Divock Origi and Lazar Markovic

The only exaggeration is your analysis of how brilliant he is. Gerrard WAS an exceptionally good player, one of the best in the world. He isn't like Scholes, or Xavi, or Pirlo, who has a deadly passing range both short and long, with great technique and control. He doesn't have the killer footballing intelligence these players have. What he has, though, which these guys didn't is a fierce determination and a passion. He's technically good and has a good passing range (just not at their level). His game was perfect when he was more attacking in midfield and he'd run into the box late. Dictating play is not his strength. He looked better last year because he's capable of playing that role, just not on the level you seem to describe him, and in previous seasons he was crap because he didn't have the legs to play his old role which the previous managers still wanted him to.

Gerrard might not be completely finished, but he isn't the amazing player you still incorrectly want to try and convince everyone he is.

I haven't said that. He has been amazing and I accept he's in his twilight period. I was just countering the statement that he's finished. Rodgers knows the man's limitations at 34 which is why he didn't use him like Hodgson did at the World Cup. By comparison, Italy would never dream of using Pirlo as a box-to-box midfielder. An Italian journo was on the radio almost laughing at how Hodgson deployed Gerrard. He basically said that you protect Gerrard like the Italian protect Pirlo. The water carrying should be done by others.

I also agree that his passing is not consistently in the realms of those mentioned. In fact what made Gerrard such a special player was his ability to do nearly all things very well but not be the best in any department. He rates pretty well in most areas but there are better exponents of each skill set. If you wanted Gerrard to do a job in virtually every position on the pitch he could be at least decent. For example, you'd never put Xavi at right back and expect a good shift. You'd never put Scholes on the wing and expect bounding runs. You'd never put Ronaldo in the centre of midfield and expect a disciplined display. Yet Gerrard can do all these things well, some very well. He's been an unusual type of player and it took Rafa to get the very best of him (05-09) but I would say his brilliance in the past has been his ability to be a manager's dream squad member.
 
I haven't said that. He has been amazing and I accept he's in his twilight period. I was just countering the statement that he's finished. Rodgers knows the man's limitations at 34 which is why he didn't use him like Hodgson did at the World Cup. By comparison, Italy would never dream of using Pirlo as a box-to-box midfielder. An Italian journo was on the radio almost laughing at how Hodgson deployed Gerrard. He basically said that you protect Gerrard like the Italian protect Pirlo. The water carrying should be done by others.

I also agree that his passing is not consistently in the realms of those mentioned. In fact what made Gerrard such a special player was his ability to do nearly all things very well but not be the best in any department. He rates pretty well in most areas but there are better exponents of each skill set. If you wanted Gerrard to do a job in virtually every position on the pitch he could be at least decent. For example, you'd never put Xavi at right back and expect a good shift. You'd never put Scholes on the wing and expect bounding runs. You'd never put Ronaldo in the centre of midfield and expect a disciplined display. Yet Gerrard can do all these things well, some very well. He's been an unusual type of player and it took Rafa to get the very best of him (05-09) but I would say his brilliance in the past has been his ability to be a manager's dream squad member.

I do largely agree with that. Overall Rodgers used him well, very well indeed. The issue is the quality that Gerrard lacks in the role he's being asked to play has to be counteracted across the park. In particular, you need a better defense because Gerrard will rarely be a big influence defensively (which is part of the reason you had a poor defense last season).

I obviously agree that Gerrard being finished is OTT, but he is no longer the player your team should be built around like it used to. Italy and Spain can protext Xavi and Pirlo because despite their age, they are the very best at what they do. Gerrard isn't quite that anymore, and so he might not be finished but he shouldn't really be your key player anymore.
 
the more liverpools summer spending goes on the more confident i am they will fall out of the top 4.

don't think they have bought anyone yet who is champions league quality(with the possible exception on Lallana).

And they are selling by far thier best player.... all in all great news for us!
 
How good is Markovic? He's received a lot of hype this past year but I can't say I've seen more than a few clips here and there.
 
the more liverpools summer spending goes on the more confident i am they will fall out of the top 4.

don't think they have bought anyone yet who is champions league quality(with the possible exception on Lallana).

And they are selling by far thier best player.... all in all great news for us!

Strange - I personally fail to see how Lallana is champions league quality. Someone like Markovic IMO is much more champions league quality (given he has in fact played and impressed in the CL and the latter stages of the EL).

But in essence i agree - Origi, Emre Can, Lallana, Lambert...don't see much real CL quality there.
 
How good is Markovic? He's received a lot of hype this past year but I can't say I've seen more than a few clips here and there.

I must admit when I was watching the EL latter stages, he looked very impressive. I thought he was excellent. But I only watched a couple of games. You could watch a couple games of Nani and you'd think he was a world beater, when in actual fact if you watch him week in week out you'd realize he has copper for brains.
 
Good signings. They'll add much needed depth to their squad. Origi looked good in the WC and Markovic has never failed to impress me in the few times that I've actually seen him play.
 
at times Origi impressed me - at times he looked out of his depth. But he is worth a gamble for £10 million - as you can clearly see the talent.
 
He really isn't. He's just come off his best season in 5 years. Rodgers used him brilliantly last season. A focus on a small number of errors appears to have clouded judgement here. But then the Caf has regarded Gerrard as a self-indulgent ineffective show off for about 10 years now so it's not a surprise that such an exaggeration as to his current abilities appears here.

It's not purely a Gerrard thing in this case - people just have a strange fixation with age. Gerrard's conversion to a deeper role is similar to Giggs' conversion to a central role and you had people on here saying Giggs was finished since 07/08. At the end of every season you'd have people saying it and it is because of what you said - the small number of errors tend to be what sticks in the memory and when people add their age on top of it, it's easy to just jump to the conclusion that he's finished. Gerrard has a while to go yet I think.

On topic, Markovic is obviously not a Suárez replacement. At most he's a replacement for Borini - a young, talented, multifunctional attacker. Looked very impressive in the EL last season. Definitely like the look of Origi too. Bringing in more young talent is great and has obviously been a big part of Rodgers' success so far, but I thought he would've built on last season by bringing in one quality player at his peak to build on last season. Henderson, Coutinho, Sakho and co. were all good signings in that vein but they did have some struggles with inconsistency at the beginning of their Liverpool careers as you would expect from young players at a new club. I suppose they may bring in a top class CB yet.
 
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It's not purely a Gerrard thing in this case - people just have a strange fixation with age. Gerrard's conversion to a deeper role is similar to Giggs' conversion to a central role and you had people on here saying Giggs was finished since 07/08. At the end of every season you'd have people saying it and it is because of what you said - the small number of errors tend to be what sticks in the memory and when people add their age on top of it, it's easy to just jump to the conclusion that he's finished. Gerrard has a while to go yet I think.

Yeah the "sell Giggs" school of thought was an annual event from some for about the past 7 years.
 
Markovic is a really impressive talent. He could turn out to be a really good buy for Liverpool. Only seen Origi in this World Cup so I can't comment on him.

I think Liverpool should have replaced Suarez with one top striker though unless they're still going to go after a top striker.
 
Still very early in transfer window. Pool will defo buy at least one defender IMO. Rodgers isn't stupid.
 
Too early to make a comment on Origi personally. Only seen him in this WC, and he's been good and bad. He's young so who knows what level he may or may not reach.

Markovic looks talented, but I'm going to put it out there and say.....he'll be average for Liverpool. Shots fired.
 
I personally wasn't too impressed with Origi - i think his performances began to get overrated due to Lukaku's performances.
When he was in the box it didnt appear as though he had a clear plan of what he wanted to do. Someone mentioned Welbeck earlier and I think thats a pretty accurate comparison tbf

When Lukaku came off the bench in Belgium's final match there was almost instantly an improvement by Belgium, but Origi's only 19 and is bound to improve, just doesn't seem like a 25 goal a season striker.
 
Origi is not going to be a top player from what I have seen. Will be a decent squad player for Liverpool.

Markovic, I have no idea about. Is he good?
 
Origi was good for the time that he was given. The only concern with him at the moment for me would be goals, but he has plenty of time in his career to sort that out as he has the general attributes to go quite far in the game i think. His energy and pace at the back end of games is a great asset to have in a team, especially one which will create, and i believe that the Liverpool side can give him more service than the Belgian side managed. Rodgers seems to like team players too so they can work as a unit and Origi did well to link up with players during the tournament. I still prefer Lukaku but both have the potential to be very good players in their own right.
 
Origi is not going to be a top player from what I have seen. Will be a decent squad player for Liverpool.

I expect when he finally comes over, it will be to replace Lambert as backup for Sturridge.
 
Is Markovic a better talent than Lamela? Heard similar praise before Spurs signed him but he hasn't settled in England at all.

I liked the look of Origi from the games I seen. Looks raw but plenty of potential.


Lamela tore apart Serie A and was among its top scorers. I don't rate Serie A that highly but its a lot stronger than the Portuguese League, and Markovic hasn't even got close to a season the likes of Lamela had.


In short, not a chance.
 
I think I heard a hell of a lot more praise about Lamela. Can't remember who but one journalist from Italy was saying he can become better than Bale. Lamela had his injury problems but when he did play truly looked terrible.

I think he'll come good. He's incredibly talented he just hasn't settled whatsoever and has been injured. Pocchetino might be able to get him going, he's one of only a few of our summer signings I have faith in the long term.
 
Lamela tore apart Serie A and was among its top scorers. I don't rate Serie A that highly but its a lot stronger than the Portuguese League, and Markovic hasn't even got close to a season the likes of Lamela had.
In short, not a chance.
Lamela was magnificient on Roma, a potential Ballon D'Or winner. I don't know what you did to him though.
 
Lamela was magnificient on Roma, a potential Ballon D'Or winner. I don't know what you did to him though.

A combination of AVB deciding to freeze him out at the start; had a great game (albeit in the Europa League) then wasn't seen for another few matches and Sherwood taking over and liking Lennon. Then there's the injury as well.

I think he's homesick too, sadly. He's a quiet lad by all accounts and has struggled to fit in. Under a new Argentine manager hopefully he can take him aside and get him going. If we can get Lamela playing at his best with Eriksen and a new striker then :drool:

Fingers crossed for him next season.
 
I think he'll come good. He's incredibly talented he just hasn't settled whatsoever and has been injured. Pocchetino might be able to get him going, he's one of only a few of our summer signings I have faith in the long term.
Eriksen looks handy, Paulinho is a decent midfielder and Chiriches looks like a talent too. Chadli was a cheap punt and Lamela could still prove a decent buy. All in all the only one who was a complete waste of money IMO was Soldado.
 
Eriksen looks handy, Paulinho is a decent midfielder and Chiriches looks like a talent too. Chadli was a cheap punt and Lamela could still prove a decent buy. All in all the only one who was a complete waste of money IMO was Soldado.

Oh and how they laughed in Spain when they knew how much Soldado went for.
 
Eriksen looks handy, Paulinho is a decent midfielder and Chiriches looks like a talent too. Chadli was a cheap punt and Lamela could still prove a decent buy. All in all the only one who was a complete waste of money IMO was Soldado.

Chriches and Eriksen are the only one who so far have performed to expectations. Paulinho underwhelming but alright. Chadli might have been cheap but I'd rather not have him in the squad, he's worth negative money. Lamela could turn out good but we'll see. Right now he's still a waste.

Soldado was a total, total waste of money. He's actually a decent footballer, he just doesn't fit at all in with the side. Shocking
 
Oh and how they laughed in Spain when they knew how much Soldado went for.

Didn't he score only a few less goals than Falcao in the league the season he left? He was a consistent goalscorer, we needed a striker, we had money, Valencia milked us. No one could've expected he'd flop this bad.
 
Chriches and Eriksen are the only one who so far have performed to expectations. Paulinho underwhelming but alright. Chadli might have been cheap but I'd rather not have him in the squad, he's worth negative money. Lamela could turn out good but we'll see. Right now he's still a waste.

Soldado was a total, total waste of money. He's actually a decent footballer, he just doesn't fit at all in with the side. Shocking

Paulinho has always been a bit shit offensively but it was to be expected at the time of signing. I told Glaston last year that he's nothing special, he'll get the job done but ultimately you should be aiming for a higher quality players - at the price you bought him for he was a fair buy mind.
 
Didn't he score only a few less goals than Falcao in the league the season he left? He was a consistent goalscorer, we needed a striker, we had money, Valencia milked us. No one could've expected he'd flop this bad.
He was but it seems that his comfort zone is a mid-table Spanish side. He's been absolutely dreadful, way beyond any imagination I agree - some of his misses, wow. I hate him even more since if he'd only scored one of his numerous chances against Norwich I'd have won 3 thousand pounds.
 
Didn't he score only a few less goals than Falcao in the league the season he left? He was a consistent goalscorer, we needed a striker, we had money, Valencia milked us. No one could've expected he'd flop this bad.

Irrespective, I remember being in Spain near the time and the general consensus was Man City overpaid for Negredo, and Negredo was significantly better than Soldado.
 
Paulinho has always been a bit shit offensively but it was to be expected at the time of signing. I told Glaston last year that he's nothing special, he'll get the job done but ultimately you should be aiming for a higher quality players - at the price you bought him for he was a fair buy mind.

He's good enough for us, to be honest. He's a Brazil international regular, we can hardly turn our noses up. He's been ok and like you said, 17 mill is decent money for him.
 
Irrespective, I remember being in Spain near the time and the general consensus was Man City overpaid for Negredo, and Negredo was significantly better than Soldado.

I always thought Soldado was the higher rated of the two. He was the one after all who was more of a regular in the national side.
 
I always thought Soldado was the higher rated of the two. He was the one after all who was more of a regular in the national side.

Nope - was the other way around. I guess they see him more on a regular basis than any of us did when he was in Spain. But anyway, it is by the by. He's been poor at Spurs on all parts of the game a striker is expected to fulfill. Even if they didn't rate him VS Negredo and they felt the fee was too much, I'm sure no one expected him to be as big a catastrophe as he has been.
 
I think Markovic will become a top player, really like what I've seen from him. Origi should be more of a gamble.
 
Nope - was the other way around. I guess they see him more on a regular basis than any of us did when he was in Spain. But anyway, it is by the by. He's been poor at Spurs on all parts of the game a striker is expected to fulfill. Even if they didn't rate him VS Negredo and they felt the fee was too much, I'm sure no one expected him to be as big a catastrophe as he has been.


He's been a decent passer. That's about all I can say about him. :lol:
 
Decent signings by LFC so far. Rodgers is building a side that will be able to challenge for the top 4 over the next decade or so.
 
Is now really the time for Liverpool to be splashing out on young players? They have only just made it back into the top 4 and they could very easily fall back out of it.

Maybay the big top players don't want to join them yet as they fear this may be a one off, definitley with Suarez going. Seems Sanchez turned them down for example.
 
Origi looks a good talent. Well worth signing for 10 million. He looks strong, rapid and seems skillful too.