January) or pay 16-20m on a 20 year old midfielder who is far from the final product, planning they'll get you into the top four and then you'll sell them without too much loss...

Obviously signing players who will bring you a step up and then be replaced by others who will be able to take you a further step, is very logical and it's been done before. But some of those deals aren't like that.
 
Dumpstar said:
@Ed - no idea, apparently FSG investors. Still squeaky bum time when this comes back in some financial reports. But can't think of that for now, onwards and upwards.

@Sarni - Got a feeling some of these players are stop gap measures to get into CL then attract some decent talent (foreign or English). With their ages we may get some money back (i.e. £25m for Carroll? £12-15m for Henderson? £8-10m for Downing?) Any loss we make on their sales may be counter balanced by the lower salaries they may earn (i.e less than £100k+ a week most of the top talent demand nowadays). This is just IMO.
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You've got some point there but Carroll is on big wages. He's not making less than 50k per week. You most definitely at least tripled his wages. If they buy you for 35m pounds you have great leverage in wage negotiations.
 
Allforone said:
Yeah but this is Stewart Downing, hes not a quality winger is he.
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Downing's a great crosser of the ball, he'll be whipping them into the box for Carroll to attack and Suarez to get onto the end of. Who's to say it won't work?

At the least it's another option for them.
 
He's a good crosser. He used to be better, then his delivery was pants for multiple seasons but now he's found a final ball again.

Thing is his resurgance of form has come after he stopped playing left wing
 
This is true, but I also think he's a better player for it. He worked on his right foot, then his shooting, then his passing...they've all developed well. Houllier even went as far as to say he's one of the few two-footed players in the league. He's worked hard to get where he is. I don't think he's a midtable player nor a mediocre one and if I was a Liverpool fan I'd be relatively happy with bringing him in, but £20m just seems ludicrous.
 
Brwned said:
This is true, but I also think he's a better player for it. He worked on his right foot, then his shooting, then his passing...they've all developed well. Houllier even went as far as to say he's one of the few two-footed players in the league. He's worked hard to get where he is. I don't think he's a midtable player nor a mediocre one and if I was a Liverpool fan I'd be relatively happy with bringing him in, but £20m just seems ludicrous.
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I reckon somewhere around 16m is a fair price, all things considered. Paying 25% over the odds is stretching it a bit, but I wouldn't call it ludicrous.

I am happy enough with Downing as a player for us. He has the quality to do well for a top side, though not likely to truly excel. Same way as I am happy with Glen Johnson as a player for us. But it's the context that decides whether it's the right decision. 17m for Johnson at the time, with the needs of the squad we had that weren't addressed, wasn't the right decision back then.

Signing Downing for 20m at the expense of going for someone like Mata isn't the right decision either. Supplementing the team with a player like Downing in addition to a 'marquee' signing in the echelon of Mata et al would make it an excellent purchase.
 
I like the way Liverpool are seemingly going about their business.

Downing for about £20m
Adam for about £8m
Henderson for £15m+

Add £35m on Carroll, meaning they've spent almost £80m on 4 not very good football players.

Excellent.
 
In fairness to Liverpool, their side doesn't look too bad at the minute for competing to get into the top 4. They'll surely make some defensive acquisitions to boost their team still further.
 
alastair said:
In fairness to Liverpool, their side doesn't look too bad at the minute for competing to get into the top 4. They'll surely make some defensive acquisitions to boost their team still further.
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Unless City, Chelsea, Arsenal and/or United screw up, neither Spurs or Liverpool will get into the CL.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Unless City, Chelsea, Arsenal and/or United screw up, neither Spurs or Liverpool will get into the CL.
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They're the outsiders, but it's possible. Moreso for Liverpool than for Spurs though. When you look at what Dalglish did for them in the second half of last season, and consider that he's improved that squad, it's looking positive for them. They might be heavily over-paying for fairly decent English players, but it doesn't really matter what they're spending on them - they're still improving the squad from what it was.
 
alastair said:
They're the outsiders, but it's possible. Moreso for Liverpool than for Spurs though. When you look at what Dalglish did for them in the second half of last season, and consider that he's improved that squad, it's looking positive for them. They might be heavily over-paying for fairly decent English players, but it doesn't really matter what they're spending on them - they're still improving the squad from what it was.
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That remains to be seen. I don't think Adam would be an improvement over anything. Downing is a decent enough player, but he's not as good as the wing options at any of the current top 4. Henderson looks very ordinary to me, though he could improve...
 
MikeUpNorth said:
That remains to be seen. I don't think Adam would be an improvement over anything. Downing is a decent enough player, but he's not as good as the wing options at any of the current top 4. Henderson looks very ordinary to me, though he could improve...
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They haven't signed Adam yet - I suspect they won't.

Downing's limited, but he's a good crosser of the ball and provides them with genuine width. You have to consider the quality of player that Liverpool can attract - they can't just go out and sign a top star because they're not in the CL. They could never be in for Sanchez, for example. Henderson is actually quite decent, and the U21 Championships gave him no chance of excelling because he was playing under a caveman.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
That remains to be seen. I don't think Adam would be an improvement over anything. Downing is a decent enough player, but he's not as good as the wing options at any of the current top 4. Henderson looks very ordinary to me, though he could improve...
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I agree with that.

The great big lank-haired unknown is Carroll. I thought it was ludicrous business at the time, but the way he started he looked like he has the character, and the finishing, to succeed.

That said, I have my doubts about him once they do get back in the CL. Not sure he has the mobility or guile to trouble teams at CL level.
 
I guess they see Carroll as a Christian Vieri style striker, I just don't think he's anywhere near that good.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Unless City, Chelsea, Arsenal and/or United screw up, neither Spurs or Liverpool will get into the CL.
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I disagree, i feel we have to put Liverpool ahead of both Arsenal and Spurs, for these reasons:


1. It seems very likely that both those teams will lose their respective best player.

2. Liverpool under Dalglish played with an excellent spirit in the latter stages of the season, and the signings they are making will improve both their squad and their first team. Not many teams will get much joy at Anfield next season.

3.Spurs and Arsenal both lack strength in depth and are poor defensively.

4. Spurs and Arsenal have poor spines to their team. Both lack a decent keeper, both lack reliable centre halves, both lack a quality DM, and both struggle for goals when their main striker is out.

5. Compare that to the spine of Liverpool: Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Suarez/Carroll. Much stronger than Arsenal's or Spurs imo.

My top 4 prediction for next season: Utd, Chelsea, City, Liverpool. In that order as it stands today, obviously a couple of marquis signings for any of the first 3 could significantly change that prediction.
 
I'd question the mental stability of anyone who has sanctioned a 35 Million purchase of Carroll.
 
Sultan said:
I'd question SAF's mental stability if he'd have sanctioned a 35 Million purchase of Carroll.
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It is an odd one isn't it... I guess we have to put it down to their new owners not really understanding football as yet.

If you gave someone £75m and all they came back with was Carroll, Henderson and Downing you'd think they were taking the piss.
 
apotheosis said:
I disagree, i feel we have to put Liverpool ahead of both Arsenal and Spurs, for these reasons:


1. It seems very likely that both those teams will lose their respective best player.

2. Liverpool under Dalglish played with an excellent spirit in the latter stages of the season, and the signings they are making will improve both their squad and their first team. Not many teams will get much joy at Anfield next season.

3.Spurs and Arsenal both lack strength in depth and are poor defensively.

4. Spurs and Arsenal have poor spines to their team. Both lack a decent keeper, both lack reliable centre halves, both lack a quality DM, and both struggle for goals when their main striker is out.

5. Compare that to the spine of Liverpool: Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Suarez/Carroll. Much stronger than Arsenal's or Spurs imo.

My top 4 prediction for next season: Utd, Chelsea, City, Liverpool. In that order as it stands today, obviously a couple of marquis signings for any of the first 3 could significantly change that prediction.
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If that's Liverpool's spine, that's a very poor one. Reina and Suárez are good, yes, but Carragher? He used to be good, a long time ago, now he's no way a reliable centre-back. Gerrard spends half the season in the stands because of injury these days then it takes him quite a long time to actually regain some semblance of form when he's back.

Liverpool lack strength in depth, too, without a doubt - more so than Spurs, in my opinion. Arsenal are debatable but they have much more quality in the first team than Liverpool do. Not to mention that many things you brought up against them apply to Liverpool as well: lack of reliable centre-backs, lack of goals when the best striker is out - and as for the quality DM, Lucas isn't much better (if at all) than Sandro or Song.
 
I've got to say, I think the assessments of Henderson are a bit harsh. Yeah, they overpaid a little but he's got good ability and further potential to improve and become a very good player for club and country IMO.

As for Downing, there's no value for money in anything above £13-£16m, and I'm being quite lenient in that sort of ballpark aswell. Having said that, he is a player who's got the attributes to get the maximum out of their other overpriced England international, Carroll, so I can see why they'd be looking at him but they could do a lot better for a lot cheaper IMO.
 
I'll be shocked if Liverpool manage to finish above Arsenal. Looking at both squads nevermind starting XI, Arsenal are just so much better all over the park. Signings like Henderson, Downing and Adam won't change a thing. Dalglish may be building a decent enough team and I have no doubt they'll be better than last season, but top 4 is pretty much out of reach. United, Chelsea and City are simply on another planet in terms of first 11 and squad depth.
 
Anduin said:
I'll be shocked if Liverpool manage to finish above Arsenal. Looking at both squads nevermind starting XI, Arsenal are just so much better all over the park. Signings like Henderson, Downing and Adam won't change a thing. Dalglish may be building a decent enough team and I have no doubt they'll be better than last season, but top 4 is pretty much out of reach. United, Chelsea and City are simply on another planet in terms of first 11 and squad depth.
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Depends what they do on top of the Henderson, and potential Downing and Adam deals really. If they pull off the mooted signings of Lennon and Clichy on top of that aswell as a half decent striker to cover Carroll and Suarez, they'll be well in contention to get CL football IMO.
 
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