Looks like a Kepa.
Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch
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He got overran by Brighton!
I do think you need a bit of pace to be successful up top in England. I can see wht Frank would take him out of a pressure filled midfield battle.
I do think you need a bit of pace to be successful up top in England. I can see wht Frank would take him out of a pressure filled midfield battle.
Impossible to judge a player based on their debut.
Did not really see him last night. Maybe a slow starter.
This will be the deciding factor for him. His "whole career" (sounds silly typing that about a 21 year old) he played for a club with relatively calm and friendly media coverage but now it's completely different. He suddenly became the record transfer of a top six club in the EPL, he hasn't got a "native bonus" so fans and media alike will be less forgiving.
It'll be interesting to see how he handles the pressure. Even with us he at times showed frustration with himself when things didn't really work out and allowed himself to get into a negativity spiral after a few bad touches. He has to work on that part of his game. His debut was very nervous and you could see that he wasn't pleased with himself at all.
That being said, the abilities are obviously there - guess he'll need a little time to adapt and mature but I'm positive he'll make it in the EPL.
Him running back half the length of the pitch to recover a ball he lost pleased me.
We've not signed him to set the league on fire this year, he's a long term investment.
We've not signed him to set the league on fire this year, he's a long term investment.
Yeah, You are definitely right.
He looked like he was putting himself under pressure with every touch, and I'm sorry to harp on about it but that pass to the linesman was the end of him last night! To see a professional player do that under zero pressure was hilarious!!
Wish I had a GIF of that!
I'm sure he will be quality for Chelsea, it's just funny seeing little to no mention from the media of how poor he was last night!
Once you have Ziyech and Pulisic back running and fit - where do you think Havertz will play?
I've never been a fan of him coming from the wing. Don't think he has enough of the ball to be effective.
I don't want Chelsea to do well - but I think playing him behind Werner is the way to go to make him click. Ziyech from the right, Pulisic from the left, Havertz behind Werner - and then Kante/Kovacic and Jorginho behind.
Difficult for me to say as I've only really seen Havertz from YouTube comps! Somewhere in the middle seems most likely from everything I've read.
Havertz is the new Joe Cole and Lampard going to turn in to the new Mourinho, except without digging players out in public and generally a bit less of a cnut?
Did he? That sounds funnyI need to see a gif of this
Ziyech will play from the right wing. Havertz central and Pullisic from the left. I can see Chelsea using 4231 a lot more this season to fit in the front 4 players.
Overreactions based on one game are one thing. But this is the other extreme. Imagine calling a player who cost that high fee during Corona and earns already hefty wages a "long term investment".
He made his debut in not so ideal circumstances. He hasn't kicked a ball since Leverkusen lost to Inter 5 weeks ago. No preseason games, hardly any training time with the squad etc. I suspect Lampard might not have started him if Ziyech wasn't injured because it's not really doing him any favours throwing into a competitive game with literally zero preparation. He looked like how players generally look in the first preseason game of the summer.
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You could see he was very much disappointed in his own performance but I would'nt let it bother me too much if I were him. Werner’s extended stay in the team relative to Havertz was evident in the contrasting performances.
Like has already been stated, I don't think he starts this game, much less on the wings, if Ziyech wasn't injured.
I think Frank was also trying to use this game to experiment with the Mount - Havertz combo and how best RLC fits into this squad in the long run. With no preseason I think we may see more of these experiments until Ziyech, Chillwell and Pulisic are fully fit and Tiago is integrated into the team. Hopefully we keep seeing some good results to paper over the cracks that will show in this period. I'll take a draw with Pool at this point in time.
Like has already been stated, I don't think he starts this game, much less on the wings, if Ziyech wasn't injured.
I think Frank was also trying to use this game to experiment with the Mount - Havertz combo and how best RLC fits into this squad in the long run. With no preseason I think we may see more of these experiments until Ziyech, Chillwell and Pulisic are fully fit and Tiago is integrated into the team. Hopefully we keep seeing some good results to paper over the cracks that will show in this period. I'll take a draw with Pool at this point in time.
Imagine thinking spending 70 million quid on a 21 year old who has never played in the premier League and giving him a five year contract was a "short term" investment.
Actually, I can't really imagine that, it's too silly.
He seems to be better when he gets more central slowed down play and set up James for a few crosses, but all in all it was a very underwhelming debut.
Might take him a while to get up to speed like Pulisic did but I have no doubt he’ll be a good signing.
Might take him a while to get up to speed like Pulisic did but I have no doubt he’ll be a good signing.
Jeez, the over-reactions in here. I know some signings hit the ground running like a Bruno or some start off really well in the summer months and then fade in the winter. I think people look at a Bruno or James debut for Everton and seem to think all players can do that. He's 21 years old and a big talent, give him at least a few months or even a full season. Even at Chelsea we have the example of Pulisic who after a few months has settled and now is doing really well.
At least Pulisic travelled to Japan, went through the intensive preseason training, played some games and bonded with his teammates off the pitch. Havertz appears to have walked in after a 5 week holiday and then asked to play in a competitive PL game.
I had hoped for a more positive debut of course and it was frustrating to see him not really have any impact on the game at all but as I said in another post, I don't think starting him in those circumstances did him any favours whatsoever.
He is clearly a class act even if he was terrible last night. That moment when he dribbled it across the pitch only to spoon it completely out of play in the 2nd half was the low light.
Off topic but if Hudson-Odoi can't get into their team now with Pulisic and Ziyech injured I wouldn't mind going for him since we need a right winger.
Yeah everyone said Fabinho was garbage for the first 4 months.
I don't think there's been any over reactions, he was genuinely that bad.
When you sign somebody for £70m+ and they've been labelled a generational talent by many - to put up a debut like that was frankly awful.
Now that doesn't mean he won't turn it around and perform much better after a few months, but he clearly isn't physically ready for the league, he wanted too much time on the ball and lost the ball shielding it too weakly. He has a lot of natural ability but he's going to take a while to settle down.
I think it's fair that some people watched him expecting a LOT more. If he played for United and dropped that performance as his debut we wouldn't hear the end of it, the press would be labelling him a flop.
If you're comparing your takes to the press whose entire business model is predicated on overreacting, that says it all really doesn't it?
I don't care if he dropped his shorts and took a shite in the centre circle the way Loftus-Cheek did last night; it's still absurd to judge after one game.
Really? After one game? Surely even that's too low a bar for the press to fall?
I'm not naïve enough to expect rave and unbiased reviews of our players from rival fans. You'd argue some even needed this poor performance with all that's going on with Sancho. I mean there is still debates about Hazard’s PL exploits and all that.
Havertz could score a hattrick against Pool next week, fail to complete a pass the following week and the “he's overrated” crowd will come back in full volume. This actually happened to Pulisic in case you think I'm exaggerating.
Like it or not people are always judging. We've only seen 1 game so far so that's all we have to go on - i'm sure after a few more games we will see more of what we expected from him.
It just makes me laugh that people talked like he was already world class and was some sort of game changing signing.
Yes the press are that hard on United especially. If VDB drops a stinker on Saturday we will see!
They'll be back once he drops a clanger of a performance, they always do.
Sure and thus I'm equally able to judge and laugh at people who do absurd things like judge a 21 year old player making his debut after no preseason.
Or maybe you're just projecting your thoughts of Sancho onto the thoughts of Chelsea fans with regards to Havertz? I've not seen any Chelsea fans label Havertz as some sort of saviour on here. He is a highly rated young player we couldn't miss out on, not our messiah to lead us to PL domination for 10+ yrs, ala Sancho.
I think a lot here are delighted at his poor debut in order to get some comfort that he will potentially be a flop signing.
Personally, I think he has everything ability wise to be a superstar for Chelsea and go on to be one of the best players in the league. His ability is not in doubt. The biggest challenge for him will be how he copes mentally. If we are honest, he had a pretty shocking debut. Probably not far off Mkhitaryan for us. The main thing is for him not to let it affect him mentally. If he can handle the media pressure and the intensity of Premier league, he has what it takes to be a star.
Personally, I think he has everything ability wise to be a superstar for Chelsea and go on to be one of the best players in the league. His ability is not in doubt. The biggest challenge for him will be how he copes mentally. If we are honest, he had a pretty shocking debut. Probably not far off Mkhitaryan for us. The main thing is for him not to let it affect him mentally. If he can handle the media pressure and the intensity of Premier league, he has what it takes to be a star.
Looks like a good time to play against this lot. How many Chelsea first team players will not be fit to play against Liverpool next? Looks like at least six - Pulisic, Ziyech, Chilwell, Mendy*, Silva, Havertz**.
Pool will get easy three points, unfortunately. I wish we were playing them instead.
*: Barely transferred yet
**: Not adjusted yet
Pool will get easy three points, unfortunately. I wish we were playing them instead.
*: Barely transferred yet
**: Not adjusted yet
He is better than what he showed yesterday, but I hope some people here finally undestand why a lot of Bundesliga watchers (the objective ones) have said that he's not even close to being a worldclass player already, like some others proclaimed.
He still has many weaknesses in his game and the physicality of the Premier League will be something he has to adapt to. He's much more of a finesse player (a bit like Özil) than an actual physical offensive midfielder.
Like I've said all along: There is a reason he is not a starter in the N11 yet and why everyone and their mother (Flick, KHR, Holzhäuser etc.) said, that he didn't go to Bayern, because he would sit behind Müller.
He still has many weaknesses in his game and the physicality of the Premier League will be something he has to adapt to. He's much more of a finesse player (a bit like Özil) than an actual physical offensive midfielder.
Like I've said all along: There is a reason he is not a starter in the N11 yet and why everyone and their mother (Flick, KHR, Holzhäuser etc.) said, that he didn't go to Bayern, because he would sit behind Müller.
How about physically? He looks pretty lightweight yesterday.
Yes he is slim build but that's not neccessarily a bad thing. I know it sounds like a lazy comparison but he is very similar to Ozil in that he's a creative attacking mid who can play from the right. He's a better goal scorer than Ozil. But in modern football it's not a neccessity to be bulked up and be successful. Look at David Silva who went on to be one of the best ever.
Funnily enough I think the same with Chelsea players too. Maybe its just because you are naturally more interested in United related news than opposition teams, like I am with Chelsea.
Maybe get past Crystal Palace first?
But I am looking forward to GW6 really. Not so much against Liverpool, not there yet.
Thanks for this,
Made me laugh so much last night I had to rewind and watch about five times!!
I think if you play him in a wide(-ish) role he's bound to look mediocre, as he needs players around him to make up for his lack of pace and dribbling. So looking at the way Chelsea lined up yesterday it wasn't a surprise to see him disappoint. Though to be fair that pass to the linesman indeed looked like a case of nerves. I probably said it before, but I was a bit surprised that Chelsea went for both Werner and Havertz, because their best roles, are basically mutually exclusive with each other, as either want to play behind/around a "proper" no9.
Wow, as if Müller never had slapstick performances in his life. We're speaking of Thomas fecking Müller, probably THE top player of the last 15 years that had fans scratching their heads, thinking how a player on this level can be so bad at many technical disciplines the most. I mean, you blatantly ignore the circumstances (new team, no automatisms, 5 days of training, new country, new league, pressure, played out of position) to support your agenda. The fact that you consider yourself "objective" is even more laughable than Havertz' performance yesterday. But go ahead, keep telling yourself Müller is an unbenchable top 10 player in the world.
I mean, no problem with people being overly critical of him, like many have been in this thread - after all he'll have to deal with it given his fee -, but pretending you're objective? Sweet jesus.
Yeah awful debut, but he definitely wasn't helped by his positioning at all. Everything I've seen of him suggests he's a player in the mould of Müller or Alli, who'll do his best work in and around the penalty box.
While he can link play quite nicely, I dont think he's anywhere near suited to the wide playmaker role he tried to play yesterday - not at this stage anyway. Will be interesting to watch his development throughout the season.
While he can link play quite nicely, I dont think he's anywhere near suited to the wide playmaker role he tried to play yesterday - not at this stage anyway. Will be interesting to watch his development throughout the season.