Did we waste €200 million this summer?

The three worst signings the last couple of years is Casimero, Varane and Ronaldo. In signing them we took the role as team where you could earn money and chill based on earlier merits.

Below them on the ladder of garbage we have Sancho and Antony. Two players with a social life and personality not near a professional footballer in 2023. When you then look at their price tag and their salary things get worse. Oh my.

Then further down that ladder we have Bruno and Maguire. Our so called captain’s. One is wining about everything and is producing nothing. One is whined about all the time and is made fun of all over the world.

The rest is just dangling at the bottom glad they’re getting the check from Carrington each week wonder how the hell that happened.
 
It is absolutely amazing and mind blowing that we managed to do exactly same mistake with ETH as we did with Solskjaer. And all that after that famous Arnold's meeting with fans when he said that we wasted one billion in ladt decade.
We again allowed manager 100% control in transfers. Despite Solskjaer's era and despite the fact that our two biggest rivals, who even have two best managers in the world, not allowing their managers to create transfer policy.

How and why Arnold allowed that?
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Amrabat and Reguilón I'd add as part of the good batch.
Mount will prove himself before too long to the doubters (I like him already).
Casemiro is brilliant when his legs hold up.
Malacia, Onana, Antony are very underwhelming. Definitely got fleeced on Antony. Probably overpaid on Onana too, although he has to remember how to play keeper at some point.
Overall, Ten Hag's new players have been good and improved the team.

Martinez - 9/10
Eriksen - 8/10
Casemiro - 8/10
Antony - 5/10
Malacia - 3/10
Mount - 7/10
Onana - 5/10
Reguilón - 7/10
Amrabat - 7/10
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Your ratings are....wow. Lisandro 9? When he comes back from injury his playing record will be more games missed than played. And he was the part of the team in all our trashing last year. Amrabat and Reguilon played only few games so far. And Mount 7/10? Based on what?
 
RedRonaldo said:
You have been overrating a few.
So far, I would say:

Martinez - 8/10
Casemiro - 8/10 (first season 9/10, 2nd one 7/10)
Hojlund - 7/10 (potentially 9/10 in future)
Eriksen - 6/10
Antony - 5/10
Malacia - 3/10
Weghorst - 2/10
Sabitzer - 4/10
Mount - 4/10 (potentially 6/10 if we know how to fit him in)
Onana - 5/10 (potentially 7/10 if he keep up his City game form)
Reguilón - 6/10
Amrabat - 5/10 (verdict still out)
Click to expand...

I think that's about right, even though I would rate Antony lower than 5.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
How do you rate this transfer window? I just can't stop thinking that we completely missed out in this transfer window and made our team worse instead going forward.

Don't get me wrong; on paper all players look good and their qualities in general are not in question. Onana is the best ball playing gk in the world, Mount is very good attacking midfielder, Hojlund is Europe's top prospect and Amrabat is excellent backup for Casemiro. But except Amrabat, did we need any of those 3 players THIS season? It seems to me that all those transfers are done season or two too early.
Onana's top class ball playing ability is useless so far because we don't have a midfield who can keep the ball, Mount is not a central midfielder who dictates tempo (type which we needed) and Hojlund is not ready yet to lead a line (so we are again without lethal striker in attack).

I don't want to go in debate how we could have spend that 200 mil. There are 100 combinations how you can spend 200 mil. I am now just talking about these names. Did Erik looked more for next season already or he just overrated these players?
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Even on paper Onana is NOT the best ball-playing goalkeeper in the world. He's very good but he is not in the top bracket as a ball-player, nor as a more conventional goalkeeper. The worst bit about him is that we could have got him for free a year earlier rather than £45million.

I think Mount is a fine addition to the squad and theoretically offers a good and serious alternative to Bruno and should be able to play out-wide too. A huge overpay though.

Hojlund is incredibly raw, and again was a massive overpay. If Martial was at all dependable the idea of having a 20 year-old prospect to take on the mantle from him would be great, but because Martial hasn't been fit for about 3 years and the merry-go-round of strikers before with CR7, Cavani, Lukaku and Zlatan from before, the need for him to be good instantly means he can't be treated like a 20 year old striker.

I'm not convinced by Amrabat. I've never been a huge fan of signing players specifically to be back-ups, especially when the player he's a back-up to will need actually replacing soon.
 
I think hojlund looks good. The team have nothing at all going forward bar Bruno just creating things in his own. We are worse than every team we play. All we can read from hojlund are moments. He is clearly and out and out 9 which we haven't had for a long time. Hoping he is not injury prone - he will be a good signing if not I feel.
 
GoldanoGraham said:
They were all Eric’s picks
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Still not his job - that’s the responsibility of Murtough and his “recruitment“ department.

I mean, if someone in my work isn’t doing their job properly and hasn’t done for years, I’ll probably have to step in and do my best to cover for their inadequacies but if it it doesn’t work out, I don’t want it counting against me in my performance review.
 
Sancho, Antony, Varane, Casemiro, Donny, Mount to name a few. That is around 300m wasted, the players named are either nowhere near good enough or can't stay fit to get their worth or have tossed it in after a season (Casemiro)

Imagine if we had a proper recruitment setup, we'd have signed some top young talent with ready made 25-28 year olds about to hit their prime. Not to mention what are we signing players for? Are we signing players for a possession-based pressing system? A counter-attacking system? Because none of them make sense in the team, it's a complete mixup of playing styles and a mess.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Still not his job - that’s the responsibility of Murtough and his “recruitment“ department.
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100% - sure.

It still raises certain questions about him. If he actually thought Arnautovic and Weghorst were plausible striker options for United, this very clearly indicates that he depends heavily on someone else for...what? Sheer common sense?

(I mean, nobody will convince me that those players were recommended to him by Murtough.)

ETA Sticking to your analogy above, if you stepped in and did your best round the office, but you - say - decided to set a malfunctioning copier on fire in order to fix it, people would probably question you (as in: they would question your general decision making capacity).
 
Last edited:
Absolutely.
I thought that Antony will come the worst transfer in our history, but Mount is pushing hard.
Hoijlund needs at least 2 more seasons to become a regular at a top club, no to mention a started in Manchester United week in and week out.
Amrabat seems totally out of his breath.

How are supposed to get rid of them? And then start all over again, ridiculous.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Still not his job - that’s the responsibility of Murtough and his “recruitment“ department.

I mean, if someone in my work isn’t doing their job properly and hasn’t done for years, I’ll probably have to step in and do my best to cover for their inadequacies but if it it doesn’t work out, I don’t want it counting against me in my performance review.
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Why do you keep saying it's not his job? It is. TEN haag has said its 50/50 between him and Murtough. If you mean it shouldn't be his job then maybe. But Pep has input into transfers. So do most other managers.
Even if he had nothing to do with transfers and it was just Murtough randomly signing his players behind his back then why didn't Ten Haag go yo Murtough and say. 'Hey I just heard you are signing Antoby or whoever. Don't do it because x,y,z'
The only scenario where its not mostly Ten Haags fault is if Antony etc just turned up one day without his knowledge
 
Onana, Hojland, Martinez and Mount I am convinced will be good signings in the right overall team makeup.

The rest, definitely not. Case is not worth it for the one good season.

The thing for me is the squad needs exactly the same overhaul it did when ETH arrived.

We are desperate for two top class midfielders and a proper right winger who crosses the ball, like we have been for like four bloody seasons!
 
UpWithRivers said:
Why do you keep saying it's not his job? It is. TEN haag has said its 50/50 between him and Murtough. If you mean it shouldn't be his job then maybe. But Pep has input into transfers. So do most other managers.
Even if he had nothing to do with transfers and it was just Murtough randomly signing his players behind his back then why didn't Ten Haag go yo Murtough and say. 'Hey I just heard you are signing Antoby or whoever. Don't do it because x,y,z'
The only scenario where its not mostly Ten Haags fault is if Antony etc just turned up one day without his knowledge
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He has an input into players, not fees, wages etc. However it is not his job to scout players, that is Murtoughs department. So 50/50 means he can say no if he doesn't want a player or doesn't want to prioritize a player in a particular position.
They equally have to take the blame for Antony but to be honest I think its a non issue. You are not going to get all signings right, you will make mistakes, the issue is how the club handles this and how the club handles transfers (fees, wages, etc) which makes it difficult to pivot
Our squad still has players we know were not good enough under Jose
 
Cassidy said:
He has an input into players, not fees, wages etc. However it is not his job to scout players, that is Murtoughs department. So 50/50 means he can say no if he doesn't want a player or doesn't want to prioritize a player in a particular position.
They equally have to take the blame for Antony but to be honest I think its a non issue. You are not going to get all signings right, you will make mistakes, the issue is how the club handles this and how the club handles transfers (fees, wages, etc) which makes it difficult to pivot
Our squad still has players we know were not good enough under Jose
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Sure you can get players wrong but not so much when you literally managed that player for over a year. There is a reason why no other manager buys there old players. Klopp didnt, Pep doesnt. I think maybe once or twice between them. Its a monumental fk up when you recommend someone and they are sht. I mean what's Murtough supposed to do. They are both in meetings. Ten Haag is saying get Antony he's fkn awesome. Do what you can to get him. He has to trust that no?
 
United fans seem to be the most gullible fans on the planet. It's been ten years of consistent mediocrity, celebrating a top 4 finish every other year as if it were the start of a new era, only to be bested by the big European teams in the first round of qualifiers and then missing out on the top 4 once again. It's like a never-ending cycle. The highlight of the last decade was defeating PSG - whoopty fecking doo!

Meanwhile City's done a treble, LFC has won the league and the CL, Real has won 5 CL, Barcelona have won a gazillion Ligas and a CL, Bayern have won 10 in a row and 2 CL, we've got a frigging Carling and FA Cup despite spending close to a billion dollars.

The entire football operation is rotten, if you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
Suedesi said:
United fans seem to be the most gullible fans on the planet. It's been ten years of consistent mediocrity, celebrating a top 4 finish every other year as if it were the start of a new era, only to be bested by the big European teams in the first round of qualifiers and then missing out on the top 4 once again. It's like a never-ending cycle. The highlight of the last decade was defeating PSG - whoopty fecking doo!

Meanwhile City's done a treble, LFC has won the league and the CL, Real has won 5 CL, Barcelona have won a gazillion Ligas and a CL, Bayern have won 10 in a row and 2 CL, we've got a frigging Carling and FA Cup despite spending close to a billion dollars.

The entire football operation is rotten, if you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.
Click to expand...
Amen brother.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Why do you keep saying it's not his job? It is. TEN haag has said its 50/50 between him and Murtough. If you mean it shouldn't be his job then maybe. But Pep has input into transfers. So do most other managers.
Even if he had nothing to do with transfers and it was just Murtough randomly signing his players behind his back then why didn't Ten Haag go yo Murtough and say. 'Hey I just heard you are signing Antoby or whoever. Don't do it because x,y,z'
The only scenario where its not mostly Ten Haags fault is if Antony etc just turned up one day without his knowledge
Click to expand...
But it shouldn't be even 50:50. In clubs with sorted football business it goes like this;
Manager says that he needs/wants players for this and this position and gives traits what that players needs to have. And that is it. His job is finished.
Then DoF and scouts find and sign those kind of players.
You know what Pep said once? That he doesn't question about certain abilities (technically wise) when new player comes. Because he is sure that scouts and DoF did their job.

Our policy is utter cluster feck. Manager orders players from DoF like you order chicken in KFC.
"I want this, this and this player. Go on John, make it done". " Yes, boss."
 
UpWithRivers said:
Sure you can get players wrong but not so much when you literally managed that player for over a year. There is a reason why no other manager buys there old players. Klopp didnt, Pep doesnt. I think maybe once or twice between them. Its a monumental fk up when you recommend someone and they are sht. I mean what's Murtough supposed to do. They are both in meetings. Ten Haag is saying get Antony he's fkn awesome. Do what you can to get him. He has to trust that no?
Click to expand...
Pep did buy Xabi Alonso when he was at Bayern for the deep lying play maker role.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
But it shouldn't be even 50:50. In clubs with sorted football business it goes like this;
Manager says that he needs/wants players for this and this position and gives traits what that players needs to have. And that is it. His job is finished.
Then DoF and scouts find and sign those kind of players.
You know what Pep said once? That he doesn't question about certain abilities (technically wise) when new player comes. Because he is sure that scouts and DoF did their job.

Our policy is utter cluster feck. Manager orders players from DoF like you order chicken in KFC.
"I want this, this and this player. Go on John, make it done". " Yes, boss."
Click to expand...
It's not even that. It was obvious to anyone that Man City hired Begiristain in 2012 to start the ground work for Pep to swan in and win stuff.

Not that they had it sorted by any means, they just knew they had to do that to even have a chance to get him on board, which they did FOUR YEARS LATER.

Nobody at this club seems to have picked up on that. They win because oil money, state funding, Pep... No, they also dilligently did all the right things.

The only time they looked like straying was the PRonaldo rumours. I can see the owners champing at the bit wanting to make a statement, tap into his massive following... Pep gave an interview indicating he was thinking at leaving at the end of the season. It was all set for their downfall and we came to the rescue.
 
for a club that desperately needed a complete reboot/rebuild and is broke, to spend what we did on casemiro/varane was just so fecking incredibly shortsighted. Imagine what a proper scouting department/transfer team couldve done with that money.
 
One of the I've found most depressing about the whole ETH thing so far, is the continuation of our disastrous recruitment and transfer strategy*.

None of that changes until the people change, we bring in serious professionals, we give them money, we give them time and we give them support. It's debatable how far an INEOS takeover can enable all this but we'll start finding out fairly soon.

Of course we absolutely need a set-up that breaks the cycle of bringing in big name, ageing, short shelf-life players, with big reputations, and giving them big contracts. Casemiro, Varane and so many others are just palliatives to a huge problem that needs fixing. As hard as that may be. We have to learn - the hard way, with potential FFP implications - that this is the wrong way. I don't see any well-run clubs doing what we've been doing on this scale.

And at the most fundamental level, we need to start with a recognition we are not competing for titles anytime soon. It isn't about always bringing in proven players who can slot in, have an immediate impact and give us what we sometimes assume is what's 'missing'. It's the 'if we can add xxx' we're challenging again thing. It hasn't worked and won't work.

Sure, that doesn't equate to trying to follow a Tony Bloom-style Brighton model but there is something to be learned, adopted and adapted from an approach that prioritises a focus on developing a core of emerging, high-potential, players. With the mindset, attitude and appetite.

*Not that we have any sort of strategy of course - it's been a bad joke for far too long.
 
Highfather_24 said:
There were people in here praising the last two transfer windows as 8/10s etc, and would go to hell and back to defend don murtough's decisions. People who said Maddison>Mount, were told they didnt understand ball :lol:

Truth of the matter is simple. We have a DOF who is a clown, we target names and not profiles, and when we manage to sign players we delay and overpay. We cant sell. We give fat contracts to undeserving players whose form goes to shit the moment they sign their extensions. We give the manager too much power because we have a spineless DOF.

Sack Murtough and co. Get a proper DOF and recruitment team in, and the change will be easily seen.
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Maddison and Mount are similar level players. And totally not the same type of players.
 
ToToMarshall said:
Even on paper Onana is NOT the best ball-playing goalkeeper in the world. He's very good but he is not in the top bracket as a ball-player, nor as a more conventional goalkeeper. The worst bit about him is that we could have got him for free a year earlier rather than £45million.

I think Mount is a fine addition to the squad and theoretically offers a good and serious alternative to Bruno and should be able to play out-wide too. A huge overpay though.

Hojlund is incredibly raw, and again was a massive overpay. If Martial was at all dependable the idea of having a 20 year-old prospect to take on the mantle from him would be great, but because Martial hasn't been fit for about 3 years and the merry-go-round of strikers before with CR7, Cavani, Lukaku and Zlatan from before, the need for him to be good instantly means he can't be treated like a 20 year old striker.

I'm not convinced by Amrabat. I've never been a huge fan of signing players specifically to be back-ups, especially when the player he's a back-up to will need actually replacing soon.
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We couldn't have got Onana for free as Inter had signed him up while Man Utd were in transition with Woodward leaving, Ole leaving and Rangnick in.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
But it shouldn't be even 50:50. In clubs with sorted football business it goes like this;
Manager says that he needs/wants players for this and this position and gives traits what that players needs to have. And that is it. His job is finished.
Then DoF and scouts find and sign those kind of players.
You know what Pep said once? That he doesn't question about certain abilities (technically wise) when new player comes. Because he is sure that scouts and DoF did their job.

Our policy is utter cluster feck. Manager orders players from DoF like you order chicken in KFC.
"I want this, this and this player. Go on John, make it done". " Yes, boss."
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That is not how it is. If you believe Arteta has just that input at Arsenal I have a bridge to sell you. It's in places like Italy and Spain where what you typed might be correct.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
It is absolutely amazing and mind blowing that we managed to do exactly same mistake with ETH as we did with Solskjaer. And all that after that famous Arnold's meeting with fans when he said that we wasted one billion in ladt decade.
We again allowed manager 100% control in transfers. Despite Solskjaer's era and despite the fact that our two biggest rivals, who even have two best managers in the world, not allowing their managers to create transfer policy.

How and why Arnold allowed that?
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Because he's a Glazer crony and the Glazers don't want to run the club, they just want to exploit it. Hence why they're looking for a new Ferguson to make the club a milkable cash cow again.
 
roseguy64 said:
Maddison and Mount are similar level players. And totally not the same type of players.
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They are not the same type of players, but we need a Maddison much more than a Mount, as Maddison is much more similar to Eriksen. Also he has been in amazing form this season, and hit the ground running unlike Mount.
 
Martinez is the only inbound transfer in the past 2 years that I would call an unqualified success.

Prior to that, I really don't know the last player I'd say that about. Bruno has had moments of excellence, but unqualified success might be a stretch. Honestly I think the last transfer that I've not got some form of reservations about was RvP, maybe Luke Shaw too ?

We've bought poorly for a decade, players have either flopped or been wildly over priced and under performing. It's an awful state of affairs.
 
If you create a plan to build a €300 million mansion, build 80% of it for €200 million, but get de-funded for the remaining portion of it and now you have unfinished third floor, no roof and it's autumn, so rain starts destroying the portion you even managed to build - how do you describe the situation?

It is clear that EtH's entire plan was not to get stuck with Maguire, McT, Donny and others that were supposed to be sold, and it is very possible that he didn't get to finish buying the entire set of players he needed, because money couldn't be raised from players that were supposed to be sold. It is very plausible that he wouldn't have spent 50mil on Onana, had he known that he wasn't getting Kim Minjae.

So part of it can be that he didn't get to properly complete his plan.

Part of it also seems to be that he greatly miscalculated his ability to play Mason Mount (as #8) and Bruno (as #10) together, against very physical teams in EPL. He tried it and got overrun, quickly realizing such soft midfield won't work in EPL. It happens, but it is a big problem given how he paid a lot for Mount and gave him #7 shirt.
 
Martinez : Good signing
Onana : Good signing
Hojlund : Good signing

Malacia : Decent cheap backup, its fine
Eriksen : Decent mid on a free, squad player
Mount : Decent squad player, overpriced.
Amrabat : Decent squad player

Casemiro : Good player, but declining. Bad signing considering the money spent.
Antony : Big question marks.
 
Highfather_24 said:
They are not the same type of players, but we need a Maddison much more than a Mount, as Maddison is much more similar to Eriksen. Also he has been in amazing form this season, and hit the ground running unlike Mount.
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We couldn't really buy Maddison with his injury record, he would 100% be sidelined if he was playing for us and it's only a matter of time before he has his spells on the side as per usual.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/james-maddison/verletzungen/spieler/294057

Mount has come to us and had his longest injury layoff in his career to date, I think we may have broken Maddison.
 
NewGlory said:
If you create a plan to build a €300 million mansion, build 80% of it for €200 million, but get de-funded for the remaining portion of it and now you have unfinished third floor, no roof and it's autumn, so rain starts destroying the portion you even managed to build - how do you describe the situation?

It is clear that EtH's entire plan was not to get stuck with Maguire, McT, Donny and others that were supposed to be sold, and it is very possible that he didn't get to finish buying the entire set of players he needed, because money couldn't be raised from players that were supposed to be sold. It is very plausible that he wouldn't have spent 50mil on Onana, had he known that he wasn't getting Kim Minjae.

So part of it can be that he didn't get to properly complete his plan.

Part of it also seems to be that he greatly miscalculated his ability to play Mason Mount (as #8) and Bruno (as #10) together, against very physical teams in EPL. He tried it and got overrun, quickly realizing such soft midfield won't work in EPL. It happens, but it is a big problem given how he paid a lot for Mount and gave him #7 shirt.
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The first one would be true if his signings weren't stinking up the place right now. That he miscalculated on Bruno and Mount being able to play with Casemiro is obvious and the fact that he couldn't see it without trying it out in a real match situation says a lot about his suitability for the role. This is something anyone with an interest in football would have seen from a mile out let alone a highly paid professional manager - a midfield trio of Bruno, Mount and Casemiro doesn't keep the ball well enough under pressure and doesn't have enough physicality to wrestle for the ball.

He has majorly fecked up in the market and is now resorting to hoofball, which he doesn't know, to save face. Players like Antony, Onana and Martinez were brought in for their ability to circulate the ball under pressure - a clear indication that we did intent to play a possession based style which we did with moderate success for half a season. How we veered off tangent wildly to whatever this is is unacceptable and a sackable offense.
 
Suedesi said:
United fans seem to be the most gullible fans on the planet. It's been ten years of consistent mediocrity, celebrating a top 4 finish every other year as if it were the start of a new era, only to be bested by the big European teams in the first round of qualifiers and then missing out on the top 4 once again. It's like a never-ending cycle. The highlight of the last decade was defeating PSG - whoopty fecking doo!

Meanwhile City's done a treble, LFC has won the league and the CL, Real has won 5 CL, Barcelona have won a gazillion Ligas and a CL, Bayern have won 10 in a row and 2 CL, we've got a frigging Carling and FA Cup despite spending close to a billion dollars.

The entire football operation is rotten, if you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.
Click to expand...

That's depressing but it's the truth.
I guess we never had any football masterminds other that Fergie, he was EVERYTHING. With him gone we were gone.
 
RedRonaldo said:
You have been overrating a few.
So far, I would say:

Martinez - 8/10
Casemiro - 8/10 (first season 9/10, 2nd one 7/10)
Hojlund - 7/10 (potentially 9/10 in future)
Eriksen - 6/10
Antony - 5/10
Malacia - 3/10
Weghorst - 2/10
Sabitzer - 4/10
Mount - 4/10 (potentially 6/10 if we know how to fit him in)
Onana - 5/10 (potentially 7/10 if he keep up his City game form)
Reguilón - 6/10
Amrabat - 5/10 (verdict still out)
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You would give casemiro 7 out of 10 this season? I would say more like 3 or 4

And Antony is one of the worst signings I'm the history of the league so 5 seems incredibly generous
 
RedRonaldo said:
You have been overrating a few.
So far, I would say:

Martinez - 8/10
Casemiro - 8/10 (first season 9/10, 2nd one 7/10)
Hojlund - 7/10 (potentially 9/10 in future)
Eriksen - 6/10
Antony - 5/10
Malacia - 3/10
Weghorst - 2/10
Sabitzer - 4/10
Mount - 4/10 (potentially 6/10 if we know how to fit him in)
Onana - 5/10 (potentially 7/10 if he keep up his City game form)
Reguilón - 6/10
Amrabat - 5/10 (verdict still out)
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I think even you are overrating a bunch of them.

Ratings so far:
Martinez - 8/10
Casemiro - 6/10 (first season 8/10, 2nd one 4/10, likely to decline more)
Hojlund - 6/10 (exciting prospect - but we need goals this season as well)
Eriksen - 5/10
Antony - 1/10
Malacia - 3/10
Weghorst - 1/10
Sabitzer - 3/10
Mount - 3/10 (just why???)
Onana - 5/10 (hopefully he'll become consistently good)
Reguilón - 3/10
Amrabat - 3/10 (not entirely his own fault)
 
I know, i know this is bs because they are in reality good players but at this moment we spent 200 mil on gk who can't save a shot, striker who can't score a goal and midfielders who can't create and defend.
Bargain.
 
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