[Adam-Utd]

It's not being results orientated. It us leaving the man open in the box. The "result" could've easily changed because VDB left Lanzini unmarked, because a better player for West Ham on the wing could've passed it straight to Lanzini without the deflection. Bailly was the man who covered the front post.

Fans defending VDB for that goal baffles me. Although Telles was primary culprit.

Overall though VDB played well and should be played alongside Mctominay next game instead of Fred. To be fair to him, I can justify that mistake because he will be rusty with the lack of minutes.

There is no right or wrong. You can't say in hindsight what the best thing to do was because you could never predict the deflection.

Frederiks didn't pass it to Lanzini, it got deflected there. If the ball intended to the right target then DVB blocks it.

Why doesn't Matic get the same blame? what's he doing in the whole sequence? I thought this guy was a proper CDM?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I'm not sure how it's baffling? If bowen taps it in its dvb fault for not blocking the nearest threat to goal.

Like a cross in, you don't mark the man at the back post leaving the guy on the pen spot free, you filter in and if the cross goes over your head and the guy at the back taps it in, fair game.

Bailly had the front post covered. VDB moved to double up on the front post and left a man free.

 

[arnie_ni]

Bailly had the front post covered. VDB moved to double up on the front post and left a man free.

I actually just edited my post which mentioned bailly. I still think he has to close bowen and its just an unlucky bounce. The biggest issue was the wing, he beats 3 man with a simple hit and run

 

[Bondi77]

Good to see he is improving as we need a midfielder who is a good passer and can step up the tempo.

 

[Siorac]

First half very good, second half frustrated me. He was playing like a striker on the shoulder of opposition CBs, which was congesting the box while we were also visibly missing his passing skills in midfield. Not sure if that was tactical or what.

It had to be tactical - I doubt he just decided to stop playing as a central midfielder after doing so with fairly impressive discipline for an hour.

Best CM performance I've seen in so called double pivot this season. I don't understand what more people want to see.

At this point he needs to dribble the length of the pitch, beating five players, putting the keeper on his arse and lob the ball into the net for some people to call his performance 'okay'.

I agree it was his best game. I would call it an objectively good performance. Let down by the absolute shite ahead of him. No surprise that his most creative pass of the game was to Greenwood. A pity that he was absolutely knackered by the time he had some good players around him.

It's not just that he was knackered, it seemed he was instructed to play further forward which was a bit inexplicable, considering Bruno was on the pitch, too. I'd love to hear Ole's thinking behind that.

 

[Pickle85]

Good to see him step up today...more of this please. Tidy in possession, ran his heart out and also showed a bit of steel too. Best I've seen him play for us.

 

[Widow]

I thought he had a good game. It wasn't perfect but hardly anyone plays perfectly.

It shows he can do it. His work rate was very good and he was still trying to close down right at the very end.

It would feel like a new signing (cliche) if he could nail down a CM role, if only against teams that sit back.

 

[Borys]

It had to be tactical - I doubt he just decided to stop playing as a central midfielder after doing so with fairly impressive discipline for an hour.

At this point he needs to dribble the length of the pitch, beating five players, putting the keeper on his arse and lob the ball into the net for some people to call his performance 'okay'.

It's not just that he was knackered, it seemed he was instructed to play further forward which was a bit inexplicable, considering Bruno was on the pitch, too. I'd love to hear Ole's thinking behind that.

Me too. I didn't pay full attention in second half so maybe I missed something, but van de Beek - Matic partnership was working very well first 60' so not sure we we decided to break it and push Donny higher up. Especially considering that Bruno entered the pitch.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

MOTM for me. Also for the first time, looks like he now has the physical strength to play in the Premier League.

The people saying 'average', genuinely don't know what games you watch sometimes.

 

[Adnan]

Bailly MAY have got back to the guy at the 6 yard box but otherwise he has a tap in in dvb doesn't drop in there.

VdB shows great intelligence in that situation and puts himself in a position to help Bailly and cut off the pass to Lanzini which he does brilliantly IMO. But you can't compensate for the deflection.

But having said that, Telles and Matic were dreadful in the build up to the goal which put Bailly, Lindelof and VdB in a vulnerable position. Just watch the clip again and watch Matic only, it's a pathetic attempt at stopping the West Ham fullback.

 

[jesperjaap]

He was ok I thought some good things some bad. Neat and tidy on the ball and decent technique, but he did get caught in possesion a few times and was poor fo rthe goal.

Still havent seen enough from him where he is really grabbign his opportunities to not be ignored though, even with our midfield woes. Matic was the stand out player in our midfield which says something.

One of the problems for me where we see him anomynous for large period of the game is his positioning which I find really weird. When we have the ball you often see him moving almost to a full back position or crowded area, he almost takes himself out of the game and run of play with some of his awful movement of the ball, especially when we are in slower possesion based build up which has been often this season.

Soounding harsh, but for me I am seeing a squad player which is how I see nearly all of our central midfielders, we still have nobody doing enough to guarantee they should be starting and thats why its a travesty we didn tsign a quality central midfielder (or two) this last window

 

[onetwo3oclock4oclockrock]

Whenever I've watched him play, I just see an average player that passes sideways and backwards almost every time.

Didn't you just say this was the first time you've seen him?

 

[afatzp]

VDB is the reason we could see fluid and dominating midfield performance today, compared with those congested and slow-mode games like vs Wolves, Southampton, and West Ham 3 days ago. Honestly, I rather see VDB takes spot from ANY of our current midfielders , including Bruno, so I don't have to see those brain-fart passing to no one , or those cowardly back passes from Fred / McT , or million extra touches before releasing the ball from Pogba.
Don't get me wrong, VDB is not perfect or World class player and he did make mistakes, but you can see the intelligence how he reads the game and run the game with his passes and create space. With the amounts of high-risk though-passes Bruno tried each game, I'm sure VDB can produce similar amounts of key passes and polish his game stats. But VDB would not do so as it just not how he interprets the game. If eventually we want to become a dominant team and set ourselves front foot in each game, we actually should adapt to VDB Style instead of asking him to adapt to the current whatever style we are playing, if we could name it. Our results were not bad, but always playing the underdog counterattack in those big games is quite frustrated, especially with all these talents we have in the team.

 

[Andersonson]

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ague-Cup-2021-2022-Manchester-United-West-Ham

Worst rated stats wise, but MOTM in red cafes rating.

Bias

 

[Presto]

He was ok I thought some good things some bad. Neat and tidy on the ball and decent technique, but he did get caught in possesion a few times and was poor fo rthe goal.

Still havent seen enough from him where he is really grabbign his opportunities to not be ignored though, even with our midfield woes. Matic was the stand out player in our midfield which says something.

One of the problems for me where we see him anomynous for large period of the game is his positioning which I find really weird. When we have the ball you often see him moving almost to a full back position or crowded area, he almost takes himself out of the game and run of play with some of his awful movement of the ball, especially when we are in slower possesion based build up which has been often this season.

Soounding harsh, but for me I am seeing a squad player which is how I see nearly all of our central midfielders, we still have nobody doing enough to guarantee they should be starting and thats why its a travesty we didn tsign a quality central midfielder (or two) this last window

I notice this too, quite often he ran into the #10 / AM position when our CBs or Matic have the ball at the back and find an option to pass the ball, like he was trying to hide himself

 

[Borys]

He was ok I thought some good things some bad. Neat and tidy on the ball and decent technique, but he did get caught in possesion a few times and was poor fo rthe goal.

Still havent seen enough from him where he is really grabbign his opportunities to not be ignored though, even with our midfield woes. Matic was the stand out player in our midfield which says something.

One of the problems for me where we see him anomynous for large period of the game is his positioning which I find really weird. When we have the ball you often see him moving almost to a full back position or crowded area, he almost takes himself out of the game and run of play with some of his awful movement of the ball, especially when we are in slower possesion based build up which has been often this season.

Soounding harsh, but for me I am seeing a squad player which is how I see nearly all of our central midfielders, we still have nobody doing enough to guarantee they should be starting and thats why its a travesty we didn tsign a quality central midfielder (or two) this last window

Is that an impression you got after this game? I'm asking because my observations are exactly the opposite, he takes very good positions to receive a pass and circulate the ball, what is probably his biggest strength. Not once yesterday I saw him taking himself out of the game, he was heavily involved all game.

 

[Adnan]

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ague-Cup-2021-2022-Manchester-United-West-Ham

Worst rated stats wise, but MOTM in red cafes rating.

Bias

As bad as Martial and Sancho according to Whoscored, I'm out..

 

[Borys]

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ague-Cup-2021-2022-Manchester-United-West-Ham

Worst rated stats wise, but MOTM in red cafes rating.

Bias

Yeah, according to this seems he's rated same as Martial. Seems legit.

 

[RedC]

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ague-Cup-2021-2022-Manchester-United-West-Ham

Worst rated stats wise, but MOTM in red cafes rating.

Bias

It's nice to actually watch games, instead of reading a stats sheet(not that I think he was MOTM myself, but he was definitely good).

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

That is a good performance at the very least. He's super reliable on the ball (compared to our other midfielders) and what I like about him is how he involves others into play. Plus his defensive game is miles better than an average AM he is supposed to be.
He's definitely a central midfielder.

I have not watched the game but that really does look solid. Very good first touch, not many misplaced passes, mobile and pretty strong. He seldomly gets pushed off the ball. In the second half his passing also got more progressive it seems which is probably what we would get if we played him regurlarly and his confidence got boosted.
Based on this game and Young Boys I really do not see the point in not playing him when I look at our midfield options.

That being said with us being out of the Caraboa that might be the end of the chapter DvB at United.

 

[OleBoiii]

Much better than his usual performances, imo. A step in the right direction.

But can anyone tell me what he excels at? He's not quick or strong, he's not good at winning or intercepting the ball, he's not particularly good at keeping the ball under pressure either and he can't score from outside the box. That pretty much leaves passing and link-up play.

The question then becomes: is he so good at these two aspects of the game that he can displace McTominay or Fred? Personally, I don't see it. If we sign a CM next summer then that will be the final nail in the coffin for him.

I just think he's more suited to play AM, but there's no way he will displace Bruno or Pogba.

 

[crossy1686]

He cost us a goal yesterday but played some good forward passes for once. He shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the DM position ever again though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Much better than his usual performances, imo. A step in the right direction.

But can anyone tell me what he excels at? He's not quick or strong, he's not good at winning or intercepting the ball, he's not particularly good at keeping the ball under pressure either and he can't score from outside the box. That pretty much leaves passing and link-up play.

The question then becomes: is he so good at these two aspects of the game that he can displace McTominay or Fred? Personally, I don't see it. If we sign a CM next summer then that will be the final nail in the coffin for him.

I just think he's more suited to play AM, but there's no way he will displace Bruno or Pogba.

In my opinion, yes. Although, sadly, that’s a low bar.

 

[romufc]

He played really well in possession, created that chance for Greenwood also. I think if we play him more, his confidence will increase and we will see better from him.

One thing he needs to stop doing as a CM is getting attracted to the ball, on the press and defending, he needs to be much better positionally.

 

[Borys]

Much better than his usual performances, imo. A step in the right direction.

But can anyone tell me what he excels at? He's not quick or strong, he's not good at winning or intercepting the ball, he's not particularly good at keeping the ball under pressure either and he can't score from outside the box. That pretty much leaves passing and link-up play.

The question then becomes: is he so good at these two aspects of the game that he can displace McTominay or Fred? Personally, I don't see it. If we sign a CM next summer then that will be the final nail in the coffin for him.

I just think he's more suited to play AM, but there's no way he will displace Bruno or Pogba.

He is much more refined footballer than Fred, definitely stronger than him and much better passer. I don't think either of them is particularly good at positioning off the ball, Fred is faster/more nimble what plays a big role in his game, and he can run non stop 90'.
I can totally see van de Beek taking Fred role, especially that he's in poor form now. But I don't expect that to happen as Ole seems to be very conservative with his midfield and we'll probably more likely to see another Matic-Pogba midfield.
I completely disagree about him suited to play AM for us, looks a proper midfielder.
People also need to consider this guy hardly played regular football in midfield for us, so you can't expect this to be his "final form". This performance deserves more chances to prove himself.

He played really well in possession, created that chance for Greenwood also. I think if we play him more, his confidence will increase and we will see better from him.

One thing he needs to stop doing as a CM is getting attracted to the ball, on the press and defending, he needs to be much better positionally.

I agree with that, if we face a team that moves the ball better through the middle we might be in trouble as van de Beek will be out wide. Same happens with Fred but he's faster to get back and never tired.

 

[Adnan]

He's never gonna be a Modric but he can be a place-holder for someone like Hannibal Mejbri who IMO is a special talent in the mould of a young Modric.

Van de Beek is a good player and IMO under many other coaches he'd be playing ahead of both McTominay and Fred as the 'second 6'. Any coach who wants to play a more expansive game by dominating possession even against the best teams would select VdB IMO because he's technically better than both McFred.

But I don't believe he will play ahead of McFred under Solskjaer, so I can possibly see him leave the club next summer.

 

[Smores]

I'm very surprised to see anyone critical of him as i thought he had a very good game. He did well in getting the ball forward (something we struggle with through the centre bar Pogba), made some good runs, and put himself about with some solid tackles.

He's unlikely to become good enough to prevent the need for a new midfielder but he's showing he can be a good option this season. We certainly need one.

 

[RepardReece]

I'm very surprised to see anyone critical of him as i thought he had a very good game. He did well in getting the ball forward (something we struggle with through the centre bar Pogba), made some good runs, and put himself about with some solid tackles.

He's unlikely to become good enough to prevent the need for a new midfielder but he's showing he can be a good option this season. We certainly need one.

Have to agree. Thought he played well last night and then I come on RedCafe and see this shambles of a thread with a bunch of people crying. It's like some people expect him to be Xavi or Iniesta.

 

[Hughes35]

I only saw the second half yesterday but I thought he was shocking and caught in possession numerous times.

Can only presume he had a good first half from the comments on here. Hopefully he can kick on.

 

[Adam-Utd]

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ague-Cup-2021-2022-Manchester-United-West-Ham

Worst rated stats wise, but MOTM in red cafes rating.

Bias

All this tells me is Whoscored have no idea (or at least the person in charge of this rating) how anybody can watch his performance last night and say he was the worst in the team is frankly bonkers.

 

[JJ12]

He was one of the better players. He needs more miuntes to build on the performance, unfortunately for him and others we just got knocked out of the cup where their game time was coming from.

 

[pascell]

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ague-Cup-2021-2022-Manchester-United-West-Ham

Worst rated stats wise, but MOTM in red cafes rating.

Bias

I was at the game and that was one of his better games, definitely impacted the game more than Martial and to only have 0.02 better of a rating, seems that they've given him his rating off stats.

He always wanted the ball and carried it well and also was progressive with his passing, he actually added urgency to our play when we needed to and got stuck in when defending.

To put him in and around Martial rating wise is laughable.

 

[Sting]

I don’t know what was so impressive about his performance tbh. 9/10 he played the safest passes and didn’t show anything that a young midfielder from the academy couldn’t. I’m all for giving him a chance but let’s not rave over a very average performance especially for a midfielder as expensive as him.

 

[Stacks]

We lost 1-0 and he was responsible for their goal. Since when does this mean "he did pretty well"???

Because his stock is so low. If Fred did that people would be asking for him to be sold

 

[LoneStar]

The guy played after a long time, so was sloppy sometimes which is understandable.

Really positive performance. I hope Ole gives him a chance of playing for a couple of games straight.

 

[Kostov]

Bailly had the front post covered. VDB moved to double up on the front post and left a man free.

Look at Matic there, absolute shambles jogging and doing feck all despite seeing VDB commit to the attacker.

 

[evil_geko]

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ague-Cup-2021-2022-Manchester-United-West-Ham

Worst rated stats wise, but MOTM in red cafes rating.

Bias

At least I know I wont be visiting this website ever again, terrible ratings.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I thought he looked pretty good, certainly one of our better performers last night.

 

[MadMike]

After reprocessing last night's performance, I'm still convinced he was pretty good for 60-odd minutes until he started playing as a forward. It was a neat and tidy CM performance, with the pass to Greenwood being his highlight. I think his defensive awareness, tracking of runners and his aggression on the tackle have improved a lot for someone who used to play mostly AM.

As constructive criticism I would say he still needs to improve a bit in making himself available for a pass and moving into a better position after he's passed the ball. I think that's an area that Matic and Fred in particular do very well in. As soon the CBs or fullbacks receive the ball, those two are instantly switched on and move into free space to receive it. They also become available for a return pass pretty quickly after passing the ball to someone else. I think Matic had something like 25% more touches yesterday as a result of being better positioned to receive the ball. I feel that Donny still goes through periods of ball-watching a bit. Either when he's sitting next to defender or when he passes the ball to someone else and then he just stands where he is, watching.

Another difference I see between players like him and Matic/McTominay/Fred... is carrying the ball. When Donny gets pressed he will always try to offload the ball. Which isn't a bad thing per se, but sometimes if you try to press our other CMs from an unfavourable (for the defender) angle, they will just accelerate past you and carry the ball forward to create an opening. Even old man Matic showed acceleration and carry ability like that in yesterday's game, whereas I don't see that carry ability in VdB at all. However, I don't feel like that's a stick to beat him with because I think that's his style of play and unlikely to change at his age. He also never really showed such ability at Ajax, so we must have known that when we signed him.

 

[Matt851]

I am not convinced he is good enough to play in the double pivot for a title challenging team but must surely be worth giving him more time to see if he is better than mcfred