Nobody said that. We are missing a lot of things of course. But one thing among that is a proven goal scorer. And with all due respect to defenders, full backs and wingers, striker is the most important position in every team.
Did we waste €200 million this summer?
- Thread starter Andycoleno9
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Just to be clear you have NO respect for midfielders?
. I was randomly throwing positions. In matter of fact; imo, second most important position is central creative midfielder. Third is central defender.So Kane, Bellingham and Gvardiol with 8 average players will kick ass.
I would disagree. I don't think Arsenal, Spurs, Brighton and Newcastle have any proven goal scorer in the team that can score 20 league goals a season. If a team can not provide service to the striker then even a "proven" goal scorer will be starved of service.
The only one repeating that nonsense is you. I said we would be in a better state, never meaning that it’s all we need.
He probably is still in cooko land and waits on Onana to improve our build up, pressing and goslscoring. Failing to see that Onana is absolute crap at about everything.
This is such a poor, poor arguement. Put Kane in any of the 5 clubs who are sitting below us now, and they probably are ahead of us now. Put Kane in any of the 7 clubs ahead of us (apart from Man City) and they're much further ahead of us.
The root of our problems can't be NOT having one of the 2 best strikers in the world.
But to be clear..we would have been far better?
Say to the point where a January window of reinforcements could help us maintain a push for top 4, and the next summer window could help us build a stable young core to build around, and then subsequently build on that team for 3 season until eventually Kane would have to be replaced and a new striker could come into an established cohesive unit?
In the proud tradition of Fergie then. One of the most memorable things I read on here... Strikers score goals, Wingers provide for the Strikers, Defenders stop strikers. Midfielders, whats their purpose.
I personally don't think this is the case but of course, a great goal scorer can help to improve the environment for everybody. In our position right now, yes we probably would have scored a few more goals, but all the other factors that are kicking in right now, would still be an issue. Moments FC would last a little longer. And that of the cost of a big bunch of our budget, preventing us from bringing in other much needed reinforcements.
Fair enough, I was a little more polemic than necessary. But at the core, I'd go as far as saying I might have stopped actively following football if United would have went for Kane. It would be proof that we have learned nothing over the years. It would be a premium price to get a questionable short term effect. Thats not a great way to run a club. Especially not us who are in the shits because of a whole series of bad decisions like that.
Do you question the fact, that DDG was shit with the ball at his feet? I don't think so. So we needed a new keeper. I personally wouldn't have went for Onana but his underlying numbers are alright and his footwork is unmatched. He is a player of ours now, better get over it.
Nobody knows how many seasons are in Kane at this point in time. From what we know, he already hindered Spurs' pressing game, do you think, this will get better when he gets older? At this point in time, we should ask ourselves, if we would really benefit from Top4 or even Top8 because it'd save us Europe for a year to focus on ourselves. Most of you seem to be under the impression that the only steps possible to improve a team are via transfers but that is wrong. It is also work on the training pitch. And as anybody on here knows, we seriously need that. No matter if for some players not even that would work out. We are caught in an endless circle of short term success but longterm progress. Something will have to give at some point. Our competitors are far away, Kane, not even Osimhen would change an iota of that as long as we aren't capable of improving the other areas.
I think everybody would like to see Kane playing with us. Even at that age. But not at the price of being severly restricted later down the line. The next big rebuild is on the horizon guys, Varane, Bruno, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen. Even the cheap punts don't look like actual candidates looking at Amrabat or Malacia... Don't even want to begin with the chapter of our right side... Fullback and Winger...
As long as budget is restricted (and that will be the case with FFP in place) we are not at a point where we have to luxury to shop from the upper shelf. And Kane at 30 at 100 million is the definition of luxury item.
You would have stopped following United if we signed the best striker in the world? Who is also league proven and would have transformed our attack? But you didn't stop following United when we went and spanked 70m on Casemiro who based on his profile of play was much riskier and unreasonable buy? I don't get it really. And yes ideally I would have wanted a 25 year old Kane, but it was not to be, but getting 20 year old Hojlund is equally as unreasonable deal considering who we have in attack.
Christ on a bike, DDG was shit with the ball at his feet? Have you watched Onana try and hit a long ball precisely? What the feck has his suicidal short passing and absolute garbage goalkeeping brought to this team that we lacked with DDG? You talk about how bad was DDG with the ball at his feet, but it's like you overslept Onana hoofing constantly long balls, but his footwork is "unmatched"
It's like some of you think this is street football and him dwelling on the ball in our own box thinking he is René Higuita has brought us any improvement.
How about Son? 8 goals in 10 games this season, and top-scorer in the League 2 seasons ago?
I would have thought about stopping. Especially because of the transfers of Casemiro and Varane. I considered them as problematic as well. Same as Sancho and Antony btw. But at some point, it would be enough for me. And I would agree, we paid too much for Hojlund but with such a young player, you always overpay for their potential. It is what it is and to me, it isn't really a worse gamble than paying over the odds for a superstar where you can't be sure, how many seasons are left in him. Both are gambles. Thats my point. But I personally would always favor going for younger players. In our current situation of course.
It is unmatched, we currently just aren't really making use of it well. Plus it is his first month in team that is seriously struggling so I would put his recent performances into context, I even thought he was particularly good in the last 2 or 3 games. With DDG it was a different situation, he was never a rounded goal keeper like Neuer. He was fantastic with his reactions, but he was never anything more than decent to good in terms of organising, sweeping, passes, claiming crosses. For a long time, he balanced those things with his saves but those went down as well. It was time to get rid of him because it just wasn't a good deal anymore. He offered limited services to a modern team but at a premium price. I didn't like how everything went at the end, I am still a fan of the player, but the decision to replace him was correct. All stats backed that DDG wasn't a top keeper anymore, he was a decent keeper with some major flaws who once was a top keeper. And I think, your take on Onana is overly harsh.Christ on a bike, DDG was shit with the ball at his feet? Have you watched Onana try and hit a long ball precisely? What the feck has his suicidal short passing and absolute garbage goalkeeping brought to this team that we lacked with DDG? You talk about how bad was DDG with the ball at his feet, but it's like you overslept Onana hoofing constantly long balls, but his footwork is "unmatched"
Onana showed at Ajax and Inter, that he is capable of playing the ball like a centreback, which is anvaluable trait these days because it helps with numbers against the press. Granted, we haven't really seen this trait really making use of but it is still early days and for every fair person, it should be obvious that the whole team is a complete mess right now. Obviously Onana will be the same player as he was at Inter right from the get go.
Which keeper would you have tried to bring in?
Sancho transfer was problematic but Hojlund is just overpaying but okey?
Onana has directly cost us with crucial mistakes in half of the games he has played. Particularly goodin the last 3 games? How? Because he made some saves? Because the bar has been put so low for him in the last month that saving a shot or 3 is now a good game? He was crap against City also. Not sure how he has been good in the last 2 games. And that part about DDG nevr being well rounded keeper, mate if that is the case for De Gea, than what can you say about Onana? How is his organazing, sweeping, long passing, claiming crosses? How is it? Is it better?
What Onana showed at Ajax and Inter i couldn't give a rat's ass. I have seen how he performs here, he can't make a clean save to save his life, stuck on the line, does not claim crosses, hoofs the ball long with feck all precision (something DDG critics could not get over). So What is the point of him being able to play the ball like a CB? How is that relevant when you are so fundamentally bad at traditional GK attributes?
Good point. I considered it a risk back then as well. But afaik, the sums with Sancho were even higher and higher salary was agreed on. Apart from that, both were gambles to a degree, Sancho apparently an even smaller one. Maybe my perception is a little worse because we foolishly chased him two summers instead of just one.
He hasn't cost us points in so many games. 2? 3? He also won us two points with a penalty save already. And yes, I thought he was good in the last games, not awesome but good. I agree, we are a little to fast in praise but you in particular are just as fast with slagging him off. And yes, he is a more rounded keeper than DDG (current day DDG) and he is not fundamentally bad at traditional GK attributes. You clearly picked him as a target and you don't seem to be objective on that. You don't like him, we get it. You think, he isn't really good and we paid too much, we get it. But all those conclusions after such a little number of games in a new league in a failing team in the middle of two dysfunctional systems, seems wild to me. Remember DDGs first games btw? A new keeper was necessary, delaying that wouldn't have helped anybody. We brought in a good keeper with a major strength (mentioned even by Pep before CL final), now it is on us to make use of that. We saw some of his potential in pre season. After that, I agree, we haven't seen of that short passing ability but that applies to anybody if we are being honest.
But we can close that topic, I accept that you seem to have some beef with him. I think, you are overly harsh but each to their own.
A beef with Onana
I am not saying you are one, but I do have a beef with the hypocrites who were slagging DDG for every cross not collected or hoofing it long, but now suddenly when this modern expensive GK does the same not a pip is made. And that is without going into their favorite stats sites and how much percentiles he saves compared to last season DDG. Onana can't make a clean cut save, and that is evident, his saving technique is appalling. and comparing him to 20 year old DDG when he first came in the PL is borderline laughable, but even than whoever has a better memory than a pillow will tell you that DDG even back than was an exceptional GK, absolute monster saves even at that age. Whoever is honest with himself and remembers will tell you the laughable Hart vs DDG critique when the the media darling Hart was praised to heavens while DDG was the punch line. Luckily for us we had a manager who knew what he was doing. ETH spent 50m on Onana, it's in line with 100m for Antony, and hopefully he takes both of them with him when he gets the sack.
Onana - He's a top modern goalkeeper. Whether we should have spent so many millions on a GK when we had DDG is a matter of debate but I still think that he's a decent GK. My rating 7/10
Baymdir - I don't think that we needed another GK. Heaton is clearly better then him and we could have relied on kids. At least it didn't cost us a fortune My rating 3/10
Mount - Mason is not a bad player but we really didn't need another no 10 especially on that salary. My rating 5/10
Amrabat - he's a decent DM and we needed him especially since Casemiro is our only DM and he's already showing signs of wear and tear - My rating 6/10
Regulon - He's on loan and was brought in because all our LBs were injured - My rating 7/10
Hojlund - the guy has talent but 70m on a striker whose clearly not ready yet to lead our line was kind of stupid. My rating 6/10
Baymdir - I don't think that we needed another GK. Heaton is clearly better then him and we could have relied on kids. At least it didn't cost us a fortune My rating 3/10
Mount - Mason is not a bad player but we really didn't need another no 10 especially on that salary. My rating 5/10
Amrabat - he's a decent DM and we needed him especially since Casemiro is our only DM and he's already showing signs of wear and tear - My rating 6/10
Regulon - He's on loan and was brought in because all our LBs were injured - My rating 7/10
Hojlund - the guy has talent but 70m on a striker whose clearly not ready yet to lead our line was kind of stupid. My rating 6/10
Which keeper would you have tried to bring in? As far as I know, the going rate for Raya was 40 million. Maignan was estimated around 80, Diogo Costa 70 to 80. Or would you have kept DDG as 1st choice keeper?A beef with Onana
I am not saying you are one, but I do have a beef with the hypocrites who were slagging DDG for every cross not collected or hoofing it long, but now suddenly when this modern expensive GK does the same not a pip is made. And that is without going into their favorite stats sites and how much percentiles he saves compared to last season DDG. Onana can't make a clean cut save, and that is evident, his saving technique is appalling. and comparing him to 20 year old DDG when he first came in the PL is borderline laughable, but even than whoever has a better memory than a pillow will tell you that DDG even back than was an exceptional GK, absolute monster saves even at that age. Whoever is honest with himself and remembers will tell you the laughable Hart vs DDG critique when the the media darling Hart was praised to heavens while DDG was the punch line. Luckily for us we had a manager who knew what he was doing. ETH spent 50m on Onana, it's in line with 100m for Antony, and hopefully he takes both of them with him when he gets the sack.
Absolutely. When the best striker on the planet makes himself available you go out of your way and get him through whatever means necessary. And like you said, De Gea-Fred-Kane is a lot superior than Onana-Mount-Hojlund.
World-class quality over middling-to-good quantity every time. It's actually very simple.
Would Levy have sold Kane to you, especially when he could sell him to Bayern?
Personally I was always DDG for another season while we reinforce this season in other areas. Then after realizing we will buy a GK anyway, I was more for Onana than Raya, but feck me he had surprised me with his shitness.
If it were that simple, Spurs should have collapsed after Kane's departure and they should be struggling to score goals. And yet...
The whole Kane fixation of this forum is stupid. He was never going to come here over Bayern, Spurs were never going to sell to a rival - yes, everyone who sneered at the idea that Spurs are competing on the same level as we are look less than prescient right now -, and signing yet another 30 year old for massive money on massive wages is a clear step in a very wrong direction. You do that sort of thing when you have a settled, balanced, top team with the right mix of age and quality. Spending 100m+ on a short-term bandaid, however, is the epitome of short sighted recruitment, the kind that landed us in this mess in the first place.
Yes buying Kane may be a result of short sightedness since he's like old and slow and doesn't win any trophies.
At least with Casemiro, you know that he can win trophies and his cost is far lower.
Hojlund is for long term.
Onana is pretty decent
So Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro's isn't wasted.
At least with Casemiro, you know that he can win trophies and his cost is far lower.
Hojlund is for long term.
Onana is pretty decent
So Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro's isn't wasted.
I think our problems go deeper than just having overspend on some players. The whole club and the team seem to be unbalanced and without leaders and clear leadership both on and off the pitch.
When we are struggling to beat teams like Galatasaray, Copenhagen and Sheffield United just to name a few, it is not down to injuries in defence or missing Sancho or fielding a 20 year old striker. The team that we put out there for those games should have won comfortably but they couldn’t even control the game and cruise it home when we were up against Galatasaray and Copenhagen at home at Old Trafford.
I hope that with the change in ownership, even if it is not all what we hoped for, that someone will come in with a knowledge of how to structure a club from top to bottom and give him the necessary power and resources to change the club.
United is one of the biggest clubs in the world and should be able to attract not only the best Managers but also the best CEO, DOF etc what ever is needed to run a successful football club with a clear long term strategy on and off the pitch.
I hope this is what will happen because the way things are now not even Bellingham, Mbappe and Kane could make this a winning team.
When we are struggling to beat teams like Galatasaray, Copenhagen and Sheffield United just to name a few, it is not down to injuries in defence or missing Sancho or fielding a 20 year old striker. The team that we put out there for those games should have won comfortably but they couldn’t even control the game and cruise it home when we were up against Galatasaray and Copenhagen at home at Old Trafford.
I hope that with the change in ownership, even if it is not all what we hoped for, that someone will come in with a knowledge of how to structure a club from top to bottom and give him the necessary power and resources to change the club.
United is one of the biggest clubs in the world and should be able to attract not only the best Managers but also the best CEO, DOF etc what ever is needed to run a successful football club with a clear long term strategy on and off the pitch.
I hope this is what will happen because the way things are now not even Bellingham, Mbappe and Kane could make this a winning team.
Even Kane would have struggled to score goals in this team. He’s be dropping deeper and deeper
What kind of nonsense is that?
Kane old and slow?
That guy is 30 and still has at least 4 great years in him, probably even more. Just look at Lewandowski (35 years old) or even Ronaldo (turns 39 soon, played great until 36).
As for the trophies - he played at Tottenham. The national team with Kane as captain is better than it has been in 20+ years.
In the end it's still a team game.
I will never understand the fixation on buying hyped up 20-year olds, when you can get a proven worldclass player who just turned 30.
Fans just don't seem to realize that the odds of said young guy not coming close to meeting the expectations are much higher than him turning into an actual worldclass player.
We wasted money on Mount, Hojlund and Antony
It was an almost unbelievably idiotic transfer window, as many pointed out and were shouted down.
I was stunned at not only how blatantly and obviously bad all of the outfield signings were, but also by how willingly people deluded themselves that they were sound deals.
I was stunned at not only how blatantly and obviously bad all of the outfield signings were, but also by how willingly people deluded themselves that they were sound deals.
I am sick of this argument tbh. 30 years is a player on his prime but he's not young either. If you take in account our budget, the EPL physicality and pace, the fact that players have to sweat blood to succeed in this lazy and ineffective side and that our training/fitness regimen is quite frankly shit then the money/salary asked by Spurs/Kane was beyond ridiculous. Sure you can mention plenty outliers like Lewandowski, Ronaldo and Baggio. However for every single one of them there's also a Rooney, a Vieri and a Van Persei.
We should go back to the basics. We only sign 27+ year old players if they provide value and not on silly money
I’m watching Kudus destroy Brentford at the moment, and thinking how he was nearly half the price of Mount. Comfortably a better player, and a better player than Bruno too for my money.
He and his agent insisted on release clause in his contract, just like Haaland.
Imagine if Ten Hag had signed another Ajax player though and he had not been a hit?
Wasn't that why the Brighton deal fell through?
I wouldn't have thought a release clause would have been asked for had Kudus singed for a big club.
Is there a clause in his West Ham deal?
obviously hindsight is 20/20 and all that, and wouldve been completely crazy to go with this strategy but we really have been all that worse had we just spent the mount/onana money on kane, and have kane/hojlund be our only 2 signings? Kovar in goal wouldve been absolute crazy big call but cant see it really being all that worse. Been super thin at midfield but not like mount/amrabat have played/been good in midfield. Maybe hypothetically mainoo doesnt get injured via butterfly effect or something haha.
It is rumored Haaland has one in his City contract as well.
Probably enormous and to ensure that if and when Real Madrid come in, he has a get out.
I get it if Kudos wants to add one if coming to Brighton or West Ham because he see's them as steping stones to a top club. Brighton may not want that because we know they have a track record of created a stage for players to shine, so wouldnt want to let him go, unless that clause was over 100mil.
They already let MacAlister go on the cheap because of a sell on clause.
Regardless, i do think Kudos is a better player than Mount. Especially how versatile he is, but you have to think Ten Hag though that one more Ajax player would be too much.
im very happy with it
This. Don’t fool yourselves, with the current season Kane would probably have 2 goals, 1 assist. He would struggle to even get near the all time record so it was wise from him to chose Bayern, he really dodged a bullet here.
Yeah, this is something which we will never know. Imo, he would be on 15 goals/assists already (in all comp). But i agree that he is the one who dodged a bullet.