Is a Maticmaker doing that thing where he argues in circles for pages while never actually addressing the key bits of the posts which makes his argument fall on its arse? Good times.
Donald Trump - GUILTY!
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
Probably. It's why I put him on ignore ages ago.
Its not the first time that's been leveled against me, but I beg to differ.
As in many aspects (if not all) of life, 'timing is everything' and Alvin Bragg knows this as much as any one.
Putting a former 'leader of the free world' on public trial for the first time, is a massive step, and which ever way you look at it will have repercussions, for those taking part in the present drama itself, as well as those that follow in the Office of President of the United States/Leader of the free World and for many beyond the US shores.
I can think of a few world leaders right now who must be 'pi**ing their pants, either in joy/hilarity, or in trepidation.
That happened when he was elected, everyone is over it now. Trump spending the rest of his days in court was inevitable and shouldn't surprise a soul.
Never experienced such before. It's quite something.
I’d call it banal and boring.
Its the 'first time' of'putting a former US President on trial that will be attracting attention this time, not his election, that will either find joy/hilarity or trepidation, with other World Leaders. The joy and hilarity will be them rubbing their hands waiting for the 'damaging' information that will be released to the public or the trepidation being ...if it can happen to a former President in the US, then it can happen any where... maybe to me!
Is he the same poster who got stuck on incorrect application of the term Coup and kept on going about it .
Being indicted & going to trial aren't exactly the same thing. We will see two different Trump trials begin (& quite possibly end) before we even see the NYC trial start in December. Who knows, we could probably see a plea deal on the NYC case.Amazing...! If you throw in that its a 'former US President' then at the 'umpteenth' time of asking, you have finally got it...well done
I was about to post the same thing.
100% A classic case of 'it sounds right, so it must be true'
As in many aspects (if not all) of life, 'timing is everything' and Alvin Bragg knows this as much as any one.
Putting a former 'leader of the free world' on public trial for the first time, is a massive step, and which ever way you look at it will have repercussions, for those taking part in the present drama itself, as well as those that follow in the Office of President of the United States/Leader of the free World and for many beyond the US shores.
I can think of a few world leaders right now who must be 'pi**ing their pants, either in joy/hilarity, or in trepidation.
You do realize that tons of world leaders throughout history have been arrested and jailed right? For example the former president of France was convicted of illegal campaign financing less than 2 years ago and Berlusconi has been inside a court room probably more times than he can count, so I doubt anyone is going to become more scared of being arrested just because Trump gets done.
Neither of them put a foot inside a jail. It is hard to remember if any post second war world western democratic leader went to jail, Certainly none of US/Canada/UK/France/Germany/Italy/Nordic countries/Spain/Portugal/Iceland/Netherlands/Belgium/Austria etc...
I might be wrong and memory might fail me. But I would really love to be wrong and see the story behind it and the balls on the country
Sarkozy put an appeal to avoid the original sentencing of one full year in prison, but I would be surprised if he escapes that.
José Sócrates (former Portuguese PM) was held in prison for nearly a year on preliminary charges of corruption and tax fraud.
Ehud Olmert (former Israeli PM) served time in prison for accepting bribes and for obstruction of justice.
My favorite examples are from South Korea though; that's the exemplary way of prosecutors not giving a feck about political status when indicting someone. Former presidents Park Geun-hye and Lee Myung-bak both served time for bribery.
People that are overly vocal about their hatred of him deep down like him.
Just like Twitter and all the networks. He moves the needle in a huge way.
Just like Twitter and all the networks. He moves the needle in a huge way.
Here’s a good summary of the 5 investigations focused on Trump and what he faces if convicted.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...-major-investigations-dozens-of-ways-out.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...-major-investigations-dozens-of-ways-out.html
I like the examples. Thanks. Allow me some "buts" though
- Sarkozy might or might no be sentenced in firm. But is already known that if it happens will be under house arrest, no jail
- Jose Socrates might be the only one that I would agree though he spend time in jail in detention and then house arrest while waiting for the trial, he was acquited of the case. Not sentenced. I am not discussing if it was fair or not. But that they don't sentence one of their own
- I don't consider Israel from the west. West ends when east starts and this eastern europe. Also, and that is my solely opinion. don't see how israel, with the appartheid model that they have, is a democracy
- Again when I was referring to western democracies, I was referring western, South Korea, is a democracy but Eastern and with way other values, like making pay shit loads of money to Samsungs heirs as inheritance taxes. different values, as I said that allows them in this case, prosecute their Ex-PM and not a chain of favours that saved Nixon and other MP's in Europe. They are all a unit and they protect them selves. Happily to see that south korea don't in this case
All in all, all these years and all these countries and frankly barely anything. No western countries, nothing in firm yet and definitely, non of the big players.
They are all friends and too entangled to put one of them in prison. Not only because others might fall, but for the reputation of the country that the one that was at the helm of the country was corrupt, meaning that the country was corrupt and all the deals, alliances, etc...would be tainted and jeopardized
Some politicians that comit crimes, are being criticized and push to trials etc... but behind the scenes, they play with time and people forgetting about it. They tell them, we will feck you over for a while but then we will not sentence you. For minor-middle politicians they might sentence them but if they do, is 2-3 years, and if it is 10-15 years, they only stay 2-4 years and then free
I see it everywhere in any western democracy
Trump will not see jail time. I really HOPE that I'll be wrong. They will kick the can down the road till he dies
Last edited:
Trump made more enemies than most and the US jail system is much less kind than most European ones, but you may be right. I think he'll spend a year or two inside before getting out on medical grounds.
Not in the US, otherwise this situation would not be unique.
This is why all the fuss, up to now the US has effectively pardoned all its former Presidents (whether they have needed such a pardon or not) but Trump is not being extended the same courtesy. If he does finish up going to jail, it will be a taboo broken for all time and all future Presidents will know what fate awaits them if they break the law whilst in office.
The question going forward is how will this affect how America is governed in the future... and for the rest of us, the US Leadership of the free World?
Its 'can of worms' that is being opened!
I don't know about a can of worms, but your post is a can of horseshit that I wish I never opened. You just make shit up as you go along. I don't think you have posted a single fact in any of your posts, just assumptions and feelings of something you clearly know feck all sbout.
Bravo for the consistency though.
Yeah I blocked him around then.
You make it sound like this is a bad thing.
Why is it a taboo? Should taboo's never be broken?
Aside from Nixon, which other former Presidents have been effectively pardoned and who did the pardoning?
There's a part of me that wants to peruse that saga.
Did you not see that one at the time? It was painful.
Was it in the 2020 Election thread? If so, it might have coincided with my brief sabbatical from posting.
To be honest, it felt like it was never going to end. You have to give it to him for consistency and stamina
It seems to start around here from a very brief search: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/don...chment-acquitted-in-the-senate.450772/page-71
To be honest, it felt like it was never going to end. You have to give it to him for consistency and stamina
And stupidity
He is hardly the first ex leader of a country to be put on trial though? Never mind, someone else said this too.
It might give future US presidents the luminous idea of not being criminals while in office.
Thank you... praise indeed, coming from someone who apparently trod in some horse shit without knowing it
No, not if he is guilty its not, but it sets a precedent that was hither to not carried out with former Presidents... perhaps Donald forgot to pardon himself before he left office... wouldn't surprise me?
Its a extra layer of restriction on future Presidents, no doubt requiring some new 'super duper' forms of 'plausible deniability*' to be established.
(* apparently first used by the CIA during the Kennedy administration)
A 'taboo' exists when everyone accepts its the 'done thing', and it effectively sets a precedent for the future. When that universal acceptance 'fails'... the taboo is broken.
This will be the long lasting effect of this action against former Presidents of the US, well after those carrying out the demolition, will have departed the scene... in some case completely departed.
What Presidents have been 'effectively pardoned' we don't know.... that was part of the 'taboo'!
Only time will tell if ..."WE GOT HIM THIS TIME" has any repercussions down the line and it will be for US citizens to work out whether it was worth it!
In the US, it is... that's what all the fuss is about.
In that case you could say that..... 'every silver lining has a cloud...'
So far Trump has only been charged with crimes allegedly committed before he was ever elected as President, so the fact that he was later President has no relevance in law, just because it's never happened before doesn't mean it shouldn't ever not happen.Thank you... praise indeed, coming from someone who apparently trod in some horse shit without knowing it
No, not if he is guilty its not, but it sets a precedent that was hither to not carried out with former Presidents... perhaps Donald forgot to pardon himself before he left office... wouldn't surprise me?
Its a extra layer of restriction on future Presidents, no doubt requiring some new 'super duper' forms of 'plausible deniability*' to be established.
(* apparently first used by the CIA during the Kennedy administration)
A 'taboo' exists when everyone accepts its the 'done thing', and it effectively sets a precedent for the future. When that universal acceptance 'fails'... the taboo is broken.
This will be the long lasting effect of this action against former Presidents of the US, well after those carrying out the demolition, will have departed the scene... in some case completely departed.
What Presidents have been 'effectively pardoned' we don't know.... that was part of the 'taboo'!
Only time will tell if ..."WE GOT HIM THIS TIME" has any repercussions down the line and it will be for US citizens to work out whether it was worth it!
In the US, it is... that's what all the fuss is about.
In that case you could say that..... 'every silver lining has a cloud...'
Totally forgot Trump also has to be in NYC this week & next for civil trials relating to pre-presidency alleged crimes.
Amazing that he was prolific enough in allegedly breaking the law that we need to preface if the crime was pre-WH, WH, or post-WH.
TBH I wish Mueller would pipe up now, let us know if it wasn't for the "rule" whether he would or wouldn't have charged Trump
You are correct, of the charges that (appear) to be on the horizon, the first one (stormy saga) was before he became President, the 'inciting a riot' was after he left (or was being kicked out!) and was no longer President, but not sure if the Georgia 'interference' was whilst he was still President?
So if the above is true, he may get some leeway on the last one; however it does not negate the fact that former Presidents, have (seemingly at least) got a pass on 'pre-or-post' Office matters, simply because they have held the highest office in the land.
Perhaps they know too much?
Wow. I've been reading your recent posts with bemusement, but this post plumbs new depths of stupidity.
Which former Presidents and for what crimes?
You've got it backwards. Trump has already set a much more fundamental precedent that a sitting president cannot be indicted, and the particular case in which that ruling was made hasn't been reopened after his term ended, despite multiple evident charges against him.
Before Trump, people still had this belief that nobody was above the law, he proved otherwise and has used political office as his shield like nobody ever has, its the reason he declared for 2024 so early. It's just that he's been up to such an enormous about of shit, all his life, that things are finally catching up to him.
God only knows what other investigations will open when prosecutors and victims alike realise this fecker isn't actually untouchable... Floodgates.
The '"inciting a riot" aka Jan 6 happened whilst he was President not after, I would still love to know which Presidents have gotten a pass because I've never seen any evidence to support that - aside from Nixon
And Nixon was a special case. Resigned to avoid impeachment and pardoned by his replacement to avoid charges for any criminal action he might have committed.