I sometimes start to think this fanbase deserves McFred.
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As you say he wanted to go on loan in January but Ole convinced him to stay as he will get chances, but so far they have barely come.
If he doesn't get a proper chance before Jan he should definitely look for a loan and maybe a transfer in the summer.
People can say he needs to be patient but that's up to him. If Ole won't play him then let him leave and buy somebody else for the bench.
Wow, that’s even better than I remember him. Really grew into the game and was playing forward passes all the time. How were not playing this guy is an absolute mystery to me when Fred and McTominay are playing so poorly right now. And he is a smart footballer coached the Ajax way, I’m sure he can adapt to play deep, take the ball off defence calmly and assuredly and play progressive passes to the forward up front to do the damage. How ole refuses to see this and not give him his shot is a travesty and just depressing. Give him a run of games and let’s see what he can do!
Sometimes it needs to be. But it’s clear he grows into the game and then most are forward and some really good through the lines. The ball to Greenwood is exquisite. But it’s his calmness under pressure that stands out as well. Everything we need right now. Baffling.
This.
Donny has started 4 f**king games. That is a joke. 'd love to know how many minutes he has been on the pitch with our so called strongest 11. Feels like we mostly see him in the Carabao Cup trying to get something going with Mata, Martial, Lingard and Matic and a ropey B tech defence behind him. And people judge him off this. But then we hear about how the likes of Fred, Rashford, Martial, Lingard etc, even Shaw, need a run of games to get their form up. That is something Donny has literally never been given. And when you see what is keeping him out of the team, the mind truly boggles.
The unwillingness from Ole to give him a run of games to try to become the link player that we need is a big mark on his copy book for me. That he lies to the man and tells him he will play him then so that he doesn't leave is even worse. Because he has pissed away £40M that could have bought someone he would f**king play. No excuse for it. It's appalling management.
Press conference today:
"Donny was ready to come on, as all players should be. I've been a sub more than anyone in this club probably - I must have a record appearance as a sub - and you have to be ready all the time. I've been not very happy a few times but that is the decision the manager makes. "
It seems I wasn't far wrong.
Did Ole sign him or did the club hierarchy do it. Same with Pogba in that i think Ole would rather have been shot of him once he came out saying he wanted to leave and all that.
I love Ole but one gripe I have about him is that he is so blatantly obvious about playing his favourites no matter what form they are in. Let’s be frank, playing McFred in the big games got him the results he so badly needed last year to keep him in the job. It’s fair for a manager to have his favourites or trusted players but when everyone can see that McFred are not playing well this season so far, the treatment of DVB is just curious to say the least. It’s a pity that this didn’t work out but DVB should go and search for regulator football elsewhere.
I'm starting to turn for Donnie. I still don't think he's a number 6 but I think at this point i'd have him start over McT if we're doing a double pivot. He's a very good and quick passer and we need more of those in the starting 11.
Wow, actual flowing football, who'd have thought it? Donny completes more passes than McTominay does in a whole game, in the time it takes McTominay to do one of his famous foot rolls. It's just depressing that Ole doesn't see this. What has Donny done to him?
Donny's also played more minutes than Bailly. I think what this 'Donny-cult' is on about is how his minutes this season (145) compare to other players in the middle of the park, most glaringly Fred's (524) and McTominay's (345). Jesse (136) has been effective as an impact sub (ignoring YB) and has done well to get in front of Martial (188) but is competing with Bruno (715), Greenwood (634), and Sancho (403). Maybe on form he gets on ahead of Sancho but surely no one else.
I never said that Donny was/can be as good as them. I said thats what us, the fans, WOULD be saying. There is a stark difference between the two. I’m speaking on the differences in the narratives that would have arised had we still been under Jose.
Also, he was good against WH. Better than what we have been putting out, and this is without 1000 starts to prove himself. Let this kid get some rhythm and confidence.
So is the current Utd team playing the Utd way and do McFred play Utd way.
For a talented player like DVB, it is an incredibly tough situation. He's not the type of player that you can throw on for 10 min and expect him to just crush it. There are definitely some players built like that, they come on and have an energy or even in some cases a role such as just being ultra defensive and closing everything off.
What constitutes a good performance for a player like DVB would judging him on his more attacking qualities, how many chances did he create or goals scored. For a a defensive player who can run hard, tackle etc, it's a lot easier to get noticed. A player like DVB really needs consecutive games to build a rhythm to show their worth. Maybe if he ever got the patience shown to Sancho, he might actually get a chance to stake a spot.
What constitutes a good performance for a player like DVB would judging him on his more attacking qualities, how many chances did he create or goals scored. For a a defensive player who can run hard, tackle etc, it's a lot easier to get noticed. A player like DVB really needs consecutive games to build a rhythm to show their worth. Maybe if he ever got the patience shown to Sancho, he might actually get a chance to stake a spot.
This 100%. System player.
Ole is ruining Sancho too. Sancho is not going to be the player for the current system, he's not built for it.
In a midfield that's screaming out for quality, a stubborn and desperate Ole keeps shoving this failed McFred experiment down our throats. I'm hoping Scott and Fred do well and have given up all hope of Donny ever getting a chance here. I will always love Ole but it's sad to watch him digging his own grave while covering for these inept grifters who own our team.
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I just want him to play so people stop bitching about him not playing. The way it is going his West Ham performance will assume mythical proportions in the next couple of weeks, a masterlcass for the ages.
Its more a question of why we are playing two midfielders in McFred who bring the exact same thing to the table, and ignoring VDB who may not be as energetic but is able to offer greater balance and progression up the pitch. He may not be as good as Matic but its a moot point, because Matic has one foot in retirement now.He doesnt have the energy/ball winning of McT/Fred, not a better DLP than Matic, nor more creative than Bruno/Pogba. But lets not go into whether he is better than them all.
What's more interesting to me is people worrying about his career etc over Man Utd. Lets be honest here, VdB has basically replaced Pereira in the squad. If VdB was sold, it would probably be Pereira there instead of him.
I'd rather have VdB as a squad player. Not every player has an equal role in the squad, people need to understand this. Imagine someone saying "Why isnt Wes Brown playing more, he really should move to another club". Why would you sell your squad players? He gets paid to perform when required for us, he's not a starter. First time I've seen players worrying about a bench player's career, I couldnt care less
He was also partially at fault for not marking his man during the West Ham goal. Yes it took a deflection right to the player, but when he's your midfield player and you're not anywhere near him as the only player in the box, you need to be much more responsible. And while I appreciate his fire and desire to want to play, Ole made the right subs against Villareal, again, and it directly influenced the win. His little tantrum was missed guided.
VDB does need to play a little more often against teams who are more cultured. It'll be interesting to see if United persist with the midfield triangle they did against Villareal or the midfield diamond they've utilized against Everton a couple times before. It would be interesting to see VDB play as an 8 near Sancho or whoever is the left forward, rather than Pogba.
Fred is the harrier and covers so much ground. One thing Fred does is he doesn't hide. He's always in the mix and always trying, even if he's having some dodgy matches. But I agree that VDB needs to be considered more as the other player in central midfield. McTominay had a good goal return last year, so he's much more involved than Fred going forward. But he hides in central midfield too often, especially if he's the ball carrier. However, technical ability and passing on the right side of United between McTominay and AWB is sub-standard, especially against teams who are sitting back more and organized in defense, or there's tighter spaces to play through.
I'm a fan of VDB at ajax.
However, I'm starting to feel sure that he may not be that great at other clubs either.
However, I'm starting to feel sure that he may not be that great at other clubs either.
So far as the bolded goes you can certainly call it a failed experiment however the stats just don't back that up. When we play with McFred we score more, concede less and over the past two seasons if you compare games with McFred to games where they don't play together our results are significantly worse without them. I do think Ole wants to change the system to not play the double pivot but every time he does the whole team shits the bed as our forwards do not track back or press enough to help out defensively and out back 4 cannot cope without midfield help. I do believe Ole was hoping the introduction of Varane would shore things up more at the back and free us from the need for two defensive players in the middle but the early signs are he has not made any difference and we still look incredibly vulnerable whenever McFred are not on the field.
It's entirely down to Pogba being unbenchable until he resigns. Glazers won't have losing the asset on a free.
We get McFred with Pogba LF or Pogba in midfield to give Sancho minutes (let alone once Rashford is back...).
Pogba is the misfit but we won't bench him and so long as that is the case there's no room for VdB getting on the pitch much at all. With everyone slicing through our midfield, when we finally sub him off it's bound to be for Matic, not VdB.
Ole is denying Donny his Ballon D’or. He should be arrested for crimes against football.
Ole wants pace all over the pitch. It’s as simple as that. The likes of Mata, Matic and Donny were never going to be mainstays in his team. He can’t possibly make it any more obvious.
I used to pull my hair watching low block teams defend with ease against the likes of Greenwood, Martial, and Rashford when these three have no space to run into and exploit, while Mata, who is much more suited to play against that type of team wouldn’t even be subbed on for 15-20 minutes.
He values a certain type of player and wants to play a certain type of way, VdB doesn’t fit into that. He’s the manager, and will be judged on the results.
It’s a baffling transfer though, that’s for sure.
I used to pull my hair watching low block teams defend with ease against the likes of Greenwood, Martial, and Rashford when these three have no space to run into and exploit, while Mata, who is much more suited to play against that type of team wouldn’t even be subbed on for 15-20 minutes.
He values a certain type of player and wants to play a certain type of way, VdB doesn’t fit into that. He’s the manager, and will be judged on the results.
It’s a baffling transfer though, that’s for sure.
AKA Ole doesn't know how to construct a cohesive midfield that doesn't get swamped unless he plays two holding midfielders, whether it's Barcelona or Bradford.
Yeah, the only difference is Sancho is 100% Ole's signing, so he's going to get the chances to prove himself (at least in Ole's "system").
Sancho is not going to be the player for the current system, he's not built for it.
Ole is ruining Sancho after a handful of games? Even if Sancho performs better in another system he should be playing much better than he currently is.
Sancho is not going to be the player for the current system, he's not built for it.
He’ll be very good for us I have no doubt.
Ole is ruining him. Give it a fecking rest.
The reality is, VDB can't play in a midfield with Pogba because he's not good enough defensively and he's nowhere near good enough to play in place of either Bruno or Pogba as they are far superior players to him and we rely on them for almost all of our creativity. Fred makes mistakes but he's by far the best of our midfielders from a defensive standpoint. None of our other midfielders press enough (though Pogba has improved in this area this season) and nobody else in the midfield is able to win tackles consistently. Fred's passing on the ball isn't very good and he pretty much always makes at least 1 horror pass every game. My biggest issue with him is that he doesn't really come deeper to receive the ball or make himself available to receive the ball. McTominay is also terrible at this. That's the one area where I do think VDB could help us as he is good at coming deep to receive the ball and to link up our defence to our attack (even though his actual creativity isn't at the level of Bruno or Pogba). Ultimately, I would prefer us to use Fred and VDB to Fred and McTominay but any other combination, he's just not good enough to be a starter imo. If we play Fred and VDB, we can only play 3 more of Ronaldo, Greenwood, Cavani, Bruno, Rashford, Sancho, Pogba, or Lingard (who frankly I think has done a lot more to be worthy of starting than VDB). Not worth sacrificing those names and the good of the team just to make VDB happy.
I feel for the guy, moved here hoping he’d get his chance and he hasn’t, well not really, he needs a run in the team to build up form and confidence, when he’s had games and played good he still gets dropped the week after in favour of Fred and mctominay, which Fred has had more bad games then VDB has played in. Seems like 40 mil wasted and could of gone towards a DM.
We have a huge gaping hole where a defensive midfielder should be. The point is not that Scott or Fred are particularly good it is just that as we have a batch of box to box or attacking mids we struggle to get a grip in the middle of the park and this is exacerbated by the fact that no matter how much money we throw at the defence they cannot seem to cope without a ton of help from midfield. For what it's worth I think Varane has been significantly more disappointing so far than Sancho despite the narrative to the contrary in so far as we objectively do not look any better at the back then we did without him.
Sancho played in a team which had a strong structure. This is why he looks lost at United.
The difference is the consequences for the player not getting playing time even as a sub. One played for a footballing minnows. So being a sub for United and most importantly getting regular game time is good enough. The other one is expected to try to get into a squad that is among the top football nations in The World and expect to play in the WC and Euros.
Fair comment but why exactly should Ole care about any of that? In his judgement Donny is currently a back up to his preferred midfield options and will only play in the event of injuries or suspensions, the fact that this harms Donny's international ambitions is of no concern to anyone but Donny.
I meant to write "failed" not sure how I typed "faided". As far as the stats go, "just win baby" worked for the Raiders for many years but at least it was fun to watch. Our performances have been unwatchable, infuriating and devoid of entertainment.
Isn't it the opposite?
Sure, but if Ole sacrifices results for entertainment then he is out of a job. Our best hope is that having addressed all of our other needs we finally land the right CDM to enable us to ditch the 4-2-3-1 either in January or more likely next summer. In the meantime McFred are going to remain the first option because the evidence says we do better with them on the field together. Donny can only hope that one or other of the pair is out for a sustained period to give him a chance to learn the role and in the meantime continue to focus on improving his defensive skills.
We always look vulnerable but without McFred it is usually a lot worse and to clarify it is the 2 together. Fred plus whoever is wank and the same for Scott but somehow the ugly combination of the two makes us harder to beat and miraculously our XG goes way up when they are on the field together. I am buggered if I know how they do it but there is enough clear data now to prove this is a fact, mind blowing though it may be.
At this point, i'd give him 2 games in the U23's see how he does, give him some confidence and then give him couple of starts in first 11
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