Donald Trump - GUILTY!

Red in STL said:
I meant the peoples idea of what the first amendment protects is very different to what it actually does protect, in general it doesn't give you as many rights as the general population thinks it does

re: the rest that's fair enough
Click to expand...
Oh… yeah, lots of folks think it means freedom from any consequences for their speech, which is a dumb belief.
 
Carolina Red said:
Oh… yeah, lots of folks think it means freedom from any consequences for their speech, which is a dumb belief.
Click to expand...
A certain Florida resident is hopefully about to find out that he's a lot dumber than he thought he was!
 
Carolina Red said:
Per Schenk v. United States, “The clear and present danger test features two independent conditions: first, the speech must impose a threat that a substantive evil might follow, and second, the threat is a real, imminent threat.”

Her tweet does neither. She’s a raging idiot for posting it, but she has the right to do that.
Click to expand...

Mad that she does though. Or to a sharper point… The June Coup should have rendered a direct attack on a justice apparatus that’s investigating the act itself… as cause for removal.

American leans on these out of date statutes that were drafted without any idea that this current environment could ever exist.

‘The evil’ already has a stranglehold on 30-40% of your voting populace. The wolf is in the henhouse and the American argument is ‘Some old fecks said they should be allowed in here’.

Your country literally had a mass invasion of your point of central government by one side of your politics because they lost an election. Allowing folks that enabled that desecration to stay in office and criticise the investigators of those involved… evidence of a truly broken system.

It’s senseless to hide behind old law.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Mad that she does though. Or to a sharper point… The June Coup should have rendered a direct attack on a justice apparatus that’s investigating the act itself… as cause for removal.

American leans on these out of date statutes that were drafted without any idea that this current environment could ever exist.

‘The evil’ already has a stranglehold on 30-40% of your voting populace. The wolf is in the henhouse and the American argument is ‘Some old fecks said they should be allowed in here’.

Your country literally had a mass invasion of your point of central government by one side of your politics because they lost an election. Allowing folks that enabled that desecration to stay in office and criticise the investigators of those involved… evidence of a truly broken system.

It’s senseless to hide behind old law.
Click to expand...
I’d agree with you on Amendment 2, but not on Amendment 1.

Freedom of speech, press, protest, religion… those are fairly important and relevant in any era.
 
Carolina Red said:
I’d agree with you on Amendment 2, but not on Amendment 1.

Freedom of speech, press, protest, religion… those are fairly important and relevant in any era.
Click to expand...

That’s the problem though. They all stand alone as valid. Y’all hold up the constitution and their amendments as some all powerful document.

But I’d guess that 25%+ of your population voted for a party that promises to inject religious doctrine into the national ethos. Which flies in the face of it. You have elected officials injected their god into politics. Freely.

NONE of it works. Your country just pretends it does.

You don’t have freedom of protest, press, speech and religion to the extent that actual adult countries do (I am throwing huge stones from the glass house that is the Uk). But y’all drank the kool aid. You defend a point of position that’s broken to the point of meaningless.

I live in London. I know how fecked we are. But even right headed Americans hide behind things that have been trampled to death by goons for decades.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
That’s the problem though. They all stand alone as valid. Y’all hold up the constitution and their amendments as some all powerful document.
Click to expand...
I mean… the Constitution is the government. I don’t know what else it should be treated as.
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
But I’d guess that 25%+ of your population voted for a party that promises to inject religious doctrine into the national ethos. Which flies in the face of it. You have elected officials injected their god into politics. Freely.
Click to expand...
And the text of the 1st Amendment gives us a high ground to fight against that from.
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
You don’t have freedom of protest, press, speech and religion to the extent that actual adult countries do (I am throwing huge stones from the glass house that is the Uk).
Click to expand...
I’m not quite sure what that means. I mean, case in point, I’m free to talk about ongoing cases of certain footballers while you can’t without possibly being prosecuted.
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I live in London. I know how fecked we are. But even right headed Americans hide behind things that have been trampled to death by goons for decades.
Click to expand...
This post basically just seems like the usual “opportunity to rag on America!” that happens every once in awhile on here, so sure.
 
Carolina Red said:
I mean… the Constitution is the government. I don’t know what else it should be treated as.

And the text of the 1st Amendment gives us a high ground to fight against that from.

I’m not quite sure what that means. I mean, case in point, I’m free to talk about ongoing cases of certain footballers while you can’t without possibly being prosecuted.

This post basically just seems like the usual “opportunity to rag on America!” that happens every once in awhile on here, so sure.
Click to expand...

nah mate. My country is as fecked as yours. Hence the glass house and big rock line.

Your constitution WAS the government. It acted as guardrails and insurance against a lot. But it didn’t include provisions and protections for the internet and Trump and bad actors and fake news and the proliferation of it amongst gullible idiots. It’s outdated and largely useless in the modern age.

I don’t know where this idea that I can’t talk about legal cases comes from. I can. And do. Freely. I can’t do that freely on a private platform that has rules that I’ll happily obey. But I can speak it aloud, in a pub, or on other sites that don’t have those rules. You’re clearly a bright bunny rabbit, I’m sure you could find a scenario where freedom to discuss an ongoing legal case should be allowed in the public interest. Personally, I think it’s quite shitty to have legal cases prejudiced by the court of public opinion that’s not privy to all the facts. But, like I say, I’m sure our laws are found wanting often. They’re nothing like perfect.

My overarching point is that your country always seems hogtied by a document that was drafted in an era incomparable to modern life. Yet you still hoit up as scripture. It’s the biggest religion in America.

Outside looking in… it’s a relic. A sacred cow that stopped producing milk decades ago.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
nah mate. My country is as fecked as yours. Hence the glass house and big rock line.

Your constitution WAS the government. It acted as guardrails and insurance against a lot. But it didn’t include provisions and protections for the internet and Trump and bad actors and fake news and the proliferation of it amongst gullible idiots. It’s outdated and largely useless in the modern age.

I don’t know where this idea that I can’t talk about legal cases comes from. I can. And do. Freely. I can’t do that freely on a private platform that has rules that I’ll happily obey. But I can speak it aloud, in a pub, or on other sites that don’t have those rules. You’re clearly a bright bunny rabbit, I’m sure you could find a scenario where freedom to discuss an ongoing legal case should be allowed in the public interest. Personally, I think it’s quite shitty to have legal cases prejudiced by the court of public opinion that’s not privy to all the facts. But, like I say, I’m sure our laws are found wanting often. They’re nothing like perfect.

My overarching point is that your country always seems hogtied by a document that was drafted in an era incomparable to modern life. Yet you still hoit up as scripture. It’s the biggest religion in America.

Outside looking in… it’s a relic. A sacred cow that stopped producing milk decades ago.
Click to expand...
If the Constitution isn’t my government now, what exactly is my government?
 
Carolina Red said:
To be fair… that’s almost describing who created it in the first place.
Click to expand...

Not really fair. They were free market ghouls who read philosophy and had lived through the Enlightenment. Hard to compare with Ron de Santis or RFK jr.
 
Last edited:
Carolina Red said:
…and owned people.
Click to expand...

Yep. Them not being entirely good people doesn't mean they weren't operating on a different intellectual plane to most of your modern politicians. I suggest you look up what intellectuals in the Enlightenment period, rightly or wrongly, thought they were working towards.
 
TwoSheds said:
Yep. Them not being entirely good people doesn't mean they weren't operating on a different intellectual plane to most of your modern politicians. I suggest you look up what intellectuals in the Enlightenment period, rightly or wrongly, thought they were working towards.
Click to expand...
I was teasing. I’ve taught about the Founding Fathers and the Enlightenment a time or two.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
and bad actors and fake news and the proliferation of it amongst gullible idiots.
Click to expand...
Printing press. Bad actors and fake news is kind of the climate which precedes the american revolution (pamphlets and ideologoues for "fake" news, each attacking each other as much the same - "fake").

It upholds a free press clause, iirc, which I'm not sure the quantum constitution in Britain (it exists but it doesn't) has.

As for gullible idiots. Isn't that the point about the US. It restricted membership to congress based on land-ownership to exclude what rich people of the day thought were gullible idiots. Many of those rich people were themselves idiots, but that's capital for you.
 
I see the polls have Biden and Trump neck to neck. Despite all this stuff. +3 for Biden here +3 for Trump there. Until it goes national, after primaries, next year, it's still a very polarized nation despite whatever newsfeeds one looks at.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.