Lock them up. All 19 of them!
Donald Trump - GUILTY!
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
And the Rays are winning!
Great night all around.
Great night all around.
Would have put money on it being Meadows.
There isn't just one unindicted co-conspirator. There are 30. Twitter is identifying many of them now. The GA Lieutenant Governor is #8. Seems like Lin Wood is a snitch. He’s named in this one. He’s cooperating in Jack Smith’s case (we can be pretty certain), but he’s fecked here.
Snitches are heroes in this instance.
I may have been referring to the wrong case but I have to take credit for calling this months ago.
Undoubtedly.
Is it a RICO?
If so, what an irony!!
Rudy G was one of the early pioneers of the RICO and used it to convict the New York Crime Families as well as Wall street criminals - Milken and Boesky (inspired the movie Wall Street).
It baffles me how he went from brilliant prosecutor to a complete nut job conspirator.
How Guilliani pioneered the use of RICO (Source: Reddit)
Giuliani’s fight against organized crime needs to be understood in terms of his innovative use of RICO, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (18 USC § 1961-1968).
In the 1950’s and 1960’s, especially when Bobby Kennedy’s Justice Department took organized crime as a public priority, the feds quickly found that they could easily arrest virtually any member of the mob they wanted, but they had enormous difficulty tying its leaders to the crimes of their underlings. See for example the Appalachian Meeting of 1957, in which some 60 bosses from various families were arrested and charged, but all their sentences for conspiracy to obstruct justice were overturned on appeal (note for later: before 1957 very few Americans believed the mafia even existed. J Edgar Hoover had even actively denied its existence, which suited the mob perfectly well). The problem was that traditional Anglo-American common law required more evidence for inchoate crimes than could be gathered, particularly in the face of the mafia’s code of silence.
Enter RICO, which passed in 1970. RICO allows prosecutors to bring charges against a member of an organization for the enumerated crimes committed by any other member of that organization. Importantly this means that bosses could now be charged for the crimes of the capos and soldiers. Throughout the 1980’s it was used very effectively to prosecute the mid and high level ranks, and did damage to the New York families. However many prosecutors remained wary of it for some time, given how new and potentially unwieldy it could be (the first RICO case came to trial in 1979, 9 years after its passage).
Thus, many high ranking bosses went untouched. But Giuliani realized that RICO’s definition of an organization could be extended. RICO defines a criminal enterprise very broadly and very extensively; it can contain factions of La Cosa Nostra, your grandmother’s bridge group, a labor union... just about any association of people, official or otherwise. Giuliani realized that the families were close enough in their cooperation with one another that they could all plausibly be tied together as one single criminal organization. The very concept of the mafia was itself an enterprise, and the bosses merely represented subdivisions of it. Most famously, eleven such leaders were tried together in the so-called “Commission Trial” (the Commission being the name of the panel of family leaders who periodically met to discuss business). Nine of the eleven were found guilty and sentenced to effective life sentences.
This was indeed a great blow, but its greatest impact on the subsequent power of the mafia was (arguably) indirect. The trial meant that RICO had finally reached its full potential (today it is perhaps the most powerful tool available to federal prosecutors). The mafia went even further underground than before, and generally abandoned any activity that would bring them unwanted attention (particularly public acts of violence). Ask any average American today if the mafia still exists and they will probably say no, or shrug at most. That is exactly the response the families want; to return to the days before the Appalachian Meeting when they were more of a scary bed-time story than a real threat. The Commission allegedly still meets, though nobody knows where or how often. From a legal perspective, Giuliani’s prosecutions are more laudable for the innovative use of RICO rather than for their impact on the mob.
Today, a variety of NYC public offices still work hard to fight the mob, albeit in a more regulatory manner. The Port Authority Police and the Waterfront Commission keep them out of the docks, the Business Integrity Commission keeps them out of waste management, and federal prosecutors still bring the occasional case (note in particular the creeping presence of corruption into the heating oil business over the last decade).
Sources:
Raab, Selwyn (2005). Five families: The Rise, Decline, and Resurgence of America's Most Powerful Mafia Empires
DeStefano, Anthony M. (2008). King of The Godfathers
Bernstein, Lee (2001). The Greatest Menace: Organized Crime in Cold War America
Reavill, Gil. (2013). Mafia Summit: J. Edgar Hoover, The Kennedy Brothers, and the Meeting That Unmasked the Mob
If so, what an irony!!
Rudy G was one of the early pioneers of the RICO and used it to convict the New York Crime Families as well as Wall street criminals - Milken and Boesky (inspired the movie Wall Street).
It baffles me how he went from brilliant prosecutor to a complete nut job conspirator.
How Guilliani pioneered the use of RICO (Source: Reddit)
Giuliani’s fight against organized crime needs to be understood in terms of his innovative use of RICO, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (18 USC § 1961-1968).
In the 1950’s and 1960’s, especially when Bobby Kennedy’s Justice Department took organized crime as a public priority, the feds quickly found that they could easily arrest virtually any member of the mob they wanted, but they had enormous difficulty tying its leaders to the crimes of their underlings. See for example the Appalachian Meeting of 1957, in which some 60 bosses from various families were arrested and charged, but all their sentences for conspiracy to obstruct justice were overturned on appeal (note for later: before 1957 very few Americans believed the mafia even existed. J Edgar Hoover had even actively denied its existence, which suited the mob perfectly well). The problem was that traditional Anglo-American common law required more evidence for inchoate crimes than could be gathered, particularly in the face of the mafia’s code of silence.
Enter RICO, which passed in 1970. RICO allows prosecutors to bring charges against a member of an organization for the enumerated crimes committed by any other member of that organization. Importantly this means that bosses could now be charged for the crimes of the capos and soldiers. Throughout the 1980’s it was used very effectively to prosecute the mid and high level ranks, and did damage to the New York families. However many prosecutors remained wary of it for some time, given how new and potentially unwieldy it could be (the first RICO case came to trial in 1979, 9 years after its passage).
Thus, many high ranking bosses went untouched. But Giuliani realized that RICO’s definition of an organization could be extended. RICO defines a criminal enterprise very broadly and very extensively; it can contain factions of La Cosa Nostra, your grandmother’s bridge group, a labor union... just about any association of people, official or otherwise. Giuliani realized that the families were close enough in their cooperation with one another that they could all plausibly be tied together as one single criminal organization. The very concept of the mafia was itself an enterprise, and the bosses merely represented subdivisions of it. Most famously, eleven such leaders were tried together in the so-called “Commission Trial” (the Commission being the name of the panel of family leaders who periodically met to discuss business). Nine of the eleven were found guilty and sentenced to effective life sentences.
This was indeed a great blow, but its greatest impact on the subsequent power of the mafia was (arguably) indirect. The trial meant that RICO had finally reached its full potential (today it is perhaps the most powerful tool available to federal prosecutors). The mafia went even further underground than before, and generally abandoned any activity that would bring them unwanted attention (particularly public acts of violence). Ask any average American today if the mafia still exists and they will probably say no, or shrug at most. That is exactly the response the families want; to return to the days before the Appalachian Meeting when they were more of a scary bed-time story than a real threat. The Commission allegedly still meets, though nobody knows where or how often. From a legal perspective, Giuliani’s prosecutions are more laudable for the innovative use of RICO rather than for their impact on the mob.
Today, a variety of NYC public offices still work hard to fight the mob, albeit in a more regulatory manner. The Port Authority Police and the Waterfront Commission keep them out of the docks, the Business Integrity Commission keeps them out of waste management, and federal prosecutors still bring the occasional case (note in particular the creeping presence of corruption into the heating oil business over the last decade).
Sources:
Raab, Selwyn (2005). Five families: The Rise, Decline, and Resurgence of America's Most Powerful Mafia Empires
DeStefano, Anthony M. (2008). King of The Godfathers
Bernstein, Lee (2001). The Greatest Menace: Organized Crime in Cold War America
Reavill, Gil. (2013). Mafia Summit: J. Edgar Hoover, The Kennedy Brothers, and the Meeting That Unmasked the Mob
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It’s like he’s suffering from syphilitic brain rot.
You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the fart on live tv
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The destruction of Rudy Giuliani accelerated with that creepy shit in the Borat movie. Unreal. I remember in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks thinking that Giuliani was what Dubya wished he could be, and thinking we’d have been better off if Rudy was President instead. That could still be true, but wow, what a fall from grace.
I hope Fani Willis refuses Giuliani’s inevitable offer to turn witness for the prosecution. I hope she take the little fish off the hook and fries all these big fish with their testimony.
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I'm surprised that Lindsey Graham's name has not been included on the list considering how many shenanigans he made about not wanting to cooperate or whatever. I really thought he would get the axe in this sries of indictments.
edit: Oh yes, Mehdi!
edit: Oh yes, Mehdi!
Re: Lindsey Graham - there are an additional 30 co-conspirators who have not been indicted and are assumed to be cooperating with the investigation
If he doesn’t win the presidency, he will die in prison.
For him, this is life and death.
For him, this is life and death.
Any idea when this one would go to court?
I feel like I've seen this movie. Is this the part he gathers everyone in one place to go through with his final act?
I think the Jan 6th Federal case will take priority. And they would be lucky to get that to court before the election.
"I can smell your burger"
There is no way he goes to prison. He deserves to, but it would upend the whole country to put a former president in prison.
Yes it'll be in a garden center.
The Trump campaign is paying the legal fees of the co-defendants in the federal cases. But they are only his bodyguard and a maintenance guy at his club. Two guys who are probably pretty easy to manipulate given they wont have the financial resources to pay for their own defense in a long running federal trial.
There are 18 co-conspirators in this Georgia case. Is the Trump campaign they really going to pay the legal fees for everyone?
There is no way that he can keep 18 people in line. Some will flip.
It never happens until it does.
I don't think his supports are ready for Civil War against the US Armed Forces.
It sounds like there's a good chance that he might be able to kick the case up to Federal Court. If so, this whole exercise may be for nothing. I'm pinning my hopes on the DC case despite the Ga case being a lot juicier.
Genuine question - does anyone else who is a public figure use Truth Social other than him? I'm not talking about people who work in his political circles but people who are recognisable in their own right.
In no way would the country be 'upended.'
Isn't it a rather longish shot trying to use a loophole to get it into fed court?
I think he has a much better shot this time around than he had in the NY case.
Brookings wrote a paper last November about the Ga case:
brief (see page 187).
They dismiss his chances but I don't find their argument all that convincing. At the very least it will be murkier than NY.
Yeah I really think that prospect will somehow cause riots in the country is exaggerated. It sells news stories but I honestly think 75% of the country won't give a feck and in some ways will be happy to put that shit show in the proverbial ground. Even some who support him because now they ll have a martyr.
Trump plus 18, for a total of 19 co-conspirators in Georgia. I agree that some will flip.
Four different courts next year. They will probably have a hard time fitting them all into the calendar.
One big problem is the jurors. If it happens that there is a Trump cult member among the jurors... But then again, the grand jury did not have such problems, so ... who knows what will happen...
Another problem is the Secret Service. Unfortunately, just the demands of the Secret Service place a lot of restrictions.
Someone could explain me the difference between a regular jury and a grand jury?
Thanks!
Even if he gets the case removed to federal court, they’re still state charges so he won’t have pardon power over it. It would still be tried by the DA and not DOJ. At best, I believe it could only get him a friendly judge.
Just received this email from the Trump Team…
The Truth About Fani Willis |
Radical Democrat Fani Willis Is Campaigning And Fundraising On Her Bogus Indictments Of President Trump Fani Willis Is A Democrat Activist
Willis Is Using The Trump Indictment To Fundraise And Campaign On The Eve Of Her Anticipated Indictment Of President Trump, Willis Launched Her New 2023 Re-Election Campaign Website To Take Maximum Advantage Of Her New-found Fame. “While the nation awaits the results of her office’s more-than-two-year investigation into alleged attempts by former President Donald Trump and his allies to overturn Georgia’s 2020 election results, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has launched a new fundraising website. On Thursday, Willis sent out an email to her supporters. ‘Friend, we wanted you to know first that our new website is up and ready for you to share with your friends and family,’ it said. ‘Sign up to volunteer, host an event, and continue to support the team! Thank you for your continued support to build a brighter future for Fulton County. With gratitude, Team Fani.’ Willis’ team launched the website as a Fulton County grand jury continues weighing whether to level charges or indictments against the nation’s 45th president.” (Atlanta News First, 8/10/23) Willis’s DA Office Leaked A Charging Sheet Against President Trump, Tainting The Jury Pool By Highlighting 13 Felony Charges, Before The Grand Jury Voted Or Any Charges Were Announced. “A two-page docket report posted to the Fulton County court website indicated charges against Trump including racketeering, conspiracy, and false statements. The appearance of the report set off a flurry of news media activity, but then the document vanished. A spokesperson for the district attorney said reports ‘that those charges were filed [are] inaccurate. Beyond that we cannot comment.’” (The Guardian, 8/14/23)
Fani Willis Bragged To Left-Wing Media Outlets About Her Efforts To Take Down Trump.
Willis Raised A Vast Majority Of Her Campaign Funds By Promoting Her Election Investigation On Social Media.
A Family Steeped In Hate
Fani Willis’s Investigation Has Been Compromised By Unethical Conduct And Political Bias.
Willis’s Investigation Lasted Over Two And A Half Years, Suspiciously Long, And Timed To Interfere With The 2024 Presidential Election.
An Earlier Grand Jury’s Foreman, Emily Kohrs Went On A Days-Long, Bizarre Media Tour Hinting At The Grand Jury’s Potential Criminal Indictment Of President Trump.
Willis Has A Troubling History Of Politically-Motivated Decisions.
Under Fani Willis, Violent Crime Exploded In Atlanta.
Willis Hid A Prior Relationship With A Member Of A Gang She Was Prosecuting Willis Was The Lawyer For A YSL Gang Co-Founder In 2019 In An Aggravated Assault Case. “Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has built a reputation as a tough-on-crime prosecutor eager to fill Atlanta prisons through sweeping indictments. But YSL Mondo, who co-founded the Young Stoner Life music crew with Young Thug in the early 2010s, tells Rolling Stone that the Fani Willis he sees on TV isn't the same woman who served as his defense attorney in 2019 during an aggravated assault case.” (RollingStone, 1/25/23) Mondo Said That Willis Was A “Great Attorney” And That They Shared A “Cool Relationship.” “Mondo says that Willis was a "great attorney" for him, getting his aggravated assault charge dropped to a lesser one and having him sentenced to "a program" in lieu of prison time. He says that even after his sentence, she worked to get him an early release from the program due to COVID. And beyond her casework, he says that the two shared a "cool relationship," with her being aware of his rap career and even using it in her defense. That's why the YSL indictment is surprising to Mondo. "That's not her character," he contends. "She's almost like, not really street, but she understands what goes on, bro. She understands life to a certain degree. She ain't trying to take all these little Black dudes down. She ain't that type of woman, man. I'm telling you, she's not.” (Rolling Stone, 1/25/23) Willis Was Accused Of Falsifying A Subpoena In 2022 In 2022, Willis Was Accused Of Prosecutorial Misconduct And Abuse Of Grand Jury Power. HEADLINE: “(Exclusive Details) Young Thug’s Lawyer Seeks To Have RICO Case Tossed On Technicality, Accuses DA Of Prosecutorial Misconduct, Abuse Of Grand Jury Power.’ (The Shade Room, 11/9/22) Willis Was Accused Of Filing ‘Sham’ And ‘Fake’ Grand Jury Subpoenas. ‘Young Thug‘s lawyers are looking to have his RICO case dismissed based on a technicality, accusing the district attorney of filing ‘sham’ and ‘fake’ grand jury subpoenas as the rap star continues to languish in Georgia’s Cobb County Jail, The Shade Room can exclusively report. Last Thursday (Nov. 3), Brian Steel of The Steel Law Firm, who is representing Thugger, filed a motion to dismiss all charges against their client on grounds of prosecutors abusing ‘it’s authority by utilizing a sham Grand Jury Subpoena.’” (The Shade Room, 11/9/22) |