Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances

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Matter of opinion, fine. You didn't state it as if it were, and again, you lambasted me for being off topic when I said that it wasn't as apparent as you felt it was, for me.

How do we measure effort? Like someone said, it was pointed out by Ferguson before the game that he is to sit deeper than you want him to, and towards the end of last season he was the one who ran the most according to stats. He deliberately upped his running because people get on his back, but throwing himself around like Rooney is NOT his game. You could slate Zidane for effort, but he was glorious when it mattered. Sadly, Berba's not as consistent or confident, but I'm talking about styles of play.

My opinion is that he's too lazy, uncommitted, moody, petulant at times, lethargic, etc etc etc etc too much of the time I see him play. He makes far too few runs into the box offering his midfielders a target and he spends too much time slamming his hand against the floor when he doesn't get a decision without having the impact that the other moaner in our team in recent years had. He's never made himself one to be on the teamsheet no question (which he could have done in my opinion). He's never convinced he is more than a bit part.

A nice flick here and there, a piroutte past a defender and the odd nice drag back are not why he was brought here. He was brought to play his part, to give his all to the United cause, to score goals, to improve our team in the way you'd hope a 30m pound player not named Veron would. But he has never done that and doesn't belong at our club. This is all opinon, much as everything written on a forum is, unless you want to quote a fractional goal per game return differential of 0.02 between Berbatov and another player who used to give his all for us, which frankly means feck all when I can see, plain as day that the guy isn't putting in the effort.
 
It's just the way it is unfortunately. I remember an occasion when Blackburn had possession in the midfield just inside their own half, both Giggs and Scholes were stood off deep in our own half inviting Blackburn forward, and Berbatov was the one tracking back from the front hassling them into losing possession.

Wasn't the finest performance by anyone in the team today, but both the stats and what I saw with my own eyes told me that Berbatov was probably the most likely to be instrumental in us scoring a goal today, closely followed by Nani. Yet people are extremely vocal about how berbasupporters "try too hard" to find excuses for his flaws. Maybe we wouldn't have to if so many didn't try so hard to find flaws!

I kind of suspect there is a lot more support for Berbatov on here than there seems to be, but I can't totally blame them for not wanting to get dragged into this madness.

I think so too

It's a shame the headstrong angry mob far outnumber those who wish to look at the matter more objectively, though.

I can only imagine what those are like in life. fecking hell to be anywhere them. I am emotional too, but those are just sad loser cnuts who feed off of hatre.
 
Did you read what I went on to write? I'm just trying to show that if he really were SHIT compared to Tevez, he'd certainly have a far poorer statistical showing next to him.

Why do people always have to go to the extreme when describing things? People get defensive and go too far the other way and all of a sudden you just have this big fecking back and forth of hyperbole which generally is far off the mark.

I seriously need to vacate this thread. Wish me luck.

I don't think it's an extreme Erik, Tevez is so much better than Berbatov it aint funny. I honestly believe that.

Good luck though pal.
 
I actually think we agree with each other tbf. I also don't think his body language was good. He seemed helpless and worryingly desperate second half. Hence the increased moaning and under the breath muttering turning into an all out angry sulk. I just feel though it was clear from it that he cared.

Fair enough. He obviously does care. I just don't think it looks like it does, which helps make him an easy target for both our fans and opposing fans.
 
I think so too



I can only imagine what those are like in life. fecking hell to be anywhere them. I am emotional too, but those are just sad loser cnuts who feed off of hatre.

Feed off hate?

Are you off your head? The drama in here is verging on gay.

Berbatov is simply not a United player. That's all many are really saying whilst the vent their disappointment in him.

It was the same with Veron.

Had forums been around at the time, I daresay it would have been the same with Peter Davenport and Gary Birtles.
 
Disregarding Berbatov and how he has performed, the big issue I had with the transfer was as follows:

Some people were saying he was a great player and would be a great signing, mainly because he would offer us something different, i.e. slow the game down, offer more precise passes, be something different to the power and pace that we basically played at. But my point then remains my point now. Why did we want to change our play? Why did we want to slow things down? We are better playing at speed. We are not at our best when slowing the play down. Hitting teams at speed and hitting teams on the break is United at our best and has been since I can remember anyway.

Berbatov is a quality player. I don't think he is really the type of quality player that we need though. The difference between he and Rooney is huge, not just because Rooney is fantastic, but because of the way we play with him in the team, with speed & power etc. Rooney exemplifies a true United type player.

I'm not having a go at Berbatov by the way. He is what he is and his style of play is the way he is. I don't think it is the United style of play though. And since 4-5-1 is the new 4-4-2, that makes it even harder for Berbatov to be the best that he can be for the club.
 
I'm sure there are some genuine Berba fans in here, but equally, I think there are some who just don't want to admit that he might not have been the greatest buy. It was the same with Veron. Wonderful player, but just couldn't do it here, but a hardened few wouldn't tolerate criticism of him - until he was sold and then the opinions changed drastically.

Berbatov has wonderful skill. But overall, he doesn't do it here, and he certainly hasn't done what he was bought for.
 

And to me, it seems clear that he becomes extremely influenced when the fans get on his back. He obviously thrives on confidence, as most players do, but he seems to need approval. Having SAF do what he did on Wednesday had to be a kick in the stones for him, regardless of whether SAF was right or wrong in what he did.
 
And anyone who needs approval to raise his game is too weak for United. Back to Spurs.
 
I'm sure there are some genuine Berba fans in here, but equally, I think there are some who just don't want to admit that he might not have been the greatest buy. It was the same with Veron. Wonderful player, but just couldn't do it here, but a hardened few wouldn't tolerate criticism of him - until he was sold and then the opinions changed drastically.

Berbatov has wonderful skill. But overall, he doesn't do it here, and he certainly hasn't done what he was bought for.

I think the Veron thing was more baffling. On paper, it looked like he could fit perfectly into the team. On paper, he and Keane looked an amazing partnership.
 
I'm sure there are some genuine Berba fans in here, but equally, I think there are some who just don't want to admit that he might not have been the greatest buy. It was the same with Veron. Wonderful player, but just couldn't do it here, but a hardened few wouldn't tolerate criticism of him - until he was sold and then the opinions changed drastically.

Berbatov has wonderful skill. But overall, he doesn't do it here, and he certainly hasn't done what he was bought for.


In fairness, I think the berbafans on the whole are pretty willing to admit that although they support him and see his use, they expected more from him when he came. I think it's fairly clear that those at the other end of the spectrum have the more over the top approach to the discussion, because he clearly isn't "shit", clearly does care, and was at worst our joint most creative player today.
 
I know that's why he was bought, but has it worked out like that?

You'd think he was a midfielder from his positioning a lot of the time.

I don't know what he is.

For a team like Spurs, he's a good striker and or midfielder. However, at United we operate at a higher level.

I feel sorry for him in all honesty. He likes being at United, he wants to be at United and he wants to succeed at United but we don't always get what we want.
 
Yet Berba still gets blamed for it. Amazing really...

Playing deep does not mean you play as a midfielder who takes a slow jog into the penalty area whenever there's a chance. You are a striker after all, whether one that leads the line or one that plays behind another. When a winger is about to cross, you jolly well be in a good position to offer an option not walking 5 yards in front of the halfway line. That's what he gets blamed for.
 
I think the Veron thing was more baffling. On paper, it looked like he could fit perfectly into the team. On paper, he and Keane looked an amazing partnership.

Yes. They weren't though. And some people could see it - stand up Stan - and others wouldn't.
 
I think Berbatov was alright today. If Valencia had scored that chance Berbatov beautifully put on a platter for him, his performance possibly would have been applauded, rather than berated. He played some nice balls, and always looked to pass it forward. Unfortunately we looked toothless in front of goal in every department, not just Berbatov. Kiko was poor, so there was little movement up front and no one to stretch the defence resulting in little focal point to build a decent attack from. From what I saw Berbatov became more and more frustrated as the game dragged on because of this.

I suppose the argument is Berbatov is a striker and therefore he should be stretching the defence and providing the movement up front, but he was obviously told to drop deep and provide Kiko. Obviously when Kiko came off, Berbatov was pushed further up but by then his confidence was shot and he was clearly frustrated- as were all our attacking players.

It was a strange performance to be honest, really quite lethargic for such an important game. None of our players covered themselves with glory, and as such Berbatov's performance suffered- he strives on the space created by Rooney/Nani/Valencia when they're stretching an oppositions defence with their pace. He was certainly not our worst player today, but you can tell he knows the pressure of carrying our goal scoring threat in the seasons climax, where one strike could be the difference between champions and runners up, is weighing on him. It's a lot of pressure for anyone to be honest, and he's never been a player to thrive under pressure.

I wish he wouldn't be so hard on himself, and I wish he would just stick his feckin laces through the ball at least once/twice a game. All this said though, he does frustrate when he lays a ball off and then seems to almost stop playing, where ideally he would lay a ball off and then make a run into the box. We have few enough players who are capable of making dangerous runs into the box as it is.
 
And to me, it seems clear that he becomes extremely influenced when the fans get on his back. He obviously thrives on confidence, as most players do, but he seems to need approval. Having SAF do what he did on Wednesday had to be a kick in the stones for him, regardless of whether SAF was right or wrong in what he did.
I agree. It seems he is very much a confidence player like Nani. Even more so.
 
Alright, fecks. Who's worse for United: Forlan or Berba?

And pretend you don't know their price tags for this one.
 
Playing deep does not mean you play as a midfielder who takes a slow jog into the penalty area whenever there's a chance. You are a striker after all,
He is TOLD to drop deep by his manager. Yet he is one of our slowest players and you expect him to break into the box quickly from such a position when that deep? Seriously? How in hell can a player that slow be expected to be in the box from that deep, by the time our wingers are ready to cross balls in?
 
Berba make slow runs into the box when our wingers are already hitting the byline - most times Berba is not in the box for a cross.

Now this in itself is not a problem as long as someone else is making those runs. But there is no way you can ask for midfielders to run past berba into the box and then when the ball break run past him towards our goals and defend - no one in the world can do that for a whole match - so blaming the midfield because they dont possess the pace of a sprinter to get into the box or the stamina of a marathon runner is creating a straw man.

Someone else that watches the game rather than looking up stats or pretending he knows what the player is thinking.

Post on.
 
He is told by his manager to drop deep. Yes, but not to play as a midfielder. There is a difference in positioning you know?

Exactly.

If he's a midfielder, then we definitely need to buy a striker.

And if he's a striker, he needs to occasionally pop into the 18 yard box.
 
He is told by his manager to drop deep. Yes, but not to play as a midfielder. There is a difference in positioning you know?

There is no way he could have been told to play so deep after Macheda was taken off. I do not believe for one second that SAF would make such a stupid decision.
 
Forlan scored some more important goals - chelsea and pool

And BOY does it get the fans singing!

But Berbatov's return is clearly better, and he didn't take anywhere near as long to get his first, and I recall how long that wait felt for Berbatov. Plus when our team functions, Berbatov makes it function even better. Sadly, he's not the one to MAKE our team function, it seems. That makes him a luxury player, which I thought would be a good thing, seeing as our team was looking quite solid, albeit a bit thin in terms of cover... but obviously it's not working.

Not the right fit for United? Very possibly.

Not fit to wear the shirt? We might've said that about Forlan back in the day... maybe some of you did. How the feck did he win the Pichichi then?

Shades of fecking grey people... it's where it's at.
 
He is told by his manager to drop deep. Yes, but not to play as a midfielder. There is a difference in positioning you know?
You're not getting it. When he drops deep. He is TOO slow to get forward fast enough. So he ends up looking like a midfielder. When you add that to our midfield playing as static as it was today, once Kiko went off we resembled a team playing with 4 static central midfielders and 2 wingers.
 
It's funny really because today he had the highest number of passes (apart from Neville and Scholes) and the 3rd highest successful pass rate. He played mostly on the right side of midfield to accomodate Macheda, who couldn't have played anywhere else with much success, yet he stills gets all this flak.

Why, he plays where he is supposed to play, does a sterling job there too and gets not one bit of credit.
 
You're not getting it. When he drops deep. He is TOO slow to get forward fast enough. So he ends up looking like a midfielder. When you add that to our midfield playing as static as it was today, once Kiko went off we resembled a team playing with 4 static central midfielders and 2 wingers.

So you're saying we're not utilising him correctly? Because it would be stupid, knowing how slow he is, to ask him to play THAT deep. If that's the case, then we really need to look at fergie's tactics. And like one of the above posters mentioned, I do not for one second believe that fergie asked him to play that deep once macheda went off.
 
You're not getting it. When he drops deep. He is TOO slow to get forward fast enough. So he ends up looking like a midfielder. When you add that to our midfield playing as static as it was today, once Kiko went off we resembled a team playing with 4 static central midfielders and 2 wingers.

That's true I suppose.

But to be fair Chief, he doesn't break his bollox to get into the box, unlike players like Nani, Fletcher, Rooney and Park seem to do if they're outside. He seems to amble in. His lack of genuine pace obviously is part of it though. He could make more of an effort to get onto the end of things though. If the midfielders can do it, so can he.
 
And BOY does it get the fans singing!

But Berbatov's return is clearly better, and he didn't take anywhere near as long to get his first, and I recall how long that wait felt for Berbatov. Plus when our team functions, Berbatov makes it function even better. Sadly, he's not the one to MAKE our team function, it seems. That makes him a luxury player, which I thought would be a good thing, seeing as our team was looking quite solid, albeit a bit thin in terms of cover... but obviously it's not working.

Not the right fit for United? Very possibly.

Not fit to wear the shirt? We might've said that about Forlan back in the day... maybe some of you did. How the feck did he win the Pichichi then?

Shades of fecking grey people... it's where it's at.
You're not seriously trying to big up Berbatov by comparing him to Forlan are you? What does Berbatov's record being better than Forlan have to do with anything. Heres a stat, Berbatov cost £31 million and is on £120,000 a week, and he wasn't bought to be a back-up striker like Forlan.

And even despite that, Forlan scored the more important goals!
 
It's funny really because today he had the highest number of passes (apart from Neville and Scholes) and the 3rd highest successful pass rate. He played mostly on the right side of midfield to accomodate Macheda, who couldn't have played anywhere else with much success, yet he stills gets all this flak.

Why, he plays where he is supposed to play, does a sterling job there too and gets not one bit of credit.

Brilliant, he had a lot of passes. Well done.
 
My thoughts regarding this Bulgarian: we never had such weak number 9 striker in the last 18 years. A number 9 player has to score golas and he doesn't.
 
It's funny really because today he had the highest number of passes (apart from Neville and Scholes) and the 3rd highest successful pass rate. He played mostly on the right side of midfield to accomodate Macheda, who couldn't have played anywhere else with much success, yet he stills gets all this flak.

Why, he plays where he is supposed to play, does a sterling job there too and gets not one bit of credit.

Stats don't tell the whole story though. That doesn't show how often he got caught in possession, which happened a fair bit in the second half.
 
In fairness, I think the berbafans on the whole are pretty willing to admit that although they support him and see his use, they expected more from him when he came. I think it's fairly clear that those at the other end of the spectrum have the more over the top approach to the discussion, because he clearly isn't "shit", clearly does care, and was at worst our joint most creative player today.

Absolutely. NOBODY will tell you that he has shown he's worth 30 mill pounds (such is the market, especially for United on the last day), nor has he done as well as his ability would suggest. Whereas what you'll hear from the Berba haters are condescending back-handed "compliments" about nice little pirouettes and backheels, but little substance... and certainly not enough running and hard work.
 
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