Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances

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Brwned said:
The fact he's much better off than Anelka despite so many people moaning about us signing Berbatov instead of him is quite interesting.
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Last season Anelka scored 19 goals while Berba 9. 153mins per goal for Anelka and 284mins per goal for Berba. Plus Berba cost twice as much, so they had a point. And he's not someone who leads the line while Anelka can. Most people probably still have Rooney as someone who plays in the hole in their head. Thank god for SAF and his vision of Rooney as the furthest forward striker.

Hope the injury is behind him now. He's not playing well lately it has to be said but he's making contributions that shows on the stats page. 4 goals and 3 assists in his last 7/8 appearances(4 starts).
 
Wan said:
Last season Anelka scored 19 goals while Berba 9. 153mins per goal for Anelka and 284mins per goal for Berba. Plus Berba cost twice as much, so they had a point. And he's not someone who leads the line while Anelka can. Most people probably still have Rooney as someone who plays in the hole in their head. Thank god for SAF and his vision of Rooney as the furthest forward striker.

Hope the injury is behind him now. He's not playing well lately it has to be said but he's making contributions that shows on the stats page. 4 goals and 3 assists in his last 7/8 appearances(4 starts).
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Yup, statistically he has been in good form.
 
An average of a goal every 45 minutes in his last 6 appearances.

Impressive, even for someone who contributes nothing else to the game.
 
I'd prefer the line up we started with against Arsenal when we face Milan.

Berbatov can come off the bench.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
I'd prefer the line up we started with against Arsenal when we face Milan.
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I suspect this is what we will get in Milan but perhaps not at Old Trafford. Still not sure how we would fit in Berbatov if we're playing 3 in midfield which we need to do in Europe.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I suspect this is what we will get in Milan but perhaps not at Old Trafford. Still not sure how we would fit in Berbatov if we're playing 3 in midfield which we need to do in Europe.
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The team just seems more fluid and threatening without him.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I suspect this is what we will get in Milan but perhaps not at Old Trafford. Still not sure how we would fit in Berbatov if we're playing 3 in midfield which we need to do in Europe.
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He'd have to play the "Scholes role" of our Arsenal lineup. Which also means he'd have to defend like a central midfielder.
 
Brwned said:
The fact he's much better off than Anelka despite so many people moaning about us signing Berbatov instead of him is quite interesting.
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Heh. I like Berba, but I think you're trying to convince yourself of something that's just not true. Merely looking at stats doesn't paint an accurate picture of how good a player is. Anelka was leading the line when Drogba was injured or at the African Cup and Chelsea were winning those games (admittedly against weaker opposition), but then Berba hasn't got his goals against world beaters either. I also think this season Anelka has also scored more important goals (1st, 2nd goal that decides / wins / saves games). Berba has scored most of his after we were already comfortable.
 
Sorry, so much better off statistically-speaking.
 
I don't know why I keep getting dragged back into these threads.

I'm a big fan of his, but he's been a bit patchy in his time here. He's capable of being outstanding for us, but he isn't doing it as regularly as his talent should allow for. That said, I think we generally tend to be a better team with him in it than not. He's also being judged to a far higher standard than most of our players by some of our supporters, which leads me to......

His price-tag should have nothing to do with it at this point. We've paid the money, the bulk of which we won't see again regardless. We bought a player in his late twenties for what he can offer us on the field, not the balance sheet in the future. The judging of players based on what they were bought for, or what people perceive a £30m player should do, is only one of the ways you ought to judge players . It's just being used as (another) stick to beat him with by some.
 
Brwned said:
An average of a goal every 45 minutes in his last 6 appearances.

Impressive, even for someone who contributes nothing else to the game.
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Contributes nothing else??? what games are you watching? Did you see the scooped pass?
 
Stack said:
Contributes nothing else??? what games are you watching? Did you see the scooped pass?
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No I mean it'd be an impressive record even if a player contributed nothing else but that.

That was a brilliant piece of play which he started off with quite a decent pass sprayed out to Valencia. Slows down our play my arse.

He has quite a good understanding with Valencia I think, wasn't too dissimilar from the one-two-three in the Wolfsburg match.
 
God the Berbatouch is something to adore.

That goal was a peach as well.

I hope this is the start of good things, he found himself in more aggressive positions through the match and looekd well up for it.
 
I'm actually quite content with Berbatov's goal return this season. It's his all around play that's leaving something to be desired. We all know that Berbatov is such a talented footballer that we expect such great things from him (especially taking his price tag into consideration). He hasn't been bad this season, but he hasn't been great either. Acceptable but not exceptional.
 
Isn't it just easier to not take his price tag into consideration, like, at all?
 
Brwned said:
Isn't it just easier to not take his price tag into consideration, like, at all?
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I like to think of him as a big bag of money with arms and legs running about.

I think most don't consider how much he cost and are just wanting a player to step up, play with confidence and score goals. He gets a lot of attention not because of what he cost but because he's one of two experienced strikers on our team. We'd be giving the same attention to any striker who is supposed to be playing along side Rooney.

Owens in old and ineffectual. The new God is inexperienced. And the rest are young.
 
Brwned said:
Isn't it just easier to not take his price tag into consideration, like, at all?
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Well, no, because when a club spends a significant amount of money on a player, they expect significant performances from said player.

This coupled with the fact that he's supposed to be one of our starting strikers and the fact that he is exceptionally talented means his performances have been underwhelming.
 
johnmufc said:
Well, no, because when a club spends a significant amount of money on a player, they expect significant performances from said player.

This coupled with the fact that he's supposed to be one of our starting strikers and the fact that he is exceptionally talented means his performances have been underwhelming.
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If Berbatov priced himself at £30m, then you can use it to beat him with.

We only paid £30m because we cocked up the whole transfer and tried to get him for £20m, when Spurs wanted £24m and ended up paying more when we tapped him up.

You can say he's been underwhelming, whatever, but it's totally backwards to complain about him when we're the ones who wanted to pay the price, not he. It had NOTHING to do with him, and everything to do with us being tight and Levy.
 
Devilton said:
I also think this season Anelka has also scored more important goals (1st, 2nd goal that decides / wins / saves games). Berba has scored most of his after we were already comfortable.
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I've read this claim a few times today, and, as I've said elsewhere, it is bollocks.

Four of his goals have been our first, and he's doubled our lead twice. Only 25% (two) of his goals have come when we were comfortable.

Anelka is still better than him in this regard, but his stats are exceptional. Six of eight has been their first goal of the match. The other two has been seconds.

But to be fair you'll have to assume that if Berbatov had played 500 minutes more he'd have scored a few more goals, both important and "unimportant" ones.
 
Berbs has everything as a player but just dont ask him to run or have the speed of Ronaldo, Rooney or Torres.
 
My thought is that Berbatov slows down our attack, but I know others think the world of him. Suffice it to say as long as United win, I don't care if he plays or not. However:

1) If one asks the question whether we can win the league without him, the answer for me is an emphatic "Yes".

2) If he is such a brilliant player, he'd have started in last season's CL games at the Emirates and in the Final.
 
manusteve said:
1) If one asks the question whether we can win the league without him, the answer for me is an emphatic "Yes".
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What does that even mean? Can we win the league if he was simply removed from the squad and not replaced? That would certainly make things harder, and it already looks tough enough.

2) If he is such a brilliant player, he'd have started in last season's CL games at the Emirates and in the Final.
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That's off target. SAF usually prefers three in midfield and one up front in those games. Obviously very special players tend to force themselves into the team, so if Berbatov was as good as Ronaldo or Rooney, SAF would probably have found a place for him. (Although even Rooney was benched away to Inter, or whenever it was.) But it is crazy to expect Berbatov to be that good. In short, he is not such a brilliant player, if you by "such a brilliant player" you mean "in the class of Rooney and Ronaldo". I have not seen anybody express that opinion though.
 
Laphroaig said:
What does that even mean? Can we win the league if he was simply removed from the squad and not replaced? That would certainly make things harder, and it already looks tough enough.

That's off target. SAF usually prefers three in midfield and one up front in those games. Obviously very special players tend to force themselves into the team, so if Berbatov was as good as Ronaldo or Rooney, SAF would probably have found a place for him. (Although even Rooney was benched away to Inter, or whenever it was.) But it is crazy to expect Berbatov to be that good. In short, he is not such a brilliant player, if you by "such a brilliant player" you mean "in the class of Rooney and Ronaldo". I have not seen anybody express that opinion though.
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Thanks for your response. I think what I am trying to say about the Premiership challenge is that he has offered little in a season-and-a-half. Whether his price was £30m, £20m, £10m is irrelevant. I hate the way the price-tag is used as a reverse argument for his form or state-of-mind (i.e. big price tag, expectation, etc.). I just personally remain to be convinced by his effectiveness for United.
 
manusteve said:
2) If he is such a brilliant player, he'd have started in last season's CL games at the Emirates and in the Final.
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As would Tevez, who managed just one start and one sub appearance in the three matches you mentioned. Some claim he's simply world class yet he didn't start some of the most "important" matches. Berbatov appeared in all three matches, subbing on for an ineffective Tevez in one of them.
 
manusteve said:
Thanks for your response. I think what I am trying to say about the Premiership challenge is that he has offered little in a season-and-a-half. Whether his price was £30m, £20m, £10m is irrelevant. I hate the way the price-tag is used as a reverse argument for his form or state-of-mind (i.e. big price tag, expectation, etc.). I just personally remain to be convinced by his effectiveness for United.
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He was the leading assist maker in the premiership last season and is in early february one premiership goal off his premiership tally for all of last season. He's not been stellar but pricetag aside he's made telling contributions
 
Looked a tad rusty today but Im sure the goal with help his confidence.

It seems like he is trying a little too hard out there. This is affecting his finishing.

Despite the poor finishing he is still capable of some incredible passes and skill (chip to Valencia was out of this world).

He really needs to work on his heading. How many times has he gotten a free point blank header only to hit is straight at the keeper?

Here's hoping he will catch fire along with Rooney in the run in. We will need him.
 
MrMarcello said:
As would Tevez, who managed just one start and one sub appearance in the three matches you mentioned. Some claim he's simply world class yet he didn't start some of the most "important" matches. Berbatov appeared in all three matches, subbing on for an ineffective Tevez in one of them.
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Couldn't be a more irrelevant comment, except to stir up the same old shit. Kudos. You can't have a thread about Berbatov without bringing up Tevez, can you?
 
decent enough player to have in the squad. seems like he won't moan if he's not playing regularly so all in all not to fussed. mind you, never in a million years was he 'value for money'. but i guess when we bought him, that wasn't such a big criteria as it is now.
 
manusteve said:
My thought is that Berbatov slows down our attack, but I know others think the world of him. Suffice it to say as long as United win, I don't care if he plays or not. However:


2) If he is such a brilliant player, he'd have started in last season's CL games at the Emirates and in the Final.
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Absolutely he probably won't start against Milan either but Park will.Last season SAF said that he never had a clue how best to play Berbatov and i feel he still is not willing to experiment with him in the bigger games.
 
Drifter said:
Absolutely he probably won't start against Milan either but Park will.Last season SAF said that he never had a clue how best to play Berbatov and i feel he still is not willing to experiment with him in the bigger games.
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I totally agree. Berbatov is without a doubt a great player and has out of this world touch and skill but I dont think he is suited for this team at all. I know this has been said countless times but at Tottenham when he was a class striker he was feeding off Keane who plays the out an out striker role.

Rooney up top with 5 in the midfield is looking potent at the moment in big games.
 
He is an extremely classy player, his touches and flicks are mental at times, like the pass for Valencia yesterday in the box.

Put simply, Berbatov is the kind of player who is better for the big games - games when we sometimes need to slow down the play or have someone who can hold the ball up. Unfortunately, in these same games we normally play 4-5-1, and Rooney will pretty much always be preferred to Berbatov as the striker in that formation.
Whilst I am really happy for Rooney to be finally playing in the middle rather than out wide, I wonder if we may need to push him out wide anyway during the run in and use Berbatov as the striker, Rooney playing his wing-forward role would combine well with Berbatov I imagine.

We may need to do this from time to time to help rotate the squad and keep everyone fit - Giggs must be getting a bit tired, Park has only been a fringe player, we have little other backup for Valencia and Nani on the wings.
 
Even my mother was loving the Berbascoop on MOTD.

The debate will rumble on. My hope is that he keeps getting on the scoresheet when he gets in the team, then the entire debate becomes somewhat irrelevant.

I think we'll go Rooney AND Berbatov against Milan.
 
nemanja15 said:
^ Certainly in the home game we will, and I think we'll see them at Villa Park this week as well :)
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Yeah, as Pogue said in another thread (or was it this one?), the three subs were quite telling.

RE the CL games - I think the emphasis in Europe is obviously more geared towards retaining the ball and that's why I think Berbatov will get the nod alongside Rooney. The ball won't stick as well up front if it's just Rooney on his own.
 
Though we tend to favour a 451 in big games, I think the lack of pace in Milan's team, combined with how good they are at keeping the ball might see Berbatov play.
 
Brophs said:
Though we tend to favour a 451 in big games, I think the lack of pace in Milan's team, combined with how good they are at keeping the ball might see Berbatov play.
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As I said before, we tend to go 4-5-1 when there is a concern re the opposition midfield. It makes sense to flood the midfield and ensure that we can get a foothold in those circumstances.

Having seen a fair bit of Milan this season, I wouldn't worry about losing the midfield battle in all honesty. I reckon we'd control proceedings with a midfield of Giggs-Fletcher-Carrick and a right winger.

You can better control a game sometimes by having a second striker and I think this is one of those occasions. Really this fixture, against these opponents should be tailor made for Berbatov.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
at home possibly. i highly doubt berba will be in the first XI for milan away.
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Who knows how we'll go, but we did it against Inter in the first leg last time out and I think that was a harder game than this.

The third midfielder against Milan would be overkill. Especially when we could select Giggs...
 
I love it how he turns on the magic against these bottom half teams when their backs are against the ropes, stumbling, waiting for his knock out blow. It is well worth the entrance fee alone as the tricks and flicks come out with great frequency.

"You dealt with me well in the first half Ben H but your demise was inevitable."
 
Crap first half and good second half yesterday, that pass was pure magic though. The good thing about him is that even when he looks very average he still could produce something special.
 
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