I'm wary do these limited players. Like Schneiderlin. At some point we have to start valuing technical quality first. City do and they're flying out of sight while we focus on grit and hard work.
Declan Rice
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Completing 86% of sideways and backwards passes isn't that impressive, Fernandinho's passing game is far more expansive.
While that's true, we also heard lots of Jack Rodwell at the age of 20.Yes 33 year old Fernandinho is better than 20 year old Declan Rice. Thats very surprising given Fernandinho is probably the best CM in the league.
Which midfielder at 20 was better than Fernandinho is now?
So its an obvious and pointless comparison. Fernandinho was playing for Fred's former club in the Ukraine until he was like 27 years old. You'd never heard of him at 20
Okay so we've got Rice and Fernandinho. Give me 2 more DMs that will pass the ball forward more than Rice please
Yes 33 year old Fernandinho is better than 20 year old Declan Rice. Thats very surprising given Fernandinho is probably the best CM in the league.
Which midfielder at 20 was better than Fernandinho is now?
So its an obvious and pointless comparison. Fernandinho was playing for Fred's former club in the Ukraine until he was like 27 years old. You'd never heard of him at 20
I’ve been following Fernandinho since his under 14 days tbf.
I’m not the one that made the silly comparison.
It was a bizarre response since someone else made the initial ridiculous comparison. Anyhow, for me, the likes of Schneiderlin looked flights above Rice and as you alluded to, look how that turned out. This place really is desperate these days otherwise no one would be discussing such a bang average player.
Not from me :P I always said he was overrated. He was rated more for on the ball stuff than defending, which is the opposite of Rice.
It really is the English hype at play. When you consider a player like Ndidi who is a similar profile of player in both skill set and age has 0 clamour about him but everyone wants Rice. Neither are good enough though.
Buy a very good CB who is able to organise a back 4 and the urgency for a DM diminishes.
United need to add creativity to the team all over the place so buying an expensive somewhat in experienced English CM seems a bit silly.
Surely between Fred and McTom they can help out the back four.
United need to add creativity to the team all over the place so buying an expensive somewhat in experienced English CM seems a bit silly.
Surely between Fred and McTom they can help out the back four.
His teammate Michael Antonio says Rice reminds him of Claud Makelele and N'Golo Kante and I think that's the level he'll be at soon. West Ham chairman Gold keeps saying Rice is a future captain.
He's a natural leader, the type we sorely need. He reads the game unbelievably well for a player who has played most of this campaign as a 19 year old. He rarely loses the ball yet is excellent at recovering it. Puts himself about and doesn't give you an inch. He has the pace that Matic lacks, and is very comfortable on the ball compared to McTominay.
McTominay doesn't have the discipline, ball control, leadership qualities, vision that a top top defensive midfielder needs to have, even though McTominay will be the first name on the team sheet playing next to Rice in certain games where the opposition will have most of the ball.
But a Garner/Rice combo in a few years could be like a Carrick/Keane combo... With McT being the Fletcher to come in for certain games.
He's a natural leader, the type we sorely need. He reads the game unbelievably well for a player who has played most of this campaign as a 19 year old. He rarely loses the ball yet is excellent at recovering it. Puts himself about and doesn't give you an inch. He has the pace that Matic lacks, and is very comfortable on the ball compared to McTominay.
McTominay doesn't have the discipline, ball control, leadership qualities, vision that a top top defensive midfielder needs to have, even though McTominay will be the first name on the team sheet playing next to Rice in certain games where the opposition will have most of the ball.
But a Garner/Rice combo in a few years could be like a Carrick/Keane combo... With McT being the Fletcher to come in for certain games.
2 players doing the same job as 1 Ander.
His long passing is better than Fernandinho.
Rice has 3.0 accurate long passes and 1.4 inaccurate long passes per 90 miutes.
Fernandinhohas 3.0 accurate long passes and 2.1 inaccurate long passes per 90 miutes.
Rice has 3.0 accurate long passes and 1.4 inaccurate long passes per 90 miutes.
Fernandinhohas 3.0 accurate long passes and 2.1 inaccurate long passes per 90 miutes.
Well it isn’t.
He'll be expensive so I don't see how he's a good alternative. For the sort of money they are going to want we should expect to get someone who'll walk into our first 11 and add quality that can compete at any level. He most definitely isn't that and isn't likely to be that anytime soon.
No the hell it isn’t.
You can't mention him in the same sentence as those two, you just cant.
I just did
The advantage those two had was playing regularly and learning the game while also being exposed to European football.
You may think it has been easy and they’ve dominated but Ajax have been battered at times but the coaches kept faith.
We seem to downplay the ability of our own British players simply because we mistakenly think that the best technical players reside in Europe. The truth is that many European players have adopted the traditional British values of running,closing down and tackling and added it to their games. It’s just now we look at good young players in England and undervalue them.
It’s a mistake
Didn't Arsenal go down that route a few years ago?
Maybe you think there's nothing wrong with the passing of a player who can only find the nearest man but I don't. City have a vastly different team to ours. We are not going to be building a side like that. Mind you they've played great football with a Gundogan, Silva, Silva midfield(like the second half yesterday) which completely negated our pressing.
I agree you that we need technical players but DM is a position I believe which requires a bit of physicality and grit.
Like he did a great job tracking Hazard a few weeks ago.
You can have both. City didn't compromise on their vision. Their main DM is Fernandinho, one of the most press resistant DMs around. Heck even their backup was Gundogan who has excellent natural technical qualities. That's sticking to your guns.
And all it takes is 1 special player and 10 others to play around it, with 1 certain manager coaching them
Well, when we sign that 1 special DM, 10 others that can play around it and Guardiola as manager then yes, we need to have the same as City
Well you shouldn't.I just did
The advantage those two had was playing regularly and learning the game while also being exposed to European football.
You may think it has been easy and they’ve dominated but Ajax have been battered at times but the coaches kept faith.
We seem to downplay the ability of our own British players simply because we mistakenly think that the best technical players reside in Europe. The truth is that many European players have adopted the traditional British values of running,closing down and tackling and added it to their games. It’s just now we look at good young players in England and undervalue them.
It’s a mistake
Personally I care nothing for a players nationality. Quality is quality, who cares where it comes from. The advantage those two have is being way more talented than him.
I've silently agreed with all you've written in this thread until this part, just not true.
In your opinion and your entitled to it.
We aren’t getting De Ligt because we’re hopeless at spotting talent
I'm amazed in a world that has Ndombele and Neves we are looking to settle for Rice and some think it's a good idea.
Rice is much better than Rodwell ever was. Rodwell was never "good" the only thing really impressive about him was that he got into Everton's first team at a young age once there though he made very little improvements.
People are happy for us to waste £50m on him, jesus wept 
I think he's a good profile for us. 20 year old already performing well in midfield in the PL is quite rare. It's a position we need and apparently he can drop into CB too, which is very handy.
He seems like a leader too, from what I've seen. We certainly need more of those.
He seems like a leader too, from what I've seen. We certainly need more of those.
Do we not have McTominay for this role?
Or is it always greener grass elsewhere?
Or is it always greener grass elsewhere?
You’re believing what you want to believe, Rodwell was literally this highly rated and he turned out to be wank. Rice is nowhere near good enough despite what some are so desperate to believe. I would love if Liverpool or City signed him to stop this ridiculous fawning.
Oh, here’s the old Rodwell thread, enjoy. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jack-rodwell-sold-to-city.255390/
Based on less than a season in the first team?
And Rodwell was massively rated, hence England involvement, and going to City.
Unfortunately that part and the injuries, plus a criminal lack of drive ruined him.
I like him and wouldn't mind at all if we signed him.
Mind you I thought Rodwell was going to be great as well so ignore me.
Mind you I thought Rodwell was going to be great as well so ignore me.
What I love is how people pretend it was so different with Rodwell etc. Look at the thread I just posted, the first page is literally a carbon copy of this; “future United player” “huge talent” etc. Everytime one of these flavor of the months appear people always try say they’re so different to the flavor of the month from yesteryear.
I think our rivals will piss themselves laughing if we spend all summer perusing Rice and end up spending a huge chunk of our transfer budget on him. Then watch his so called fans on here that claim to watch him every week, absolutely decimate him when then realise he’s actually really limited and nothing like Carrick etc.
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is he good enough - he looks mobile, strong and a good tackler but 50/60 million for him? He doesn't look in the same league as Kante for me and a French Declan Rice would probably be 20m
players like Rice, Harry Maguire and others at level really remind me of Liverpool 93/94 when their last league winning team were retiring or being sold off. They were replacing top stars like Ian Rush, Ray Houghton and Staunton with Ronnie Rosenthal, Paul Stewart and Julian Dicks...... 2nd rate players who had done ok but would never reach the top
We need Roy Keane's not Jamie Redknapps
players like Rice, Harry Maguire and others at level really remind me of Liverpool 93/94 when their last league winning team were retiring or being sold off. They were replacing top stars like Ian Rush, Ray Houghton and Staunton with Ronnie Rosenthal, Paul Stewart and Julian Dicks...... 2nd rate players who had done ok but would never reach the top
We need Roy Keane's not Jamie Redknapps
I dont think he is top notch quality, but we are playing with Fred, Pereira and Matic. Herrera is leaving too.
At least this guy can recover the ball.
At least this guy can recover the ball.
What we have isn’t good enough and for me, Herrera is far better. What we need are upgrades not meh replacements.
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