Is it 20?
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
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Is it 20?
If you have a striker who deputises for Rooney then you've got one playing the same style, which is a primary or main striker who is a goal poacher, aka Owen. If you have a partner for Rooney then you need one who plays as a second striker, which is exactly what Berba is. You can't have both a partner (second striker) and a deputy (first striker) in one player. Their games are different.
We haven't got Berba as our main strike alternative, that's Owen (or Macheda).
Yeah my mistake, 30 is how many he's been involved in not started. 22 starts is it?
Edit- I see you answered 21 already.
Yeah, 21 starts 8 sub appearances.
Only started one CL game too. Which puts his 0 CL goals into perspective.
Rooney's fantastic form and Fergie's preference for 451 in a lot of games this season has really marginalised Berbatov and I'll accept that the fact he's not forced Fergie to change his tactics to accomodate him is grounds for criticism (albeit slightly unfair) but he's done well with the opportunities he's had.
Spot on, some people seem to think that if we'd signed Tevez instead that he and Rooney would have scored 26 and 22 goals anyway.
When we won the treble we had 4 strikers who offered different things and had experience and quality, this year we've been a little short with Macheda's injuries and rawness and Owen not quite working out as we hoped we've been a little short no doubt but the rooney/berbatov partnership is fine.
Who would you rather (this season) have up front on their own, Tevez or Berbatov?
Who would you rather was partnering Rooney?
It's an obvious answer.
The two are not mutually exclusive! And Macheda is actually a player who could well fit the mould of a partner for Rooney and a player who is direct enough to play alone when needed.
It's the directness that Berba lacks ultimately. And there are players out there who are direct enough to balance this equation out.
I find it bizarre that after two seasons, people are even debating this. Berba is quality undoubted, but he does not fit our system, he's not a player to build a team around, and his wages are huge.
Let him go, and remember his cute flicks against low league opposition.
I'd say Macheda is going to be a main striker, just don't think he's suited to be second striker at all.
Tevez has nothing to do with the discussion as far as I'm concerned, he plays for another team.
Up front on their own - Tevez (in his city form that is, not in his form for us last year)
Partnering Rooney - Berbatov
If Spurs get CL football, maybe Berba will not be averse to going back there.
Berbatov hasn't really scored a big big goal for us in a really important game with everything riding on it, and he does like playing against Spurs....I wonder.
Tbf, most of the criticism he gets isn't fair. I haven't seen a Utd player vilified like this since the son of God made his break through in the starting XI.
Maybe
my thinking exactly. we all know 'arry likes to wheel and deal. we could probably get 20 million from the cnuts.fecking hell. The guy comes on for 20 minutes and this discussion is reopened. I thought he did ok. No worse than all of our attacking players bar the ginge.
this
Tevez was mentioned as an example of a player who can do both those things. I'm not a Tevez fanboi, and I don't want him near our club again.
We don't need a player to replicate what Rooney does, but we need one who can play with him, and when required - lead the line in their own right.
It doesn't need to be as limited, or black and white an approach as you're making it. For instance, most here would drool at the prospect of Wayne and Torres playing together, only a fool wouldn't want to see that. However, BOTH are capable of effectively fronting a 451 or 433 formation.
David Villa would be another example of a player who can do this.
As I've said before, it's about the direct nature these players have. Berbatov does not have this quality, and does not seem capable of aquiring it.
I personally feel no need for us to 'settle', and I'm confident SAF feels the same and will act on this either this Summer or next.
In fairness the thread was talked about before the game and has been a very 'current' topic for the last week or so. Not just here either
All well and good, but can you name one of these types of players who'd be both good enough to play both roles you mention, and be happy to drop to the bench when we play 4-5-1? Tevez wasn't, and I don't think Torres or Villa would be either.
As for settling, I don't think we're settling at all - we do need someone who can come in and play Rooney's role when Rooney isn't able to, and admittedly that's probably not the best use for Berbatov. I would imagine Hernandez was bought for that exact reason - pacey, good with his feet, and a danger in the air. Plus the added bonus that, I believe, he can play off a main striker too if needs be. Whether he can show this in the premier league is another question, but the initial signs are good.
Berbatov is a pretty unusual attacking option to have for any team, which is probably part of the reason people are finding it difficult to warm to him. You may say that he just turns it on against the minnows, but bear in mind the kinds of teams Chelsea have dropped points to this season: Wigan, West Ham, Hull, Blackburn. To my mind, the only game against lower table opposition that Berbatov's started in his second striker role and we didn't take 3 points from was the Sunderland game, and Berbatov by all accounts had a better day than Rooney that day. Berbatov is not, and was never, the man whose job was to fill Rooney's boots when Rooney was out, he's just the only forward we had fit to try and do the job. And he just got booed for it when he actually didn't do all that badly.
He did well when he came on today. He showed desire to change something. Nani and him had a positive effect on the game.
I would still take a point off his rating since the fecker isn't even quick enough to catch Scholes and give him a big man hug when he started celebrating his goal. This is the epitomy of languidness. Not being able to catch a 40 year old who just got hit on the head with a ball.
So, lads, what do you think of Dimitar?
I would still take a point off his rating since the fecker isn't even quick enough to catch Scholes and give him a big man hug when he started celebrating his goal. This is the epitomy of languidness. Not being able to catch a 40 year old who just got hit on the head with a ball.
So, lads, what do you think of Dimitar?
He did ok when he came on. Went on a couple of good runs, made a couple of good passes, lost possession a little easily sometimes.
Rooney was not fit at all. I'm surprised Berbatov did not start.
Rooney was not fit at all. I'm surprised Berbatov did not start.
You're kidding right?
No. Rooney wasn't fit and that was clear. He was fitter than he was against Milan but he still isn't right. I would have thought that playing him against Milan would be have been seen in hindsight as a mistake.
What?
The fact Rooney lasted as long as he did would seem to mean his ankle was ok.
Don't forget Rooney is capable of playing badly, without being hindered by injury, especially when he's on his own up top. Yesterday wasn't his first bad performance all season.
Don't forget Rooney is capable of playing badly, without being hindered by injury, especially when he's on his own up top. Yesterday wasn't his first bad performance all season.
What you should say is he wasn't match fit. For we all know as long as he passed a fitness test, he'd be picked ahead of Berbatov. Without qualms.
If Nani struck the match, Berbatov will light the fuse
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/nani-will-reignite-our-charge-title-282375/
Berbatov is:
a) One of our calmest and most aware players with the ball under control.
b) Our best player to cushion the ball out of the sky, ready to hit.
c) A player already playing under so much pressure, that the end of season tension won't affect him any more negatively.
All the above attributes help teams to win tight games. Even if he doesn't start, the next 3 games may bring a time when he is needed. Many of us will be surprised at just how crucial his impact will be.
Come on Berba.
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/nani-will-reignite-our-charge-title-282375/
Berbatov is:
a) One of our calmest and most aware players with the ball under control.
b) Our best player to cushion the ball out of the sky, ready to hit.
c) A player already playing under so much pressure, that the end of season tension won't affect him any more negatively.
All the above attributes help teams to win tight games. Even if he doesn't start, the next 3 games may bring a time when he is needed. Many of us will be surprised at just how crucial his impact will be.
Come on Berba.
Wrong forum
Correct. Rooney does switch off from time to time.
This won't end well.
Nice try.Good god, dont we have much else to discuss cept berba ? He's just one player in the squad and one who hasnt had an extreme effect either way (good or bad) to warrant such immense heated discussion day in and day out.
EDIT : this just looks stupid now that the 2 threads have been merged.
EDIT : this just looks stupid now that the 2 threads have been merged.
Nah, he 'lasted' for ages against Munich, but he clearly wasn't right
It wasn't a fit Rooney and you could tell because he was almost Berbatov like in his movement, not the usual all action ball chasing and movement you associate with him
Yea I agree with Brad, Rooney was definitely not right yesterday, he was giving up on loose balls and when he was fed through he didn't have his normal burst of pace, I'd have brought him off for Berba earlier myself but it ended up not mattering thanks to Scholesy.
Hopefully he'll be back to normal next week.
Hopefully he'll be back to normal next week.
Ffs.
Completely different scenario. Against Munich he was fine until he went over on his ankle in a specific incident, then spent the rest of the match hobbling. Nothing like that happened yesterday.
wishful thinking
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