He never recovered from that howler against leeds. His confidence totally shattered to bits. Subsequent injury he suffered,tuchel sacking and his contract situation. Every thing went against him.
Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
Varies player to player.
Saka is on 200k with bonuses takes it to 300k. Jesus also on 200k with bonuses to take it to 265k. Even Saliba/Rice/Odegaard will be on 200k with bonuses will be in between 250k-300k on their new deals.
If someone asks for a higher base salary the bonuses will be lower or atleast harder to reach. The only thing reported by British media on Havertz is he will be on minimum 220k. This is the minimum guarantee even if any of the bonuses does not kick in so the base salary will be lower than this.
When they talk about bonuses, they are not talking performance bonuses. It also includes loyalty bonus, image rights. So by default players wages will be much higher than base wages.
Look at Pogba, he was on 144k, and his complete package was around 290k. These are not even complicated bonuses, it's the basic you expect in any deal.
Ohh thats pretty detailed info. I don't think such info is available for any arsenal player. Saka being the most documented is on 200k and with bonuses on 300k.
Also general practice now is that there is no CL bonus but that is actually part of base salary. If the team does not qualify there is a salary cut. Loyalty bonus is also something that i haven't seen for any Arsenal player. There would be performance related bonuses although those could be some easier to reach and some tougher to reach.
Not saying what you mentioned wouldn't be the case but such detailed info not available for our players. Atleast I haven't seen.
Loyalty bonus is not a new thing, it's there from years and possibly decades. They will get loyalty bonus for completing each year on the contract.
You won't see detailed breakdown anywhere, only reason this is available was because of football leaks which isn't available anymore.
Ok thanks.
Then if true then 330k for Havertz is absurd money. Basically 140m-150m commited over the length of the contract if all addons and bonuses achieved.
The most intriguing transfer so far for me. The way the media in general are so positive about him astounds me to be honest. He just looks like a good player with no outstanding qualities.
Are all the salaries reported for ManUtd
like Sancho at 350k, Antony at 200k and DDG at 375k are these base salary or including everything.
If Arsenal play
Rice
Odegaard - Havertz
then I’m going to bet that last season was just a fluke.
Casemiro
Bruno - Mount
has way more defensive stability.
Rice
Odegaard - Havertz
then I’m going to bet that last season was just a fluke.
Casemiro
Bruno - Mount
has way more defensive stability.
Defense wasn't really your problem though, plus I'm sure we'd set up tactically so we don't get overrun, inverting Timber or Zinchenko alongside Rice.
Sure when you had xhaka & partey - now both players defensive ability is replaced by Rice. Havertz wont add anything. Rice is my favorite outside united player, but he cant do a 2 mans defensive job. The stability you had last year was already created by white & zinchenko - so their defensive contribution was already part of the equation. Its like me saying that Wan Bissaka in midfield will make up for Kane's lack of defensive contribution when we actually lose defensive ability from replacing Weghorst with kane, where wan bissaka plays wont change that - just provide a formation based balance to that loss. AWB maybe covering more as a Cdm, but then we do lose some of that protection he gave as a fullback. Likewise with Mount, he will provide more defensive ability than Eriksen but we might lose some central creativity (why i think ten hag went for mount because the difference wouldnt be too big either ie a more creative fred).
Anyway, this maybe why i see Arsenal linked to players like Tchouamani, Now him & Rice would be a totally different story.
Yup, exactly
Starting shapes are just that, they are good for the line up on the tv screen at the beginning of the match.
The real stability comes from the profiles on the pitch and the space they cover, particularly in possession or attack.
This is what Arsenal will look like, 2 of the front 5 and the rest defence.
-------Havertz-----Odegaard
-------Zinchenko---Rice
---Gabriel-----Saliba------White
Or
-------Havertz-----Odegaard
----------Rice---------Partey
----Gabriel---Saliba---White
Or
------Havertz-----Odegaard
----------Rice---------Timber
-----Gabriel--Saliba---White
Or
--------Havertz----Odegaard
-----------Partey----Lavia
-----Tierney---Kiwior----Timber
..etc...
And if both Xhaka and Party remain, which seems a possibility. You have further depth and rotation in the above shapes.
Is it true that Arsenal made him the highest-paid player on the team?
For me, Havertz is a rather peculiar player. After watching him play in the Premier League for 2-3 years, for me, it's evident that he often lacks crucial aspects of his game.
As a striker, he does possess technical gifts actually. However, he struggles with consistent ball control, has difficulty dribbling, is ineffective in the box, and is really poor when it comes to shielding the ball. It's rather easy to dispossess him, and I never have confidence in his ability to hold the ball or withstand opponent pressure. He frequently misfires, which is one of the main reasons why his former team had a low scoring record. Let's don't cloud the judgement by his impressive performances at Leverkusen, after watching him in over 50-100 games in England, the occasional good match or odd header goal cannot conceal his overall struggles in the Premier League. That's why some Chelsea fans are actually pleased to see him move elsewhere, as they cannot imagine being stuck with him as the main choice for the striking position for many more years.
As a false nine, he performs poorly.
As a winger, he would likely struggle due to difficulties in controlling and dribbling the ball in wider areas of the pitch.
As a advanced midfielder, I'm uncertain, as he barely able to create much with the ball and to function well for that role is asking even more 'complete' qualities from him
For me, Havertz is a rather peculiar player. After watching him play in the Premier League for 2-3 years, for me, it's evident that he often lacks crucial aspects of his game.
As a striker, he does possess technical gifts actually. However, he struggles with consistent ball control, has difficulty dribbling, is ineffective in the box, and is really poor when it comes to shielding the ball. It's rather easy to dispossess him, and I never have confidence in his ability to hold the ball or withstand opponent pressure. He frequently misfires, which is one of the main reasons why his former team had a low scoring record. Let's don't cloud the judgement by his impressive performances at Leverkusen, after watching him in over 50-100 games in England, the occasional good match or odd header goal cannot conceal his overall struggles in the Premier League. That's why some Chelsea fans are actually pleased to see him move elsewhere, as they cannot imagine being stuck with him as the main choice for the striking position for many more years.
As a false nine, he performs poorly.
As a winger, he would likely struggle due to difficulties in controlling and dribbling the ball in wider areas of the pitch.
As a advanced midfielder, I'm uncertain, as he barely able to create much with the ball and to function well for that role is asking even more 'complete' qualities from him
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How havertz performed? Did he play in midfield or striker/second striker?
How did he play? Like he always does. We've conned them, we've absolutely conned them.
We've given them a one paced, positionally problematic player and it will take them months to work out his best position. Which is on the bench. Their season will be over by that stage, quote me on that.
So you paid £6 to watch as a Chelsea fan then?
Such a nothing player. £330k per week 
I'd imagine as a Chelsea fan he's already watched him enough to form an opinion without paying to watch the friendlies.
I mean, if we go by today's match, we'll be relegated with less than 10 points.
Bang average, not sure what Arsenal were thinking here. I bet Boehly couldn't believe his luck when they submitted that bid.
It’s cheaper than £65m.
Yeah Pre-Season (especially early pre season) is irrelevant.
We were playing brilliantly in last year's pre season then lost our first two games. Same happened under Van Gaal.
With that said, Havertz is average though.
If the football gods existed I wouldn't be waiting for a league title for god knows how many years.Please gods of Football, fulfill this man's prediction.
He played in the Xhaka role. He played 45 mins in a makeshift team, that at 1 point had Nketiah on 1 wing and Balogun on the other, and a 16 year old playing alongside him as attacking midfielder (who looked pretty good actually).
Yeah, I'd say that's not the best game to judge him, or anyone on.
Arteta said they'll have to wait and see where he fits in?
Obviously not true, I don't believe he'd sign a player without having an idea where he'd fit in, but what an odd thing to say.
On that note, I remember when we signed Lukaku, and someone legitimately started a thread asking what position Romelu Lukaku was going to play.
Obviously not true, I don't believe he'd sign a player without having an idea where he'd fit in, but what an odd thing to say.
On that note, I remember when we signed Lukaku, and someone legitimately started a thread asking what position Romelu Lukaku was going to play.
Keeping an eye on him as an alternative to saka for fpl. It’s probably not going to be worth it though.
He said when they signed him he's a midfielder, after watching him in training he's probably realised what a stupid idea it was
He’s such a passive player. Absolute contrast to Saka, Martinelli etc. Ambles along, no urgency, looks so disinterested. I’m surprised Arsenal went Hell for leather to sign him.
Havertz = most overrated player in the PL bar none
Tbf expectations are pretty modest.
At any rate, if he adds a 6 goal contribution AFTV will be saying that he is the signing of the season.
I think he is expected to be more of a left sided Odegaard than a like for like Xhaka replacement. But Odegaard and really all our players work their socks off most games. One thing supporters are not always appreciative of is really how much ground is being covered here. I hope he is not going to try to coast through, it will not go well. I am not sure we are too lightweight too now...I would feel a lot more comfortable keeping Partey around or even better we should go all out for Tchouameni.
Can he be overrated when most of the caf doesn't rate him?
We need to at least give him more than 3 training sessions and 45 mins in a pre season game to wash the Chelsea out of him ffs.
He's just building himself up for a MOTM performance next Saturday at the Met Life.
By the way did anyone see the goal we conceded, was comical!
Arteta s comments seems weird. Time will tell where he fits in. Is he arteta signing or your board pushed havertz into him?Can he be overrated when most of the caf doesn't rate him?
We need to at least give him more than 3 training sessions and 45 mins in a pre season game to wash the Chelsea out of him ffs.
He's just building himself up for a MOTM performance next Saturday at the Met Life.
Arteta says weird shit all the time, a lot of managers do. I doubt the board buys any major player without Arteta's say approval, such is the influence he'll have.
I don't think anyone thought Havertz would be able to be bought and dropped into a position he's rarely played for ages, with a new team after 3 training sessions and just nail it straight away.
I know fans don't have a lot of it just now but we might just have to be patient with him. Don't think anyone is denying it's a bit of a gamble considering his last couple of seasons, but let's not write him off after 45mins of pre season.
I am not talking about his performance but seems arteta not yet find him a perfect role as of now. Your Swift move for him in market made me think arteta already have a role in his mind. That interview suggested otherwise. So why I raised that question about board signing than arteta s wish.Arteta says weird shit all the time, a lot of managers do. I doubt the board buys any major player without Arteta's say approval, such is the influence he'll have.
I don't think anyone thought Havertz would be able to be bought and dropped into a position he's rarely played for ages, with a new team after 3 training sessions and just nail it straight away.
I know fans don't have a lot of it just now but we might just have to be patient with him. Don't think anyone is denying it's a bit of a gamble considering his last couple of seasons, but let's not write him off after 45mins of pre season.
Sorry, I wasn't meaing you directly when commenting about writing him off.
He'll have that left 8 role in mind for him, for that I have no doubt, but he'll also needs to prove he's good enough for it through performances. He also does like players who are flexible like Trossard and Odegaard who allow him to change things tactically so he probably doesn't want to verbally define him into 1 specific role just now.