Gaming Destiny | Rise of Iron launch

PlayerOne said:
Nope, he's correct. It's rank four for the gauntlets.
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This bloody game :mad: haha.

Still my previous rank carries on for IB doesn't it? I should make it to four if so, I'm not that bad in the Crucible to be fair. Time to crack out Plan C again!
 
Shotguns are so OP in PVP. A level 27 should not be able to one shot a level 30, whatever the range!
 
tom33 said:
Shotguns are so OP in PVP. A level 27 should not be able to one shot a level 30, whatever the range!
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Have you tried resisting a shotgun to the face? Not sure level comes into it... unless you were capped at range?
 
Doing the weekly now if anyone wants to hop in. Just me and one other guy. PSN is markozindovic
 
afrocentricity said:
Have you tried resisting a shotgun to the face? Not sure level comes into it... unless you were capped at range?
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On iron banner, level should come into it, particularly with that big a difference. Otherwise it means that anyone can easily kill trade if they just panic and press R2 when someone gets close. It also makes fusion rifles pretty pointless, as you actually have to anticipate the charge time and take into account movement in order to get a one-hit. It's also absurd when so many players use blink so they can teleport across the distance between you without any chance of being shot.
 
tom33 said:
On iron banner, level should come into it, particularly with that big a difference. Otherwise it means that anyone can easily kill trade if they just panic and press R2 when someone gets close. It also makes fusion rifles pretty pointless, as you actually have to anticipate the charge time and take into account movement in order to get a one-hit. It's also absurd when so many players use blink so they can teleport across the distance between you without any chance of being shot.
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I was being cheeky, but they did say that a 3 lvl difference would be 'competitive'... and there were reports of lowbies smashing it in the last IB... so I wouldn't expect to much. Skill will be the overall defining factor, and the go to PvP weapons will still rule...
 
Raid, Nightfall and weekly all done in record time :drool:

Though only managed to get fatebringer out of it really. Other than that just stuff I already had.
 
afrocentricity said:
I was being cheeky, but they did say that a 3 lvl difference would be 'competitive'... and there were reports of lowbies smashing it in the last IB... so I wouldn't expect to much. Skill will be the overall defining factor, and the go to PvP weapons will still rule...
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I totally understand that it has to be competitive, otherwise it'd just be a game for 29/30s and nobody else would bother, but shotguns could be 2- or maybe even 3-shot kills and it'd still be the quickest kill at close range (from first trigger pull to kill, taking into account how tough it'd be to get consecutive headshots with an AR at close range). My problem is that skill should be the defining factor, but with shotguns so OP, it often isn't. When I first played crucible, I used a shotgun, and you generally had to get two good shots off (or a shot + melee) to get a kill and that was by far the easiest way to get kills. Now shotguns seem to require one shot!
 
PlayerOne said:
Ah that sucks man, but IB should be around for a while. You can get the boots and gloves from them to get level 30 and they have some pretty shaders. You can't raid today?
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Not till this evening :(

Switched my day off around as I felt dreadful yesterday.
 
tom33 said:
When I first played crucible, I used a shotgun, and you generally had to get two good shots off (or a shot + melee) to get a kill and that was by far the easiest way to get kills. Now shotguns seem to require one shot!
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I know what you mean... it seems to be the distance. Point blank I've one shotted people a good few times (try it) but usually it's not point bank and as you say 2 shots or a shot-melee combo is needed to get the kill...
 
By the way guys, if this Iron Banner is only a week long, getting to rank 5 is going to require a lot of work! Me and @PlayerOne played for probably 2 hours straight, winning probably a bit over 50% of our games and I think my rank only went up half a level. Glad you don't need rank 5 for the armour!
 
afrocentricity said:
I know what you mean... it seems to be the distance. Point blank I've one shotted people a good few times (try it) but usually it's not point bank and as you say 2 shots or a shot-melee combo is needed to get the kill...
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Theres a few shotguns that are one shot kills. Comedian will one shot most, just titans that take 2 really. Dead Orbit and New Monarchy shotguns both one shot.
Theres a blue shotgun that one shots in regular crucible too, think its called sidewinder?
Most / All of them have a pretty slow rate of fire and / or some other weaknesses.

You have to remember that things like handcannons will kill in 2+ shots and will fire off fast.
Shotguns basically need to be one shot or one shot and melee attack kills to compete against AR or well any of the guns really.
It taking 2/3 shots to kill anything would be absurd tbh. Someone spamming their melee attack would do as much / more damage than someone using a shotgun making it redundant.

Personally I think shotguns are balanced, think they should be buffed for pve actually.
Sniper rifles might be hard to make use of but they do their job very well to be fair.
Same with fusion rifles, they work. Light / beware with the faster charge perk is the most spectacularly broken weapon ive seen the game (its not even close)
 
caid said:
Theres a few shotguns that are one shot kills. Comedian will one shot most, just titans that take 2 really. Dead Orbit and New Monarchy shotguns both one shot.
Theres a blue shotgun that one shots in regular crucible too, think its called sidewinder?
Most / All of them have a pretty slow rate of fire and / or some other weaknesses.

You have to remember that things like handcannons will kill in 2+ shots and will fire off fast.
Shotguns basically need to be one shot or one shot and melee attack kills to compete against AR or well any of the guns really.
It taking 2/3 shots to kill anything would be absurd tbh. Someone spamming their melee attack would do as much / more damage than someone using a shotgun making it redundant.

Personally I think shotguns are balanced, think they should be buffed for pve actually.
Sniper rifles might be hard to make use of but they do their job very well to be fair.
Same with fusion rifles, they work. Light / beware with the faster charge perk is the most spectacularly broken weapon ive seen the game (its not even close)
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I've saved a few videos that demonstrate how badly OP shotguns are, that I'll try and upload later. In my last game, a guy (level 28/29 I think, edit: he was level 26!) was hiding in a corner, I (level 30) come round while he's looking the other way, shoot a full hit of my (fully upgraded) 77 Wizard, which somehow doesn't kill him, so I go in for a melee to finish him off, and in the quarter of a second it takes me to reach him, he turns, shoots and kills me in one. Nothing anybody says is going to make me think that kind of thing would happen in a balanced game.

Here's the video:



And regarding hand cannons, they are much more difficult to aim at close range/with hip fire.
 
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tom33 said:
I've saved a few videos that demonstrate how badly OP shotguns are, that I'll try and upload later. In my last game, a guy (level 28/29 I think, edit: he was level 26!) was hiding in a corner, I (level 30) come round while he's looking the other way, shoot a full hit of my (fully upgraded) 77 Wizard, which somehow doesn't kill him, so I go in for a melee to finish him off, and in the quarter of a second it takes me to reach him, he turns, shoots and kills me in one. Nothing anybody says is going to make me think that kind of thing would happen in a balanced game.

Here's the video:


And regarding hand cannons, they are much more difficult to aim at close range/with hip fire.
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They'll still kill you pretty damn fast at that range regardless. Just like the AR and Fusion Rifles do.
Shotguns need to do more damage than a melee attack, you agree with that surely?
At the moment the gap is pretty small.

The story above is interesting but the only thing notable about it was that your fusion rifle didn't kill him.
I guess a 4 lvl gap is big in the current IB but i wouldn't know haven't gotten to play it yet.

Edit:
Strange video,
Maybe not all of the FR bolts hit him?
Cant think of any other reason for that kill.
His weapon was that blue level 20 shotgun i was talking about - sidewinder.
 
tom33 said:
...so I go in for a melee to finish him off, and in the quarter of a second it takes me to reach him, he turns, shoots and kills me in one. Nothing anybody says is going to make me think that kind of thing would happen in a balanced game.
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This was the moment you gave up the advantage... like I said, point blank will one-shot you most of the time. If he can get that shot off...
 
caid said:
Edit:
Strange video,
Maybe not all of the FR bolts hit him?
Cant think of any other reason for that kill.
His weapon was that blue level 20 shotgun i was talking about - sidewinder.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right, but my point is that, if it's that difficult to get a one-hit kill with a fully upgraded legendary fusion rifle with a 4 level advantage, but a guy with the level disadvantage just has to turn and fire in panic, there is something not quite right. I think maybe in standard crucible, where level make no difference and weapons are standardized, perhaps they're balanced, but the Iron Banner really isn't. I could just about understand getting 1-shotted by shotguns if its a guy of the same level or maybe 1 lower, but otherwise it's pretty silly.

In my opinion though, one shot plus melee is the best shotguns should be though. That would be the easiest/quickest kill at close range.
 
afrocentricity said:
This was the moment you gave up the advantage... like I said, point blank will one-shot you most of the time. If he can get that shot off...
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I still have an advantage of full health vs third of a bar, and I have no other option, melee from that range is quicker than recharging my fusion rifle or switching weapons. You're saying I should have to just run away at that point, in case he shotguns me? That might be how to play best with the current balancing, but there's no way that should be how the game is played.
 
tom33 said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right, but my point is that, if it's that difficult to get a one-hit kill with a fully upgraded legendary fusion rifle with a 4 level advantage, but a guy with the level disadvantage just has to turn and fire in panic, there is something not quite right. I think maybe in standard crucible, where level make no difference and weapons are standardized, perhaps they're balanced, but the Iron Banner really isn't. I could just about understand getting 1-shotted by shotguns if its a guy of the same level or maybe 1 lower, but otherwise it's pretty silly.

In my opinion though, one shot plus melee is the best shotguns should be though. That would be the easiest/quickest kill at close range.
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Problem with this game and all games that use shot guns is that they all make shotguns up to weapons that are completely ineffective beyond ten feet.
Whereas in real life a combat shotgun at 75 yards is more viable against a man size target than trying to hit him with an assault rifle.

At close range a shotgun would blow a hole the size of a dinner plate through anything.
 
Shotguns are annoying but its Fusion Rifles that take the piss - at least with Shotguns you have to be close up to lay a hurting, with fusion rifles you can snipe with the fecking thing.
 
tom33 said:
I still have an advantage of full health vs third of a bar, and I have no other option, melee from that range is quicker than recharging my fusion rifle or switching weapons. You're saying I should have to just run away at that point, in case he shotguns me? That might be how to play best with the current balancing, but there's no way that should be how the game is played.
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No I hear ya, and there is no way to know that he has a shotgun and that he would get his shot off. I would have done the same as you and probably died... you roll the dice and see how they fall. The cheap shotgun kills stopped bugging me once I started doing it to other people :lol: ...

The way I see IB is that your Defence is affected by you level but your weapons maybe aren't so much, otherwise it would be a bit of an artificial buff right? His weapon is 300 attack and so is yours... so it should be like vanilla crucible in this respect. But defence etc... well you have more than him so you should (in theory be able to take more damage). Now I'm totally guessing this is the way it works (I'm probably wrong), but that is how it should work imo...
 
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Kaos said:
Shotguns are annoying but its Fusion Rifles that take the piss - at least with Shotguns you have to be close up to lay a hurting, with fusion rifles you can snipe with the fecking thing.
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I wanted to use Fusion rifles... I used them for a while but ended up going back to Shotguns, I like them but I kinda prefered Shotguns (especially for those panic situations like @tom33 mentioned :p)

'Oh shit!' BANG.... 'phew'... runs into corner to regen health.
 
I don't mind fusion rifle deaths so much. Maybe because I use one, but I also know that its really not easy to time the charge and aim, taking into account the fact that the bolts don't all shoot in one go.
 
Anyway, a couple of other videos from this morning's IB:
- First, me and @PlayerOne somehow failing to kill this guy.


- Then, me accidentally scaring a teammate into jumping off the map
 
@tom33 I had issues with that guy all game, he was lagging. I got his health down so many times and he didn't die.

You up for nightfall or IB again?
 
tom33 said:
I still have an advantage of full health vs third of a bar, and I have no other option, melee from that range is quicker than recharging my fusion rifle or switching weapons. You're saying I should have to just run away at that point, in case he shotguns me? That might be how to play best with the current balancing, but there's no way that should be how the game is played.
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Yeah ...
but thats not much of an advantage at that range (the extra health). You should have switched to AR and finished him off tbh.
Whatever way it should be balanced thats the way it is balanced. If that was IB then levels and power of weapons doesn't mean jack shit again.
Tbh even if it was balanced differently you should steer well clear of melee range because with lag people will often get a postmortem shotgun kill.
Unless your a shotgun user you have no business being in that range of someone else ever (obviously cant avoid it always but you should be trying to).


I agree somewhat with one shot and melee attack being the minimum it should be but ...
shoulder charge one shots, melee attacks 2 shot (i think?). Things at that range hit HARD. Nerf one and you kind of need to follow suit down the line
or you just make one redundant.
And it wouldn't make much difference tbh - it'd just push shotgun users towards invective and other high rate of fire shotguns.
You might get a few milliseconds longer to react but its not going to make a drastic difference.

Pretty much everything is a bit op in crucible though. Its balanced by it being up against op stuff.

You can say its hard to use FR and it should one shot and i'd agree with a wizard but
I've got a Light / Beware that probably charges twice as fast maybe even 3 times as fast as your wizard and that one shots.
Its really not much slower than a shotgun in terms of rate of fire, i'd say its rate of fire is similar to the kind of shotguns that do one shot.
While that exists im just never going to feel bad using a shotgun - I know i can switch to that and double or triple my K/D ratio.


In the mean time i'd drop your wizard for crucible. Willing to bet a low impact, fast charge blue will still one shot in IB so why bring a slow charge FR.


The titan you couldn't kill btw is working as intended (at least in that particular case). They take less damage when using FoH
 
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tom33 said:
I don't mind fusion rifle deaths so much. Maybe because I use one, but I also know that its really not easy to time the charge and aim, taking into account the fact that the bolts don't all shoot in one go.
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Really? I found it really easy to get to grips with and most of the time don't bother. Hip firing works fine at anything less than long range.
 
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