Very good post that.
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
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Very good post that.
Coming from the man who appears to have zero life except for this forum, I find that amusing.
I've posted maybe 7 or 8 posts over the past two weeks in Berba/Tevez threads. I guess if you spent a minute or two out in the daylight, you might see that it's not all that much. But when someone posts a bit and you spend as much time as you do hitting refresh, it obviously seems like a lot.
Therapy is one way to go.
Were you? i thought you were all lining up to criticise him yet again after a performance that didnt merit anything of the sort....
Like i said before theres no point in bothering with people like you whove clearly got a mind made up agenda on the player wherby it matters little what he actually does on the pitch....sad really..
Just think if United would have been willing to spend the same amount on Torres. That said Berbatov is improving, slowly, but he is improving.
He was much better against Wigan than he has been. Still more is needed from him though, more productivity and more consistency. He has the talent to do it anyway. Personally, I'm not sure a Rooney-Berbatov partnership will ever be that good, as both like to play too deep and don't like being an advanced forward.
He showed a willingness to run in behind the defence a few times, even if he didnt have the pace to get away from the defence the few times he had a chance to. At least he was changing it up a little and trying to create some space in behind himself instead of being behind the ball.
Most people on here have a very reasoned and not so brutal evaluation of Berbatov. Mine has always been the same from day one. Square peg, round hole. I said that when the transfer talks heated up and I've never said anything else.
To you, the man who wants to give Berbatov a hot, oily rub down, this is an terrible assault.
Mirror. Look at one.
So that dosnt include you then?...
And seriously stop acting like a child....if you want to be patronising then i suggest you work on it....all these strange insinuations make one wonder if youve got something you want to confess.... maybe you have some inbound burning desires of rubbing your hands slowly across male genitalia....you seem quite worryingly obsessed with the idea of rubbing hands over men...
But maybe this isnt the right forum for you to come out on such an issue...
Jesus, you're amazing. Take a look at the word hyperbole in the dictionary. I'm currently using it.
You began the ridiculous attack on me, by saying I've hated him since...blah blah blah.
I turned it around, used the exact same tactic on you and you're off to baby land.
Well played.
Probably the biggest reason why there is so much frustration about him, he clearly has it in him, and at this point he has no excuses, he is settled at United and he isn't a youngster. Here's to a great season for the lawnmower man.
FFS he hasn't got his hands at the 9 and 3 o'clock position. What a useless cock!
What a load of pishI'd be absolutely bloody delighted if Berbatov made himself a United great. Or simply a very effective and dangerous player for us
But it hasn't happened so far, has it? It's not negativity, negativity, negativity. Rather it's reality, reality, reality
I'd be absolutely bloody delighted if Berbatov made himself a United great. Or simply a very effective and dangerous player for us
But it hasn't happened so far, has it? It's not negativity, negativity, negativity. Rather it's reality, reality, reality
Thumbs up!
That's not particularly true I'm afraid. Of course everyone wants their strikers scoring goals. Everything else coming second? Not so sure
As for my preferences, my favourite player is Cantona, who while a productive scorer, wasn't breaking a goal every other game, and my current favourite player is Rooney, who until this season didn't score too many goals either, and certainly had a hell of a lot more to his game to appreciate
My issue with Berbatov is that while I think what he does on the ball is often useful and productive, it doesn't 1) happen often enough, I think he could work harder to get himself more involved in the game, 2) occur in the right areas of the pitch often enough, something Ferguson may have to take a share of the blame for, and 3) I'm just not entirely convinced he's the right partner for Rooney, or of the right ilk to be a consistently top player for Manchester United
Those are perfectly reasonable criticisms, many would identify with what I say there, and it's certainly been borne out on the pitch. Sadly airing them leads to a torrent of abuse and resentment from those who won't have a bad word said about a player who, by his own admission, hasn't performed to the required standard
Well said, Brad. I think Berbatov is a good players who has many creative elements to his game. I also acknowledge his improvement in comparison to last season. But for me, strikers are judged on their goals and if they don't score enough they have to have many things to their game that make up for those missing goals. Berbatov doesn't score enough, and whilst he's able to produce moments of magic at times, it doesn't happen often enough. And often enough he doesn't look like a player who can force wins or who can push himself to 200%. When Ruud was on the pitch, I always knew that we had someone on the pitch who was able to score goals for fun and who could win us games. Rooney is not a clinical striker, but he still has a fighting spirit and can win you games. Berbatov is totally different and it's something I can't get used to. It would have been fun to see how a fighter like Keano would have reacted to a player like Berbatov.
I also share your opinion that he's not the best partner for Rooney.
Happy new year, BTW - may it be a good one.
Strikers are judged on their goals.. blabla. That one sentence just proved that no matter what Berbatov does, you won't acknowledge him. And that fighter talk, Ruud stuff.. you just have the wrong idea.
Does this mean that Sir Alex Ferguson won't acknowledge him no matter what he does? This is an original quote from SAF: "I think strikers are a wee bit like that. They’ll be judged by the goals they score – that’s why they’re called strikers."
A striker of Berbatov's type is not just judged on his goals. He's expected to be setting them up too. Because while his scoring record is much better this season, its not amazing at all. Its not as good as the best strikers out there.
But he has more to bring to the table in terms of creating for others than a majority of the strikers who have better goalscoring records than he does. And thats where he should be able to make up the difference. However, he hasnt created much at all this season unlike last season.
Nah. He knows what Berba brings to the table. That's why he played him between Rooney and the midfield last season.Does this mean that Sir Alex Ferguson won't acknowledge him no matter what he does? This is an original quote from SAF: "I think strikers are a wee bit like that. They’ll be judged by the goals they score – that’s why they’re called strikers."
True he doesn't have stats to back him up this season unlike last. But he was playing quite well before he got injured. And right now he's only feeling his way back in. Hopefully scoring in the last two games will help him discover that early season form and improve on it.
Oh I spend loads of time on here, you got that right.
Hence, it's easy to spot a sad sack like yourself whose only contribution to the forum seems to be whining about one specific member of the team (along with this recent diversion into juvenile homoerotic insults)
Let it go. Tevez wanted to play for City. Berbatov is here til the end of the season, probably longer. You really should at least try to talk about some of the many other talking points that comes with being a fan of this club. Surely you've got more to offer than all this tedious sniping about one player?
Lailiani
Those two sums it up for me. And I end with one more good post from Brad.
Btw Happy New Year to all of you. I have 3 dm of cold snow outside my house, on top of the 6 dm snow we had 2 days ago. I blame the new climate-situatiuon
Anyone who is happy with Berba's performance is probably living in Lala land. At 28 you expect a 30m rated striker to lead our forward line rather then show flashes of brilliance. Berba had failed to do so, so no I am not happy with his performance so far.
Stating that, if you put Rooney aside, he is our best striker. He is light years away from Giggs (as a striker), Welbeck, Macheda and that tiny striker who tend to vanish whenever facing a decent defense. Berba's close control, his ability to create chances and his distribution of the ball is enough to allow him to be considered as a first teamer in this current setup. Whether he can stop United from bringing in a new striker to actually partner Rooney is a totally different matter.
Stating that, if you put Rooney aside, he is our best striker. He is light years away from Giggs (as a striker), Welbeck, Macheda and that tiny striker who tend to vanish whenever facing a decent defense. Berba's close control, his ability to create chances and his distribution of the ball is enough to allow him to be considered as a first teamer in this current setup. Whether he can stop United from bringing in a new striker to actually partner Rooney is a totally different matter.
WE did. He just didn't' deem as worthy of his signature.
That's not entirely true though is it? There was a point where we could have made a serious bid but our scouts did express some doubt about his finishing and whether he could score in the English league on a consistent basis. I'll have to dig up the source, but i'm sure I have heard / read that whoever advised SAF on Torres did express some doubts about him and that's perhaps why we didn't make a full fledged offer for him.
Going to liverpool was always an option but i refuse to believe that had we really shown serious interest he would have turned us down. We had such a great team at that point surely common sense would have prevailed.
Berbatov starts
P 12
W 10
D 1
L 1
F 31
Pts 31/36
Berbatov doesn't start
P 8
W 4
D 0
L 4
F 13
Pts 12/24
That in itself is pretty telling.
P 12
W 10
D 1
L 1
F 31
Pts 31/36
Berbatov doesn't start
P 8
W 4
D 0
L 4
F 13
Pts 12/24
That in itself is pretty telling.
If he had common sense he wouldn't have gone to Liverpool. I like Torres, in fact he's probably the only Scouser I actually do like but this career decision wasn't his wisest.
I assume he loved the club and was further convinced by the fact their manager is Spanish.
Didn't Fergie say something like we were after him for years but everytime Torres said he was not ready to leave Atletico and eventually we gave up interest. Edit: Found the quotes
Ferguson: I wanted Torres for Man Utd - Telegraph
Ferguson: I wanted Torres for Man Utd - Telegraph
It tells you he didn't start some of our toughest games this season, ay
From his performances, I struggle to see what difference Berbatov would have made in any of the games we've lost that he didn't start. He's come on the pitch in several of them and been unable to do anything to turn it around
Those stats are quite deceiving. Berba didn't start in many of the games ever since our defensive crisis, as we had to play one striker in front in order to bolster the defence/midfield. Also, Berba hasn't started in many of the big games, in which it is more likely that we would concede points. I am a big fan of Berbatov, but those stats mean nothing IMO
Hmm, started in the Charity Shield against Chelsea, started against Liverpool, started against City. He didn't start against Arsenal, we were very fortunate to win, he didn't start against Chelsea, we lost. Burnley, Villa and Fulham were also games we lost in his absence. So he's started most of our 'toughest' games.
I don't think Berbatov is a Solskjaer type player who can come on and make a difference late on in a game. If he starts, we generally win more games, score more goals, and play better football.
To be fair, against Arsenal Berba came on and missed an absolute sitter after a great pass from I think Nani?, doubt people would have suggested we were fortunate to win if he buried it.
Also I wouldn't count the Charity shield personally.
The fact you had to bring a barely meaningful pre season game into it speaks volumes
If you think a lack of Berbatov was the defining reason why we've lost the games we have this season, you're absolutely barking
Games he started in
Birmingham
Wigan
Tottenham
City
Stoke
Sunderland
Bolton
Liverpool
Blackburn
Wolves
Hull
Wigan
Games he didn't start in
Arsenal
Burnley
West Ham
Villa
Fulham
Chelsea
Everton
Portsmouth
Check out the sides that he didn't play against. Mostly all of them were tough fixtures.
Hence that stat looks good.
He came on and got involved in the game. Yes he missed the sitter, but he's never been a clinical 1 shot 1 goal type player. He needs a few chances to score a goal. He brings much more to the team than goals though. Of course, unless he's banging them in like Ruud, and running around like Tevez, he'll never be acknowledged by some.
Just answer me one question. When Berbatov starts, do we play better?
I didn't say it was the defining reason, I just posted up some stats.
Spot on. Hasn't been woeful as such. But to say he is the reason why we lost those matches/ he makes our team play better is far from the truth.
Every United fan wants him to succeed, but to say that he is playing well is stupid
Most of them are games where were we needed to win the midfield battle and opted for a third man i midfield instead of 2 up front. Berbatov up front on his own doesn't work. It doesn't really work with Rooney either, but he's just done it a lot more.
I didn't say he was the reason we lost those matches.
He was our best and most consistent player up until he started having troubles with his knee. Since then he's not been playing as well as he has, which isn't a surprise because, well he's not been fully fit. Despite that though, he's scored 2 goals. But wait! Those 2 goals weren't match-winning goals, so we shouldn't include them, obviously. In fact he hasn't scored any goals this season.
He'll be accepted if he's banging them in like Berbatov circa 2006-08, although expecting a bit better wouldn't be unreasonable given that he's got better players around him.
Berbatov in that period had pretty much the perfect partner in Keane. Those 2 together were arguably the best pairing in the Premiership, probably just behind Rooney and Saha.
But thats the point isn't it. When we had a formidible front 2, we wouldn't have had to drop a striker to play an extra man in midfield. We would have gone ahead and played 2 strikers like the CL finals of 2008.
Ask yourself this question. Out of the 5 games we lost, do you think Berbatov would've made a difference if he had started? And don't deflect it by saying, oh but our midfield was poor then.
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