Donald Trump - GUILTY!

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Go on, then, tell me the consequences of Biden's quite factual statement. I'll give you a hint, the answer is there are none.

On the other hand, we have seen the consequences of Trump's months long operation to convince people that the democrats, Dominion's algorithm and other actors actively rigged the election so Joe Biden would win.
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It wasn't much of a factual statement at the time, was it? If I drive to the city centre 10 times under the influence of narcotics and I only have an accident once, it doesn't mean it was ok the 9 other times.

Not sure why people are boiling this down to tweets and blowing them out of proportion, like suddenly pretending that "fight" is only meant in the literally sense of arming yourself etc. The key question is if Trump had reasons to believe that his speech that day would incite people and result in catastrophic violence.
 
UncleBob said:
It wasn't much of a factual statement at the time, was it? If I drive to the city centre 10 times under the influence of narcotics and I only have an accident once, it doesn't mean it was ok the 9 other times.

Not sure why people are boiling this down to tweets and blowing them out of proportion, like suddenly pretending that "fight" is only meant in the literally sense of arming yourself etc. The key question is if Trump had reasons to believe that his speech that day would incite people and result in catastrophic violence.
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Whether it was factual or not is irrelevant. You are avoiding the question. What were the consequences of Biden's statement?
 
unchanged_lineup said:
And what is the point of this answer, in relation to, you know, things that people are actually talking about in this thread.

Does it mean it's acceptable in some way? Or that Trump didn't do the things he did?
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I certainly don't think so. But there's a lot of things happening in the states that I don't find acceptable.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
I certainly don't think so. But there are lots of everyones happening in this thread that I don't find acceptable.
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UncleBob said:
None yet?
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Yes, I'd told you that already.

Now, let's look at the consequences of Trump's repeated, relentless claims that the election was going to be and was stolen.



And if you need it, the following shows a clear timeline of how Trump laid the foundations for the insurrection by legitimizing groups that would later try to stop the certification of the Electoral College vote.

https://www.justsecurity.org/74138/...actions-leading-to-the-attack-on-the-capitol/
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Yes, I'd told you that already.

Now, let's look at the consequences of Trump's repeated, relentless claims that the election was going to be and was stolen.



And if you need it, the following shows a clear timeline of how Trump laid the foundations for the insurrection by legitimizing groups that would later try to stop the certification of the Electoral College vote.

https://www.justsecurity.org/74138/...actions-leading-to-the-attack-on-the-capitol/
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I'd forgotten about the Trump Army. Feck sake :lol:
 
It's like the argument clinic sketch , but instead of John Cleese you argue with Tommy Wiseau.
 
UncleBob said:
It wasn't much of a factual statement at the time, was it? If I drive to the city centre 10 times under the influence of narcotics and I only have an accident once, it doesn't mean it was ok the 9 other times.

Not sure why people are boiling this down to tweets and blowing them out of proportion, like suddenly pretending that "fight" is only meant in the literally sense of arming yourself etc. The key question is if Trump had reasons to believe that his speech that day would incite people and result in catastrophic violence.
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Jesus Christ lad.....yep Donald J Trump is well known for his subtle use of subtext in his meticulously planned public speeches. Give your fecking head a wobble mate
 
Ramshock said:
Jesus Christ lad.....yep Donald J Trump is well known for his subtle use of subtext in his meticulously planned public speeches. Give your fecking head a wobble mate
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:lol:
 
Ramshock said:
I think basically they are in a position where they are trying to whitewash what just happened.
They dont want to be known as supporters of fascists and traitors and are trying to downplay the whole thing.
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Or they’re just a fecking moron. Who really knows.
 
UncleBob said:
None yet?
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Would you say you're discussing honestly here? Cause I don't see how you can think there is an equivalence between Biden saying that Trump might try to steal the elections, without any calls to violence (metaphorical or not) and without tarring the GOP or GOP/Trump voters along the way; and Trump, who continuously said that Biden and the Democrats will try to steal the election, and constantly calling upon his supporters to fight this.

While I'm add it, I will add that Trump did actually try to steal the election (by suppressing votes in all kinds of ways) and openly spoke about the need to do so (saying that Republicans most suppress votes if they ever want to be voted into office again), while there is nothing similar from Biden's side. This further speaks to the lack of moral equivalency.

And finally, while you can say that Trump only ever spoke of violence metaphorically ('fight to stop the steal' in a non-physical way), using that language repeatedly and with insistence has the distinct possibility that people will take it literally. You can't shy away from that. And yes, that can be prosecuted. If someone would tweet 'we should kill Biden', they can be put on trial for inciting violence; and an excuse like 'I meant kill politically, by voting against him' won't fly. So why would it for Trump?
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Whether it was factual or not is irrelevant. You are avoiding the question. What were the consequences of Biden's statement?
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Actually, it is relevant. Everybody with a brain could foresee the attempted political theft and the needy grifting from Trump. It is part of the playbook he's followed all the time - accuse your adversaries of what you are planning to do yourself! He's executed it (nearly) to perfection. If GOP let him get away with it, he's salvaged his indebted fat ass while shitting on the institutions held dear by those who oppose his opportunistic, ultraegotistical worldview.

Reasoning with the uncle? I am not going there. But I applaud your and everybody elses effort. Hopefully somewhere out there there is a candidate for falling down the rabbit hole who just didn't lose his/her bearings after reading some of your responses. Hopefully...
 
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Odin said:
Actually, it is relevant. Everybody with a brain could foresee the attempted political theft and the needy grifting from Trump. It is part of the playbook he's followed all the time - accuse your adversaries of what you are planning to do yourself! He's executed it (nearly) to perfection.
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I think it might have been in this thread, but someone shared lately a Time article about the informal network (composed of left and right) who came together and stopped him from executing that plan fully. It was a close-run thing and would have been much more likely without their incredible effort to fight disinformation and help people vote.

Edit: found it
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
 
UncleBob said:
Didn't Joe Biden state, several times, that one of his biggest concerns was that Trump would try to steal the election?
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Biden stated that there was a threat a fascist would try to steal the election, primarily because Trump said he would, and to the surprise of no one he then did try to steal the election. No future prediction can be a fact as by definition it has not yet occurred. Trump said Biden tried to steal the election as a means for himself to steal an election.There’s no equivalence. One was a prediction (or a future certainty for any non idiot) while the other was a lie so as to perform the deed in which he was accusing his adversary of.
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway...

Just for the heck of it, for argument's sake, what could anyone in the world say or do to make enough GOP senators drop Trump and vote to convict him?

I'm going with, "provide incontrovertible proof he's a paedophile". And even then it'd probably be a close run thing.
 
calodo2003 said:
So close...



Here’s a non paywall...

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I call BS. Now I didn't see him in the hospital but he never appeared that sick. I think this is sensationalism.

I have seen 100s of Covid patients in ICU. They are not standing on their own.
 
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