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Honestly that's really micro analysing his performance. I don't think he took the easiest pass in most of those situations, and the decision making for a midfielder is also on trying to help stretch the opponent. A lot of his simple switches to the other flank were done so to move the players to the other side and help create pockets as they work to cover the other side. It's really not all about what's an easy pass or difficult pass in isolation. Rather it's about the right pass, and I think in most cases he did this.
McTominay definitely shys away from risky passes. Fred tries them more than he should given his ability.It is micro analysing, but what do you think the coaches do? They will be looking at what players like McTominay and Matic do in similar situations. Matic is old now but McTominay and especially Fred don't shy away from risky passes, to the extent of sometimes getting it wrong.
All that is good, although I have to look it back to see if you are actually right about Fred and Donny´s performances in the first half. Whatsoever, it turned out to be the right choice to keep Fred on, at least.This is part of the problem. It seems a lot of fans don't have any idea how he played and are claiming he was awful, when he frankly wasn't. I paid special attention to him, and I was particularly delighted that he showed potential as a 6, given it could mean we will have a deep midfielder who can fecking pass and doesn't lose the ball repeatedly.
This view is further compounded by the views by many fans that Fred was amazing. In the second half, I will give you that, but in the first, he was very poor. His wayward passing caused YB to have a decent attempt on goal and he was bypassed by attackers more than once. There's criticism for Donny passing "safe", which was nonsense, but Fred's passing was most often to wide and back, to the defender and back. I don't get the double standards for each midfielder.
That was Donny's first start in a very long time for us and he was able to match Fred on performance. He was one of two players who I didn't see lose the ball repeatedly. If that is not a good sign, I don't know what is.
There also seems to be an issue where people expect Pogba's output from him. He is not Pogba. But where he does succeed is that he offers greater work rate and more defensive stability. Let's be real here. Pogba gives us great offensive output at CM, but we are so defensively open, the risks outweigh the rewards.
Looking back, Fred got a ridiculous amount of chances to become a regular, as has Martial when on form and looking back so did Pereira and Lingard. We have a much better midfielder in our ranks who has been left to rot, but for some reason we are expecting some ridiculous kind of performance in a game where just about nobody else around him performed.
Based on his performance, he deserves another chance, and criticism has to be laid if he is treated in the same manner as last season.
The premise of your initial reply looks to be solely looking at how many risky passes Donny is making, which is not his role in the team. Ultimately Ole has put him in that position to put in a shift, to carry the ball and to make the right passes. I.E to play forward when the pass is on, to switch when there's an overload on one side and to keep the tempo of the game to suit us. I think he did these things, and just because that involved some more straight forward passes, it doesn't dilute his standard for the brief period he was on.It is micro analysing, but what do you think the coaches do? They will be looking at what players like McTominay and Matic do in similar situations. Matic is old now but McTominay and especially Fred don't shy away from risky passes, to the extent of sometimes getting it wrong.
That´s possible (and you mean vdB for Varane, of course). It´s also possible that we still would have lost (or drawn) the game, and that specific change would have been the thing pundits and hindsight experts would use to beat Ole with. "He saw all the crossers coming into our box in the end of first half, why didn´t he address that in the break". "Taking Pogba off made us totally toothless on the counter. What an absolute ridiculous sub".Yeah, obviously we need to bear that in mind. It is highlights, so to speak.
But, like I said, 23/25 passing (92%) including 4/4 long balls (100%). Defensively; 1 successful tackle, 2 interceptions and 1 block. Only Maguire, Fred and Dalot had more than him and the former two played 90 mins. In fact, I believe in the first half he had the highest defensive contribution in the team. Highlights aside, the stats themselves paint a picture of a rather measured and accomplished performance from a much maligned player.
He didn't deserve to be hauled off based on his performance. Retaining both Pogba and Bruno on the pitch, in a match where we were 1 man down and being endlessly pressured, backfired. I'm fairly convinced that if Pogba was taken off for Matic, instead of VDB for Lindelof, we would have slowed the game down and achieved much better control of the football in the second half. Therefore protecting the defence better by not allowing as many YB attacks.
Whatsoever, it turned out to be the right choice to keep Fred on, at least.
I never suggested taking Fred off. Pogba should have been second off, given him and Sancho were having a mare.while when Donny is doing it - it´s suddenly what a DM is supposed to do.
Well, we pretty much agree then, although I´m a litte on the fence when it comes to Donny. But I´m sure at the end of this season, we´ll have a better pictures of him as a player, and he certainly does not deserve to be written off just yet.I never suggested taking Fred off. Pogba should have been second off, given him and Sancho were having a mare.
This is the thing. I don't expect it from Fred either. I was just suggesting the standards we hold one to should be the standards we hold another to. They're low standards, but at the end of the day, improvement is improvement. We play with 2 DMs to supplement our overly offensive output. Their job is to get the job to the creative players and let them do their thing. Against YB, those players were Pogba, Bruno, Sancho and to a lesser but important extent, Shaw. They are mostly tasked with breaking up play and playing a supportive role.
I have no problem that Fred goes sideways and backwards, because any further and he likely will misplace it. Even when it is a simple pass, he has potential to fluff it. To make my point, there was a moment close to 45 minutes after the sending off, where he has to make a simple pass to Ronaldo who's wide on the right, but he overhits it out for a throw in.
I'm not trying to bash Fred. I like the guy. But he's not good enough. However, he can't be dropped because he is still important for his defensive output. Which means that for now we need someone who is a cleaner passer next to him.
One thing I liked about Donny was the very simple but effective switches to the left. They made us harder to press, which YB tried to do early in the first half and freed up the left side. If we had Matic or McTominay in the same position, the ball goes wide to AWB and we get boxed in before going back to the defenders or De Gea( A very big issue we had against Southampton and Wolves).
So, it wasn't some wonderful performance, but for a first performance among a team who played utter shite, he showed potential that he could be a good player there.
That´s possible (and you mean VDG for Varane, of course). It´s also possible that we still would have lost (or drawn) the game, and that specific change would have been the thing pundits and hindsight experts would use to beat Ole with. "He saw all the crossers coming into our box in the end of first half, why didn´t he address that in the break". "Taking Pogba off made us totally toothless on the counter. What an absolute ridiculous sub".
Personally, I was quite happy with the change that was made, cause I was hoping that 3 at the back would allow Shaw and Dalot to push more forward and provide us with some width in attack, and that way allow us to play more on their half. If he hadn´t done that, and we still lost (or drew), I´m pretty sure we would have heard from certain pundits what an obvious change that would have been.
In the end we are not used to play with 10 men at all, whatever formation. Anyway, we´re not having a big disagreement here. I was just trying to think back to my reaction of the change at the moment it happened - with the limited tactical understanding I have - instead of analysing it in hindsight, which is course, a far easier exercise.It's obviously possible that it wouldn't have worked either. It's also fairly certain that unless we actually won the game, then any action taken by Ole would be seen in negative light by the pundits who would claim he should have done something different. In fact, we're doing the same thing here.
But I think I mentioned the reasons why I wasn't happy with the changes. We don't play with 3 at the back, we're not familiar with the formation. And even if we wanted to play 3 at the back, given the circumstances of the red card, then playing Pogba and Bruno in the middle (two players very profligate with the ball) was not the way to go about it. My reaction was that Ole botched the call on the basis that he either was too afraid to sub one of his stars in Pogba/Bruno or that he trusted them more than VDB based on their historical performances rather than what was unfolding on the pitch in front of his eyes.
The premise of your initial reply looks to be solely looking at how many risky passes Donny is making, which is not his role in the team. Ultimately Ole has put him in that position to put in a shift, to carry the ball and to make the right passes. I.E to play forward when the pass is on, to switch when there's an overload on one side and to keep the tempo of the game to suit us. I think he did these things, and just because that involved some more straight forward passes, it doesn't dilute his standard for the brief period he was on.
50 seconds - not the worst, but he had so many options forward instead of passing to Maguire
1.03 - run into the space, drag some players towards you
1.23 - turn and look up, he had so much space to run into there
1.30 - took the beginnings of an attack and passed it back to Maguire
None of these are the worst things in isolation but it all reminds me of Rio saying how Roy Keane ripped into him when he first joined for taking the easy option. DVB still takes the easiest pass he sees instead of looking for what might be better.
Not necessarily. If you see that video youl find he was doing just as much defensive work as his partner in midfield. Worth noting Pogba and Fred were both having an average enough game themselves.From what we know Ole has him in there to move the ball through the lines from when Fred wins the ball back. I didn't see very much of him doing that on Tuesday night.
It did seem tactical though. Very oddly tactical, but the manner in which him, Bruno and Sancho were alternating in that central midfield position implied it was. I guess we were trying to be more fluid but it was just weird.his positioning was a bit strange at times when we had the ball.
