Hard not to believe it.
Dean has always been a cnut, nothing new.
I'm starting to be a believer
I really don't think it's an agenda but the level of incompetence of referees is astounding.
I think it’s just more of a case of incompetent officials and they second guess every decision of their own that they make.
Would they second guess against Klopp or the Saudi Embassy though?
Worth resurrecting this thread again. This is a shocking display of officiating led by a man with a pattern of it where United are concerned. You look at what was allowed on Friday night versus what was disallowed tonight.
Of course flat out incompetence is the most likely cause here, but it'd be good to go a couple of weeks without some of the more open to interpretation ones going against us at both ends
Of course flat out incompetence is the most likely cause here, but it'd be good to go a couple of weeks without some of the more open to interpretation ones going against us at both ends
There's no United agenda but the refs are just horrible really.
I wouldn't say there's a United agenda. But there's something.
I'd say it's more like refs try to even the ground between the big and the small team so they give like a 60-40 to the small team in 50-50 situations.
That shows way more in us because we are bad, we concede many more chances than the other top teams and create less scoring opportunities.
The decisions today were harsh but correct (although I think if Burnley did those they would have been given the goals) and the boro one is a travesty of a rule.
I'd say it's more like refs try to even the ground between the big and the small team so they give like a 60-40 to the small team in 50-50 situations.
That shows way more in us because we are bad, we concede many more chances than the other top teams and create less scoring opportunities.
The decisions today were harsh but correct (although I think if Burnley did those they would have been given the goals) and the boro one is a travesty of a rule.
There's no conscious agenda against us, obviously. However, I do think that officials are acutely aware of the abuse they'll get if they give a dodgy decision in United's favour, especially after Klopp's outburst, and that they as a result never give us the benefit of any doubt.
Apart of me thinks it’s revenge because they used to be scared of Fergie 
but that’s clearly ridiculous.
I think it is partly because when you give something against United the football world doesn’t care, we are the most hated club in the country and screwing united over in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really matter, so refs are more likely to give something against us. Again probably ridiculous but it’s how I feel.
but that’s clearly ridiculous.I think it is partly because when you give something against United the football world doesn’t care, we are the most hated club in the country and screwing united over in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really matter, so refs are more likely to give something against us. Again probably ridiculous but it’s how I feel.
I don't think there's an FA wide conspiracy but I definitely think some refs enjoy giving bad decisions against us, especially the older ones.
They know they can get away with it as no one will give a crap, even most United fans who are more likely to direct their anger at the club/manager.
Compare that to giving a decision against Klopp and they are likely to have him screaming in their face and slamming them in the media and he will face no punishment.
They know they can get away with it as no one will give a crap, even most United fans who are more likely to direct their anger at the club/manager.
Compare that to giving a decision against Klopp and they are likely to have him screaming in their face and slamming them in the media and he will face no punishment.
Of course I don't, I'm not a 11 year old or a Liverpool fan. I do think they're bloody rubbish at their jobs though.
Absolutely, the decisions last night were just made up. They were looking for any possible reason to disallow goals when there wasnt any. Foul on Rashford was in the back too - clear penalty.
Mike Dean is clearly a scouse fan and always has been.
Wish Ralf had come out kicking and screaming after that, he should have called it for what it was - corrupt.
Mike Dean is clearly a scouse fan and always has been.
Wish Ralf had come out kicking and screaming after that, he should have called it for what it was - corrupt.
There were three occasions last night when Dean wasn't going to give a few kick to Burnley. Then he listened to the crowd's reaction and gave the free kick.
That's not corruption it's a psychological thing.
I still want to know if they even reviewed the own goal incident. The linesman flagged very late for offside. There was no offside.
That's not corruption it's a psychological thing.
I still want to know if they even reviewed the own goal incident. The linesman flagged very late for offside. There was no offside.
Remember we used to laugh at people saying everything is corrupt and called them small time fans.
Why are we doing the same now?
The decisions last night were correct and the the same for Middlesbrough's goal too.
There is no conspiracy against us
Why are we doing the same now?
The decisions last night were correct and the the same for Middlesbrough's goal too.
There is no conspiracy against us
It is easy to give a decision against United as there is no back lash. Klopp would have destroyed them. Man City through their media contacts would have buried them. We are too nice.
I was trying to find the penalty against us outside of the box because of "Momentum"
Still haven't seen that type of decision and I don't think we'll see a handball where it changes the path of the ball in a lead up to goal either.
Still haven't seen that type of decision and I don't think we'll see a handball where it changes the path of the ball in a lead up to goal either.
Yup, both of last nights were soft but probably right. The Boro one is a farce of a rule but while it is then you have to go with it.
The conspiracy theories are absolutely wild and embarrassing tbh.
No one has said referees are out to get us. It is just when there is a 50-50 decision it is easy to give it against us as we are too nice. Give that decision against Klopp and see what happens. He would be chewing their heads off on the side line. They will think 10 times before giving it next time.
United fans used to laugh at RAWK for their conspiracy theories and constant moaning about the refs being against them, and refs showing favouritism towards us. Now we're shit like they used to be we're doing the same thing. It's embarrassing and wish it'd stop.
What’s this obsession with RAWK? That’s what’s embarrassing
Not necessarily ABU per se but it’s definitely easier giving a decision against us than for us.
I’ve never seen opposition managers complaining in press conferences against Burnley getting decisions their way, and there’s a huge deal made of it when we get a succession of deserved penalties going our way. Had we progressed in the FA cup in a similar manner that Middlesbrough did it would have still been all over the papers with the prime minister involved whereas now it’s just “brave Boro secure underdog win”.
I’ve never seen opposition managers complaining in press conferences against Burnley getting decisions their way, and there’s a huge deal made of it when we get a succession of deserved penalties going our way. Had we progressed in the FA cup in a similar manner that Middlesbrough did it would have still been all over the papers with the prime minister involved whereas now it’s just “brave Boro secure underdog win”.
Take more of our chances, and we have been very guilty of not recently, and these decisions become irrelevant.
Three things contribute to a clear subconscious bias, not only against us to be fair.
1. This current generation of refs grew up with us winning everything, if they didn't support us they hated us.
2. Some of them like Dean wanting to be the big man and stick it to the big teams.
3. Some of them have xenophobic bias against supposed diving/whining foreigners like Bruno and would rather the game be played the 'English way' by thugs like Burnley.
1. This current generation of refs grew up with us winning everything, if they didn't support us they hated us.
2. Some of them like Dean wanting to be the big man and stick it to the big teams.
3. Some of them have xenophobic bias against supposed diving/whining foreigners like Bruno and would rather the game be played the 'English way' by thugs like Burnley.
Incompetence. The second one last night was a disgrace and the Boro one is still fecking me right off. That was just them interpreting a new rule in the wrong way. Big feck you to Mike Dean too…absolute gimp.
Also, there’s definitely some unconscious or conscious bias going on in games, not necessarily aimed at us but it seems to affect us hell of a lot.
The fact that a referee can blow for a foul, acknowledge that it’s studs up with a hand motion and then play on without giving even a yellow card just shows that the rules are merely guidelines to them that they apply when they see fit. Especially when it’s the most card happy referee in the league.
The fact that a referee can blow for a foul, acknowledge that it’s studs up with a hand motion and then play on without giving even a yellow card just shows that the rules are merely guidelines to them that they apply when they see fit. Especially when it’s the most card happy referee in the league.
I bet if you looked on every single message board in the country you’d find fans complaining about refs and/or VAR decisions. I can’t remember the last time I went to see Ipswich play and walked away thinking that the ref was great and entirely fair to us. There’s always something. This is just a perfect example of confirmation bias in action, and it always amazes me that people can recognise it in others but not themselves. There’s no conspiracy, there are just humans making multiple decisions under pressure in a short time scale, attempting to interpret terms that exist on a scale, not a single focal point, like interfering, unnatural, dangerous etc, and apply it to a physical situation.
People are always more likely to criticise when there’s no chance that they themselves will be subject to that level of scrutiny. I bet none of the people screaming ‘bent ref’ etc have ever had to do something as mulitifaceted as referee a football match.
People are always more likely to criticise when there’s no chance that they themselves will be subject to that level of scrutiny. I bet none of the people screaming ‘bent ref’ etc have ever had to do something as mulitifaceted as referee a football match.
Well, I almost never post in here. I am more of a silent reader... but this agenda seems too easy to dispute.
According to this article (https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/m...n-europes-big-five-leagues-study-1244093.html) Manchester United has been awarded the most penalties in the Top 5 leagues since 2018/19, almost twice as many per Minutes as Liverpool btw. There is no other Englisch football club in the Top 10 besides Manchester United.
It would be very very weird, if there was an "ABU" agenda within referees while still being awarded the most penalties by far.
According to this article (https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/m...n-europes-big-five-leagues-study-1244093.html) Manchester United has been awarded the most penalties in the Top 5 leagues since 2018/19, almost twice as many per Minutes as Liverpool btw. There is no other Englisch football club in the Top 10 besides Manchester United.
It would be very very weird, if there was an "ABU" agenda within referees while still being awarded the most penalties by far.
There is no agenda, you need to be crazy or stupid to believe that. The refs are just bad, as they have been so in the EPL in the last 20 years.
There is no conspiracy against united, there is no media bias against yous, and the dislike for your club is due to the legions of plastic glory hunters with no connection to manchester. You should be hoping that a few years of relative unsuccess will winnow these nitwirs.
referees: the current problem is that VAR means some rules are now enforced literally where for the last 100 years they were enforced to the extent that the human eye can discern in real time. Eg what was once clearly onside is now off because of a finger.
media:if there is a current bias its that “champions return” and “fallen giant blunders again” are nice easy narratives and lazy analysis oscillates between these two extremes.
the scousers think everyone is against them as well: the likely explanation is yous are both wrong
as for city, if you think they are getting an easy ride from other clubs fans , its sheer despair .
referees: the current problem is that VAR means some rules are now enforced literally where for the last 100 years they were enforced to the extent that the human eye can discern in real time. Eg what was once clearly onside is now off because of a finger.
media:if there is a current bias its that “champions return” and “fallen giant blunders again” are nice easy narratives and lazy analysis oscillates between these two extremes.
the scousers think everyone is against them as well: the likely explanation is yous are both wrong
as for city, if you think they are getting an easy ride from other clubs fans , its sheer despair .
After always seeing that thread in the forum and never opening it, I always assumed it had something to do with Abu Dhabi
I love tese conspiracies though. In the Netherlands a lot of people like to say all officials are instructed to give Ajax the league, but most media are accussed by Ajax fans of always trying to hate on Ajax because they're jealous. I'm sure there's bias in media, they want to sell papers after all, but some widespread orchestrated conspiracy to make one club's life miserable? naaaaaaaaaah
I love tese conspiracies though. In the Netherlands a lot of people like to say all officials are instructed to give Ajax the league, but most media are accussed by Ajax fans of always trying to hate on Ajax because they're jealous. I'm sure there's bias in media, they want to sell papers after all, but some widespread orchestrated conspiracy to make one club's life miserable? naaaaaaaaaah
I think you are probably right. One thing I do seem to experience though, is that refs in England (not in Europa) are more negative towards us after Fergie than before. And it aalso seemed to me that that changed during the Solskjær era, until it switched back after Klopp did his quite effective mind games.
It doesn’t make sense to me that this impression should have anything to do with confirmation bias on my part, and it’s made me think about the fact that even refs have confirmation biases that may operate even when they try hard to be neutral.
The two goals that were called of yesterday, even though correctly by the rule book, were for me very good examples of goals I’d expect to stand 9/10 times under Fergie (even adjusting for the freedom from VAR then) or under the first two years of Solskjær.
I don't see it as anything against us directly, and any talk of an actual conspiracy is just silly. But I think smaller teams do get a lot of leniency in games against bigger clubs. In the last two games it's been wild how many times we're penalised for a really really soft 'foul', but much rougher contact from Boro and Burnley was just waved on.
In the Boro game, there was an instance where McTominay was smashed into, shoved over the sidelines and dispossessed, then a moment later, Fred pulled the same player by the shoulder and got an instant booking.
Weghorst last night did enough to get 5 separate bookings, and obviously got none. It happens frequently where we are being kicked up and down the pitch, yet we're the ones booked first on the night for a nothing challenge.
The 1st disallowed goal is murky because Maguire was offside and did technically interfere, but he was shoved into an offside position by an opponent so I'm not sure what he's supposed to do. The shove is surely a foul, no? You've basically taken a player out of being able to compete for a set piece. But the 2nd disallowed goal is incredibly soft, and seeing similar goals go against us (like against WBA where the guy had his hands all over Lindelof's face, and the Sheffield United one where they just body checked De Gea), I just don't think that gets disallowed if Burnley score it. Same with Maguire's disallowed goal on the same ground last season, which was way softer than either of these two last night - that stands if it's Burnley's goal.
In the Boro game, there was an instance where McTominay was smashed into, shoved over the sidelines and dispossessed, then a moment later, Fred pulled the same player by the shoulder and got an instant booking.
Weghorst last night did enough to get 5 separate bookings, and obviously got none. It happens frequently where we are being kicked up and down the pitch, yet we're the ones booked first on the night for a nothing challenge.
The 1st disallowed goal is murky because Maguire was offside and did technically interfere, but he was shoved into an offside position by an opponent so I'm not sure what he's supposed to do. The shove is surely a foul, no? You've basically taken a player out of being able to compete for a set piece. But the 2nd disallowed goal is incredibly soft, and seeing similar goals go against us (like against WBA where the guy had his hands all over Lindelof's face, and the Sheffield United one where they just body checked De Gea), I just don't think that gets disallowed if Burnley score it. Same with Maguire's disallowed goal on the same ground last season, which was way softer than either of these two last night - that stands if it's Burnley's goal.
Sky's YouTube highlights of last night don't even show our 2nd disallowed goal last night, the one that was actually contentious.
So that certainly points towards the idea of some kind of inherent bias. If that's true do you think it was because Fergie got MORE than his fair share of calls (i.e. bias in his favour), and that then regressed to normal/fair levels after he left. Or that Fergie got the right amount of bias (none), and then after he left it then regressed to a bias against you?
We are lacking characters honestly.
Like surrounding the referee for bad decisions or asking for more clarifications before resuming play, even our interim manager doesn’t care or make noise about these decisions.
Someone mentioned smaller teams has advantage, NO its not. Watch liverpool matches and see how smaller teams don’t get any decision on their favour and even clear cut penalties.
And YES i believe there’s some level of conspiracy in these decisions to bring the club down for all the success we enjoyed at the top. The TV pundits doesn’t like to discuss these decisions while even a small foul by united player talked much.
Like surrounding the referee for bad decisions or asking for more clarifications before resuming play, even our interim manager doesn’t care or make noise about these decisions.
Someone mentioned smaller teams has advantage, NO its not. Watch liverpool matches and see how smaller teams don’t get any decision on their favour and even clear cut penalties.
And YES i believe there’s some level of conspiracy in these decisions to bring the club down for all the success we enjoyed at the top. The TV pundits doesn’t like to discuss these decisions while even a small foul by united player talked much.
Thread deserves a poll, with usernames. Let's see who the loons are.
Nah, that’s just bollocks. The reason we don’t see these against Liverpool is two fold, 1) we’re not watching Liverpool all the time so we only see what makes headlines and 2) Liverpool put another 3 in so the soft (albeit correct) disallowing of goals doesn’t make headlines.
Just accept that the only reason we’re struggling is that we haven’t got a goal scorer and not some grand conspiracy.
I think this is very true. One of the differences between now and say, the fergie era (or the current Klopp/guardiola eras) is that it is much more likely that in Utd’s case a single 50:50 decision will affect the outcome of a game. I mean, how many times did goals get disallowed under fergie but you still went on to win 3-1? Probably tons of times. But the results and the trophies made those events unimportant in the long run, and way less memorable.