Well I wasn’t aware he would have been turned into a DM. He was a shite CB. Defo better at DM for a West Ham level club.
Declan Rice
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Well I wasn’t aware he would have been turned into a DM. He was a shite CB. Defo better at DM for a West Ham level club.
Exactly, there's enough gas around this kid to have kept the Hindenberg in the air.
We are probably going to need to buy three CMs in the summer if Herrera and Pereira leaves. One more if Pogba does. Just to make up the numbers. Garner is not ready yet; we really dont have a player at CM at youth level that is ready to step up. I am not completely sold on Rice either, but he is young and British which means that his value will not diminish that much if he does not make it at United and we can easily move him to another midtable club if he should fail.
What separates the Keane's, Torreira's, Fernandinho's from the Darren Fletchers, Fellaini's when it comes to playing holding midfield is the natural streetwise ability to get out of tight spaces, and the football IQ to know where everyone is around you. Elite holding midfielders are also far more creative and successful when it comes to riskier forward passing.
Fletcher/Fellaini/McTominay type players will run all day for you and often can dominate far superior technical players in midfield, by not giving them an inch to breath. But they usually shine when next to a specialist holding midfielder and they usually find themselves on the bench if you're playing home to Huddersfield.
Rice and McTominay are a different type of player with different skill-sets.
We also need consider balanced in our team. Right now we have neither deep playmaker midfield and ball playing centre back. Not a single person in XI can play the ball from the back. Having one of this is very important, we don’t wanna see a player in deeper position or the back who just pass sideway ineffective going forward or even whopping the ball to up front and end up giving the ball to the opposition defenders.
Rice is more of a destroyer than a playmaker. Getting Rice means we must 100% sign a ball playing centre back not just someone who is comfortable with the ball but a centre back who can distribute the ball like Maguire or De Ligt for example or we might even need two ball playing since we can’t just rely on one only.
Rice is more of a destroyer than a playmaker. Getting Rice means we must 100% sign a ball playing centre back not just someone who is comfortable with the ball but a centre back who can distribute the ball like Maguire or De Ligt for example or we might even need two ball playing since we can’t just rely on one only.
Adding another creative midfielder next to Pogba should ease a bit of the burden.
We currently have only Pogba capable of breaking lines with his passing. Another player next to Pogba, along with the ball playing CB you mention should see us move quicker through the different section of the pitch.
Creative can also come from the wing like wingers & attacking full back not just midfield. Which something we need to sort it out but what we must have is someone who can distribute the ball from the back.
In my honest opinion we should play 4231 with Pogba plays in a 10 role. Not 433. Pogba played in midfield 3 in Juventus was with 3 top and world class centre back behind him alongside maestro Pirlo. He can do defensive job and sometimes works hard running back to help defense but he’s inconsistent and he tends to take on player in dangerous position which risky. He shouldn’t be anywhere near the deeper role if we are playing 2 pair of centre backs. It worked with France but we shouldn’t compare consistency level between international & club football competition.
If we end up with signing Rice then we need to make sure we have at least two more players to be ball player who can distribute the ball from the back. Either 1 deep midfield playmaker and 1 ball playing or 2 ball playing with two destroyer like Rice & McT or Herrera in front of them.
Ole wants his team to be amongst the hardest working teams in the league. It does look like his style is very similar to how Klopp wants his team to play. Klopp at Dortmund had Sven Bender as the DM who was limited as a footballer but fit Klopp's style like a glove. Currently Klopp has Wijnaldum who isn't exactly Pirlo or even Fernandinho when it comes to passing, but he fits into the system Klopp wants to instill into his team. Both Bender and Wijnaldum were/are key cogs in Klopp's team.
Rice is a player with a similar profile albeit still very young. But to me it does look like Ole wants to replicate what Klopp has done at Dortmund and Liverpool and sign a player like Rice who would be better than say someone like Neves who is slow/immobile and wouldn't be as good as Rice in a team that played a heavy pressing game.
Rice is a player with a similar profile albeit still very young. But to me it does look like Ole wants to replicate what Klopp has done at Dortmund and Liverpool and sign a player like Rice who would be better than say someone like Neves who is slow/immobile and wouldn't be as good as Rice in a team that played a heavy pressing game.
Rice is no where as good as Bender or Genie
Maybe not now, but where were Bender and Wijnaldum at 19?
Yeah, that's the problem though, right ? We need someone who can come right in and take over that midfield. Not exactly after 5 years.
I am all for Rice provided we get someone who can do the job right away.
It does look like we're gonna build for the longterm so someone like Rice would be a good start for that process.
Take out the fact I think Rice is another ludicrously over-gassed English player, is this midfield still going to include Pogba? Because Rice coming in to me requires a playmaker to play alongside him and either Pogba or another #10, as he offers nothing on the ball, truth is you could probably just buy Ndidi cheaper if you just want a limited clogger in there. I think Klopp is trying to evolve that Liverpool midfield as he's got a budget he never had at Dortmund. He's brought in Fabinho to offer some passing from the base and he brought in Keita to add to the creative end, but he's struggled to settle. Wijnaldum is a weird one, he was a goal scoring attacking midfielder for PSV who has become this generic workhorse in the PL. Personally I'd rather look at City's midfield blueprint than Liverpool's.
I agree on this. We will need two or three CMs in this summer depending on what happens with Herrera and Pogba. I expect Pereira to leave as well. Rice is a good option as a squad player with potential. But he really needs to be complemented with an experienced CM as well. Ruben Neves is kind of that after two seasons in the PL now. Rice, Neves and I would take look at Javi Martinez to upgrade Matic and make the transition to youth plausible.
Reads the game so well and he's only 20 playing in the position for his first season. He's the type of player Spurs would buy then he'd be great there and we'd then wonder why we didn't buy him.
On the ball I think he can develop, he's certainly not bad just plays it simple. As he grows don't see why he couldn't add more forward passes that break the lines. He would also give us an option at centre back. And by all accounts he's a very hardworking kid and bloody hell do we need more of those characters in the dressing room.
Sign him up Ole.
On the ball I think he can develop, he's certainly not bad just plays it simple. As he grows don't see why he couldn't add more forward passes that break the lines. He would also give us an option at centre back. And by all accounts he's a very hardworking kid and bloody hell do we need more of those characters in the dressing room.
Sign him up Ole.
I don't think this midfield will include Pogba sadly. He will join Madrid and I personally don't blame him.
I think we'll go back to a double pivot with hopefully someone like Felix as the #10. Rodri alongside Rice would be ideal.
I haven't seen him play much so I don't have much of an opinion, but some of the things i've seen you write in this thread remind me of what was said about Carrick before he signed for United, except Carrick was always considered a good passer. He looked impressive against United at OT recently but nothing extraordinary, they played well as a unit. The hype machine behind Rodwell and Barkley was nauseating.
In theory Rice and Fred would make a good double pivot with Pogba floating around behind a front three. I would not hate on that.
Fred and Rice would be a terrible midfield two. If Fred doesnt improve, we are in trouble, because Rice currently is a 19 year old talent, which is fine but inconsistency is on the cards. I think we can do better and should to be hobest
I dont disagree and as I stated in my post we need at least one experienced CM in, even if Matic stays. Long-term though Rice and Fred could play together. Rice reminds me a lot of Taras Stepanenko who carried Fred defensively at Shakhtar. It would mean adopting a much more dynamic and high--pressing game than what we are doing now though.
This is what I see to; right now Fred finds himself almost as the deepest lying playmaker & we need someone like Rice or Stepanenko to let the midfielders work both attacking ly and defensively higher up the pitch.
Whether this is Fred in midfield or not.-the ball winning midfielder needs to be there to set of any counter attacks.
Imagine actually considering Rice when Neves is RIGHT THERE.
You obviously haven't seen much of Neves if you think his performances warrant a move to a bigger club.
I would be very happy with Rice. The first time I saw him play in the defensive midfield role I was impressed and that hasn’t changed. He has the work ethic and leader mentality, breaks up loads of attacks, can run with the ball and is a decent passer.
Him and someone like felix or Fernandes further forward would more than make up for losing pogba in my opinion.
De Ligt or Koulibaly behind him then to add more passing ability.
Him and someone like felix or Fernandes further forward would more than make up for losing pogba in my opinion.
De Ligt or Koulibaly behind him then to add more passing ability.
Does Rice warrant one? Neves is Wolves best player, he's suffered from bad form this season but is getting back to his best. He's certainly too good for them
Rice I haven't mentioned as warranting a move to a bigger club.
Neves isn't close to being the best player at Wolves. Moutinho, Jiminez and Coady have been better. You can go to any Wolves forum and get that confirmed. He's too slow/immobile from what i've seen and doesn't fit in to the style that Ole will want to implement.
@Loublaze
This is a poll on the Wolves forum for their player of the year and the only player not to get a single vote upto now is? Yes you guessed it, none other than Ruben Neves. Not even 1 vote upto now. Moutinho and Jimenez running away with it with Coady in 3rd.
https://www.wolvesforum.co.uk/showthread.php?35326-TWF-Player-of-the-Season
Thankfully our scouts aren't as bad as some make out on here.
This is a poll on the Wolves forum for their player of the year and the only player not to get a single vote upto now is? Yes you guessed it, none other than Ruben Neves. Not even 1 vote upto now. Moutinho and Jimenez running away with it with Coady in 3rd.
https://www.wolvesforum.co.uk/showthread.php?35326-TWF-Player-of-the-Season
Thankfully our scouts aren't as bad as some make out on here.
Funny you say that because I was reading a Wolves forum the other day about him, its where I read about his dip in form after the birth of his second child (apparently it happened after the birth of his first as well). You're right about the mobility part, its been mentioned quite a bit. A lot of fans consider him their crown jewel though, they're many different opinions of course but he's not much of a polarizing figure, he's definitely among the huge fan favorites. A few posts from Molineux mix, recent may I add, all from this year let alone this season:
I’ve watched Wolves for around 60 years and am really struggling to think of a better Wolves mid field player during that time (although I’ve no memory of Peter Broadbent). The only one that comes close, in my eyes, is Kenny Hibbitt albeit mainly because of his goal scoring potential. Am I wrong?!
His vision and range of passing, and shooting is exceptional.
His effort and tackling is always there.
Mobility is average. I adore him, he's still developing and evolving.
Best player I've seen in a Wolves kit. Scorer of best goal ever at Molineux too, plus several others.
The best midfielder I've ever seen in a Wolves shirt, until we signed Moutinho, now I can't decide who is the best?
Yes Neves is definitely up there with the best midfielders we have had. Great to see people have also mentioned Peter Broadbent and Kenny Hibbitt who both deserve credit. As a pair Neves and Moutinho will take some beating.
Neves continues to develop and adapt his game as required in this Wolves side, a players player as well as having supreme gifts, at 24 he will be absolute world class
He has some limitations in terms of pace and mobility as mentioned but his passing ability is the best I've ever seen. It's not just the accuracy, or his vision where he sees a ball before anybody in the crowd, it's also the way he chooses the perfect type of ball. Whether it's a pacy daisy cutter or a lofted ball with loads of back spin, 9 times out of 10, it's perfect.
He is just absolutely class at kicking a football.
Just because he doesn't deserve player of the year doesn't mean he's not very highly regarded. He hasn't had a great season and like I said his form took a dip in late 2018. Im not saying United should buy him btw. Interesting to know you think our scouts shouldn't consider players who weren't considered player of the year by supporters of the clubs they play for
.That is for what he did in the championship last season..
That thread was started in January 2019
https://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/index.php?threads/how-good-is-neves.209239/
He might be highly regarded, but that doesn't mean he's good enough to play for us from the evidence at hand in the EPL. He was very good in the Championship though no doubt.Just because he doesn't deserve player of the year doesn't mean he's not very highly regarded. He hasn't had a great season and like I said his form took a dip in late 2018. Im not saying United should buy him btw. Interesting to know you think our scouts shouldn't consider players who weren't considered player of the year by their fans
Hey, I did state Im not saying United should buy him, just saying he's very highly regarded and considered one of the best players they've ever had by a lot of their supporters.
It was, but Wolves fan were waxing lyrical about him for 6 months after his performances in the championship.
Having said that, I hope he stays at Wolves and shows his potential next sesson.
Ok my bad mate..
I could see us going back to the double pivot but I don't think having two huge units in there side by side would be a good fit personally, it's like with these forwards we need to find pieces that compliment each other rather than serving similar functions. I don't want Rice period, but if wee got him I'd look to pair him with a more nimble, quicker style of playmaker, someone like Aouar from Lyon.
I don't think Fred's passing is good enough for that to work, we need someone at the base to feed the ball uo to Pogba or a #10 if he's sold, Fred is very erratic on the ball, not a playmaker. To me in a double pivot he needs the playmaker with him.
Really? That's nuts after 18 months.
I always find this strange with Carrick that apparently people on here didn’t rate him before we signed him. I wasn’t a member on here at the time but everyone I knew thought Carrick was brilliant. I remember being so excited when we signed him as arsenal had been heavily linked too.
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Are the likes of Declan Rice, Wan Bissaka and Sancho the kinds of players we really need? Less than a playing season for each of them and commanding huge transfer fees. None of them proven at the highest level. Are they really much better than the youngsters we have at the club already. This kind of talk along with Carrick as assistant, Phelan as DoF and Fletcher returning in a development role does not fill me with confidence. All of them trying to learn on the job, while City go out and recruit the best. I despair.
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