I was excited when we signed him, but it’s unfortunate he proved not tactically good enough to understand the concept and priorities of Oleball. Hope he does better in a team that plays less sophisticated football than us.
Donny Van De Beek / LOAN to Everton
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It's not that Scholes did it - it's that would you feel good if Scholes was making runs when his defensive partner was Fred OR Mctominay?
If we had a proper CDM then sure - play Pogba next to him or play VDB next to him & let them do there thing because there is protection next to them;
But VDB is an attacking minded CM in my eyes - and he is quite attacking minded to be playing in a double pivot when the other partner is arguably not a CDM at all and the only one we have is extremely old.
VDB at this point is one of those mystical players that gets much better on the bench. Wonderful technique, the Ajax school, all that stuff.
He's been poor. He's not had enough chances but he's still been fairly abject for a Man Utd footballer, let's call a spade a spade. I don't understand the constant pity and fawning over him, it hardly seems worth it. It's curious for sure but probably just a failed transfer and nothing more than that.
He's been poor. He's not had enough chances but he's still been fairly abject for a Man Utd footballer, let's call a spade a spade. I don't understand the constant pity and fawning over him, it hardly seems worth it. It's curious for sure but probably just a failed transfer and nothing more than that.
I don't think we ever had a proper CDM, to be honest. Sir Alex didn't like them much. Not someone like Rice who just sits there and breaks things up. Keane and Carrick were good at different aspects of that but they weren't as hyper-focused on the defensive game. I was all good when we played a midfield duo of e.g. Fletcher and Giggs against Chelsea, and Fletcher is much like McTominay to me. We never had those fixed rules under Sir Alex and I don't think we need to have them under Ole because our game isn't about systems but individuals. In a more systematic approach, yeah I agree van De Beek would stand out a bit.
I just don't think it's fair to criticise him for doing something the coaching staff know he's going to do when he's sent out there. He isn't asked to play that conservative role.
Yes, I agree, Donny is way too unsophisticated for our style of football.
Tactically and Ole in one sentence should always include the word inept
You had me in the first half
I had never watched VdB prior to him joining but the whole signing shows something very wrong with our strategy imo.
That's a pretty considerable outlay for a squad player anyway but then to find out he's too slow, that is something that would have been measurable beforehand.
I'm fairly sure he'll be off ASAP now so we'll never find out but it seems like the recruitment is very flawed and both parties are losers overall, club and player so it's bound to impede our transfer policy in some way I would have thought.
The agents don't lose much from it though.
That's a pretty considerable outlay for a squad player anyway but then to find out he's too slow, that is something that would have been measurable beforehand.
I'm fairly sure he'll be off ASAP now so we'll never find out but it seems like the recruitment is very flawed and both parties are losers overall, club and player so it's bound to impede our transfer policy in some way I would have thought.
The agents don't lose much from it though.
His problem is thesame problem Sancho is having. They are players that rely on movement and quick passes, they're both good against pressing teams. You can see from the small glimpsed we've had of them together, they understand each other. The problem is the rest of the team is not playing like that, we're too static and some players just don't make those smart runs for them to thrive.
I understand this idea seems pretty common. But in my eyes it's not just about being a "system" player. We should all understand it is ideal to be within your perfect position, surrounded by complimentary partners and the ideal style of football. We'd like to see that for most of the players as it would mean we have something more cohesive. But that's not where we are, we're a struggling team and the valuable players are the ones that perform.
But I think you also have to show yourself. Show why you're at Man Utd. If you're supposedly a great technician, a crisp short passer - well at least get on the ball more, try to effect the game. It's all been a bit limp so far, in his limited showings. A lot of turning back, nearly avoiding possession etc. Obviously there is an asterisk against that in that the sample size is surprisingly small but I'm not shedding any tears for him from what I've seen.
Yes, both of them need to adapt and transform their game if they want to make it here. They were both playing some top football before joining, so hopefully we get to see that playing for United.
I will never get this perspective.
- The player showed that he was more than capable of playing at a European and CL level while at Ajax.
- The player was/is at an age that further development could and should be expected.
- The player was in his national team at a very young age and showed no signs of being out of his depth.
He has never been given so much as consecutive 90 minutes during his time here and in his unfathomably limited playing time he has neither looked off the pace nor has he stood out as being particularly unsuited or incapable of adapting.
No player in those circumstances could be labeled as poor and while he may not have had the quality ultimately- to say that based on what you have seen thus far is mind boggling. It’s like deciding a case before the evidence has even been presented.
So much media bluster about this lad not playing. Weird given he's been largely shite in the chances he was given ( and Man Utd fans are desperate to see anything good from him, so every backwards pass gets praised like he is a tactical savant). He should probably be given more of a chance all the same. Give him a run of games and let Pogba play second fiddle a while.
Playing Devils advocate here though, isn't the instant success / failure measure a problem for modern day football? It takes players time to get rythm with each other on the pitch. Giving him 10 mins here when we are chasing the game or 5 mins when we are dominating a game is never going to do him any favours.
Our midfield is clearly an achilies heel. Why not give him the opportunity of 6-8 games, build up some rythm, if after that he's not performing, he can be written off as a talented player buy just not for this team / manager. Genuinely think he's not been given a fair crack of the whip.
I wonder if Arsenal or barcelona can loan him for the rest of the season.
Hi situation has been abject, his performances haven't been. If you want abject performances look no further than McTominay and Fred. With the emphasis on McTominay who never gets anywhere near the amount of criticism as he should get. His performances have been abject to the point of being invisible. You can say Donny hasn't exactly shone when given the chance. But how can he, when he's given so few chances to prove himself and even when he does (Like West Ham) he knows he'll be back on the bench?
Fred and McTominay have been largely shite this season, yet they've been given game after game That's the main issue Donny fans have. Just give him a fair chance and let's see if he can prove himself. I don't see how anyone can give a fair opinion on Donny when none of us have actually had a chance to see him properly in this team. All the people who criticize him have to go on is blind faith in Ole. And when it comes to having faith in Ole, that is most definitely blind.
It's semantics, if they haven't been abject then they have been non-descript. Which at this level is as good as being pretty useless. You have to impact football matches in some way, even if it is understated. He hasn't been. And yes his chances have been a bit crap but you still have to call what you see, not just harp on about Ajax and being a Dutch graduate and all this vague stuff.
I always see this thing about McFred getting trotted out. Very well, but it doesn't make VDBs performances good, either.
It is however at a stage where I would like to see him get a go just to end this discussion once and for all, I just can't say I'm as fussed as many seem to be from what I've seen.
Yes, he showed he was capable of playing for Ajax. That's presumably why we bought him. Sadly, this isn't a measure of a Man Utd player, it's just a nice little fact.
"Not being out of his depth" for Holland is no measuring stick either. International football is full of slow, meandering games of football. If he can knock it around a bit in those matches then I would expect that. I don't think he has particularly excelled for Holland so I don't know where you're going with this point.
The evidence has been presented. It might not be the best evidence, it is certainly incomplete and I'd definitely like to see a bit more. The problem is you don't want to look at the evidence because if you were to assess it completely straightforwardly without excuse making you'd have to resort to calling it what it is..a fairly non descript set of minutes. That's what I mean that he's got better on the bench, simply because McFred have been poor. There's been nothing within his showings that have suggested he's a better option but he's like the life jacket that's being clung to..
No chance now considering you're probably a top 4 rival for us this season. Though it would be poetic and Ole would 100% deserve it if Donny helped you beat us to a top 4 place.
I think the sheer negativity of this season is causing some to pin their hopes on Donny being some revelation in midfield for us.
The desperation for him to play grows with every passing day, like we have a world beater being held back.
The desperation for him to play grows with every passing day, like we have a world beater being held back.
Sounds like you would be happy to see that
This. It's mind boggling to say he's not up to the task.
This.For Ole apologists-I want you to google and watch Pablo Fornal's run-under pressure from Van Dijk and company- for the second West Ham goal against Liverpool.That is the standard of sheer guts-and-blood hard work and determination(forget the tactical systems)that we should have in our midfield.Because I have watched them,am sure Ole's pets Mcfred,Pogba and old man Matic cannot make such a run and assist.I don't know if Donny can because he has never been given the chance.Mcfred is the poorest midfield combo in the top 12 teams of the premier league.Fact.And I have seen the so-called stats-especially for Fred-so no one should trot them out.
In my mind he is a great player, but totally overlooked as Ole thinks the Brazilian is better just because he is a Brazialian. Donny hasn’t had anytime to prove himself and with his age and his skills against Real Madrid when at Ajax he was way better than Fred
VDB has been poor when seen in a Utd shirt and I also do not believe a manager would not give the kid a few chances if he was working his bollox off in training (unless he wants the sack.)
VBD for me just looks like one of those players that isn't suited to the PL and struggles to keep up with the pace. Put him in Italy and he'll probably be a top player. Over here, based on what we've actually seen from him in a Utd shirt, he isn't justifying a selection or even doing enough to make another English club from thinking he is worth a punt.
VBD for me just looks like one of those players that isn't suited to the PL and struggles to keep up with the pace. Put him in Italy and he'll probably be a top player. Over here, based on what we've actually seen from him in a Utd shirt, he isn't justifying a selection or even doing enough to make another English club from thinking he is worth a punt.
Any player that is sat on the bench for extended periods will look poor.By most accounts the other players have been impressed by VDB's training and are surprised that ole has decided not to play him.Mcfred should never be in the first eleven of a top ten EPL.They have been given all the chances and they look worse with each match.They cannot pass,tackle or score.They look busy on the pitch(especially fred),but they are easily overun by even midtable teams.I even believe they contribute to the defence being poor due to their substandard ball-retention skills.But Ole 'trusts' this mcfred combo.I also trust them to get him sacked.
I dont think anybody expects him to be a revliation. I just don't forsee him being any worse. He deserves a chance of a proper run in the side before being dumped abroad and reignite his career.
The few times we've seen him in CM he's performed absolutely fine, if anything he gives us a much different option to the ones we have already. He has the best/most consistent short passing range of all our midfielders IMO.
The issue is Ole just doesn't care about retaining possession. What he looks for in a midfielder is old school off the ball abilities.
I don't think many think he will be a revelation. At the moment our midfield cannot pass a football, we are being dominated and we have 0 control.
What we know Donny can do is keep the football, pass to a team mate and keep it simple.
We are frustrated that McFred and Bruno get to start and make mistake after mistake and Donny doesn't get a chance to play.
Yeah, like most, I'd like to see more of him so we can gauge what he has to offer.
I'd say his appearances have been ok, pretty average if were being honest, but not bad (and certainly no worse than the rest of the midfield this season), but granted they are such a small sample size that we cannot let him go at this point. Up until this season where almost every player to a man has been woeful I think I understood why Ole couldn't give him many minutes, but the midfield has been so poor this season that he would have expected to get more minutes for sure. Ole just doesn't trust him to improve the issues we have in the pivot and for obvious reasons won't drop Bruno.
I don't think the club want to let him go, particularly because any new manager may well want to utilise a player with Donny's abilities. I think we will see him this weekend, hopefully he makes an impact and offers us something different, for what it's worth I like him and his attitude to try and make a difference when he is on the pitch.
I've suggested it a few times but I would like to see us push Bruno up as a false 9 off Ronaldo and player a flatter midfield 3 to include Donny. Provided the fullbacks can give us some width. Then sub on the likes of Rashford/Sancho/Greenwood/Cavani where required. We are desperate for some control in midfield and structure to our play and the current system isn't working for us/Ole.
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Ten Haag would play him and get the best out of him too.
And how many games have you seen him in a united shirt ?
This- McFred can't make a 2 yard pass and we need someone who can keep things moving. A Matic, Donny , Fred combination would have given the much needed support for the forwards. Can't believe Ole hasn't tried that at all.
Exactly, when I watch these play, McTominay and Fred get into poor receiving positions as well. The limited times I watch Donny play, he will ask for the ball return it and move to another position or make space for a pass to someone else.
Its all about movement, creating space and passing lanes.
He does not even have to be a world beater.There is no way he can be worse than mcfred.
Donny has had his cornflakes this morning!!
This is usually the sort of situation where he comes on and makes minimal impact (although he does have more time) so maybe this can be a bit of a sea change that gets him a chance. Then we can really see where we're at with him.
This is usually the sort of situation where he comes on and makes minimal impact (although he does have more time) so maybe this can be a bit of a sea change that gets him a chance. Then we can really see where we're at with him.
Superior to McTominay in every department.
Model professional
Is the correct answer.
He’s been quality since he came on.
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