DDG - it needs to be said

Two problems exposed again tonight. 1, the Keeper. Yes De Gea was excellent over the years but has been average to poor for the last few seasons and tonight very very poor. And 2, Lindelof/Maguire partnership. I have said many times on many different platforms that United needed to bring in a new CB, but after tonight I am starting to think we need two. Maguire is just not dominant in the air or on the ground and when he plays with Lindelof you see both Wan Bisaka and Shaw coming inside as if they don't trust them either as neither has pace and quick attackers unsettle them easily. Maguire is NOT a leader on the pitch, he is NOT dominant or in control at the back We need CBs, we can't rely on Bailly to stay fit and Maguire/Lindelof does NOT work
 
Not good enough anymore. Whether you think Dean isn’t good enough or worse but DDG is 350k p/w. That is criminal, at least with Dean you probably get what you paid him for and still can develop. DDG past it, won’t get better anymore. Been 3 years since his decline with no sign of getting back to his world class.
 
M Bison said:
Don’t disagree with that at all, would be the logical move but dropping the GK after tonight is a fairly bold move from Ole.
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IMO if he doesnt change GK in summer we wont win anything. I have gone from deciding we wont win anything with Lindelof to we wont win anything with Lindelof and DdG. Your GK has to win you points. At best his mistakes and negative points balance out his saves.

And to the point of changing GK in summer, how do we know if we need to buy someone new or change to Henderson if we dont give Henderson a chance to stake his claim?

And if he doesn't drop DdG he is rewarding mediocrity and doesn't have the balls to make changes needed to win. Don't for a sec think players wont see that.
 
He needs to go.
 
De Gea is to this team what Barthez was to the club in 2001/02
 
I think we need to give Henderson a chance. I mean he came back, he’s been largely good in the games he’s played and he’s competing with De Gea, waiting for him to make mistakes. Well, he’s making them and that means he deserves a chance to prove he can be our number one, otherwise what’s the point in him being here? He’s too good to wait around to be a reserve and if that’s how we saw his role I’d have rather us have sold him in the summer and kept Romero happy
 
RORY65 said:
Not sure what we do with him now, he's on one of those textbook Ed Woodward contracts so it's going to be difficult to find a club that wants to buy the highest paid keeper in the world who won't come off his line, has poor distribution, reflexes that are slightly fading and confidence which is completely shot.
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Ozil him. The money on him is already spent. No use persisting with him and dropping points just because he's on a big contract. A competent keeper will help the entire defense be more solid.
 
I’d like to see Romero given a go ....doubt he could do worse.
 
Vidyoyo said:
I get your point. He's definitely past it when it comes to shot stopping and coming out has never been his strength. All I'm saying - to go back to my earlier point - is that he hasn't been the reason we've lost many games this year, which I think is something we should consider looking at the reactions here.

However, I get that it's a little hard to do it when you've just conceded a 96 minute equaliser where he was at fault and should have stuck out his bloody leg!
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He doesn’t need to commit howlers every week to be letting us down though. Your goalkeeper needs to actually be an asset. De Gea has not been an asset for several seasons.
 
I used to remember when he saved us points now he does nothing or just costs us points .
 
Can the people who come into the thread and still describe De Gea as a world class shot stopper or a great shot stopper remind me of the last time he made a world class save?
 
I don't want to keep harping back to Fergies era, but if Fergie was here..would De Gea still be out No.1 goalkeeper? Because to me we've kept him at least 2 years more than we should have.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Does he though? Saves you wouldn’t expect any one of the better keepers in the league to make? I would struggle to remember one. Been at least a couple of years anyway.
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Come to think of it...perhaps you’re right, scratching my head a bit now. The Ward-Prowse free kick the other night, couple at Arsenal, Villa and one against Liverpool. Not top, top saves though but decent. Ah balls. We’re doomed.
 
He's still a top goalkeeper, but he's prone to more mistakes now. Perhaps it's a concentration issue. His confidence seems fragile too, which isn't being helped by Laurel and Hardy at centre back in front of him. He's never been a brave goalkeeper.
 
Romero's our best keeper and doesn't get a look in. I'm absolutely convinced Romero would have pounced on that loose ball tonight.

De Gea is everything you don't want in a goalkeeper; he's appalling. He was crap in 2013, it's just we had RVP bailing us out game after game. The harsh reality is we're not winning another majority trophy with De Gea in net. You need a world class keeper to win major trophies and De Gea is not that. He's got to go.
 
For the money he’s on, he’s not nearly good enough. Essentially, he’s being paid for the player he once was, but isn’t any longer (although I don’t think he was ever worth the wage he’s on now).

He‘s a shot stopper, and on his day can still produce some dazzling work. That said, his cowardice and inability to command his area shows itself far too regularly, has cost the team way too many points over the last few years. The problem is compounded by the fact that he’s playing behind what may be the two slowest, most passive central defenders I can recall starting for United. It’s a recipe for disaster.
 
The most frustrating part of tonight's last goal? It wasnt a mistake by ddg, it was cowardice.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
Romero's our best keeper and doesn't get a look in. I'm absolutely convinced Romero would have pounced on that loose ball tonight.

De Gea is everything you don't want in a goalkeeper; he's appalling. He was crap in 2013, it's just we had RVP bailing us out game after game. The harsh reality is we're not winning another majority trophy with De Gea in net. You need a world class keeper to win major trophies and De Gea is not that. He's got to go.
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Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
He's still a top goalkeeper, but he's prone to more mistakes now. Perhaps it's a concentration issue. His confidence seems fragile too, which isn't being helped by Laurel and Hardy at centre back in front of him. He's never been a brave goalkeeper.
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He isnt. He has been below average for 2 and a half seasons. By that logic, Bale should still be a top player as well. The reality is, he is a below average to average PL GK these days, even stats back it up. And that is spinning it positively even.
 
M Bison said:
All fair comments and can’t disagree, I’d much prefer to see someone play who is on their way up than way down, and for the record I’m not saying we shouldn’t give Hendo a go but...

People actually are saying the above and have forgotten how Hendo performed in his last game. If he’d played tonight and made those mistakes the caf would be in uproar, writing him off (see Shoretire thread) and criticising everyone involved in his selection.
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I broadly agree. I don't actually think Henderson is as good as imagined. Touch of the Joe Hart about it, hyped up because we and most English fans want him to be something he might become but isn't yet.

The truth is, United don't have any elite players at centre back or in goal. Yet we pay the ones we have a king's ransom. So we are stuck with them cos nobody would be daft enough to offer them what we do, and the board won't sanction replacements until they're gone. Vicious, downward, cycle.
 
Vidyoyo said:
I get your point. He's definitely past it when it comes to shot stopping and coming out has never been his strength. All I'm saying - to go back to my earlier point - is that he hasn't been the reason we've lost many games this year, which I think is something we should consider looking at the reactions here.

However, I get that it's a little hard to do it when you've just conceded a 96 minute equaliser where he was at fault and should have stuck out his bloody leg!
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Which is quite worrying considering that's all he ever had. Without it, he's a very average keeper. As we're now seeing.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
I'm not sure about that. IMHO, the centre-backs are a bigger problem than De Gea. At his best De Gea is brilliant; Maguire and Lindelof will never be more than average.
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He's not been at his best for years though.

We have to stop harking back to the De Gea from 2014-2018, that's gone. We had this exact same thing with Rooney.

The centre backs aren't good enough either you're right but that doesn't absolve De Gea of blame. He's been an absolute liability for 3 seasons now, cost us game after game. He's not a good keeper anymore.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
He's still a top goalkeeper, but he's prone to more mistakes now. Perhaps it's a concentration issue. His confidence seems fragile too, which isn't being helped by Laurel and Hardy at centre back in front of him. He's never been a brave goalkeeper.
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Is he though?

I mean if you mean "good enough to play in a top league" then sure, he's a solid PL level keeper. Not like we have Jordan Pickford or Kepa between the sticks.

But top as in best in Europe level? This is the third season in a row where he definitely hasn't hit those heights.
 
Judas said:
De Gea's edgy nervous and gutless approach doesn't make our CBs better, there's a very strong possibility he makes them worse.
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This.

When the defense can't trust the keeper then the entire defense plays worse than they actually are.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just watched their first goal again. He didn’t even need to touch the ball. If he’d left it altogether we’d have been better off.
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Infuriating. It wasn't even a fecking shot, it carried no power, yet it was too hot to handle for Dave.
 
Some statistics for all the 'it woz the defence' posters who are once again hammering our CBs for being so terrible that they conceded three shots on target (arguably two if you excuse the one the GK directly causes) in a game against top six opposition.

These are the statistics for the shots on target faced by the GKs currently playing for our main rivals

GOALKEEPERSHOTS FACEDSAVEDGA% SAVES
LLORIS89672275
EDERSON44321273
ALISSON52371571
SCHMEICHEL86612571
MENDY45311469
PICKFORD70482269
DE GEA69422761

As you can all clearly see, De Gea is BY FAR the worst GK, in terms of actually saving shots (his job). That's before you even get into the fact that most, if not all, of the GKs above have other standout attributes beyond shot-stopping i.e. Schmeichel = command of area, Ederson = passing out from the back, Alisson = playing as a sweeper-keeper.

Then, I have tried to break that down into something meaningful to show you how big of an impact those numbers have, because on their own I understand it's quite hard to quantify what the difference is between 61% save rate and 71% save rate, for example.

Here is what would happen if a GK with the same percentage save rate as De Gea played for each of our rivals

IF DEA PLAYED FOR…SHOTS FACEDSAVEDGADIFF +/-
TOTTENHAM89543513
MAN CITY4427175
LIVERPOOL5232205
LEICESTER8652349
CHELSEA4527184
EVERTON7043275

As you can see, the difference is stark. Chelsea and Everton, neither of whom have good GKs, are both 4 and 5 goals better off respectively. Man City and Liverpool, despite facing a relatively small number of shots, are still five goals worse off. In the case of Man City, that is nearly a 50% increase on their TOTAL goals conceded this year.

Imagine what would happen if De Gea were in goal at Spurs or Leicester! The stats tell you those teams wouldn't even be in a top four race, having conceded 13 and 9 more goals.

See, this is the difference between the good posters (like me) and the bad ones. Many come on here bleating about stuff, mainly influenced by simple narratives pushed by sh**e pundits who don't know their arse from their elbow.

Some of us take the time to dig a bit deeper. The FACT is that United don't concede an unusual number of shots on target and we don't give away an unusual number of good chances. The FACT (sorry to get a Rafa) is that De Gea saves significantly LESS of these shots than his counterparts at our main rivals.

Again, I repeat, this is even before you consider his other major flaws as a GK, compared with the more aggressive, pro-active goalkeeping styles of players like Alisson, Ederson or Schemeichel.

The FACT is people....you can bleat about the defence all you like but football teams will always concede shots on target. No manager yet has worked out how to stop the opposition having ANY shots. No defence yet has been good enough to go an entire PL season without conceding shots on target (FACT).

Therefore, when teams inevitably DO have shots on target, like the three they had on target tonight (I repeat, one as a result of a direct goalkeeping error), it would be quite nice if the t**t between the sticks would have the good grace not to move out the way of at least one for his £350K per week.

If any of you want to seriously argue with me that our defence is poor because a top six team had three (arguably two) shots on our goal then go for it, I'm all ears....
 
He’s gone from being the first name on the team sheet to the last I want to see now. Ole needs to show some guts, drop him.
 
Rightnr said:
De Gea might not be as good as he was 3-4 years ago BUT he was fundamentally not at fault today. Having such a shaky pair of CBs affects any GK. He just becomes anxious with the chuckle brothers v2.0 ahead of him.

As for Henderson, we saw how good he was when he fecked up that goal against Sheffield earlier in the season. It's our defense as a whole that's the problem.
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That first goal conceded is so soft. What’s the point to even play a goalkeeper if that goal can’t be controlled?
 
His attitude and application is coming into to question now - time to get rid in my opinion..
 
Lentwood said:
Some statistics for all the 'it woz the defence' posters who are once again hammering our CBs for being so terrible that they conceded three shots on target (arguably two if you excuse the one the GK directly causes) in a game against top six opposition.

These are the statistics for the shots on target faced by the GKs currently playing for our main rivals

GOALKEEPERSHOTS FACEDSAVEDGA% SAVES
LLORIS89672275
EDERSON44321273
ALISSON52371571
SCHMEICHEL86612571
MENDY45311469
PICKFORD70482269
DE GEA69422761

As you can all clearly see, De Gea is BY FAR the worst GK, in terms of actually saving shots (his job). That's before you even get into the fact that most, if not all, of the GKs above have other standout attributes beyond shot-stopping i.e. Schmeichel = command of area, Ederson = passing out from the back, Alisson = playing as a sweeper-keeper.

Then, I have tried to break that down into something meaningful to show you how big of an impact those numbers have, because on their own I understand it's quite hard to quantify what the difference is between 61% save rate and 71% save rate, for example.

Here is what would happen if a GK with the same percentage save rate as De Gea played for each of our rivals

IF DEA PLAYED FOR…SHOTS FACEDSAVEDGADIFF +/-
TOTTENHAM89543513
MAN CITY4427175
LIVERPOOL5232205
LEICESTER8652349
CHELSEA4527184
EVERTON7043275

As you can see, the difference is stark. Chelsea and Everton, neither of whom have good GKs, are both 4 and 5 goals better off respectively. Man City and Liverpool, despite facing a relatively small number of shots, are still five goals worse off. In the case of Man City, that is nearly a 50% increase on their TOTAL goals conceded this year.

Imagine what would happen if De Gea were in goal at Spurs or Leicester! The stats tell you those teams wouldn't even be in a top four race, having conceded 13 and 9 more goals.

See, this is the difference between the good posters (like me) and the bad ones. Many come on here bleating about stuff, mainly influenced by simple narratives pushed by sh**e pundits who don't know their arse from their elbow.

Some of us take the time to dig a bit deeper. The FACT is that United don't concede an unusual number of shots on target and we don't give away an unusual number of good chances. The FACT (sorry to get a Rafa) is that De Gea saves significantly LESS of these shots than his counterparts at our main rivals.

Again, I repeat, this is even before you consider his other major flaws as a GK, compared with the more aggressive, pro-active goalkeeping styles of players like Alisson, Ederson or Schemeichel.

The FACT is people....you can bleat about the defence all you like but football teams will always concede shots on target. No manager yet has worked out how to stop the opposition having ANY shots. No defence yet has been good enough to go an entire PL season without conceding shots on target (FACT).

Therefore, when teams inevitably DO have shots on target, like the three they had on target tonight (I repeat, one as a result of a direct goalkeeping error), it would be quite nice if the t**t between the sticks would have the good grace not to move out the way of at least one for his £350K per week.

If any of you want to seriously argue with me that our defence is poor because a top six team had three (arguably two) shots on our goal then go for it, I'm all ears....
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Percentage of shots saved is a pretty basic way of judging tbh. A really good poster would be bringing xG stats into the thread and breaking them down for us. Must do better.
 
De Gea could have a literal wall in front of him and he'd still be so nervy and gutless, it's how he's always been. The CB's aren't the route cause of his anxiety, because he always has that, no matter whose in front of him.
 
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