Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances

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Our results with him in the team are significantly better than our results without him, so you are talking out of your arse here...

Think that has more to do with him just being significantly better than our other options than anything else.

Chances are the win % ratio would be much better with any striker we've bought that cost £30m.

And then there's the limited amount of big games he's started which makes the stats slightly more favourable.

I mean, I'm glad to have him in the team but that stat that you continually bring up isn't the be all and end all.

Personally I think stats like possession(which has improved a lot since his signing) is more relevant because it's something he's directly contributing to that everyone can see.
 
the simple fact is that that the team in successful DESPITE him being a part of it

Nah, that's just bias. It's pretty obvious that our attacking play is better with him in the starting XI. I've missed his ability to link the attack and midfield during his latest injury.
 
Think that has more to do with him just being significantly better than our other options than anything else.

Chances are the win % ratio would be much better with any striker we've bought that cost £30m.

And then there's the limited amount of big games he's started which makes the stats slightly more favourable.

I mean, I'm glad to have him in the team but that stat that you continually bring up isn't the be all and end all.

Personally I think stats like possession(which has improved a lot since his signing) is more relevant because it's something he's directly contributing to that everyone can see.


take a bow son

on the other hand- keeping possession has always been what Manchester United are famous for :rolleyes:
 
take a bow son

on the other hand- keeping possession has always been what Manchester United are famous for :rolleyes:

The difference between 07/08 and 08/09 was like 7% difference over the whole season.

That's a very big difference. Berbatov's a big reason for that, and I'm sure Sir Alex had it in mind as one of Berbatov's biggest assets.
 
The difference between 07/08 and 08/09 was like 7% difference over the whole season.

That's a very big difference. Berbatov's a big reason for that, and I'm sure Sir Alex had it in mind as one of Berbatov's biggest assets.

i hope you didn't get me wrong

what i meant was that keeping possession is something indifferent to Manchester United let along the English league. Berbatov is that kind of striker who would fit in to any top Italian or Spanish club. But here in England and in Man United strikers of his type are kinda ....weird.
 
Can't believe I'm going to say this but i think he will be perfect for the game against Milan.
 
It is all very worrying. I admire the way some posters keep looking for anything positive Berba does and cream themselves and post multiple threads when he makes a half decent pass.

But Jesus the guy is a shadow of his former self. He has no confidence when playing with Utd in and around the goal. This explains why he takes so few shots unless he has no other option but to have a go, and also explains why he is still scoring freely for Bulgaria. He clearly does not feel the same pressure on international duty. Which when we signed him, nerves is something I did not think he would suffer from. The similarities to Veron's tenure are uncanny. And it is almost tragic how such a cool customer has become almost a nervous wreck with Utd.

Nobody doubts his ability. But the only thing that matters is what you do for 90 mins on match day. I would take Saha, Tevez or Ruud back in a flash to replace him. Berbatov technically is a better player than all three. But He would be last on my list to bring on to help the team earn a point or a win.

Really? Tevez? Pretty sure that Berbatov's goal tally and assists rounds up to more than Tevez did. I always feel that Berbatov contributes more in a single game than Tevez does. Tevez just never seemed like a goal threat. Has a hard time scoring one on one vs the keeper. He's the same with City. Scored twice for them, the second one a Cech blunder.
 
Think that has more to do with him just being significantly better than our other options than anything else.

Chances are the win % ratio would be much better with any striker we've bought that cost £30m.

And then there's the limited amount of big games he's started which makes the stats slightly more favourable.

I mean, I'm glad to have him in the team but that stat that you continually bring up isn't the be all and end all.

Personally I think stats like possession(which has improved a lot since his signing) is more relevant because it's something he's directly contributing to that everyone can see.

Fully agree here, the question wasn't whether he has contributed as much as a 30m striker should/would have contributed(which he hasn't IMO) but whether we were successful despite having him in our squad. I see things roughly as Meulensteen sees them:

DIMITAR Berbatov has been singled out as the player to take Manchester United to "another level" - but the mercurial Bulgarian continues to split opinion at Old Trafford.

One of Sir Alex Ferguson's most trusted confidants, first team coach Rene Meulensteen, is convinced Berbatov can become a United legend - if he can get on the same wavelength as his teammates.

The debate about the £30.75m striker rages on a season-and-a-half since he was signed from Tottenham on a dramatic transfer deadline day in September last year. But with just four goals in 18 appearances this season there can be little argument that United are yet to get their money's worth.

Against Wolves on Tuesday night, he took his current sparse run to one goal in his last eight appearances at club level, even if some of those have been as a substitute.

But the question marks surrounding Berbatov are not so much what has gone, but what is still to come from a man who Ferguson fought so doggedly to sign.

His detractors argue that his work rate is simply not good enough; that too often his languid style breaks down promising attacks and that his strike rate nothing like what is expected of a top class, international forward.

His supporters, however, claim he has a rare ability to unlock defences. That he is one of the most technically gifted players in the Premier League - and that his inconsistent performances for United are a result of his team-mates not being on his wavelength and therefore unable to capitalise on his vision.

The truth probably lies somewhere in between - but at a time when United appear to be hitting their free-scoring best, Berbatov has been conspicuous by his absence.

Berbatov admitted this week that the size of his club record price-tag had weighed heavily on his shoulders. And the Manchester Evening News' message boards are constantly filled with debate as to whether he is up to the task of being a United star.

But Meulensteen insists he has all the attributes to not only succeed at Old Trafford, but lead United back to the summit of European football.

"I can understand fans' point of view," said the man who played a pivotal role in Cristiano Ronaldo's development at United. "But the manager brought him here for obvious reasons.

United tempo

"I like him as a player. I've always said to him that that he can take United to a different level than most other players can. What he needs to understand is that United is a high-energy team that wants to play with tempo - attractive, forward-playing football.

"It is a combination of marrying the two things together."

Ferguson admitted in the summer that he had not used Berbatov correctly in his first season at United, insisting he would play him further forward this term.

There have been few signs of that working this season with Berbatov actually scoring six goals in his first 18 appearances last year, two better off than he is now.

Meulensteen's comments are further evidence that United are struggling to incorporate his style into their play, but the Dutch coach insists he can live up to his lofty reputation.

"Berbatov has certain qualities like drifting into spaces and cutting in the ball and not everyone appreciates the quality he can produce," he said. "I think he still knows there is another level or a couple of other levels still to come.

"Everyone is looking forward to that because if we see the best of Berbatov then I don't think we are going to lose many games."
 
Really? Tevez? Pretty sure that Berbatov's goal tally and assists rounds up to more than Tevez did. I always feel that Berbatov contributes more in a single game than Tevez does. Tevez just never seemed like a goal threat. Has a hard time scoring one on one vs the keeper. He's the same with City. Scored twice for them, the second one a Cech blunder.

Tevez, playing well, always looks more of a goal threat than Berbatov, playing well, but thats mainly to do with their styles.

Tevez will keep at something and keep trying again and again. If he puts a shot wide from 20 yards, he wont hesitate to try the same shot again 3 minutes later if its on. So he'll generally look like scoring more often because he looks like he has the bit between his teeth trying to make something happen.

Whereas with Berbatov he generally plays like he doesnt care if he gets a goal. Most of his time with us he doesnt even have a shot in a game.

Berbatov produced more last season when to be fair both Berbatov (attacking midfield?) and Tevez (leading the line) were played out of position for some reason. Tevez has produced more this season when both players have been playing in their more natural roles in a side. 4 goals and 2 assists in 14 league matches for Berbatov and 5 goals, 5 assists for Tevez in 13 league matches.
 
Tevez, playing well, always looks more of a goal threat than Berbatov, playing well, but thats mainly to do with their styles.

Tevez will keep at something and keep trying again and again. If he puts a shot wide from 20 yards, he wont hesitate to try the same shot again 3 minutes later if its on. So he'll generally look like scoring more often because he looks like he has the bit between his teeth trying to make something happen.

Whereas with Berbatov he generally plays like he doesnt care if he gets a goal. Most of his time with us he doesnt even have a shot in a game.

Berbatov produced more last season when to be fair both Berbatov (attacking midfield?) and Tevez (leading the line) were played out of position for some reason. Tevez has produced more this season when both players have been playing in their more natural roles in a side. 4 goals and 2 assists in 14 league matches for Berbatov and 5 goals, 5 assists for Tevez in 13 league matches.

Only Rooney has had more shots. Berbatov has only started 10 games so far. 38 shots. How's that not a shot in a game?

The whole time Tevez was at United I never thought he was likely to score in the box. His playing style I also find very frustrating. He hinders the team. He's just not effective as a striker. At least not when playing with players better than him. 49 goals in 156 games in England. Wouldn't say he's worth the money. His performance with Argetina is hardly memorable. 8 goals in 51. And talking about wanting to quit because he isn't performing. How's that for trying to make things happen?

Wouldn't say Berbatov is worth his pricetag either but he would be if we'd payed Tottenham money for him and not that ridiculous amount IMO he would be.

I just don't like Tevez as a whole. He just doesn't make sense. Says that football is his life and he wouldn't dream of doing anything else but then talks abouth retiring with Argentina at the age of 26? What's that about?
At least I enjoy watching Berbatov play. His touch on the ball is unique and the goals he creates are magnificent. I'll prefer that over Tevez any day.
 
Tevez has more goals and assists then Berbatov this season :(
 
Only Rooney has had more shots. Berbatov has only started 10 games so far. 38 shots. How's that not a shot in a game?

The whole time Tevez was at United I never thought he was likely to score in the box. His playing style I also find very frustrating. He hinders the team. He's just not effective as a striker. At least not when playing with players better than him. 49 goals in 156 games in England. Wouldn't say he's worth the money. His performance with Argetina is hardly memorable. 8 goals in 51. And talking about wanting to quit because he isn't performing. How's that for trying to make things happen?

Wouldn't say Berbatov is worth his pricetag either but he would be if we'd payed Tottenham money for him and not that ridiculous amount IMO he would be.

I just don't like Tevez as a whole. He just doesn't make sense. Says that football is his life and he wouldn't dream of doing anything else but then talks abouth retiring with Argentina at the age of 26? What's that about?
At least I enjoy watching Berbatov play. His touch on the ball is unique and the goals he creates are magnificent. I'll prefer that over Tevez any day.

I said in most of his time at United. That obviously includes the full season before this one. He had a run of games last season where he didnt get a single shot in. Last season he managed 24 shots on target in 29 league matches and another 2 games from off the bench.

Ruud talked about his dream being that after his United contract finished, he'd go back to PSV. With that not happening and never being on the cards, I took what Tevez said with a pinch of salt. Frankly, footballers say dumb things they dont go through with quite often and Tevez is probably one of the dumber footballers I can think of.

That said he had a very good contribution in his first season here, a poor league return last season although he was played out of position (and he really only has one position) and if it wasnt for the fact he went to Manchester City and all the bullshit in the press last season, not just from him and his people but from our side too, then I think more people might be staring at Tevez and Berbatov's records this season and wondering what happened there.
 
I said in most of his time at United. That obviously includes the full season before this one. He had a run of games last season where he didnt get a single shot in. Last season he managed 24 shots on target in 29 league matches and another 2 games from off the bench.

So it's not a shot if it's not on target?
 
The ones on goal tend to be the ones you score from
 
I said in most of his time at United. That obviously includes the full season before this one. He had a run of games last season where he didnt get a single shot in. Last season he managed 24 shots on target in 29 league matches and another 2 games from off the bench.
I took it as this season. Sorry about that. But I'm pretty sure you talked about shooting in general, not hitting the target. Rooney's 40 shots on target out of 123 ain't better than Berbatov's stats. He only scored 3 more goals than him and made fewer assists.

Ruud talked about his dream being that after his United contract finished, he'd go back to PSV. With that not happening and never being on the cards, I took what Tevez said with a pinch of salt. Frankly, footballers say dumb things they dont go through with quite often and Tevez is probably one of the dumber footballers I can think of.

That said he had a very good contribution in his first season here, a poor league return last season although he was played out of position (and he really only has one position) and if it wasnt for the fact he went to Manchester City and all the bullshit in the press last season, not just from him and his people but from our side too, then I think more people might be staring at Tevez and Berbatov's records this season and wondering what happened there.

Well Ruud talked about his dream being this. Not that he would do this.
What Tevez saying is dumb but he said what he was thinking and what he felt. Also saying a lot of shit and doing a lot of other shit sort of defines a person. At least how people view him. Mind you I was not his fan whilst he was here because I simply don't like his playing style. I think he is quite and overrated player. His good games are not equal to his average ones and bad.

His contribution was ok, so was Alan Smith's. And he was played way more out of position that Carlos.

Overall I think that a striker is needed. Every team needs a goalscorer, a goalscorer that starts regularly, not the way Owen's being used. Would be great if Rooney would manage it. He has managed to equal his tally from the two previous season and there's still a lot left. It's really up to him weather a striker is going to be purchased I would think. It would be a huge disappointment if he's not to reach at least 20 goals. A little off topic but I think the point is valid to the general subject.
 
I think it's because we can see the talent there and if he ever manages to make the step up in class he would truly be an incredible player, unfortuanetly he's been so inneffective that signing Crouch would have brought us the same return.

Peter Crouch would have scored more goals for United than Berbatov given the same games, that is 100 % certain.
 
Hmm interesting I really have to ponder that, there is no doubt Crouch would have cost a third less as well. United should have just given the 30 million to Ronaldo for two more years here
 
Saying Berbatov went x number of games without a shot on target is pretty damning too!
 
Hmm interesting I really have to ponder that, there is no doubt Crouch would have cost a third less as well. United should have just given the 30 million to Ronaldo for two more years here

Do you have any idea how gay it comes across when you desperately try to steer almost every thread you post in onto the subject of your beloved Ronaldo?
 
Saying Berbatov went x number of games without a shot on target is pretty damning too!

If he was a pure goalscorer, maybe, however stats are fairly useless without context. His role within the team isn't purely to score goals and 15-20 goals a season would represent a reasonable return especially if he is having a positive impact on the build up play/assists etc. There's not many players who play in his position (the deeper lying striker) who score 20+ a season.
 
His point was that Berbatov went games without a single shot, yet is only using the statistics of shots on target to back it up. If you are going to use stats to back up an argument, at least use them properly.

If you are going to claim that something is incorrect, make sure the stats are there to back you up.

Last season :

Blackburn (away) 0 shots

Everton (home) 0 shots

Boro (away) 0 shots
Man City (home) 0 shots
Wigan (away) 0 shots

(3 league matches in a row)

The majority of the other league matches had 1 single shot from Berbatov that was either blocked or off target.

It was very rare that he got more than 1 shot on target in our league matches.
 
If you are going to claim that something is incorrect, make sure the stats are there to back you up.

Last season :

Blackburn (away) 0 shots

Everton (home) 0 shots

Boro (away) 0 shots
Man City (home) 0 shots
Wigan (away) 0 shots

(3 league matches in a row)

The majority of the other league matches had 1 single shot from Berbatov that was either blocked or off target.

It was very rare that he got more than 1 shot on target in our league matches.

I didn't say it was incorrect, I just said that you were selecting the stats to prove your argument which were shots on target, not total shots.
 
Where can you find this stats about how many shots a player has per match, the other day I was trying to find out if Berba had any shots against Wolves (couldn't remember seeing any) but couldn't find those stats.
 
Awesome thanks. Thats 1 more than I thought anyway! Would hope for more really against Wolves' second string at home though.
 
Do you have any idea how gay it comes across when you desperately try to steer almost every thread you post in onto the subject of your beloved Ronaldo?

Not as gay as it is, considering the fact that you do the same despite hating the player. Considering Berbatov cost 30 million I'd think he should take over some of the workload from the player who shall no longer be mentioned. I will not mention him until you do, which means I could post a thread on Great ----- moments in 12 hours time....
 
Hmm interesting I really have to ponder that, there is no doubt Crouch would have cost a third less as well. United should have just given the 30 million to Ronaldo for two more years here

The day we buy Crouch is the day I stop watching football.
 
Stats:
Of the five games Manchester Unitd have lost this season, Dimitar Berbatov started only one - against Liverpool.
 
Played a lot better last night, clearly got more stuck in, made more runs which was good and if he keeps it up we should see more goals from him. Hopefully this is him finding some good solid form and hopefully it will keep up throughout the new year.
 
Stats:
Of the five games Manchester Unitd have lost this season, Dimitar Berbatov started only one - against Liverpool.

Thats misleading. If SAF isn't going to start him in the matches against the big teams, ie, the ones we are more likely to lose, that stat is going to look much better for him than it actually is.
 
I have a feeling despite what Berbatov does for the team, and what we win as a club, fans will still ask if he was worth the money. Years from now this debate of whether he was worth 30 million will still rage on and there will be no clear cut answer to it.
 
Unless he becomes one of the best in the World in his position, ala Ferdinand. I think many people asked questions of him for many years. His price tag is never mentioned anymore.
 
I have a feeling despite what Berbatov does for the team, and what we win as a club, fans will still ask if he was worth the money. Years from now this debate of whether he was worth 30 million will still rage on and there will be no clear cut answer to it.

If the questions are still being asked... Then he failed!!! No one mentions the fact that Torres cost £25m anymore!!
 
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