Declan Rice

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Judas said:
He's playing within himself for England, feel like Southgate is limiting him a bit. Still has been massively key to our success so far.

Although he's not worth what West Ham would want for him.
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Limiting him in what way? Isn't this basically what he does for West Ham - or is there something extra to see when he pulls on that shirt? I'm not necessarily doubting as who wants to sit around watching West Ham, I am genuinely curious if there is more to him than meets the eye as that must be a dozen times I've seen him play in this lukewarm style on the ball, yet being defensively imperious.

I was of the impression that this is basically what he excels in, and that Soucek is the more likely to run ahead. So much so that they were on about converting him to a CB at one point, which would have been bizarre if he was anything other than a very defensive player. Perhaps this was just a fanciful notion of theirs, however.
 
Fortitude said:
I think that if Rice was quoted at £30m-£45m, the critique of him would not be the same. As he's got some astronomical pricetag, everything he does is assessed through that lens, and he's absolutely miles off a valuation like that. £80m on a defensive midfielder should get you a Verratti calibre player, which Rice simply hasn't got it in him to be.

I kind of feel for him because he's dogged, dependable and works as hard as he possibly can for his team, but not much of that matters when he's been scrutinised as a player in tier he cannot be considered in as everything he doesn't do is examined to the Nth degree whilst a lot of the good things he does get downplayed somewhat.

Having said that, for the kind of money he'd cost, he's very underwhelming indeed.
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I'd say it would still be the same. £35-40m is still a lot of money for someone to bring in as squad choice, let alone be a starting central midfield player. Look at VDB for example, who although is a different profile of player is arguably more proven and has 'more' ability. Even at that price he's competing against Fred in terms of expectations and although it's unfair in terms of age/experience, at this stage it wouldn't be a favourable comparison at all.
 
Abraxas said:
Limiting him in what way? Isn't this basically what he does for West Ham - or is there something extra to see when he pulls on that shirt? I'm not necessarily doubting as who wants to sit around watching West Ham, I am genuinely curious if there is more to him than meets the eye as that must be a dozen times I've seen him play in this lukewarm style on the ball, yet being defensively imperious.

I was of the impression that this is basically what he excels in, and that Soucek is the more likely to run ahead. So much so that they were on about converting him to a CB at one point, which would have been bizarre if he was anything other than a very defensive player. Perhaps this was just a fanciful notion of theirs, however.
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His passing is more expansive with West Ham, and not just as Gattuso lite with England.
 
Isotope said:
His passing is more expansive with West Ham, and not just as Gattuso lite with England.
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Forget it mate Collective wisdom of CAF has already adjudged Rice to be fairly limited player and his exploits with England has done nothing to dispel that notion , it would take him to move to a top Club and play under progressive manager where he would develop into excellent player because he has all fundamental tools to become one, only then CAF would realise that we missed out on Excellent English talent.
 
gajender said:
Forget it mate Collective wisdom of CAF has already adjudged Rice to be fairly limited player and his exploits with England has done nothing to dispel that notion , it would take him to move to a top Club and play under progressive manager where he would develop into excellent player because he has all fundamental tools to become one, only then CAF would realise that we missed out on Excellent English talent.
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Obviously not at the price quoted, but lots of Caf posters also don't mind him at United.
 
The guy just cuts out attacking lanes before the attack happens.

Croatia, Czech, Scotland and Germany could hardly run through the Centre of our midfield because Rice was there already. It led to passes over the top or pushed out wide

I hardly seen a pure top chance created vs this England team this tournament.
 
Isotope said:
Obviously not at the price quoted, but lots of Caf posters also don't mind him at United.
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I think if 30 m and Lingard going other way could help us get him here we should definitely go for him ,but 90 m quoted by press for him is simply outrageous and if that's the stance of West Ham then we should steer clear .
 
gajender said:
I think if 30 m and Lingard going other way could help us get him here we should definitely go for him ,but 90 m quoted by press for him is simply outrageous and if that's the stance of West Ham then we should steer clear .
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I don't think that offer will go anywhere. But it will be a steal if it happens.
 
Isotope said:
I don't think that offer will go anywhere. But it will be a steal if it happens.
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It would be around 50 m give or take which should atleast bring West ham on the table , I wouldn't be averse to us paying even 50-60 m outright for him but I don't think that would be doable after Sancho and possible Center Back acquisition.
I just hope we are keeping tabs on him and if we don't bring a Defensive Midfielder this season atleast we revisit this next season depending on Rice's progress.
 
gajender said:
It would be around 50 m give or take which should atleast bring West ham on the table , I wouldn't be averse to us paying even 50-60 m outright for him but I don't think that would be doable after Sancho and possible Center Back acquisition.
I just hope we are keeping tabs on him and if we don't bring a Defensive Midfielder this season atleast we revisit this next season depending on Rice's progress.
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That's the thing though. If he progress nicely, you're talking about 80m to get him. I know our manager has a fetish to targeting the most obvious players. But United isn't capable of always buying expensive player every Summer.
 
criticalanalysis said:
I'd say it would still be the same. £35-40m is still a lot of money for someone to bring in as squad choice, let alone be a starting central midfield player. Look at VDB for example, who although is a different profile of player is arguably more proven and has 'more' ability. Even at that price he's competing against Fred in terms of expectations and although it's unfair in terms of age/experience, at this stage it wouldn't be a favourable comparison at all.
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Squad choice? Are you for real? He is miles and miles better than Fred at what he does.
 
Ok m sorry but based on his England performances he’s no better than mcfred for me, too much of coward to play a forward pass.
 
Gotta say, after last nights performance my desire for us to sign Rice has grown. Good performance, he doesn’t mind being the invisible man doing the work for those around him to benefit from. Strong, and not as slow as some make out.

He’s exactly what we need IMO. Him sitting in front of AWB, Varane, Maguire and Shaw would be brill. Alongside Pogba (if he stays) and Bruno that’s a decent midfield.
 
Bebestation said:
The guy just cuts out attacking lanes before the attack happens.

Croatia, Czech, Scotland and Germany could hardly run through the Centre of our midfield because Rice was there already. It led to passes over the top or pushed out wide

I hardly seen a pure top chance created vs this England team this tournament.
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He was all over the place at the beginning and they ran straight through him for the huge Werner chance. He could also have been sent off for denying them a clear goalscoring chance early on. I admit I might be too harsh on him, but watching him play is so underwhelming. Especially for England where his signature move is making himself available for a pass, receives a pass, does a backpass then points to where his teammates should pass next. His passing range seems so limited.

In comparison Carrick got a lot of stick for doing backpasses, but he had 10x the passing range of Rice. It would be an extremely underwhelming signing and borderline insanity at the prices quoted.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
He was all over the place at the beginning and they ran straight through him for the huge Werner chance. I admit I might be too harsh on him, but watching him play is so underwhelming. Especially for England where his signature move is making himself available for a pass, receives a pass, does a backpass then points to where his teammates should pass next. His passing range seems so limited.

In comparison Carrick got a lot of stick for doing backpasses, but he had 10x the passing range of Rice. It would be an extremely underwhelming signing.
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If Walker wasn't the the ridiculous speed he is, he would have been sent off in within 8 mins as well.
 
Problem with Rice is when he's told to just be that invisible defensive man, without a lot of the passing responsibilities too many people on here simply don't see what he brings. That German midfield is being spoken about like its Luton Town's. They couldn't achieve anything yesterday, Rice was a big reason why.
 
Rice did brilliant against the Germans. Held the midfield together nullified opposition's penetrative passing. Had France had him instead of Kante, the Swiss would have never reached the quarters.
 
criticalanalysis said:
I'd say it would still be the same. £35-40m is still a lot of money for someone to bring in as squad choice, let alone be a starting central midfield player. Look at VDB for example, who although is a different profile of player is arguably more proven and has 'more' ability. Even at that price he's competing against Fred in terms of expectations and although it's unfair in terms of age/experience, at this stage it wouldn't be a favourable comparison at all.
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You reckon? The quoted price range would be excellent value for Rice and he'd be given a lot more leniency than he currently is, where everything he does is not constructively analysed. At the moment, everything is deconstructive - he's not worth it because x, y or z he does isn't in that class - and almost underplaying his positives.

I think VDB has been adjudged as a bad fit who has been poorly utilised from the outset - his value usually mentioned because people believe we could've put that money towards a better player, or at least a player who we needed.

But yeah, Rice for £80m, I'd doubt there's any takers. Rice at £40m would have a host of top clubs in for him, imo.
 
Rice is a very good footballer- I am more convinced by him than Grealish
 
Isotope said:
His passing is more expansive with West Ham, and not just as Gattuso lite with England.
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This would be interesting if so.

It doesn't make a lot of sense though. There have been times I have been tearing my hair out when Rice has turned down very easy but attacking passes only to dilly dally and go sideways or backwards. That doesn't add up no matter what the instructions are, if you see a productive pass that isn't risky surely it is played. Maybe it's a confidence thing, he is more of the main man at West Ham.
 
Abraxas said:
This would be interesting if so.

It doesn't make a lot of sense though. There have been times I have been tearing my hair out when Rice has turned down very easy but attacking passes only to dilly dally and go sideways or backwards. That doesn't add up no matter what the instructions are, if you see a productive pass that isn't risky surely it is played. Maybe it's a confidence thing, he is more of the main man at West Ham.
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He looks terrified of making mistakes for England to me, which would explain it somewhat.
 
Volumiza said:
Gotta say, after last nights performance my desire for us to sign Rice has grown. Good performance, he doesn’t mind being the invisible man doing the work for those around him to benefit from. Strong, and not as slow as some make out.

He’s exactly what we need IMO. Him sitting in front of AWB, Varane, Maguire and Shaw would be brill. Alongside Pogba (if he stays) and Bruno that’s a decent midfield.
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All fun and games when we are playing the top 6 sides or a big cl teams . When we play the rest of the teams in the league he will leave many frustrated. He is basically the cdm version of AWB at full back. Now there is talk of us maybe looking for a more attacking rb to help us against the park the bus teams.
 
lysglimt said:
Rice is a very good footballer- I am more convinced by him than Grealish
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Wow!

I would say De Bruyn, Grealish, Bruno and Pogba are the best in playing the number 10 role in the PL.

I personally think Rice is a very limited footballer and massively overhyped. If I had to choose between Rice and Kalvin Phillips I'd go with Kalvin. Better still, stick with McTominay over both.
 
What's the cafs obsession with limited footballers? It was the same with the AWB links that swore up and down that his poor balling abilities were over blown. The same happened again with Fred and it was said you can't judge a footballer from YouTube videos yet I could see the guy chase his 1st touch in those videos. There was also Matteo Darmian. If someone looks like a limited footballer it's because he is a limited footballer. Don't get me wrong I would love to have AWB and Rice in most big games which is about 18-20 games a season out of a possible 60. If we went after rice we could end up paying a possible 140m for both of them. The rest of the time you would want an attacking rb and a dm who can get the ball up the field quicker. Chelsea have one, man city have one and Liverpool have one why would we look for a limited one.

Feck I forgot schniderlin another limited footballer endorsed by the caf pre transfer
 
keithsingleton said:
Now I'm very confused :confused:
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Ok - let me clearify. Grealish is perhaps the best player at keeping the ball and going past players - but he also has a tendency to pass the ball either too late or not at all. For Grealish to work, he either needs to play in a system which accommodates his style of football or he needs to change the way he plays football. Basically he slows the game down but constantly going past players (or getting fouled) - rather than passing the ball.

In some clubs Grealish would be perfect - for us where we are exceptionally good at counter-attacking, I am not convinced Grealish would be perfect.
 
Bebestation said:
The guy just cuts out attacking lanes before the attack happens.

Croatia, Czech, Scotland and Germany could hardly run through the Centre of our midfield because Rice was there already. It led to passes over the top or pushed out wide

I hardly seen a pure top chance created vs this England team this tournament.
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Germany had two guilt edge one and ones yesterday alone. One in each half. Havertz and Muller.

Scotland had quite a few good chances. More than we had in that game.
 
It's swings and roundabouts, he was buried after the last couple of games and he's Rijkaard today. :lol: the bottom line is that whatever you think of him West Ham are pricing him out of any move, he's going to have to kick up a fuss to get out of there any time soon.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Germany had two guilt edge one and ones yesterday alone. One in each half. Havertz and Muller.

Scotland had quite a few good chances. More than we had in that game.
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Muller was a chance created by an interception of a Sterling miss pass backwards.


Its a very hard thing to see what Rice gives to England - I admit it too. However, I personally think that a midfield of no Rice - ie a Henderson and Phillips midfield partnership would have the whole team all over the place, chances created centrally from players like Modric when we played Croatia or the German midfielders like Kroos.


Again, people say that we play with 10 men when Rice is on the pitch - but this is talking in a very attacking mindset; he gives me a feeling of 12 men when it comes to a defensive shape, central area blockage, the stopping of CB’s having to react to wider or central attacks because Rice has covered that area or blocked the most attacking area.


Again, I also do watch his England Matches and wonder if he is doing enough - yet I also value what he brings to the team.

People value Phillips more easily because he is getting further up the pitch and making passes - the reason that is happening in a balanced way is what I value in Rice.
 
The only way I see Rice being a viable option for us is if Ole changes the way he sets up, to play more of a 4-3-3 with Rice doing all the dirty work behind Bruno and Pogba/Another progressive midfielder.

In the system we currently favor, with a double pivot, where there is more creative responsibility on him, I feel like he will be made to look worse than he is, since that doesn’t seem to be a strength of his.
 
Devil may care said:
It's swings and roundabouts, he was buried after the last couple of games and he's Rijkaard today. :lol: the bottom line is that whatever you think of him West Ham are pricing him out of any move, he's going to have to kick up a fuss to get out of there any time soon.
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Nailed on for Chelsea
 
Sultan said:
Wow!

I would say De Bruyn, Grealish, Bruno and Pogba are the best in playing the number 10 role in the PL.

I personally think Rice is a very limited footballer and massively overhyped. If I had to choose between Rice and Kalvin Phillips I'd go with Kalvin. Better still, stick with McTominay over both.
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Overhyped due to his nationality, which is par of the course. Zakaria or Ndidi would be much better for us, and we could revert to 1 specialist holding midfielder
 
I feel like a lot of people are judging him now based on his England performances where he’s clearly been told to stop attacks and give the ball to someone else. That’s your job.
has anyone actually watched much of him at West Ham or is it just based on the international version that we are seeing, which is 2 different players?
His price tag is prohibitive though. I wonder how many would go for him if he was 50m for example
 
People shouldn’t judge him based on his role for England. Southgate, rightly or wrongly, has gone into this tournament super cautious and Rice has been far more the simple anchorman than he is for West Ham.
 
red4ever 79 said:
Overhyped due to his nationality, which is par of the course. Zakaria or Ndidi would be much better for us, and we could revert to 1 specialist holding midfielder
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Out of interest, why doesn't he start from Switzerland?
 
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