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Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
- Thread starter Rood
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I thought he was underwhielming again yesterday, his performance prior to his goal was very ordinary and wouldn't be up to scratch against a decent side. He did take his goal very well though.
The pass to Valencia was good but I want to see that sort of thing at crucial moments in the big matches, I remember Scholes doing a similar pass to Rooney against Milan in 06 when we were 1-2 down, Berbatov needs to make an impact at times like that.
The pass to Valencia was good but I want to see that sort of thing at crucial moments in the big matches, I remember Scholes doing a similar pass to Rooney against Milan in 06 when we were 1-2 down, Berbatov needs to make an impact at times like that.
I will say that at times his first time finishing looks awkward (which is odd, give that he scored good goals against Celtic, WBA, and Boro last season in that manner)
He needs to play in those matches first.
what the man needs is for the fans to chant his name. true fact
Wached the game and i think we tried 3 over the top balls. Rooney, Carrick and Bercas scoop
Rooney is a class, we know but I don't know why he didn't put backspin on the ball and carrick the same. In that short space, you put backspin on it so that it holds up rather then running through
Berbatovs scoop was class but he's shown a fair bit of that. His general ability is world class. There's no question. As a striker though he needs to up his ratio because he should be scoring 20 a season. His goal was fantastic and let's hope it encourages him
Rooney is a class, we know but I don't know why he didn't put backspin on the ball and carrick the same. In that short space, you put backspin on it so that it holds up rather then running through
Berbatovs scoop was class but he's shown a fair bit of that. His general ability is world class. There's no question. As a striker though he needs to up his ratio because he should be scoring 20 a season. His goal was fantastic and let's hope it encourages him
Anyone who's watched United over the last few years knows that's simply not true. We would've played 4-5-1 regardless who was in the team, and that's a certainty. Whether or not it was Ronaldo up front or on the right or if it was Rooney up front or on the left, it was always going to be 4-5-1.
Scholes has to play against Milan.
its almost certainly going to be a 4-5-1 away to milan
Lies, last season Berbatov played with Rooney in quite a few big games, the duo even teamed up this season at Anfield and against Leeds which I did regard as a big game. It has been tried and it has failed, I don't buy into the idea Sir Alex wants to play the way he has been doing in the big games.
If Berbatov turns on the magic like he does against relegation doomed Portsmoth when we are coasting in the big games he has played in, Sir Alex would have found a way to accomodate him because he would have convinced of his ability to be descisive in such big games for us.
Scholes in place of Giggs.
We'll be playing a midfield three anyway. If Giggs played, Park would be on the left with Giggs behind the striker, and I think we're shit when we line up like that.
Indeed, but any attempt at a chant for him has been rubbish.
In the big games, we play 4-5-1 more often than 4-4-2. And that's not a lie.
It's been that way for years.
Ferguson does not like losing the midfield in these games.
In the last two seasons for example, how many times have we played 4-4-2 against; Barcelona, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Inter, Porto and so on?
True. You can play 4-4-2 if you play narrow in midfield, but United traditionally like to play with wide men.
Against all these teams bar Barcelona Berbatov has started so I don't think it's correct to blame the formation for being him left out, I would look to his actual performances in those games. If he did the business he would be accomodated, that's what I believe, it's not like he's not been given the chance. Maybe yesterday is his level for us.
People are kidding themselves if they think Berbatov won't play in the big games regardless of form, its those games we bought him for. If he actually hit a purple patch of form Sir Alex would find a place for him, but how he played yesterday is not the sort of form thats going to get himself considered for the huge matches.
Which I agree with however in the big games we will more often than not line up 4-5-1 and the only place for Berbatov in that formation is as the 1. At the moment he has to get in ahead of Rooney which quite frankly isn't going to happen given his form/goal tally. Last year we also had Ronaldo who could play as the 1, just ask Arsenal
, and offered the flexibility/mobility to play through the middle, on the wings, etc.Berbatov is at his best in a 4-4-2. If we play 4-5-1 then Rooney's going to have to move left because there's no other place for Berbatov.
It's the same reason Rooney was often shunted out left in a 4-5-1 last year and not played primarily up front (where Ronaldo was favoured at times), Ferguson does what's best for the team to get results.
Berbatov's last goal in the champions league came on the 28th October in 2008, in last season's group stages against Celtic.
His only goal against one of the premier league's "big 4" was against Chelsea on 11th of Jan 2009 when we were already 2 goals up.
This is why he's not likely to start our big matches. He's given us no reason to start him in those matches.
His only goal against one of the premier league's "big 4" was against Chelsea on 11th of Jan 2009 when we were already 2 goals up.
This is why he's not likely to start our big matches. He's given us no reason to start him in those matches.
Ok checked the stats since he joined, if we count big games as Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, City and any knock-out Champions League tie, he has played in:
08/09
(A) Liverpool
(A) Chelsea
(A) Arsenal
(A) City
(H) Chelsea : 1 goal
(A) Inter
(H) Inter
(H) Liverpool (Sub)
(A) Porto
(H) Arsenal CL (Sub)
(A) Arsenal CL (Sub)
(H) City
(N) Barca (Sub)
09/10
(H) Arsenal (Sub)
(H) City
(A) Liverpool
(A) Arsenal (Sub)
So 11 starts, 1 goal. And even ignoring goals, how many of those games did he run the show or really show us what he is capable of? If he performs in games like those, like Milan coming up, all the question marks would go away. Its like Nani, hes done the business against Arsenal in a huge match and now the fans will cut him some slack.
08/09
(A) Liverpool
(A) Chelsea
(A) Arsenal
(A) City
(H) Chelsea : 1 goal
(A) Inter
(H) Inter
(H) Liverpool (Sub)
(A) Porto
(H) Arsenal CL (Sub)
(A) Arsenal CL (Sub)
(H) City
(N) Barca (Sub)
09/10
(H) Arsenal (Sub)
(H) City
(A) Liverpool
(A) Arsenal (Sub)
So 11 starts, 1 goal. And even ignoring goals, how many of those games did he run the show or really show us what he is capable of? If he performs in games like those, like Milan coming up, all the question marks would go away. Its like Nani, hes done the business against Arsenal in a huge match and now the fans will cut him some slack.
He's only started four since that though.
But I agree he's been underwhelming in the big games.
Nobody ever mentions that 6mill was a bargain price to force City to use Tevez's deformed features on the 'Welcome to Manchester' poster.
Who's been given more than 4 or 5 chances in big matches without doing their job convincingly? Even those 4 should be enough to say, well at least 1 time out of the 4 he was brilliant and scored an important goal.
So if we'd have bought the very same player from Leverkusen for £21m less two years earlier, expectations would be much lower and he'd have been performing above that level?
That just highlights the ridiculousness of it.
Why 21m? He cost Spurs 11m at the time.
Sorry, meant £21m less, I thought they got him for £9.75m!
10.9 is the fee according to Wiki, probably includes agent fees.
If we buy a player for £11 million it doesnt mean they are going straight into the first team as a first choice player. If Berbatov came to us for £11 million and played as he has done, I think most people would be fine with him being a player to try and change a match off the bench and as a backup to Rooney in our front 3 we are playing in big matches. That would have been some "value for money".
If you break the club record to sign a player, especially at a time when you're heavily in debt, that player needs to be first choice in your best 11 in the big matches. That player needs to be making the difference in your big league matches and champions league matches. Thats what you are paying for. Even moreso if the player is in his prime, not just a prospect, as you will not get a return on your investment if you wish to sell the player.
We could have bought Yakubu or someone for £11 million if the job was to sit on the bench and be a backup. Berbatov was meant to be more than that.
Judging a player by the fee paid for them is silly, that's the crux of it.
Nobody is judging the player based on the fee.
They are judging him based on his performances. And the expectation level is born from the fee.
The expectation level should be born from his previous performances, and he's performing below expectations.
The fee's largely irrelevant.
The fee's largely irrelevant.
The fee was paid because of his previous performances for Spurs and his country. Its one and the same thing, unless you sign a player on a bargain fee. We didnt quite manage that with Berbatov.
The expectation level is high because we were in the position to pick from most players in his position and we chose him.
To be as unconvincing as he has been so far means we probably made the wrong choice.
The fee we paid takes into consideration a lot of things besides performances.
I'm sure no-one, not even Levy or Ferguson, thinks Berbatov's performances were worth £30m.
Does Glaston count?
At the end of the day Sir Alex saw fit to spend the money on him. He must have felt his future performances would be worth £31 million, whether his previous ones had been or not. They haven't been.
I remember watching Berbatov in big games when he played for Spurs - FA Cup and Europa Cup semis I think. He missed sitter after sitter. He has yet to change my opinion that he doesn't step up for big games.
Hope he does.
Didn't Berbatov score against every one of the top four for Spurs?
No. He scored against 3 of the top 4 and the other one for Leverkusen way back when.
If you're Chelsea, Madrid or City maybe.
However, if you're a club thats in £700 million debt, then fee's for any player is important unfortunatly. If you spend a club record fee on a player, that player should not be sitting out big games. Its madness really. Do you honestly believe when Fergie signed Berbatov, he had in his mind that he'd be benched in the big games?
Sorry, the fee's largely irrelevant in this discussion.
As I've said, it's pretty clear he's performed below everyone's expectations.
As I've said, it's pretty clear he's performed below everyone's expectations.
No its not.
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