Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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The pressure is on Lampard was always on ever since he became head coach for chelsea. He fulfilled club hierarchy's expectations last season. Hence he is backed fully by board in this summer window. It's upto him to perform with the players. I am sure he will be sacked if he failed miserably.
But what as a Chelsea fan witnessed Chelsea games from last season he will surprise many of you. That is my opinion. Yes pressure will be on him pretty sure but he will over come that through performances from him. We will see soon any way.
I'm looking at these Chelsea signings and I'm seeing a team on its way back towards the European top. The big question mark is the coach's ability to tie it all together.
I'm with Zehner on this one. The 80m + 20m euros has always been mentioned from the start of this saga. Also Chelsea seem to have wrapped it up without much fuss indicating they've agreed to pay what was asked. I think this is PR strategy by Chelsea to reduce the pressure on Lampard and also Havertz so stop a Kepa situation again.
I'm more inclined to believe German sources on the fee rather than a likely Chelsea briefing to press which all UK sources are going by.
I'm more inclined to believe German sources on the fee rather than a likely Chelsea briefing to press which all UK sources are going by.
If he really develops into a worldclass player at Chelsea, he most likely won't be there after 2024.All these pompous butthurt Bayern fans
You'd think Chelsea kidnapped Havertz or something. Dude had a choice to stay at Leverkusen and wait for his ‘German dream’ Bayern, he chose to leave. STFU and move along. Dear the gods, now you're waiting to get him on the free...from Chelsea!
We sold Courtois with one yr left on his contract, who went AWOL a week before the season started for £35m. That's still probably top 5 most expensive Goalkeepers of all time. Oh yeah we bought Courtois for £7m. Those are the only high profile outgoings another team has forced our hands to make in the last 15yrs.
You've got 17 feeders clubs in your league, Chelsea ain't and will never be one. Unless you steal all the TV revenue your subpar league can muster to throw at him, then Marina might probably notice you.
It's really that easy.
Either Real, Barca or Bayern (since he's a German player) will seriously go after him and get him. Chelsea will be forced to sell him, if he doesn't want to extend his contract.
Chelsea just isn't a club that international players see as "end destination". Cold, hard reality.
Sure but so what?
If we get 4 years of performances good enough to warrant the international big boys (Barca, Bayern or Real Madrid) signing him, I'd take that.
No Chelsea fans regret signing Hazard and I bet no Man United fans regret signing Ronaldo, despite them doing exactly what you said and moving to an "end destination club for international players".
Hazard was there for ages wasnt he?
Chelsea seem to hold on to their players for a great period of time except when a questionable sale is made.
Weird how so many here are obsessed with what might happen in 5 years time. Is this whole forum going to talk about Sancho going to Real Madrid in 5 years time when he signs for United? Don't think so.
If Havertz becomes the player his talent suggests he will and the rest of our team gels, he'll have no reason to want to leave. We'll be challenging for the biggest trophies. Despite what some are saying in here, Chelsea isn't Tottenham or Dortmund where we have a long history of selling players once they "outgrow" the club. We regularly win titles and trophies. In the last 15 years we've sold a grand total of 2 players against our wishes and still extracted maximum value for those. We aren't a "stepping stone" club at all. Hazard had a dream of playing for Real Madrid since he was a child and gave us 7 years. Courtois had a young child in Madrid and wanted to leave to be with her.
And I also think we can rule out Bayern until they prove they're willing to spend silly money on any player. Isn't the highest they've ever gone around 60m? They aren't a club who spend 100m or more on a player. If he ever moves it's only to Real Madrid.
If Havertz becomes the player his talent suggests he will and the rest of our team gels, he'll have no reason to want to leave. We'll be challenging for the biggest trophies. Despite what some are saying in here, Chelsea isn't Tottenham or Dortmund where we have a long history of selling players once they "outgrow" the club. We regularly win titles and trophies. In the last 15 years we've sold a grand total of 2 players against our wishes and still extracted maximum value for those. We aren't a "stepping stone" club at all. Hazard had a dream of playing for Real Madrid since he was a child and gave us 7 years. Courtois had a young child in Madrid and wanted to leave to be with her.
And I also think we can rule out Bayern until they prove they're willing to spend silly money on any player. Isn't the highest they've ever gone around 60m? They aren't a club who spend 100m or more on a player. If he ever moves it's only to Real Madrid.
It shouldn't matter. No club expects players to sign and play until retirement. There is always a huge number of player movement, if Havertz leave after 3-4 years then Chelsea will sign whoever they can at that time. They won't be losing sleep over it.
Is it just me or does he look a bit...dodgy?
Sort of bloke you'd expect to see on page 25 of The Sun for stalking Paris Hilton and being caught masturbating into her sock.
Also why do all Chelsea players have the same hairstyle?
Sort of bloke you'd expect to see on page 25 of The Sun for stalking Paris Hilton and being caught masturbating into her sock.
Also why do all Chelsea players have the same hairstyle?
Deliberately reduce the fee by 20m just to reduce some silly pressure on the manager? By such a shrewd negotiator? Every club keeps feeding the nonsense that their young player is as good as one of the game greats, and tries to keep adding millions to the player’s actual worth. No sensible club would downplay their asset.
Would Ed ever say that Greenwood’s valuation is just 40m to ease the pressure on Ole? If it was up to him, he’d shoot it up to 120m.
That I agree with. They aren’t in the same league as the Bayerns, Barcas and Madrids. Not yet, anyway.
You should hear him talk lmfao best terminator impression ive seen in a while
A "stepping stone" club is one who regularly gets their best players poached by the elite clubs. Clubs that basically get bullied into selling like Dortmund, Spurs, or Arsenal. That never has been the case with Chelsea and likely never will be with Abramovich in charge.
All the indications point to the contrary. Chelsea themselves labelled him their record signing. I don't know if you're a Chelsea fan wanting to believe they made a bargain or a United fan who hopes the evaluation of Havertz at around 80m € would improve your chances for Sancho but in both cases you're clutching at straws.
I mean, the reports you choose to believe speak of an initial fee of 71m pound with unspecified add ons whereas the German sources report 72m pound with specified add ons. It's not like the reported sums are miles apart, we're speaking of 1m. There's really not much to discuss here.
Why are people talking about what may happen in five years time? They have only just signed him.
Five years is a lot of time. Maybe he wanted to go to Bayern now, but that doesn't mean he will want to go after five years. He may end up loving life in London and at Chelsea, so why would he want to leave if that happens?
Even if they do lose him at the end of the contract, who's to say they don't sign someone better to replace him, anyway?
Five years is a lot of time. Maybe he wanted to go to Bayern now, but that doesn't mean he will want to go after five years. He may end up loving life in London and at Chelsea, so why would he want to leave if that happens?
Even if they do lose him at the end of the contract, who's to say they don't sign someone better to replace him, anyway?
Because chelsea earns zero revenue.
Right?
Chelsea are the most successful English club of the last decade with 11 major honours.
1. Chelsea: 11 major trophies (3x Premier Leagues, 4x FA Cups, 2x Europa Leagues, 1x Champions League and 1x League Cup)
2. Manchester City: 10 major trophies (4x Premier Leagues, 4x League Cups and 2x FA Cups)
3. Manchester United: six major trophies (2x Premier Leagues, 2x League Cups, 1x FA Cup and 1x Europa League)
In the previous decade (2000-2010) it was of course United, but with Chelsea close behind.
1. Manchester United: 10 major trophies (5 Premier Leagues, 1 FA Cup, 1 Champions League, 3 League Cups)
2. Chelsea: 8 major trophies (3 Premier Leagues, 3 FA Cups, 2 League Cups)
3. Arsenal: 5 major trophies (2 Premier Leagues, 3 FA Cups)
The idea that Chelsea isn't seen as one of the worlds top clubs is nonsense basically. Today's young players grew up with Chelsea competing in the final stages of the Champions League every year, challenging for the PL most years, and having some of the top players in the world playing for us year in year out. Very few top players have left us because they wanted a 'bigger' club, the only two I can think of that left under those circumstances were Robben to Real back in 2007 and of course Hazard to Real last year.
Sadly Real do still have that superstar glamour for many players which allows them to poach from basically any club on earth other than Barca, but Chelsea are not a club that lose their best players very often. Clubs can't financially out-muscle us, we have a great reputation and processes for making players feel at home and welcome, and we routinely challenge for the highest honours.
If Havertz leaves in 5 yrs time and during that time he plays incredible and helps us win stuff, then i'll wave him on his merry way and say thanks for the mega money we sell him for. Because he wont be sold for peanuts if thats the case
People forget Hazard was considered one of the leagues best players, if not the best, and we managed to keep him for 7 yrs. I'll take that with Havertz
People forget Hazard was considered one of the leagues best players, if not the best, and we managed to keep him for 7 yrs. I'll take that with Havertz
What if he runs his contract down and leaves for free?
We bought Hernandes from Athletico last summer for 80m.
He is going to be fantastic IMO, can see him being tried out as a striker too, hate the chavs mind you, but they have bought well this summer.
Chelsea are not in the highest tier of elite clubs in Europe.
You can write a novel for all I care, but that won't change the fact that 99% of all football fans in Europe will always mention Real/Barca/Bayern/United as the true elite clubs (despite United having a down decade). Sometimes Liverpool, Juventus and Milan will be mentioned, too.
Chelsea's history and legacy just can't compare to that of the top tier clubs in the slightest. Even their success after Abramovitch took over just pales compared to that of Real/Bayern/Barca during that time.
It depends on the age of person surely? Kids now a days don't care about history... its who's winning now.
Players don't give a flying feck about storied history from 30, 40, or 50 years ago. Only supporters of those clubs do.
It's all about "what have you done lately." Chelsea have been one of Europe's elite clubs for 15 years now. Any player would tell you that.
And Real/Bayern/Barca are head and shoulders above all other teams in the most important European competition in the 21st century. Even in the last decade, if we only want to look at that.
There is simply not a single argument for Chelsea being in that kind of "elite club tier". Not recent success and certainly not history/legacy or the all-time trophy haul.
To me they've always been in the second tier with clubs like Atletico, PSG, Inter or Dortmund. Only slight difference is that they have more money than most of those clubs.
Like Arsenal won the transfer window last summer?
Did anyone say that? Didn’t they sign Pepe and Luiz? Hardly something people would brag about.
Its perspective though? Who's winning now, who has the top players.
Oh they did
No, I've outlined above, why they simply aren't in the tier of Real/Bayern/Barca.
Let's take a look at their CL success in the 21st century:
Real: 6 titles, 6 finals, 12 semifinals
Bayern: 3 titles, 5 finals, 10 semifinals
Barca: 4 titles, 4 finals, 10 semifinals
....
Chelsea: 1 title, 2 finals, 7 semifinals
Even if we only look at the past decade, it's a landslide victory for Real/Bayern/Barca:
Real: 4 titles, 4 finals, 8 semifinals
Bayern: 2 titles, 4 finals, 7 semifinals
Barca: 2 titles, 2 finals, 6 semifinals
....
Chelsea: 1 title, 1 final, 2 semifinals
How are Atletico and Dortmund in the same tier as Chelsea?
Funny you mention Bayern as they had like 4 trophy's pre 70's. Did we miss some sort of "stock up on 'istory" deadline where you needed to have a certain amount of trophies by a certain time to be allowed to grow as a club?
Wasnt barcas first in the 90s ?Funny you mention Bayern as they had like 4 trophy's pre 70's. Did we miss some sort of "stock up on 'istory" deadline where you needed to have a certain amount of trophies by a certain time to be allowed to grow as a club?
First CL but with Bayern i'm talking about trophy's full stop. I've just checked the accurate stats and before the 70's they had 7 trophy's and before the 60's only 2 so by the logic of some they wouldn't have been allowed the chance to grow if whatever allowed them to rise to the top happened 30-40 years later.
So where exactly are you putting United?
Bayern's first league title came in 1932. They already were a top team back then. Quickly afterwards WWII happened and German football was basically dead after the war. The allied forces disbanded all clubs and Bayern had to be founded once again. It took a while to get everything back on track (Bundesliga started in 1963), but Bayern soon became a dominating force once again, winning their next league title in 1969 and never looking back ever since.
As for the elite club status: I've perfectly outlined in a second post, why Chelsea just isn't in the category of Real/Bayern/Barca. Not even, if we only look at recent success.
In their case we also can't take a great history into account. They're a good club atm, that's about it though.
Imho United and Liverpool are something like the "stand-by teams" of tier one (Real/Bayern/Barca/United*/Liverpool*).
Those two have a great history, but United just didn't have as much success in Europe as the top 3 and Liverpool just really didn't have much success nationally these past 30 years.
Based on their legendary history and achievements in the league (United) and CL (Liverpool) I can't really exclude them from tier one though.
A few more dominant United and Liverpool seasons and I'll surely talk about them as "regular tier one members" again.
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This is where you lose credibility. Liverpool a standby team of tier one? That’s complete shite. They hadn’t won their own league in 30 years but apparently they're standby for tier one because they had a good run in the 70s/80’s? It’s nonsense. Any players who personally remember any period of Liverpool dominance are likely already retired or close to.
It’s one thing to talk about historically big clubs, but quite another to assume being historically relevant means you get a permanent place in or around the top tier of today’s world football.