[Nero]

In before Ten Hag takes over and Donny is still on the bench.

 

[crossy1686]

You can’t know if a player has anything about him if you don’t play him. The “shit in training” cliche is absurd. Have you ever before heard of an Ajax player who was outstanding in a CL run be “shit in training” for another club?

Well if you want to run a meritocracy then those who perform best in training are those who should start, otherwise what’s the incentive to train well? Are you suggesting the manager should just pick players he likes instead? Our players that did well in a competition 3 years ago? What message does that send to the rest of the squad?

Donny isn’t strong enough to play PL football and I would imagine he gets shoved off the ball far easy in training for the manager to ever really seriously consider giving him a run in anything.

 

[Presto]

Why? Maybe he’ll be better or stronger from the experience? Like said, don’t get the outcry about Donny. Yes should have played more but when you have Pogs and Bruno in your position, it’s always a risk.

2 full seasons without regular football and lost a place in his national squad already, have never ever really given a chance here, didn't feature in the starting lineup even when Bruno was dropped and Fred was missing, meanwhile managers don't let him go whilst keeping promising him chance to play, you think it could be any worse than this?

 

[Slysi17]

The only reason he wouldn’t be for sale is that a manger with specific intention is proposed to join our club in the summer.

Quite frankly it appears he’s not good enough and people struggle to accept that.

Scott McTominay and Fred ain't good enough either. That's 2 midfielders we need to buy if Pogba leaves. It really is embarrasing that the only midfielder we bought was Donny in the whole time Ole was here and doesn't get used.

 

[R'hllor]

My issue isnt him being on the bench but when you look those on the pitch, regardless of their performance they still start, thinking myself, he cant be worse than them, maybe not better but worse, thats not possible.

 

[Litch]

it’s easy to get a high passing rate when most of the passes are sideways. I’m not saying fred is a bad player, he is average and average isn’t good enough for united. When I think of how we can win the league again, fred isn’t in the starting 11.

how many players have we signed and didn’t work. Quite a few and all of these are disappointing especially when they have potential. Signing VDB and not working hurts more than signing Butner and not working though

But people say Fred can’t pass even sideways? Anyway, it’s funny because Utd winning teams have always had average players, Steve Bruce one of our best captains was pretty average compared to many CB’s. If you look at a number of Liverpool players, most would have said they were average when signed? You think there was a queue of clubs for Henderson?
We have signed hundreds that did work, literally but as fans our view is limited in why they haven’t worked. We don’t see what they are like in training or the lifestyles that they live or what they are like around the other players. You think Mata was kept for football reasons?
The signing of VDB for me was more about if Pogs was leaving, and COVID then changed all of that. He then found himself behind Pogs and Bruno as he was never signed as a replacement for McFred. Rather than people questioning why he’s not playing because of them, the question is why he didn’t get a chance when Bruno’s form dipped Pogs was injured.

For me, if the football world thinks he’s the player that Utd fans do, why does it appear he’s only been linked with Everton? That would suggest he’s pretty average too. Pogs has been pretty limited here, yet he appears to be off to Madrid to probably play with Mbappe this summer…..that’s the difference.

 

[Idxomer]

My issue isnt him being on the bench but when you look those on the pitch, regardless of their performance they still start, thinking myself, he cant be worse than them, maybe not better but worse, thats not possible.

It's obvious he isn't competing with those players.

 

[Stobzilla]

He'll probably play against Boro, be crap and people will still say he would be better if he played in the 1st XI.

The cycle continueth.

 

[arthurka]

My issue isnt him being on the bench but when you look those on the pitch, regardless of their performance they still start, thinking myself, he cant be worse than them, maybe not better but worse, thats not possible.

All the managers and assistants can't be wrong. He has had three managers here and one of them bought him, he has shown shit all since he came. I am starting to think he just isn't all that good even if the Caf's xG specialists say he is the bomb.

 

[Litch]

You can’t know if a player has anything about him if you don’t play him. The “shit in training” cliche is absurd. Have you ever before heard of an Ajax player who was outstanding in a CL run be “shit in training” for another club?

yes we signed one….Depay. Ajax aren’t the barometer of all that’s good in football. You know it’s still about the individual beyond the shirt. Dont get it, there is not a football manager in world football, not to mention Ole and RR in their dream jobs that wouldn’t play a player if they thought would win them games, even if the didn’t like them. Both managers have complete different agendas, experience, knowledge and expertise yet reached the same conclusion. That should tell you something.
Training is were you find out everything about players, their preparation, fitness, work rate, ability to translate what you have asked to what they do, how they compare to others in their position and much more. How do you think the young lad got promoted to the first team?

 

[Litch]

2 full seasons without regular football and lost a place in his national squad already, have never ever really given a chance here, didn't feature in the starting lineup even when Bruno was dropped and Fred was missing, meanwhile managers don't let him go whilst keeping promising him chance to play, you think it could be any worse than this?

The answer for me is so what? We sign hundreds of players over the years that never got a chance even under SAF. That happens at big clubs and a chance players take moving from small fish into a big pond. Ive always like Donny, watched him quite few times and historically some of my fav players are Dutch but, there must be a reason why he’s not been selected otherwise he’d play. I kind of questioned it under Ole but with RR coming in and doing the same yet he has promoted players and even Phil Jones has got a game speaks volumes. Just some people don’t want to hear it….

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

What I don't understand is that he doesn't get any time at all, like he's played 69 minutes in 22 league games.... even if he got 4 20 minute spells off the bench or one full 90 minutes he'd get more time on the pitch than that. How can you possibly prove yourself in 69 minutes?

He's played 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 45 minutes, 1 minute, 1 minute, 4 minutes, 2 minutes, 1 minute...

How did the 45 minute spell go? He was the best player on the pitch!

Really bizarre stuff.

 

[The Mitcher]

What I don't understand is that he doesn't get any time at all, like he's played 69 minutes in 22 league games.... even if he got 4 20 minute spells off the bench or one full 90 minutes he'd get more time on the pitch than that. How can you possibly prove yourself in 69 minutes?

He's played 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 45 minutes, 1 minute, 1 minute, 4 minutes, 2 minutes, 1 minute...

How did the 45 minute spell go? He was the best player on the pitch!

Really bizarre stuff.

When has he ever been our best player on the pitch? Never. When ever he get's significant game time, he messes his chance up.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

When has he ever been our best player on the pitch? Never. When ever he get's significant game time, he messes his chance up.

Watford... the only league game he played more than 45 minutes.

To refresh your memory:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...l-news/manchester-united-van-de-beek-22226541
https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/20/donn...gainst-watford-says-owen-hargreaves-15637800/

 

[Zlatattack]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the club at the moment. Why Donny doesn't get a chance really intrigues me.

 

[Ixion]

I'm a big Martial fan and hope he stays and does well but the idea he gets on the pitch ahead of VDB when he has actively tried to leave while Donny has just gotten on with things really irks me. Just let him go somewhere.

 

[Pickle85]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the club at the moment. Why Donny doesn't get a chance really intrigues me.

Agreed. All I can assume is that either he's too lightweight, showing nothing in training or both. Also, I have to say that when he has played he's not shown anything that makes me think he should start. Plays it safe and generally just receives the ball then pops it straight off to the closest teammate. Great for pass completion stats but not much else.

 

[Terranova]

yes we signed one….Depay. Ajax aren’t the barometer of all that’s good in football. You know it’s still about the individual beyond the shirt. Dont get it, there is not a football manager in world football, not to mention Ole and RR in their dream jobs that wouldn’t play a player if they thought would win them games, even if the didn’t like them. Both managers have complete different agendas, experience, knowledge and expertise yet reached the same conclusion. That should tell you something.
Training is were you find out everything about players, their preparation, fitness, work rate, ability to translate what you have asked to what they do, how they compare to others in their position and much more. How do you think the young lad got promoted to the first team?

Depay and Ajax? I think you need refrain from this discussion if the basis of your argument is totally wrong. Depay played for PSV, not Ajax. Same competition, but absolutely not comparable

 

[Litch]

Depay and Ajax? I think you need refrain from this discussion if the basis of your argument is totally wrong. Depay played for PSV, not Ajax. Same competition, but absolutely not comparable

Fans are so funny, Christ shoot me it’s the wrong club but the principle is still the same. Came from Dutch football, lots of money with high expectations. Ended up not being played and sold. No one’s crying in their cornflakes about that, maybe cause the perception of Depay was different?

 

[crossy1686]

Fans are so funny, Christ shoot me it’s the wrong club but the principle is still the same. Came from Dutch football, lots of money with high expectations. Ended up not being played and sold. No one’s crying in their cornflakes about that, maybe cause the perception of Depay was different?

I don’t know, there was a bunch of people using Barcelona’s interest in Depay as a stick to beat us with “joke of a club”, “clueless” and all that nonsense. Despite him being no where near the standard mentally or performance wise for United.

I’ve just come to accept that there’s a section of fans that have fully bought into a players brand and believe that despite all the evidence and reports, the club are mistreating or even abusing the player instead, and all he needs is a “good” manager to get the best out of him.

As you mentioned earlier, if the lad was good enough and he could win games, unlock a defence or even protect our defence better than anyone currently playing, he’d start. It’s that simple.

 

[Terranova]

Fans are so funny, Christ shoot me it’s the wrong club but the principle is still the same. Came from Dutch football, lots of money with high expectations. Ended up not being played and sold. No one’s crying in their cornflakes about that, maybe cause the perception of Depay was different?

Fans are so funny, thinking that managers are always 100% in the right. Even though our football has been shit for a few years now and end up blaming a good player who doesn't fit our relegation candidate tactics for being not good enough, even though he has proven himself in a better footballing team than United(and i say team, not squad, big difference. That's the reason Ajax does better, worse players, better team) at a bigger stage, the latter stages of the CL.

 

[phelans shorts]

Fans are so funny, thinking that managers are always 100% in the right. Even though our football has been shit for a few years now and end up blaming a good player who doesn't fit our relegation candidate tactics for being not good enough, even though he has proven himself in a better footballing team than United(and i say team, not squad, big difference. That's the reason Ajax does better, worse players, better team) at a bigger stage, the latter stages of the CL.

The thing is, it’s not one manager. It’s 2 now, well 3 if you include Carrick who used him the same as the other two after Donny did absolutely nothing at Villarreal. Managers who’s opinion has been backed up by luminaries such as Marco Van Basten.

Donny is a good player, and he fit what that Ajax team did, but you need to be an out of this world player for a team to change entirely to get the best out of you. Donny just isn’t of that standard.

 

[Litch]

Fans are so funny, thinking that managers are always 100% in the right. Even though our football has been shit for a few years now and end up blaming a good player who doesn't fit our relegation candidate tactics for being not good enough, even though he has proven himself in a better footballing team than United(and i say team, not squad, big difference. That's the reason Ajax does better, worse players, better team) at a bigger stage, the latter stages of the CL.

…….you might be right and like said, I did question it will Ole, I thought maybe it’s not his signing but what’s RR‘s agenda? Why if he’s that good, why does he seem to be linked with teams worst than Utd? Even more so than that, why don’t Ajax want him back?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Agreed. All I can assume is that either he's too lightweight, showing nothing in training or both. Also, I have to say that when he has played he's not shown anything that makes me think he should start. Plays it safe and generally just receives the ball then pops it straight off to the closest teammate. Great for pass completion stats but not much else.

But that's what we need a lot of the time, we are completely incapable of controlling a game in midfield in any capacity. We end up on the back foot in games and can't set the tempo/dictate the play in any shape or form. It exposes our defence and leaving us chasing shadows against good midfields.

 

[phelans shorts]

But that's what we need a lot of the time, we are completely incapable of controlling a game in midfield in any capacity. We end up on the back foot in games and can't set the tempo/dictate the play in any shape or form. It exposes our defence and leaving us chasing shadows against good midfields.

This is pretty poorly timed given our total control of the match yesterday.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

He's seen Mctominay and Fred playing completely awful and still start ahead of him or finish games. He's seen a youth academy Elanga given better chances to prove himself, and he's seen Martial that wants to leave get subbed on when we needed to create chances and score.

I always defended him but at this point I just assume he's either the worst player in training or his style of play has no place in the coaches plans

 

[Terranova]

…….you might be right and like said, I did question it will Ole, I thought maybe it’s not his signing but what’s RR‘s agenda? Why if he’s that good, why does he seem to be linked with teams worst than Utd? Even more so than that, why don’t Ajax want him back?

Because he doesn't play that much. Before his transfer to United he was Madrid bound, until Covid hit. Now it's only logical that big teams don't want him, because he doesn't really play and Ajax doesn't want him back because they have a full midfield already and i'm not sure VDB would want to go back.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I'd try a swap deal with Tielemans who has 1 year left on his contract in the summer. Swap deals rarely happens though but just to test the waters for Tielemans

 

[Bobski]

So I am assuming if Ajax get to the QF or SF this year then we should go and get Davy Klassen, a guy whose numbers, stats, and style of play are very similar to Donny. I wonder if Everton fans have so much angst over their misuse of him?

Or you know what, if that CL run in 2019 is the be all and end all then I wonder if Wanayama and Winks are available?

 

[Terranova]

So I am assuming if Ajax get to the QF or SF this year then we should go and get Davy Klassen, a guy whose numbers, stats, and style of play are very similar to Donny. I wonder if Everton fans have so much angst over their misuse of him?

Or you know what, if that CL run in 2019 is the be all and end all then I wonder if Wanayama and Winks are available?

Klaassen and VDB are similar, but VDB is at a higher level. But both thrive in possession based teams. So Everton was a wrong team for Klaassen to go to, so is United at the moment for VDB. But all some people want is players that fit in our non-tactics instead of players that can help us make the transition to an actual system that would allow us to challenge for the title again.

 

[RuudTom83]

Donny is an attacking central midfielder. His competition is Bruno.

His competition isn’t Matic or Fred

 

[Pickle85]

But that's what we need a lot of the time, we are completely incapable of controlling a game in midfield in any capacity. We end up on the back foot in games and can't set the tempo/dictate the play in any shape or form. It exposes our defence and leaving us chasing shadows against good midfields.

I don't think that he does enough on the ball to justify this, though I take your point about the importance of ball retention. Thing is, you do also need to be able to do something with it and nothing about him that I've seen has shown he can dictate play or set tempo. Plus he still seems extremely lightweight. For me, he's got too much of the Tom Cleverleys to him.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

This is pretty poorly timed given our total control of the match yesterday.

Ah the same problems are mostly there, we'd one shot on goal in the first 70-80 minutes. The midfield is poor, just look at the Wolves game and several other games this season. Can't control games, leaving us open, but also not particularly creative.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Donny was Ajax player under ten Hag and Pochettino wanted Donny at Spurs so if either of those 2 becomes our manager, then vdB's United career may not be finished. If it's someone else then he'll regret ever coming and basically losing 2 years of his career with us.

 

[redshaw]

The club will have to either loan him out or sell him soon. I'd like him to get a chance but not over Bruno. I can only see a place if we do a diamond shape with say McTom Fred and Donny with Bruno at the tip and two strikers. We lose a bit of width though.

He's not come in when Pogba has been injured for long periods and even when Bruno was out too Ole put in Lingard instead. With Pogba and Lingard going I can only see him getting some minutes that Lingard has and that's not good enough. A real waste of 35-40 million.

I wonder how much we paid up front and if we do sell I can only see around 20 million maximum or a loan to buy at around 20 million.

 

[R'hllor]

All the managers and assistants can't be wrong. He has had three managers here and one of them bought him, he has shown shit all since he came. I am starting to think he just isn't all that good even if the Caf's xG specialists say he is the bomb.

They might not be wrong but as long starters on his position area are not looking good, people will ask for him.

 

[lex talionis]

yes we signed one….Depay. Ajax aren’t the barometer of all that’s good in football. You know it’s still about the individual beyond the shirt. Dont get it, there is not a football manager in world football, not to mention Ole and RR in their dream jobs that wouldn’t play a player if they thought would win them games, even if the didn’t like them. Both managers have complete different agendas, experience, knowledge and expertise yet reached the same conclusion. That should tell you something.
Training is were you find out everything about players, their preparation, fitness, work rate, ability to translate what you have asked to what they do, how they compare to others in their position and much more. How do you think the young lad got promoted to the first team?

Horrible example, mate. Depay was given plenty of chances and consistently played like crap and we rightly let him go.

We can all speculate about why Donny has never been given a proper run out of 3-4 matches. Maybe he is shit in training. Maybe he refuses to show up for training. Maybe he’s a disgrace as a human being outside of training. But none of us can know if any of that might be true.

But what we do know is that it’s poor management by the club to spend 35m on a transfer fee and 100k/ week in wages and not even give him a proper chance to prove his doubters wrong.

 

[Litch]

Horrible example, mate. Depay was given plenty of chances and consistently played like crap and we rightly let him go.

We can all speculate about why Donny has never been given a proper run out of 3-4 matches. Maybe he is shit in training. Maybe he refuses to show up for training. Maybe he’s a disgrace as a human being outside of training. But none of us can know if any of that might be true.

But what we do know is that it’s poor management by the club to spend 35m on a transfer fee and 100k/ week in wages and not even give him a proper chance to prove his doubters wrong.

Its an example of how things don’t always go to plan and not comparing ‘like for like’ given that’s an impossible even if Donny played more. Its poor management to play someone that doesn’t merit the chance irrespective of what we paid for him. Donny deserves nothing more or less than what others have had and like said, even when players have said they want to leave, players that haven’t consistently played or a young lad from U23’s, they have had a chance. What is a simple fact is Donny hasn’t proved to now both coaches, different experiences and pressures that he doesn’t warrant anything other than 10 mins of football at the end of the game, that’s the cold hard facts. The only doubters he needs to prove wrong are the managers who both very quickly decided he not worth anything than dead rubber of games or of less interest in.

If he wants to play, I’m under no illusion that he could leave, zero but clearly he doesn’t and who could blame him if the only offer on the table are teams he’d have never have signed for in the first place.

 

[lex talionis]

Its an example of how things don’t always go to plan and not comparing ‘like for like’ given that’s an impossible even if Donny played more. Its poor management to play someone that doesn’t merit the chance irrespective of what we paid for him. Donny deserves nothing more or less than what others have had and like said, even when players have said they want to leave, players that haven’t consistently played or a young lad from U23’s, they have had a chance. What is a simple fact is Donny hasn’t proved to now both coaches, different experiences and pressures that he doesn’t warrant anything other than 10 mins of football at the end of the game, that’s the cold hard facts. The only doubters he needs to prove wrong are the managers who both very quickly decided he not worth anything than dead rubber of games or of less interest in.

If he wants to play, I’m under no illusion that he could leave, zero but clearly he doesn’t and who could blame him if the only offer on the table are teams he’d have never have signed for in the first place.

It is absolutely a stone cold fact the both Ole and Ralf have only given Donny 10 minutes (more like 5, but whatever) every three or four games.

Bit it’s also a stone cold fact that Ole was sacked almost immediately after his contract was renewed, which speaks to his competence as a manager. As for Ralf, no top club was banging on his door to manage them. Ralf is and very likely will only be interim manager and he can be excused for having only grinding out results to land 4th on his mind.

Donny’s previous manager, ETH, took Ajax on a long CL run, is doing well now — without Donny, to be sure — and is considered one of the top managers on the planet. So there’s that.

But let’s go back in time. One thing we learned about Ole was his stuborness. No matter how shit they played, he stuck with McFred or Maguire or Rashford. Bruno had been poor for a long time but one can question his undroppable status. But both Fred and McTominay had become undroppable under Ole, which meant doom for. Donny.

Pogba also stood in Donny’s path, so no complaints there. But Pogba has been out for long stretches yet Ole persisted with Fred and McTominay, a decision which few would hail as managerial genius.

 

[Litch]

It is absolutely a stone cold fact the both Ole and Ralf have only given Donny 10 minutes (more like 5, but whatever) every three or four games.

Bit it’s also a stone cold fact that Ole was sacked almost immediately after his contract was renewed, which speaks to his competence as a manager. As for Ralf, no top club was banging on his door to manage them. Ralf is and very likely will only be interim manager and he can be excused for having only grinding out results to land 4th on his mind.

Donny’s previous manager, ETH, took Ajax on a long CL run, is doing well now — without Donny, to be sure — and is considered one of the top managers on the planet. So there’s that.

But let’s go back in time. One thing we learned about Ole was his stuborness. No matter how shit they played, he stuck with McFred or Maguire or Rashford. Bruno had been poor for a long time but one can question his undroppable status. But both Fred and McTominay had become undroppable under Ole, which meant doom for. Donny.

Pogba also stood in Donny’s path, so no complaints there. But Pogba has been out for long stretches yet Ole persisted with Fred and McTominay, a decision which few would hail as managerial genius.

Ok you absolutely right. RR is a crap manager too because he doesn’t play Donny..….and you don’t have any agenda. My apologies.