Feel sorry for Donny. Just going to not be given a fair chance under Ole. Hope he leaves and goes on to have a great career elsewhere.
Donny Van De Beek / LOAN to Everton
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Loan works then cause if Ole is gone then we keep Donny
You think Ole would sanction his loan?
The only way he leaves is if another club comes in to buy him or if Donny hands in a transfer request which Im afraid I think he will do this coming window. He just looks fed up with being here now.
I mean sure, I think VDB should be getting more games in a midfield 3.
In a double pivot where we don't even play Matic - nah, personally I've seen his best runs and performances where he is getting in to spaces that have completely bypassed the attention of the opposition.
In a deep double pivot, he still does this but toned down as part of his natural game and yet, it can bypass the attention of his own team mates - especially when really our only Central Defensive Midfielder who can control things to a degree by himself is again, Matic. This is why Pogba seen with Matic and not so much with McTominay or Fred, there is no control as a CDM by those 2 who are more CM. Bruno can be further forward than the CF - so a double pivot doesn't drop in to a midfield 3 alot.
I've seen it when VDB has played in a double pivot in the FA cup performances and all. Its why I prefer him further up the pitch, or in a midfield 3 so he can get further up the pitch as he played with Ajax alongside De Jong & Schone.
Anyways, football is viewed in different ways. All those runs and goals vs Madrid - I don't see that as happening whilst playing deep in a double pivot; especially when your partner is not a proper CDM (Fred, McTominay).
@VanDeBank
Can't make it up!
I don't blame him for wanting to leave and others will follow him. It's crazy that a manger don't know how to use the likes of Donny and Sancho, and won't drop the ones who are not showing.
This is the biggest downfall for a manager, he has got to show who is boss and if he can't do this, then he is nailing his own coffin.
This is the biggest downfall for a manager, he has got to show who is boss and if he can't do this, then he is nailing his own coffin.
They are too technical for the manager to coach and put them in the team.
The current manager wants players that have energy and can "run". I say that because we sit bottom on most defensive metrics.
Sancho and VDB are 2/3 levels above every player that starts technically, they have the ability to keep the ball and play one touch passing.
We instead opt for McFred, Rashford, and the like who are very direct players that cant really look after the ball in tight areas.
Donny has played a total of 1610 minutes for this club, in a season and a half, that's not even 18 full games. I would understand somehow if we had some quality CMs playing on a consistent level, instead we have a trio of Fred, McT and Matic, who I really can't figure out which is more appalling. The guy should leave for his own sake, and you bet your arse that he will turn out to be better than any of the three midfielder I mentioned.
Yeah he has to at this point. It’s either lose him for a lesser fee since he’s unproven for two years
We are doomed.
He will start against Watford. I feel it in my waters. It will happen. Visualise it.
No one is straight up buying him after not playing for 1,5y for remotely close to the original fee.
Either we'll accept 25m euros top or it'll be a loan (with option to buy or certain conditions met).
I personally hope we can keep at least one of Lingard or VDB on board.
Either we'll accept 25m euros top or it'll be a loan (with option to buy or certain conditions met).
I personally hope we can keep at least one of Lingard or VDB on board.
It's bizarre that we didn't loan him out and sign someone else, even a reasonable punt, to fill in the gap in the squad. A player who is now 24 to go through 1.5 years barely playing is very strange, and neither does us any good nor the player himself.
Who was available to buy as a replacement though!?
There was no one.
Pointless sending him on loan if we cannot get a replacement, look at what's happening with Saul at Chelsea for example, there were no options available and had we gone for Saul who was an option, we would be in the same boat!!
There is zero need to get a replacement for someone who never plays.
I hope DVB outlasts Ole and has a proper run of things here, he deserves a chance at least.
So outside of the 14/15 players we don't need anyone of any real quality then?
Squad depth is important, so surely having someone like VDB around in the squad is good, especially considering his stock in here is so high?
He could be Zidane, Keane and Kaka all rolled into one, but if Ole won't play him, then we don't need to replace him if he goes out on loan.
Hes a squad player.
Has he shown anything close to Zidane, Keane or kakas levels in any time he has been here?! No,
Its good to have squad depth however. We could replace him with a youth prospect, however come the time whereby he will be needed, thats when we need the strength in depth.
Mctominay is a doubt for the full game this weekend, Pogba is unavailable, Fred i assume will be back late in the week from international duty, this could be the week that he actually gets a run out, which is why squad depth is imperative,
Well he's a squad player who doesnt actually play. It doesnt seem to matter how badly that McFred play but he is not given a chance. He also needs a structure to fit into, which we clearly dont have. This isnt about 'patterns of play' but simple points about team shape. We dont have one. We never dominate the ball or possession, even though we should have the players to do this. Ole refused to sell or loan him, but then wont play him. And yet we are told that Ole has 'sorted' recruitment.
If we go by the past a 10% fit Fred or McTominay will play ahead of Donny. Also, look at last few international breaks, its Matic who starts, I won't be surprised if Matic starts against Watford and Donny comes on at 87 mins.
We didn't need cover for the no 10 position position. We have Lingard and Pogba or we could play without a no 10 if Bruno were unavailable (which he rarely is). If by a replacement we mean an actual DM, then that's obvious, but Ole rates McFred to the point he'd rather spent 150m on attacking players.
Our posession stats are actually quite good this season, about the same as last seasons near enough. So I don't think its about dominating the ball, its probably more that Van De Beek is a player that often wants to play a simple pass in congested areas, then look to find the space to recieve the ball again.
We just don't play that way very often.
Bailly is a squad player, he plays when needed, Mata is a squad player, he plays when needed, Lingards a squad player, he plays when needed.
Thats what squad players are! They are there to give strength in depth to a squad.
Just ask Saul at Chelsea, or Ake/Zinchenko at City, or Origi/Minamoto at Liverpool...
VDB has often said he sees himself as a number 6 moving forward. I think personally he was brought in as a replacement for Pogba as it was looking likely back then that he may be on the verge of leaving.
It wasn't so much about needing cover in a particular position, rather about needing depth in midfield in general, as Matic cannot play multiple games in a week, and an injury to Fred or McT in a congested fixture list would lead to issues with a lack of numbers.
Yeah we would much rather have players standing still after they pass
I just think his natural game is very dangerous for a double pivot.
He needs to play in a midfield 3.
He can say whatever he wants, but his original position and the one he's had most success with for Ajax and the NT is as a 10 or 8.
He's trying to reinvent himself to get game time.
If cover in a more defensive midfield role was an issue, there were better options available than splashing 40m for VDB.
and I speak of "cover", because Ole clearly rates McFred or he would have prioritized a DM instead of buying Sancho for the bench (or getting a DM instead of a Bruno backup)
I agree with you that he was likely bought with Pogba leaving in mind. Ole must've written off Pereira and Lingard (it's weird now to speak of both in the same sentence), so he wanted an CAM.
You're basically criticizing him for chasing the ball 0-2 down with 10 minutes to go. Should he have just given up like the rest of the team?
Making runs forward can be dangerous in any midfield setup, it isnt bound to the (midfield) formation. Its about positional/tactical awareness and knowing whén you can make runs. You can play with 4 midfield but it can still be very dangerous to move out of position if a #4 of both wingbacks are in front of you at the moment. If you are aligned as a team, the players are aware of eachother and the team is prepared well tactically you can make runs forward regardless of any position you play in, because others will cover.
Players should preferably always move after they have passed a ball.
If our sqaud players aren't needed now though then when exactly will they be needed?
Saul at Chelsea is being benched by in-form players such as Kante, Jorghinio, and Kovacic.
Ake/Zinchenko are being kept out by the likes of Cancelo, Dias and Laporte.
Origi and Minamino are behind Salah, Mane, Firminio and Jota.
Add to that, their teams overall are generally playing well and getting good results.
Whereas...
Van De Beek is being kept out by a seriously out of form Fred and McTominay, playing in a team that's getting embarrassed every week, that's the key difference here.
If the likes of Fred, McTominay, Maguire, De Gea and Shaw where all playing well or at least playing within a system that was producing results then there wouldn't be so much uproar about the likes of Donny, Henderson, Lingard, Sancho, Baily or Tellers not getting on.
We end up overplaying players who clearly need a rest and not keeping our squad players sharp enough.
I love Ole but his squad management is the worst I've ever seen and that's what will ultimately end up costing him his job.
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Squad player of 35 million. If you want a player in case your 4 other cms are unavailable you use your academy, you don't spend millions for a bench warmer.
Like Chelsea, City, Liverpool etc??
One thing United do right is bring the youth through.
Arguably City haven't exactly set the world alight this season so far...
Barkley and Loftus Cheek have more game time than Saul....
It happens, sometimes players just don't feature much.
I agree with you on Oles squad management, but this is another reason why you need strength in depth. Ole hasn't trusted VDB much it seems, probably because he sees his role more as a replacement for Bruno, rather than the likes of McT and Fred.
And alas for poor Donny, a half fit Bruno is still better than a fully fit Donny judging by what he has shown so far.
Like Chelsea, City, Liverpool etc??
One thing United do right is bring the youth through.
We are miles off these teams, so can't see the argument here. Playing Greenwood doesnt make it better that our manager has a 35 million midfielder as a bench warmer and his 5th choice, even though it was his signing.
Basically. Van De Beek saying he could play no.6 in that interview he did is like when you lie on your CV that you’re ‘proficient with Microsoft office’ when all you do is Google any time you need to do something excel related
I feel called out….
Scotty will get up off the sick bed to play his part in saving his beloved Ole's job
And he will.
I will continue to day dream - we sell Martial &and buy a DM in January. DM and DVB are new midfield.. If we need to give them a breather, play Matic for 50 minutes (no more) and McT.
Play a deeper defensive line and hit teams on counter for first 60 minutes of the game. Then turn on the screws in the last half hour.
Drop Shaw for a bit and play Telles. Bring Tuanzebe back and play him Varane. Play Samcho and Rash as forwards and R7 as nine. Mason, Amad and Elanga are the change ups.
Play a deeper defensive line and hit teams on counter for first 60 minutes of the game. Then turn on the screws in the last half hour.
Drop Shaw for a bit and play Telles. Bring Tuanzebe back and play him Varane. Play Samcho and Rash as forwards and R7 as nine. Mason, Amad and Elanga are the change ups.
I'm not sure he's as good as some people are making him out to be now, it does seem a bit like the grass is greener effect, but even if he is that good, you can very easily make the argument that a good backup that's deeply unhappy in his position does more harm to team morale than he adds in team strength. You can see van de Beek is unhappy and he's an unnecessary problem for Ole in a team that's struggling for morale and confidence.
harsh but fair.Nah, Scholes did that frequently playing in this famed "double pivot". Having both players in that position sit back and occupy the space at all times is one way of doing things. When we put van de Beek in there we didn't want him to do that, just like we didn't want Scholes to play like that. When we did, we just played Butt.
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