Downing to Liverpool?

Boss said:
what's the reasons then?

because he's a big lump upfront with the footballing ability of a donut?

not far off 1 in 3?...right....

and you've never seen me play, I'm not as ridiculously Big as Heskey but I'm positive I've got more footballing ability.

Emile has blagged his way to having a footballing career and playing for England in countless tournaments, it's incredible.
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So you really know nothing about football then?
 
BaldwinLegend said:
So you really know nothing about football then?
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coming from the lad who said this bollocks?

BaldwinLegend said:
You're distorting the argument though - Downing, Carroll and Suarez don't fit anyone's definition of 'average'. 'Average' players don't become full England internationals,
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glass houses mate............
 
BaldwinLegend said:
That concerns their character though, and doesn't explain why fans lose all perspective when assessing players picked to represent their country.

The only similar sport I can think of is tennis, where Henman and Murray were regularly described as 'shit' whilst being the fourth best player in the world, and you'd struggle to argue that either Henman's or Murray's behaviour/achievements are such that they could be deemed as such.
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The behaviour's a side issue. My point would have been better made if I'd just said achievements.
 
Boss said:
what's the reasons then?

because he's a big lump upfront with the footballing ability of a donut?

not far off 1 in 3?...right....

and you've never seen me play, I'm not as ridiculously Big as Heskey but I'm positive I've got more footballing ability.

Emile has blagged his way to having a footballing career and playing for England in countless tournaments, it's incredible.
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For the record, I dont rate emile Heskey much and he's certainly limited but if you have "more footballing ability" then you must be a very good player.

By enlarge, the average PL player would be a world beater at League 2 level, especially one who has played for so long at the top level.

I've seen a lot of League's 1 and 2 over the years and have seen players drop from the Championship and look like Pele on umpteen occaisions. I've also known a lad who scored bucket loads of goals in a half season in the Northern Premier League (a few down the pyramid from the conference) and get a contract at my local club. Frankly, he couldnt get a kick - the difference in the pace of the game was staggering - he was a good finisher and worked really hard but didnt have the movement to get into the right positions. He's now back in the Northern League.

Players like Heskey may be "average" by PL standards but they don't get to the top league in England (leaving behind literally thousands of players from youth teams up and down the land) by being "average" footballers of teh type you see in the park.
 
RedRover said:
For the record, I dont rate emile Heskey much and he's certainly limited but if you have "more footballing ability" then you must be a very good player.

By enlarge, the average PL player would be a world beater at League 2 level, especially one who has played for so long at the top level.

I've seen a lot of League's 1 and 2 over the years and have seen players drop from the Championship and look like Pele on umpteen occaisions. I've also known a lad who scored bucket loads of goals in a half season in the Northern Premier League (a few down the pyramid from the conference) and get a contract at my local club. Frankly, he couldnt get a kick - the difference in the pace of the game was staggering - he was a good finisher and worked really hard but didnt have the movement to get into the right positions. He's now back in the Northern League.

Players like Heskey may be "average" by PL standards but they don't get to the top league in England (leaving behind literally thousands of players from youth teams up and down the land) by being "average" footballers of teh type you see in the park.
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Completely agree. Whenever a football fans says "I'm as good as <insert average to poor PL footballer's name here>" it's a sure sign they've never played competitive football at any sort of decent level. I've seen blokes who had unsuccesful trials at PL clubs run rings round us lesser mortals. The guys who go on to make a living at the highest level are in a different league entirely.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Completely agree. Whenever a football fans says "I'm as good as <insert average to poor PL footballer's name here>" it's a sure sign they've never played competitive football at any sort of decent level. I've seen blokes who had unsuccesful trials at PL clubs run rings round us lesser mortals. The guys who go on to make a living at the highest level are in a different league entirely.
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Completely agree. I can't even kick the ball as far as Heskey traps it. Different league really.
 
I've known players who have made it in the Premiership be awful when they played against us......most commonly known as Danny Collins.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Completely agree. Whenever a football fans says "I'm as good as <insert average to poor PL footballer's name here>" it's a sure sign they've never played competitive football at any sort of decent level. I've seen blokes who had unsuccesful trials at PL clubs run rings round us lesser mortals. The guys who go on to make a living at the highest level are in a different league entirely.
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For the record I agree with this and the above as well.

Saying average, means Premiership standard average. Not a random bloke with addidas shirt taken from the street(Bebe, no offence).
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Completely agree. Whenever a football fans says "I'm as good as <insert average to poor PL footballer's name here>" it's a sure sign they've never played competitive football at any sort of decent level. I've seen blokes who had unsuccesful trials at PL clubs run rings round us lesser mortals. The guys who go on to make a living at the highest level are in a different league entirely.
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I play five a side with some dudes that played with the U21 Irish team and got no further than the bench at some relegation candidates in the Airtricity League. Now that is a pretty average competition in comparison to full internationals and even Championship teams. Yet they absolutely dominate me every week. I may not be the best footballer but I get around and tr my hardest. Still not enough, so anyone that hasn't played legit competitive football cannot claim to be near the standard of Heskey.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Completely agree. Whenever a football fans says "I'm as good as <insert average to poor PL footballer's name here>" it's a sure sign they've never played competitive football at any sort of decent level. I've seen blokes who had unsuccesful trials at PL clubs run rings round us lesser mortals. The guys who go on to make a living at the highest level are in a different league entirely.
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Aye, it is often underestimated how wide the gulf is within the amateur game (5-a-sides/Sunday League through to good amateur teams) then within the professional game (from semi-professional, through average professional and up to elite professional level). I think it's fed largely through ignorance but also from how little time is available on the ball in the professional game and a misconception that because players aren't getting the opportunity to showcase any skillz, they haven't got the ability to do so at a level where more time is available.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Completely agree. Whenever a football fans says "I'm as good as <insert average to poor PL footballer's name here>" it's a sure sign they've never played competitive football at any sort of decent level. I've seen blokes who had unsuccesful trials at PL clubs run rings round us lesser mortals. The guys who go on to make a living at the highest level are in a different league entirely.
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Spot on - it is as always a question of levels and it applies across the board in all sports.

Makes you realise how talented the really top sportsmen are.
 
He has been mediocre to poor so far. Disappointed with this signing more than Carroll or Henderson who at least have many years to prove themselves.
 
Dumbstar said:
He has been mediocre to poor so far. Disappointed with this signing more than Carroll or Henderson who at least have many years to prove themselves.
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Carroll is a magnificent flop so far. Henderson has played one or two decent matches, but as I said when you signed him, he's a bit of a nothing player nowhere near worthy of his price tag.

Downing has been suprisingly poor, thought he would do decently enough for you lot.

Adam has been okayish, even though he leaves massive gaps in the midfield whenever he plays, does the defensive side of the job poorly and is a bit too fond of the pot shot. A decent PL midfielder, for his offensive contribution.

Enrique has been the best left back in the league.

Suarez is a very good player with a horrific goal record for his supposed class.


All in all, I'd say Carroll is the biggest flop, followed by Henderson and then Downing.
 
Does anyone know how his stats compare to Young this season?
 
20le_Solskjaer said:
Almost half the season gone, 0 goals, 0 assists
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:lol:

And I think the honeymoons over too expect Scousers to turn on him soon.

To be fair you can't blame him for going there, blame whoever decided to buy him for 18million (not that they will)
 
marjen said:
Carroll is a magnificent flop so far. Henderson has played one or two decent matches, but as I said when you signed him, he's a bit of a nothing player nowhere near worthy of his price tag.

Downing has been suprisingly poor, thought he would do decently enough for you lot.

Adam has been okayish, even though he leaves massive gaps in the midfield whenever he plays, does the defensive side of the job poorly and is a bit too fond of the pot shot. A decent PL midfielder, for his offensive contribution.

Enrique has been the best left back in the league.

Suarez is a very good player with a horrific goal record for his supposed class.


All in all, I'd say Carroll is the biggest flop, followed by Henderson and then Downing.
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I'm very dissapointed with Carroll. I got lambasted on here for praising him last year. I accept that a player of his type isn't to everyone's liking but last year he was excellent for Newcastle - looked very strong, gave some top defenders big trouble and looked like he could really be a top player.

For whatever reason it just isn't happening for him. From his performances for Newcastle he clearly has the ability but perhaps he lacks the desire and commitment to really knuckle down and improve.

He looks overweight and understrength - although it doesn't help that Liverpool seem to want to play a style which doesn't suit him. Why you'd do that when you've spent all that money is a mystery.

As for Downing I think he's a decent player who's performed fairly well, in the games I've seen at least. He's not done as well as Young but he's also tailed off after a blistering start.

Was tough for Liverpool this year - People keep syaing Kenny has paid over the odds and he undoubtedly has, but I'm not sure whether he could have bought "better" players given the fact that they're not in the CL and therefore can't attract the really top players. For example, you'd take Mata over Downing any day of the week - but would he really prefer Liverpool over Chelsea and CL football?
 
RedRover said:
I'm very dissapointed with Carroll. I got lambasted on here for praising him last year. I accept that a player of his type isn't to everyone's liking but last year he was excellent for Newcastle - looked very strong, gave some top defenders big trouble and looked like he could really be a top player.

For whatever reason it just isn't happening for him. From his performances for Newcastle he clearly has the ability but perhaps he lacks the desire and commitment to really knuckle down and improve.

He looks overweight and understrength - although it doesn't help that Liverpool seem to want to play a style which doesn't suit him. Why you'd do that when you've spent all that money is a mystery.

As for Downing I think he's a decent player who's performed fairly well, in the games I've seen at least. He's not done as well as Young but he's also tailed off after a blistering start.

Was tough for Liverpool this year - People keep syaing Kenny has paid over the odds and he undoubtedly has, but I'm not sure whether he could have bought "better" players given the fact that they're not in the CL and therefore can't attract the really top players. For example, you'd take Mata over Downing any day of the week - but would he really prefer Liverpool over Chelsea and CL football?
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Thats the key for me and the blame for that solely lies on Dalglishs floor.
 
towcester_red said:
Thats the key for me and the blame for that solely lies on Dalglishs floor.
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All depends on the player in my view - I obviously have no idea if it is the case but if a player is out boozing, eats too much or won't put in the hard yards in training what can a manager do? Obviously managers need to motivate but sometimes they're pissing in the wind.

A player like Carroll needs to be super fit to be at the top of his game. He shouldnt be written off but looks like his attitude needs to change if he's going to turn his career at Liverpool around.

It'd be a big shame if he never fulfils his potential - I personally think he'd do really well at International level, largely because most continental defenders are petrified of players who can put themsleves about while actually being a threat. A player like that could have Rooney running riot.
 
RedRover said:
All depends on the player in my view - I obviously have no idea if it is the case but if a player is out boozing, eats too much or won't put in the hard yards in training what can a manager do? Obviously managers need to motivate but sometimes they're pissing in the wind.

A player like Carroll needs to be super fit to be at the top of his game. He shouldnt be written off but looks like his attitude needs to change if he's going to turn his career at Liverpool around.

It'd be a big shame if he never fulfils his potential - I personally think he'd do really well at International level, largely because most continental defenders are petrified of players who can put themsleves about while actually being a threat. A player like that could have Rooney running riot.
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He plays for Liverpool, couldn't care less if he fulfils his potential or not. Hopefully he doesn't although in his case fulfiling potential would be a premium mid-table player at very best.
 
The thing is he was supposedly bought to put crosses in for Carrol, but Carroll only plays now and again and at the same time Dalglish wants to play it on the ground. It's as if there was very little thought went into how the players they bought would work as a unit.
 
you have to play to Carroll's strengths, which LFC are obviously not. Why they bought him is anyone's guess. Why they bought him for so much, the mind boggles.

He would be a sensation at Everton
 
Oh god, it is true that he has 0 assists :lol:

Stewart Downing Bio, Stats, News - Football / Soccer - - ESPN Soccernet

This is another win for...

moneyball-cover.jpg
 
I hate to bump a transfer thread but this seems to be the active Downing thread.

Here's a laugh...

Liverpool's Kenny Dalglish: Stewart Downing is better than I thought

Kenny Dalglish has defended Stewart Downing, describing him as a better player than he envisaged when paying £20m to sign the England international from Aston Villa, despite the winger's subdued start to his Liverpool career.

Downing has yet to score or create one league goal for Liverpool since his big money move from the Midlands, although he did register his first goal for the club in the FA Cup third-round win over Oldham Athletic, and growing criticism of the 27-year-old's performances has prompted Dalglish to defend his summer signing. The Liverpool manager, who has been offered the Serbian striker Milos Krasic by Juventus, believes Downing is still adjusting to life at a higher-profile club and that it has been unfair to play the former Middlesbrough winger in several positions during his debut season at Anfield.

"Stewart is a better player than I thought he was going to be," the Liverpool manager claimed. "I don't think it has been too comfortable for him either because we have played him in three or four positions, so maybe we need to look at ourselves and say we have to be fair to him as well. He is better than what I thought he was. He is quicker than what I thought he was and he is quicker than Carra [Jamie Carragher] thought he was as well."

Downing was replaced by Andy Carroll during Liverpool's dour goalless draw against Stoke City last weekend as Dalglish persisted with three central defenders against Peter Crouch and withdrew a supply line to the £35m forward. The pair have started only 11 games together for Liverpool this season. Dalglish added: "You have to be patient with every new player who comes in. You have to be patient with the older ones at times as well, like we did with Stevie [Gerrard] coming back. Patience is important but the most important thing is having the ability to play and everyone in our squad has the ability to play."

The woodwork has denied Downing a first league goal for Liverpool on four occasions this season while poor finishing from team-mates also accounts for his lack of assists. Dalglish does admit the £20m midfielder has still to adapt to the transition from Villa Park to Anfield.

"Stewart is a fantastic footballer," he added. "He is an England international, he made a big move in the summer to come here, as a few of them did, and with all due respect to the other clubs that he's been at, it is a massive club. He is going to need a little bit of time to get used to his new surroundings, which is only natural. He's put more crosses in than anybody else according to the stats and it is part of his job to put crosses in. It is another part of his job to put them in somewhere where we are going to score goals and it is another job for the team to get in there and put them in the back of the net."

Liverpool face Bolton Wanderers at the Reebok on Saturday evening and Dalglish has questioned the wisdom of Bolton's decision to sell Gary Cahill for £7m to Chelsea as they fight to stay in the Premier League. The Liverpool manager said: "It has been difficult for Owen Coyle and Bolton this year but I am sure they will buckle down and get themselves out of the mire. Although financially it might have been a good deal for Gary Cahill, I don't know whether it was the best one as a football decision for Owen, unless he has got someone lined up to replace him."

By the same token Dalglish does accept that Cahill's contractual position, with only six months remaining on his deal at the Reebok before he moved to Stamford Bridge, left Bolton in an unenviable situation. He added: "It is pretty obvious that the players are the ones with the strength nowadays, far more so than the clubs, but then there was a long time when the clubs had all the strength. I think it would be better for everyone if it was shared out more evenly.

"Everybody knows what the position is though if a player is running out of contract and if you cannot afford to keep them, you cannot afford to keep them. I think you would be more in the wrong if you tried to keep a player who you couldn't afford. A football club does not belong to any one individual, it is for the people and the community and no one wants to see it go to the wall. If you dig your heels in and don't allow a player to leave until his contract is up then, for me, I don't think that's the right approach."
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Well Dalglish is right. Suarez was always going to be good. He had a history of being a diver, cheat and biter. So expecting him to use racist language was never going to be a problem.

But Downing turning out to be a woman beater has turned out to be an added boon for the Klanfield manager. We all thought it was a lot of money but he's fit right in perfectly.

Dalglish has always been a great spotter of talents.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Well Dalglish is right. Suarez was always going to be good. He had a history of being a diver, cheat and biter. So expecting him to use racist language was never going to be a problem.

But Downing turning out to be a woman beater has turned out to be an added boon for the Klanfield manager. We all thought it was a lot of money but he's fit right in perfectly.

Dalglish has always been a great spotter of talents.
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That's just it, it's all about blending the personalities for a good team spirit. A dash of wife-beater here, a toilet seat thief there, and an incorrigible racist just for good measure.
 
RedRover said:
All depends on the player in my view - I obviously have no idea if it is the case but if a player is out boozing, eats too much or won't put in the hard yards in training what can a manager do? Obviously managers need to motivate but sometimes they're pissing in the wind.
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Perhaps that's where it pays to have a manager fully in control of transfer strategy. For a start you know the manager picked the player with a specific role in mind, plus it means the manager can build the squad based on his own mental characteristics and expectations. Don't Liverpool have Comolli picking signings? It could be that he fecked up by not looking into Carroll's mental attributes - he'd already been in trouble out in Newcastle city centre and was also known as a bona fide Geordie. Easy to say in hindsight, but there were warning signs there that Carroll might not adapt.
 
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