Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch

What was interesting about Havertz yesterday is that he played in the left 8 zone, namely the left halfspace or lane 2. Seems like Arteta instructed him to run into space with players looking to find him more. Seeing him operate there already is quite interesting, and if he can build cohesion out on that left hand side with Martinelli, Nelson, Rice, Zinchenko, we have something more for opposition teams to think about.

I expect him to find his feet on our right hand side, and at times upfront as well. He knows those areas and finds himself there most time.

Interesting signing this, if it clicks he will do very well I feel.
 
Sorry, I wasn't meaing you directly when commenting about writing him off.

He'll have that left 8 role in mind for him, for that I have no doubt, but he'll also needs to prove he's good enough for it through performances. He also does like players who are flexible like Trossard and Odegaard who allow him to change things tactically so he probably doesn't want to verbally define him into 1 specific role just now.
Ok now I understood why arteta said that. Havertz has all the talents hope he fulfil his potential with settled team around him with clear strategy.
 
Back in the 80s you only got to read about pre season games in the paper a day after they happened. So much better that than now where people start making sweeping judgements about players after 45 minutes.

I don't rate Havertz at all, but 45 minutes in pre- season is not going to tell you much. Saw the same with Mount against Leeds
 
Arteta s comments seems weird. Time will tell where he fits in. Is he arteta signing or your board pushed havertz into him?

The way we work currently, Board has almost no involvement on suggesting players. The signings are either Arteta driven or Edu driven.
Even within them there is clear distinction, anyone planned to perform immediately needs to have complete Arteta buyin like Jorginho/Trossard/Jesus/Zinchenko.
Then there could be low price punts taken by Edu like Marquinous/Lokonge/Tavares/Martinelli. Of those Martinelli exploded others are meh but we would still get return on investment.
All of Havertz/Timber/Rice have to be Arteta signings and it was also reported as such. And the role also being reported was LCM. He basically replaces Xhakha although not like for like.

This transfer does baffles me. Its a high cost gamble with little to no upside. Could have been understandable at 25m but at 65m is insane. Both Westham/Chelsea have taken us to the cleaners and all the hardwork done over past few years can easily be undone with just those 2 signings if they don't work.
 
What was interesting about Havertz yesterday is that he played in the left 8 zone, namely the left halfspace or lane 2. Seems like Arteta instructed him to run into space with players looking to find him more. Seeing him operate there already is quite interesting, and if he can build cohesion out on that left hand side with Martinelli, Nelson, Rice, Zinchenko, we have something more for opposition teams to think about.

I expect him to find his feet on our right hand side, and at times upfront as well. He knows those areas and finds himself there most time.

Interesting signing this, if it clicks he will do very well I feel.

You lot will get steamrolled a lot with a midfield three of Rice, Havertz and Odegaard. I cannot see him working in a lot of games as an 8. Against low block teams, certainly, but in tight competitive games, just can’t see it working. And in the PL that is literally the top 12-14 at this point. He doesn’t have the work rate, pressing, legs or physicality to make that work. I think he’s going to end up on the bench more often than not, providing rotation and depth for the 10,9,7 and 11 positions. I’d say he’s far from guaranteed to even start. Which is nuts at 65m.

With time maybe he can develop into a viable 8., but it’s going to take time. If he does play there for you, I think it’ll make Arsenal more of a threat going forwards, but I think on the defensive transition, you’ll be caught out a lot. Can’t see Havertz tracking runners and getting back with any sense of reliability. I do genuinely think he’s been signed for that same role as Mount has been at United, to be a dynamic, forward thinking 8 on the left side. But he’s not the same player as Mount at all, and at first glance it seems a role he’s really not suited to.

It’ll be interesting to watch how Arteta uses him. At worst I think he gives the club more quality in depth across 3-4 positions, which is more important than most people want to acknowledge. But at the price point, you’d expect someone tailored made for a specific role.

Vis a vis Rice. Lots of people talking about the price, but that’s one that I take no issue with. Arsenal have picked themselves up one of the best midfielders in the league in Rice. So underrated by many on here. He’s absolutely top class, and while expensive as feck, he’ll have a huge impact on the team for a long time.
 
He doesn’t have the work rate, pressing, legs or physicality to make that work.
That is true he doesn't have all the above so we shall see how he adapts to Arteta's tactic. However, neither Xavi nor Iniesta have these either, although not saying Havertz is anywhere close to these two as a player.
 
You lot will get steamrolled a lot with a midfield three of Rice, Havertz and Odegaard. I cannot see him working in a lot of games as an 8. Against low block teams, certainly, but in tight competitive games, just can’t see it working. And in the PL that is literally the top 12-14 at this point. He doesn’t have the work rate, pressing, legs or physicality to make that work. I think he’s going to end up on the bench more often than not, providing rotation and depth for the 10,9,7 and 11 positions. I’d say he’s far from guaranteed to even start. Which is nuts at 65m.

With time maybe he can develop into a viable 8., but it’s going to take time. If he does play there for you, I think it’ll make Arsenal more of a threat going forwards, but I think on the defensive transition, you’ll be caught out a lot. Can’t see Havertz tracking runners and getting back with any sense of reliability. I do genuinely think he’s been signed for that same role as Mount has been at United, to be a dynamic, forward thinking 8 on the left side. But he’s not the same player as Mount at all, and at first glance it seems a role he’s really not suited to.

It’ll be interesting to watch how Arteta uses him. At worst I think he gives the club more quality in depth across 3-4 positions, which is more important than most people want to acknowledge. But at the price point, you’d expect someone tailored made for a specific role.

Vis a vis Rice. Lots of people talking about the price, but that’s one that I take no issue with. Arsenal have picked themselves up one of the best midfielders in the league in Rice. So underrated by many on here. He’s absolutely top class, and while expensive as feck, he’ll have a huge impact on the team for a long time.

Yes, I do think you are right about Havertz. Think he has a role to play but more as a sub at this stage. Giving us a different option to come on later in games and create. Or start in games where the level of physicality isn’t as high and the opposition transition strength isn’t as strong.

Also, don’t rule out his move to the right 8 role, allowing Odegaard to move to left 8, or even Saka moving into midfield with Havertz taking up the RW position. The fluidity in our play is there and we can see such in game movements happening, adding more dynamics to our play.

The starting three for me would be Rice, Partey and Odegaard. It has enough strength, energy and ball retention ability to allow us to compete both technically and physically against teams in the PL. Teams that will look to make it a tight, physical, transition game against us (think Everton vs Arsenal last season).

But Havertz will be expected to track runners and drop deeper, interchanging with our midfielders to provide an extra option in our build up phase, as we see with Odegaard. We wanted Mount first as you rightfully say, that ability to move into spaces occupied by both 6s and 8s.

Where I do see a more attacking left 8 come in, is when field a completely defensive back 4 and then it into a defensive 5 with Rice. Think Partey inverting from right back, into a double pivot with Rice. With a back 3 of Gabriel-Saliba-White. Here we have an even profile split (5 attackers 5 defenders) allowing someone like Havertz a bit more freedom to focus on finding pockets of space for himself and others, along with the rest of the attacking 5.

The main takeaway for us is that we now have options in our team that allows us to play differently, but also field different player combinations as well.
 
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It's not his fault Arsenal paid 65 million pounds. He'll be a big big flop and I'm happy for that, but feel sorry for him.
 
I wonder what Arteta buying a player who had already failed to live up to expectations in the EPL already. I believe in buying a player on the up or someone who already attained a consistent high level.
 
It's not his fault Arsenal paid 65 million pounds. He'll be a big big flop and I'm happy for that, but feel sorry for him.

"He'll be a big flop and I'm happy for that" :)

Its always hilarious to see certain rival fans be so salty about a player that doesnt really deserve all the attention.

That said, I do think Kai has a lot he would want to prove this season, and Im happy he is at Arsenal to do that. He'll get the time he needs to settle in and build his rhythm. And hopefully, we get the Leverkussen version of our boy back.
 
"He'll be a big flop and I'm happy for that" :)

Its always hilarious to see certain rival fans be so salty about a player that doesnt really deserve all the attention.

That said, I do think Kai has a lot he would want to prove this season, and Im happy he is at Arsenal to do that. He'll get the time he needs to settle in and build his rhythm. And hopefully, we get the Leverkussen version of our boy back.

First time a coach is going to play him as he played for us since he left Leverkusen. People measure him in goals but those were a byproduct of great midfield performances in his Bundesliga years.

If he succeeds, this thread will become a real gem
 
"He'll be a big flop and I'm happy for that" :)

Its always hilarious to see certain rival fans be so salty about a player that doesnt really deserve all the attention.

That said, I do think Kai has a lot he would want to prove this season, and Im happy he is at Arsenal to do that. He'll get the time he needs to settle in and build his rhythm. And hopefully, we get the Leverkussen version of our boy back.

Have you seen their posts? Nuffy of the highest order.
 
I don't believe that is right, it was reported that his Chelsea contract was matched by Arsenal.

Ornstein reported he was on over 300K at Chelsea. He didn't start out on that much so my guess is his role in the CL win activated a bigger salary for him. Good for him if he's managed to convince Arsenal to pay him that much from get go.
 
It's only right if its opposition players being quoted inflated wages, not if its your own.

Hopefully he delivers more than Sancho, otherwise that's a stick that we can't use to beat them with anymore. Similar price and wages.
 
Hopefully he delivers more than Sancho, otherwise that's a stick that we can't use to beat them with anymore. Similar price and wages.
Havertz was already Chelsea's Sancho. Arsenal are the team that paid big money and wages to take him off Chelsea's hands, so I don't know what that makes Arsenal.
 
All this because he mishit a few volleys in a silly pre-season challenge? He even hit the woodwork a few times.

I want him to fail as much as the next guy, but let’s judge him on actual football matches, shall we?
 
Odd signing, made even odder when you consider he's likely Xhaka's replacement. Very happy for Arsenal to take this risk.
 
Havertz was already Chelsea's Sancho. Arsenal are the team that paid big money and wages to take him off Chelsea's hands, so I don't know what that makes Arsenal.

I must have missed Sancho scoring the winner for United in the CL.
 
All this because he mishit a few volleys in a silly pre-season challenge? He even hit the woodwork a few times.

I want him to fail as much as the next guy, but let’s judge him on actual football matches, shall we?

But it's more fun when we post outlandish things in preseason!
 
All this because he mishit a few volleys in a silly pre-season challenge? He even hit the woodwork a few times.

I want him to fail as much as the next guy, but let’s judge him on actual football matches, shall we?

At least it's rival fans posting his training fails this time. Remember when Liverpool fans got so rattled by the Nunez banter that they started posting videos of him in training.
 
It's not his fault Arsenal paid 65 million pounds. He'll be a big big flop and I'm happy for that, but feel sorry for him.
"He'll be a big flop and I'm happy for that" :)

Its always hilarious to see certain rival fans be so salty about a player that doesnt really deserve all the attention.

That said, I do think Kai has a lot he would want to prove this season, and Im happy he is at Arsenal to do that. He'll get the time he needs to settle in and build his rhythm. And hopefully, we get the Leverkussen version of our boy back.
Please read again what I wrote before misjudging. I'm happy because he's at Arsenal, and I want Arsenal to fail. I'm sorry for him, because the price tag is not his fault.
 
I must have missed Sancho scoring the winner for United in the CL.
Good point - if poorly performing players scoring a one off important goal justifies large outlay on them then Edu is presumably preparing to offer a £331k a week contract to Eder too.
 
Good point - if poorly performing players scoring a one off important goal justifies large outlay on them then Edu is presumably preparing to offer a £331k a week contract to Eder too.

I imagine every Chelsea fans would do the transfer all over again for that goal alone, regardless of how he has not lived up to the hype.

Can't imagine that there's a single United fan who would do the Sancho transfer all over again.
 
I imagine every Chelsea fans would do the transfer all over again for that goal alone, regardless of how he has not lived up to the hype.

Can't imagine that there's a single United fan who would do the Sancho transfer all over again.

He will always be remembered for that goal. He did the same thing in the Club World Cup. Although nowhere near the prestigious tournament, it was our first time winning it.
 
I imagine every Chelsea fans would do the transfer all over again for that goal alone, regardless of how he has not lived up to the hype.
How is that relevant to Arsenal though? It's perfectly understandable for the fans of a club to overlook 3 years of underperformance for delivering the finishing touch on one iconic moment.

The club that is signing him afterwards shouldn't be overlooking his three years of underperformance. To say that he scored a (fairly straightforward) finish in an important match justifies Arsenal shelling out a large transfer fee and astronomical wage is strange logic to me.
 
Lets not write him off in an Arsenal shirt yet...

However it has always looked an odd move, so its one of the more interesting signings to watch next season just to see how/where Lego Pep is going to play him.